I have no clue as to if Std has ever hit $1200 for a top tier deck before(online of off)? That can not be good for the format, not in one that rotates as fast. Prices like these do keep people out of the format. Say what you will about how copy pasting a pro's list is not the only way to play, but we are not pros... So if they decide to build a list(UW,Super Friends,Next Level Bant etc) and run it into top spots vs the best players and best decks,we should all agree to those lists being far more viable and optimal than what we could come up with.
The better players gravitate towards the better decks. New players after seeing, need access to these decks as well. Plopping 1k into Std to start now has to be reconsidered because with that same price any deck in Legacy can be purchased.
Jace may hit 100 online, has any non foil rare hit 100 in std before?
agreed basic removal spells, counters, and such are utility, same with manlands. None of these have been made into mythics. Some may argue Mindbreak Trap is a mythic counter...which yeah its a "counter" but also so much more exiling any nuumber of spells on the stack and possibly doing it for free.
To me utility means Terminate, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Disenchant. Planeswalkers are win conditions. I think the more experienced people become with them the more this becomes clear. Sadly many people can't afford them and don't want to face them so they never really get the point.
All they see is, rich opponents who play lots of expensive land and then plop down Garruk or Jace or whomever and they lose either because they rage quit or because their deck can't handle the versatility of the cards. Planeswalkers are win cons all by themselves because they are versatile and in cases like Elspeth, defend themselves. Garruk might seem like utility since he helps fix mana every turn and then turns into an overrun but that is still a misperception. Mythics seem to me to be cards that either break the game in an unusual way or in a very powerful way.
Wrexial should be hotter but since his ability is odd and circumstantial (your op has to have targets to use in his graveyard) people haven't tried to make him work. Sphinx Ambassador suffers from being way too expensive. Admonition Angel is moderately useful but costs 6 and half that is WWW so she sees little play competitively. She isn't as all powerful as Iona. If her ability was destroy target nonland permanent shed be much more a staple card. I am sure that is why her ability doesn't do that.
I think the main problem is accessibility. If the planeswalkers were common no one would complain about power levels and we would soon find them more on the fringe as more effort went into making the meta hostile to them.
lol we all know sell prices are only what people are willing to pay...the trick is finding people willing to buy a card like negator. He is a great card, but I would imagine a good number of players are turned off by his ability unless they are old school players and have an idea how to work it. Which probably means they already have playsets. He isnt a bad card, but has circumstantial factors that make him hard to move.
Yeah, your commander being killed 3 times (would've been 4 if you hadn't countered that first doom blade) in the first 10 turns sucks. You were drawing a bunch of land also, which probably didn't help. That Warp World would have been interesting if it had resolved though.
i agree with a lot of what you said. Though I gthink most players rage comes from their personal definition of "Utility Cards" Due to what MaRo said about mythics I think people got the wrong ideas. For some reason it seems players view Planeswalkers as utility cards which i think is highly mistaken.
In my opinion, there are 2 different points about planeswalker : game implication & money implication. 2 differents causes with differents consequences that should not be mixed imho.
Game implication
Honestly, you have many ways to deal with planeswalkers. Each color has solution : needle being an example of a solid, cheap, fast and colorless response to any planewalkers immediate danger. Only in standard, if you except combat damage (which is a very good response to planeswalker btw) you could find : pulse, needle, hexmage, all is dust, o ring, cumulated burn, planar cleansing or even indirect card like meddling, counterspells etc ... including the planeswalker themself thank to the "legendary rule".
Yes, some planeswalker are just winning game. But there was a ton of winning cards like these in mtg history, and some of them were "either you counterspell me or you loose" with even less possibilities to deal with them ... in that, I am not considering planeswalker as broken or unfair. I also noted that many players are focused on their own deck more than on the environment : to try a good concept, then to implemant removal & hate card to protect it (4 card to remove creatures, 4 to enchantment, 4 to planeswalker ...). But imho, it is a mistake : the good way is to build with a perfect view of the entire strategy of the decks we are supposed to deal with : a planewalker alone isnt that effective, it is effective because all the deck is oriented to support that planeswalker and to make it efficient. Jace 2.0 alone vs 3 creatures does nothing, but if the opponent is running day of judgement, then it becomes a real threat . So to counter a day of judgement could be considered at this time as a "to deal with jace" in the strategy ...
