Lours...common sense should be the best and simplest answer, but I have come to have a rather low opinion of the majority of MTGO players after hanging out in the cas/cas room for years. No one really cares about anything other than their own win/loss record so expecting to adhere to anything is like hoping money rains down on me when i go to lunch. Sadly without an word for word specified list people feign ignorance and laugh from behind their computer screens.
And this isn't just mtgo dont be offended, I have rather low opinions of humanity IRL and MTGO
Lours the idea here isnt to kill ALL combos just the most abusive early turn ones and also with the addition of sideboards i really think that things will improve greatly.
There really is no good reason that this format cant be both casual based and competetive. Same was said about pauper at one point or even classic but both of thoes formats ended up getting a large enough group of players and designed their format well enough that wizards took notice the of the sheer number of people enjoying the format.
Right now as is the format's broken and easy to abuse. Its easy to say that all day untill your face is blue, but it takes more balls to actually try to mold something you love into a final product that anyone can enjoy with very little to no interpetation required.
I didnt play these event at the moment, but I practiced a bit in the casual room but I'll submit my opinion anyway.
The eternal formats, and especialy non-singleton classic based format are favorable to combo by themself : you could ban any cards you want, combo will ever be around. And let's be realistic, there is no way to deal with combo without a consistent build AND a consistent sideboard. Being an eternal format hardplayer, I am used to deal with combo, but without the sb, I couldnt. It would be a coin flip format.
The fact is that Classic tribal is enjoyable while it remains a CASUAL format. It doesnt mean the decks should be grizzly bear vs grizzly bear : the incredible number of available cards allows to have a lot of fun, much more than if the format was smaller like extend/overextend or anything else. But it implies that players use their common sense when they are building to keep the spirit of casual. If not, there always will be a player to come with an insane combo, putting all the other players into an auto'loss.
Let's be honest, it is not difficult for any player to know when his deck is a combo deck or if it is not. What's the aim to play a T3 combo or even a T5 combo in that format ? Proudness to win a tournament vs casual deck who doesnt have any chance to deal with them ? Probably, and it's a shame. If combo player or ultra-spikes guys wanted to show us their talent in combo, then they will join real combo format as classic or even legacy constructed events are... and not to come in a tribal contest with an unfun, unfair and easy decks only to show they could win with it. Without being a genius, the result is expectable and easy to guess when you come with a sneakdrazi, NO/prog, spanish inquisition type deck or whatever : they win the contest and they kill the format. That's the hard reality.
COMMON SENSE is the basis of this format, but yeah, the definition is probably different for everybody ... with good intention,z it will be easy to correct it ... anyway i hope that for all enthusiast of this format.
Just to catch you up at this point we're trying to talkin about what changes could be made to make this a fair and format for everyone rather then a unclear and unfun format full of double standards.
ok so I started to read the comments, but found I currently don't have the attention span to do so for all, but I would like to add I spent some time with endless play testing against that deck and bouncing ideas (though that was pre-Order) the deck was brutal then and I'm guessin made much worse by the addition of Order
as far as the two top decks being combo based I'd of a mind where I had no problem losing to endless' deck (though again pre-order if I lost to order progen on top of the sick orb lock I'd be frustrated lol), but I would have had issue with Ranth (boy deja vu eh?)... doomsday shelldock into eldrazi? no thanks
I recently decided to play some std singleton, as I grew tired of it and gave it up for awhile and saw your winning UG list and decided to immediately start with that. I started out card for card to test in some 2-mans and against some buddies that I know have good decks. I was destroying the Grixis decks (haven't dropped a match yet), but losing horribly to decent Naya decks, so I started tweaking. I ended up adding white and haven't lost to either Grixis or Naya since then so far in the 2-mans. I have to say Sphinx of Magosi belongs main though the deck seems to have problems with Baneslayer, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, or Elspeth jumping guys without some fliers to block them. I was boarding it in for nearly every matchup and boarding out one of the eldrazi, so I just made a switch and moved one of the eldrazi side.
Great deck, I have enjoyed playing with it and tweaking it.
Without mana burn it is a super effective counter though. Until Fow it was the highest priced counter in the game (a play set was like $200 back in the 90s) The reason for that is, it is broken even with mana burn in the game so without it it is just as you say an enabler. I can see mana draining something like a 6cmc and casting a 12 cmc eldrazi on the next turn. Potentially game wrecking. But you are right its not technically broken since it generally doesn't win by itself.
I agree with Top being banned, it doesn't really serve any great tribal purpose.
Yawgmoth's will is already banned within the mtgo client, so whatever our opinion is doesn't really matter. That said, I would say unban it. It's true power relies on combo type decks, and without combo enablers it's no longer an overpowered card.
