I stand corrected. 1/5 of the deck being PW is sufficiantly different than the deck being 1/4 PW. That was still 25% of the top 8 playing 12+ PW and 62% of the top 8 running Jace 2.0. Flores even talked about one of the players running Jace 1.0 to foil 2.0. All in all it just seems very degenerative to me.
Just say no to Landstill. If this is your brain, then this is your brain on drugs lol. Forget Landstill, run something with less Zzzz's, try New Horizons 80)
Rules should be explicit, but people should also be decent enough to have some discretion. Obviously his deck was nowhere close to the idea of the event, that much is obvious. If I have to go Nazi on the rules I will so that this does not happen again.
Again this goes to specification. Rules should explicit. The person was right that the changelings in his deck were spirits. He wasn't bending the 'spirit' of the spirit format to play them. As someone who has felt it unfair to face Maulers and Colossi at every turn in these events I shrug. Why change it now?
Close, but no cigar. Both forms allowed changelings, but Lorwyn Standard Tribal allowed _noncreature_ changelings to count. It was possible to build a creatureless tribal deck.
I use Seton, Krosan Protector as my mono green commander, my deck uses the most annoying card ever Hall of Gemstone. I do need to update it though it hasnt been touched since Lorwyn.
As someone who has admittedly never taken part in Tribal-anything, or never having really followed it, I just wanted to say that I'm fairly shocked that changelings are allowed in those formats. I just assumed all this time that they weren't. Seems very much against the spirit of the tribal concept. Kinda kills the tiny interest I may have had in it to begin with.
"A serious question, though: is a 20-Changelings deck really legal as a whatever tribe tribal deck? Is it not needed at least one member of the supposed tribe, i.e at least one spirit in this case?
"
I have a changeling deck thats 16 different tribes : )
No he had registered early and was always ready to go I just never added him to DCI-r since i missed hsi REG. The player we were pulling back for a little time-wise was rakura in order to allow him/her to finish there deck since they did not know it was a special week. I remember this specifically because that player missed the "spirit" part and had vampires to start. He played justsin in round 1
You sure he was not the guy joining last minute? He was not ready at 13:00 AM, we started playing around 13:10-13:15 AM. Besides, I have to testify that he tried to join my game with a sideboard, and PM me about the fact only to discover/recall that tribal requires no sideboard. So probably he wasn't very familiar with the format. He thought it was pauper too, so he actually used a pauper tribal sliver/whatever deck.
My guess is: he just said to himself, "Let's join this bunch of jolly people in their nice little tournament, but hey, I don't have a spirit deck ready, let's hastily change something in my sliver deck and see what happens". Now, this latter decision is surely questionable, but the guy's intent itself probably not.
A serious question, though: is a 20-Changelings deck really legal as a whatever tribe tribal deck? Is it not needed at least one member of the supposed tribe, i.e at least one spirit in this case?
he had actually previously signed up I just missed his reg. He had signed up 8 minutes after reg opened so it wasnt a random deck quickly thrown together. So he wasn't really helping, at all. We did have a player who joined about 10 minutes before the event started but they are completely different people. This guy knew what he was doing and when asked about his deck, his response was meh, they're spirits too. His whole attitude and everything else was just condescending, and I could care less if he shows back. We have plenty of players that are regulars who i enjoy chatting with and running events for. We get new people who are awesome players, but sometimes there is a bad one in the bunch.
One more thing: Supposedly the bug that puts your Commander in the graveyard when dealt lethal damage was fixed yesterday. I played two games and the situation never came up, but just wanted to let people know.
I agree with Flipper. If you don't want changelings, state that expressly in the rules. Winning tournaments is about exploiting the meta and the system. If certain things are "frowned upon" why not expressly forbid them?
Calling people out is your prerogative, whether in the column or in the comments, but if you guys want tourney attendance to increase, you gotta think of a better way to tell people what not to play.
I have to agree that playing slivers with changlings..well not a cool move. my vote would be for random 2HG as well. Second vote for pauper. Although FFA would be fun.
A suggestion, if people are going to include changlings, then one of two things, a deck must be all changlings and no other tribes, or if a person wants to run changlings, they must run at least 20 of the tribe the deck was intended to be, then they can add changlings as a support tribe.
So let me get this right 10 mins before the event started there was a player short for parings and a person in the room said they would fill in. This person had to make their deck from scratch in a very defined format with an extra restriction, which they may not have had cards to fulfil. The choice was legal and above board and he didn’t place in the prizes yet is attacked for trying to help.
Do you think this player will ever come back and try the event again or spread the word about how good the event is? I think not even though he was playing within the rules and doing so to help the event along.
Does this encourage other readers to try the event who read this article and the comments after?
I think I might have rage-logged if I realized that I failed to submit my deck. But obviously that would be an unwise decision. Way to stick it out and play through it, man.