Money implication
Yes mythics are very pricy. That was expectable. Mythics create high prices because of the rarity as well, but mostly because these cards are strictly better than many rare. That is the case of Planewalker, but not only. Baneslayer, vengevine are other examples and wont be the last. This is slowly but surely leading MTG to a race for mythic at each release, pushing to buy more packs & boxes as well as a gold rush.... in other words, mythics are simply creating a more expansive mtg game. Many players are feeling that and start to be angry about that (logicaly or not, nevermind). Planeswalkers are the flagships of what is a mythic card, so they naturaly focus these feelings, but all in all, planeswalker or not, the rage is more against the mythic card system than against a particular type of card.
I quit because you had me dead to the board with your dudes. Also, casting the commander and having it nuked more than a few times was annoying as heck.
Nice article & congratulation for the result with your favorite deck in the classic event : I wouldnt have bet that a flash deck could reach the final in the classic meta and you fairly well proved the opposite.
I know you're working on adding counterbalance into that deck since a long time. If this protection lock is nice, it however eats a lots of slot in the deck preventing you from running discard protection that could be useful with flash (duress/seize). I guess you tried different other version, so what are your feeling about cb vs black disruption ?
The other point is about ancestral vision slot : you mentioned it did not work well. To be honest and before reading the end of the article, I presumed it would be the case as this spell seems pretty long for a classic meta even if I really love this card. What about to run cunning wish instead ? It doent fill the same role but it could help you in many cases with a sb toolbox : to help to find combo pieces (by sbing tutors, pact or even reclaim ...), to provide removal (swords, edict ...) or protection (stifle, pact, orim ...) or another goodies. It is a slow way anyway, but did you ever have tried that ?
good luck with your flashing combo & congrat again for the final.
This comment perfectly explains the problem with mythics. They are rarer so they must be better. Since they are better and rarer they are more expensive. The price to play the game goes up.
Personally, I am fine with Ajani Goldmane being the best planeswalker.
I think the most important card in the "how to beat the combo" section is Pithing Needle as its an artifact and can be used against so many other cards.
I try and fit this card into a lot of my tribal decks when I dont have access to enchantment or artifact removal in tribal or any other format come to think of it.
Transmute is an activated ability: It reads "1BB, discard this card from your hand: Search your library for a card with converted mana cost 4 and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library." Suppression field, which says "activated abilities cost 2 more to activate unless they're mana abilities", should and does affect it.
So as you told me on Sunday you had just written an article on my ""Favourite Combo""
Nice read, but can't say i am shocked though know u too well.
The deck up to your usual high standards, shame u couldn't show us a turn one kill.
Do like the "How to beat the combo" part of the article but since it's a tribes deck not much chance of seeing most of the cards you list in a tribes deck, although does give players idea's if they face it in other formats.
Answer to your question
"Would you be happy to face a combo deck in tribal or do you think it goes against the format?"
No not really, but since the birth of Shards Tourney when have I not faced one so used to them now
So you finally decided to reveal your true self, huh? A servant of the dark side and an addict of combo decks. I guess those who knew you through your budget articles are in Staggershock and are in need of a Miraculous Ricovery (which will be countered of course).
Fun article. And now that you mentioned Dream Halls in the article, I would love to read what you can do with it. Oh and in case it wasen't clear, this was a reader request.
Yes and no. Sometimes tolerance means letting other people vent. Venting makes the world go round and occasionally out of all that angst an answer arises. Discussion not suppression is the way people find solutions.
I still do not believe the price of cards is anything for anyone to get as worked up about as these people do. Do they whine to their bosses when someone else makes more money, or when their neighbors wife is hotter? Sometimes you just have to deal with what life gives you. All the complaints and fist-shaking in the world wont fix it. So instead try finding a solution
I have no clue as to if Std has ever hit $1200 for a top tier deck before(online of off)? That can not be good for the format, not in one that rotates as fast. Prices like these do keep people out of the format. Say what you will about how copy pasting a pro's list is not the only way to play, but we are not pros... So if they decide to build a list(UW,Super Friends,Next Level Bant etc) and run it into top spots vs the best players and best decks,we should all agree to those lists being far more viable and optimal than what we could come up with.
The better players gravitate towards the better decks. New players after seeing, need access to these decks as well. Plopping 1k into Std to start now has to be reconsidered because with that same price any deck in Legacy can be purchased.