I had a long conversation with JustSin about changelings. Am I the only one who remembers when Lorwyn came out and there were two forms of Tribal? One that allowed changelings and one that didn't. I miss those days. I hate changelings. I think they go against the spirit of tribal. Call me a purest, but if you're using Minotaurs, then all your creature cards should say Creature - Minotaur. If you want to use the whiny argument that "there aren't enough good X creature," then you don't understand the point of tribal. Yeah, there aren't a lot of great Bears, doesn't mean I'm going to fill my deck with Changeling Titan, Game-Trail Changeling, and Chameleon Colossus. Yes, those cards are more "good" than Grizzly Bears, but they are NOT bears based on what it says right there on the card. As for the "douchiness" of that player... he got everything he deserved for showing up to a tournament that was meant to add fun and uniqueness to the format with a deck that flaunts the rules and is an insult to the other players who followed the deck building instructions. I would have called him something much less classy than a "douche." I think Shard is being very nice in using "douchiness." This reminds me of the guys we used to get at the restaurant who would come in with no pants on because the sign said "No shirt, no shoes, no service." They would say, "It didn't say we had to wear pants!" This required common sense and we shouldn't applaud people for acting like a "douche."
As for the vote, I most likely will be unable to play as usual, but I am all in favor of 2HG. That could be a ton of fun. That being said, Bingbongo mentioned FFA, which I think would be much more fun. I played in a 4 player FFA tribal game last night and it was a ton of fun.
I'm leaning towards agreeing with your disagreement! I'll admit, it's a 50/50 scenerio. Half the time, I'm singing Kiln Fiends praises winning turn 3, other times, I wish I didn't draw it (mid-late) and actually when you have it early, your opp (if good) has a full hand and a removal spell just for it.
I'm wondering now if a Green/Red or White/Red build would be even better, offering some shroud abilities to ensure it lives. Even so, building a deck around one card is risky, and would require blue to find it fast enough.
The fellow who got 2nd place last weekend had none, stating K.F.'s lack of BOOM power as a topdecker was something he didn't want.
For every turn 3 win, there is a late game draw where you just sigh and wish it was anything else. Wizards is surprisingly good at balancing things.
Thanks for the comment, like I said, I'm actually leaning towards not running these anymore, maybe just in SB for storm! (kidding) :)
It would be nice to see more screenshots of the actual game state when you are talking about situations. I find it can be difficult to keep an accurate vision of your board in my head as I read your walkthrough.
With that said, the effort is certainly appreciated and what you do is very good for the drafting community.
I stand corrected. 1/5 of the deck being PW is sufficiantly different than the deck being 1/4 PW. That was still 25% of the top 8 playing 12+ PW and 62% of the top 8 running Jace 2.0. Flores even talked about one of the players running Jace 1.0 to foil 2.0. All in all it just seems very degenerative to me.
I think on the last game when you played Earthquake you should have just held onto your mana for Consume the Meek on his turn.
Just say no to Landstill. If this is your brain, then this is your brain on drugs lol. Forget Landstill, run something with less Zzzz's, try New Horizons 80)
Rules should be explicit, but people should also be decent enough to have some discretion. Obviously his deck was nowhere close to the idea of the event, that much is obvious. If I have to go Nazi on the rules I will so that this does not happen again.
Again this goes to specification. Rules should explicit. The person was right that the changelings in his deck were spirits. He wasn't bending the 'spirit' of the spirit format to play them. As someone who has felt it unfair to face Maulers and Colossi at every turn in these events I shrug. Why change it now?
Don't forget City of Solitude and Dosan the Falling Leaf. Both are good for messing with control/blue decks.
Ritual of Subdual is another one that can mess with people, but it's one of those cards that only works well when you are ahead.
Yup. Changelings are every tribe at all times. 20-changeling decks qualify.
Close, but no cigar. Both forms allowed changelings, but Lorwyn Standard Tribal allowed _noncreature_ changelings to count. It was possible to build a creatureless tribal deck.
I use Seton, Krosan Protector as my mono green commander, my deck uses the most annoying card ever Hall of Gemstone. I do need to update it though it hasnt been touched since Lorwyn.
As someone who has admittedly never taken part in Tribal-anything, or never having really followed it, I just wanted to say that I'm fairly shocked that changelings are allowed in those formats. I just assumed all this time that they weren't. Seems very much against the spirit of the tribal concept. Kinda kills the tiny interest I may have had in it to begin with.
"A serious question, though: is a 20-Changelings deck really legal as a whatever tribe tribal deck? Is it not needed at least one member of the supposed tribe, i.e at least one spirit in this case?
"
I have a changeling deck thats 16 different tribes : )
No he had registered early and was always ready to go I just never added him to DCI-r since i missed hsi REG. The player we were pulling back for a little time-wise was rakura in order to allow him/her to finish there deck since they did not know it was a special week. I remember this specifically because that player missed the "spirit" part and had vampires to start. He played justsin in round 1
You sure he was not the guy joining last minute? He was not ready at 13:00 AM, we started playing around 13:10-13:15 AM. Besides, I have to testify that he tried to join my game with a sideboard, and PM me about the fact only to discover/recall that tribal requires no sideboard. So probably he wasn't very familiar with the format. He thought it was pauper too, so he actually used a pauper tribal sliver/whatever deck.
My guess is: he just said to himself, "Let's join this bunch of jolly people in their nice little tournament, but hey, I don't have a spirit deck ready, let's hastily change something in my sliver deck and see what happens". Now, this latter decision is surely questionable, but the guy's intent itself probably not.
A serious question, though: is a 20-Changelings deck really legal as a whatever tribe tribal deck? Is it not needed at least one member of the supposed tribe, i.e at least one spirit in this case?
he had actually previously signed up I just missed his reg. He had signed up 8 minutes after reg opened so it wasnt a random deck quickly thrown together. So he wasn't really helping, at all. We did have a player who joined about 10 minutes before the event started but they are completely different people. This guy knew what he was doing and when asked about his deck, his response was meh, they're spirits too. His whole attitude and everything else was just condescending, and I could care less if he shows back. We have plenty of players that are regulars who i enjoy chatting with and running events for. We get new people who are awesome players, but sometimes there is a bad one in the bunch.
One more thing: Supposedly the bug that puts your Commander in the graveyard when dealt lethal damage was fixed yesterday. I played two games and the situation never came up, but just wanted to let people know.
I agree with Flipper. If you don't want changelings, state that expressly in the rules. Winning tournaments is about exploiting the meta and the system. If certain things are "frowned upon" why not expressly forbid them?
Calling people out is your prerogative, whether in the column or in the comments, but if you guys want tourney attendance to increase, you gotta think of a better way to tell people what not to play.
I have to agree that playing slivers with changlings..well not a cool move. my vote would be for random 2HG as well. Second vote for pauper. Although FFA would be fun.
A suggestion, if people are going to include changlings, then one of two things, a deck must be all changlings and no other tribes, or if a person wants to run changlings, they must run at least 20 of the tribe the deck was intended to be, then they can add changlings as a support tribe.
So let me get this right 10 mins before the event started there was a player short for parings and a person in the room said they would fill in. This person had to make their deck from scratch in a very defined format with an extra restriction, which they may not have had cards to fulfil. The choice was legal and above board and he didn’t place in the prizes yet is attacked for trying to help.
Do you think this player will ever come back and try the event again or spread the word about how good the event is? I think not even though he was playing within the rules and doing so to help the event along.
Does this encourage other readers to try the event who read this article and the comments after?
I think I might have rage-logged if I realized that I failed to submit my deck. But obviously that would be an unwise decision. Way to stick it out and play through it, man.
actually only Carlos Romao's RUW deck ran 15 planeswalkers the other one ran twelve.
Too right give the budget players a chance :))
is it i not played one in ages
FFA's just become an attack the first one to drop a dual land, or attack the first one to play a card worth more than $5.
I had a long conversation with JustSin about changelings. Am I the only one who remembers when Lorwyn came out and there were two forms of Tribal? One that allowed changelings and one that didn't. I miss those days. I hate changelings. I think they go against the spirit of tribal. Call me a purest, but if you're using Minotaurs, then all your creature cards should say Creature - Minotaur. If you want to use the whiny argument that "there aren't enough good X creature," then you don't understand the point of tribal. Yeah, there aren't a lot of great Bears, doesn't mean I'm going to fill my deck with Changeling Titan, Game-Trail Changeling, and Chameleon Colossus. Yes, those cards are more "good" than Grizzly Bears, but they are NOT bears based on what it says right there on the card. As for the "douchiness" of that player... he got everything he deserved for showing up to a tournament that was meant to add fun and uniqueness to the format with a deck that flaunts the rules and is an insult to the other players who followed the deck building instructions. I would have called him something much less classy than a "douche." I think Shard is being very nice in using "douchiness." This reminds me of the guys we used to get at the restaurant who would come in with no pants on because the sign said "No shirt, no shoes, no service." They would say, "It didn't say we had to wear pants!" This required common sense and we shouldn't applaud people for acting like a "douche."
As for the vote, I most likely will be unable to play as usual, but I am all in favor of 2HG. That could be a ton of fun. That being said, Bingbongo mentioned FFA, which I think would be much more fun. I played in a 4 player FFA tribal game last night and it was a ton of fun.
I'm leaning towards agreeing with your disagreement! I'll admit, it's a 50/50 scenerio. Half the time, I'm singing Kiln Fiends praises winning turn 3, other times, I wish I didn't draw it (mid-late) and actually when you have it early, your opp (if good) has a full hand and a removal spell just for it.
I'm wondering now if a Green/Red or White/Red build would be even better, offering some shroud abilities to ensure it lives. Even so, building a deck around one card is risky, and would require blue to find it fast enough.
The fellow who got 2nd place last weekend had none, stating K.F.'s lack of BOOM power as a topdecker was something he didn't want.
For every turn 3 win, there is a late game draw where you just sigh and wish it was anything else. Wizards is surprisingly good at balancing things.
Thanks for the comment, like I said, I'm actually leaning towards not running these anymore, maybe just in SB for storm! (kidding) :)
It would be nice to see more screenshots of the actual game state when you are talking about situations. I find it can be difficult to keep an accurate vision of your board in my head as I read your walkthrough.
With that said, the effort is certainly appreciated and what you do is very good for the drafting community.