Jace may hit 100 online, has any non foil rare hit 100 in std before?
agreed basic removal spells, counters, and such are utility, same with manlands. None of these have been made into mythics. Some may argue Mindbreak Trap is a mythic counter...which yeah its a "counter" but also so much more exiling any nuumber of spells on the stack and possibly doing it for free.
To me utility means Terminate, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Disenchant. Planeswalkers are win conditions. I think the more experienced people become with them the more this becomes clear. Sadly many people can't afford them and don't want to face them so they never really get the point.
All they see is, rich opponents who play lots of expensive land and then plop down Garruk or Jace or whomever and they lose either because they rage quit or because their deck can't handle the versatility of the cards. Planeswalkers are win cons all by themselves because they are versatile and in cases like Elspeth, defend themselves. Garruk might seem like utility since he helps fix mana every turn and then turns into an overrun but that is still a misperception. Mythics seem to me to be cards that either break the game in an unusual way or in a very powerful way.
Wrexial should be hotter but since his ability is odd and circumstantial (your op has to have targets to use in his graveyard) people haven't tried to make him work. Sphinx Ambassador suffers from being way too expensive. Admonition Angel is moderately useful but costs 6 and half that is WWW so she sees little play competitively. She isn't as all powerful as Iona. If her ability was destroy target nonland permanent shed be much more a staple card. I am sure that is why her ability doesn't do that.
I think the main problem is accessibility. If the planeswalkers were common no one would complain about power levels and we would soon find them more on the fringe as more effort went into making the meta hostile to them.
lol we all know sell prices are only what people are willing to pay...the trick is finding people willing to buy a card like negator. He is a great card, but I would imagine a good number of players are turned off by his ability unless they are old school players and have an idea how to work it. Which probably means they already have playsets. He isnt a bad card, but has circumstantial factors that make him hard to move.
Thanks man.
Yeah, your commander being killed 3 times (would've been 4 if you hadn't countered that first doom blade) in the first 10 turns sucks. You were drawing a bunch of land also, which probably didn't help. That Warp World would have been interesting if it had resolved though.
I got 2 for you at 7 each. Seriously. (Not that I expect you want them, just sayin'.)
i agree with a lot of what you said. Though I gthink most players rage comes from their personal definition of "Utility Cards" Due to what MaRo said about mythics I think people got the wrong ideas. For some reason it seems players view Planeswalkers as utility cards which i think is highly mistaken.
In my opinion, there are 2 different points about planeswalker : game implication & money implication. 2 differents causes with differents consequences that should not be mixed imho.
Game implication
Honestly, you have many ways to deal with planeswalkers. Each color has solution : needle being an example of a solid, cheap, fast and colorless response to any planewalkers immediate danger. Only in standard, if you except combat damage (which is a very good response to planeswalker btw) you could find : pulse, needle, hexmage, all is dust, o ring, cumulated burn, planar cleansing or even indirect card like meddling, counterspells etc ... including the planeswalker themself thank to the "legendary rule".
Yes, some planeswalker are just winning game. But there was a ton of winning cards like these in mtg history, and some of them were "either you counterspell me or you loose" with even less possibilities to deal with them ... in that, I am not considering planeswalker as broken or unfair. I also noted that many players are focused on their own deck more than on the environment : to try a good concept, then to implemant removal & hate card to protect it (4 card to remove creatures, 4 to enchantment, 4 to planeswalker ...). But imho, it is a mistake : the good way is to build with a perfect view of the entire strategy of the decks we are supposed to deal with : a planewalker alone isnt that effective, it is effective because all the deck is oriented to support that planeswalker and to make it efficient. Jace 2.0 alone vs 3 creatures does nothing, but if the opponent is running day of judgement, then it becomes a real threat . So to counter a day of judgement could be considered at this time as a "to deal with jace" in the strategy ...
Money implication
Yes mythics are very pricy. That was expectable. Mythics create high prices because of the rarity as well, but mostly because these cards are strictly better than many rare. That is the case of Planewalker, but not only. Baneslayer, vengevine are other examples and wont be the last. This is slowly but surely leading MTG to a race for mythic at each release, pushing to buy more packs & boxes as well as a gold rush.... in other words, mythics are simply creating a more expansive mtg game. Many players are feeling that and start to be angry about that (logicaly or not, nevermind). Planeswalkers are the flagships of what is a mythic card, so they naturaly focus these feelings, but all in all, planeswalker or not, the rage is more against the mythic card system than against a particular type of card.
only my opinion though
I quit because you had me dead to the board with your dudes. Also, casting the commander and having it nuked more than a few times was annoying as heck.
Good article.
Nice article & congratulation for the result with your favorite deck in the classic event : I wouldnt have bet that a flash deck could reach the final in the classic meta and you fairly well proved the opposite.
I know you're working on adding counterbalance into that deck since a long time. If this protection lock is nice, it however eats a lots of slot in the deck preventing you from running discard protection that could be useful with flash (duress/seize). I guess you tried different other version, so what are your feeling about cb vs black disruption ?
The other point is about ancestral vision slot : you mentioned it did not work well. To be honest and before reading the end of the article, I presumed it would be the case as this spell seems pretty long for a classic meta even if I really love this card. What about to run cunning wish instead ? It doent fill the same role but it could help you in many cases with a sb toolbox : to help to find combo pieces (by sbing tutors, pact or even reclaim ...), to provide removal (swords, edict ...) or protection (stifle, pact, orim ...) or another goodies. It is a slow way anyway, but did you ever have tried that ?
good luck with your flashing combo & congrat again for the final.
This comment perfectly explains the problem with mythics. They are rarer so they must be better. Since they are better and rarer they are more expensive. The price to play the game goes up.
Personally, I am fine with Ajani Goldmane being the best planeswalker.
No need to fight over little old me :). I wasn't really whining. I just wanted to bring up a point I felt was being overlooked.
At least we all agree that the cost of playing magic is going up and I think that should be concerning to all of us.
Deck 2 Tamanoa?
Gain back the 2 the Sorrows Path hit you for and an additional 2 for each creature you have out.
Great stuff as usual. However, Paul is right. That first deck needs some enlightened tutors. Even one would help out.
I think the most important card in the "how to beat the combo" section is Pithing Needle as its an artifact and can be used against so many other cards.
I try and fit this card into a lot of my tribal decks when I dont have access to enchantment or artifact removal in tribal or any other format come to think of it.
Thanks LE :)
Dream Halls is a card I will look into. I have a deck planned but require the cards so will have a look and see what I can do.
Transmute is an activated ability: It reads "1BB, discard this card from your hand: Search your library for a card with converted mana cost 4 and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library." Suppression field, which says "activated abilities cost 2 more to activate unless they're mana abilities", should and does affect it.
So as you told me on Sunday you had just written an article on my ""Favourite Combo""
Nice read, but can't say i am shocked though know u too well.
The deck up to your usual high standards, shame u couldn't show us a turn one kill.
Do like the "How to beat the combo" part of the article but since it's a tribes deck not much chance of seeing most of the cards you list in a tribes deck, although does give players idea's if they face it in other formats.
Answer to your question
"Would you be happy to face a combo deck in tribal or do you think it goes against the format?"
No not really, but since the birth of Shards Tourney when have I not faced one so used to them now
So you finally decided to reveal your true self, huh? A servant of the dark side and an addict of combo decks. I guess those who knew you through your budget articles are in Staggershock and are in need of a Miraculous Ricovery (which will be countered of course).
Fun article. And now that you mentioned Dream Halls in the article, I would love to read what you can do with it. Oh and in case it wasen't clear, this was a reader request.
LE
Thanks for the comment Wyrath, and hope to see you soon in BYOS tournaments.
Thanks everybody for the comments. If you liked this one, I'm sure you'll love the next one.
And I do hope that someone from WotC is reading these and that they someday decide to make it an official format for MTGO.
LE
Deck #1 no enlightened tutor?
Yes and no. Sometimes tolerance means letting other people vent. Venting makes the world go round and occasionally out of all that angst an answer arises. Discussion not suppression is the way people find solutions.
Fun article, hate the deck. Really. Don't bring that against me.
I believe the field is for helm.
I still do not believe the price of cards is anything for anyone to get as worked up about as these people do. Do they whine to their bosses when someone else makes more money, or when their neighbors wife is hotter? Sometimes you just have to deal with what life gives you. All the complaints and fist-shaking in the world wont fix it. So instead try finding a solution