I fail to see any problem with mana drain, infact i see it as a creature enabler. It allows you to play creatures that might not fit your decks curve. It won't cheat a progenitus into play, but it could help you get some of your 6cc guys down a turn or two earlier.
I wasn't around during Unhinged as I quit magic for awhile, but I do remember playing a lot of unglued when it came out. I had a deck with Hungry, Hungry Heifer, Giant Fan, spike weaver and Feeder. It was fun.
I also built a "Cheese Stands Alone" deck. It was a broken Type 1 deck with all of the artifact mana cards I had, the key being Lion's Eye Diamond and Jokulhaups. I only played it a couple of times before our play group decided the coolness was gone.
Yawgmoth's Will - I think this card could be broken in a lot of ways letting you replay spells.
Sensei's Divining Top - I think this card really slows down the game and lets you choose to not draw you tribal creatures each turn. You could say Jace, the mind Scuplter should be banned for the same reason and I think it should be. We dont get many complaints about this card as most of the players in the event wouldn't look to buy a playset for casual play.
I love UG decks and though I despise eldrazi this seems a perfect deck for them. I haven't played much SS because well...it's standard but looks good from what I can see. You said you took Overgrown Battlement out but I see it made the final cut. Excellent first parter, I look forward to the rest.
i think all of these could safely be removed from that list
Frantic Search
Gush
LandTax
Black Vise
Mind Twist
Mana Drain
Wheel of Fortune
Yawg's will
Sword of the meek (ban thopter foundry instead)
Sensei's Divining Top
Yes i realize some of these have powerful effects, However In a tribal setting most of these wont or maybe in some cases even can't cause havoc beyond their oringinal design intent.
Lours...common sense should be the best and simplest answer, but I have come to have a rather low opinion of the majority of MTGO players after hanging out in the cas/cas room for years. No one really cares about anything other than their own win/loss record so expecting to adhere to anything is like hoping money rains down on me when i go to lunch. Sadly without an word for word specified list people feign ignorance and laugh from behind their computer screens.
And this isn't just mtgo dont be offended, I have rather low opinions of humanity IRL and MTGO
I actually enjoy the fact that there is no sideboards
Lours the idea here isnt to kill ALL combos just the most abusive early turn ones and also with the addition of sideboards i really think that things will improve greatly.
There really is no good reason that this format cant be both casual based and competetive. Same was said about pauper at one point or even classic but both of thoes formats ended up getting a large enough group of players and designed their format well enough that wizards took notice the of the sheer number of people enjoying the format.
Right now as is the format's broken and easy to abuse. Its easy to say that all day untill your face is blue, but it takes more balls to actually try to mold something you love into a final product that anyone can enjoy with very little to no interpetation required.
I didnt play these event at the moment, but I practiced a bit in the casual room but I'll submit my opinion anyway.
The eternal formats, and especialy non-singleton classic based format are favorable to combo by themself : you could ban any cards you want, combo will ever be around. And let's be realistic, there is no way to deal with combo without a consistent build AND a consistent sideboard. Being an eternal format hardplayer, I am used to deal with combo, but without the sb, I couldnt. It would be a coin flip format.
The fact is that Classic tribal is enjoyable while it remains a CASUAL format. It doesnt mean the decks should be grizzly bear vs grizzly bear : the incredible number of available cards allows to have a lot of fun, much more than if the format was smaller like extend/overextend or anything else. But it implies that players use their common sense when they are building to keep the spirit of casual. If not, there always will be a player to come with an insane combo, putting all the other players into an auto'loss.
Let's be honest, it is not difficult for any player to know when his deck is a combo deck or if it is not. What's the aim to play a T3 combo or even a T5 combo in that format ? Proudness to win a tournament vs casual deck who doesnt have any chance to deal with them ? Probably, and it's a shame. If combo player or ultra-spikes guys wanted to show us their talent in combo, then they will join real combo format as classic or even legacy constructed events are... and not to come in a tribal contest with an unfun, unfair and easy decks only to show they could win with it. Without being a genius, the result is expectable and easy to guess when you come with a sneakdrazi, NO/prog, spanish inquisition type deck or whatever : they win the contest and they kill the format. That's the hard reality.
COMMON SENSE is the basis of this format, but yeah, the definition is probably different for everybody ... with good intention,z it will be easy to correct it ... anyway i hope that for all enthusiast of this format.
lol no worries i understand i work 9 hours myself 11pm-8am
thanks.. these 12 hour work days are killer on the attention span lol
Just to catch you up at this point we're trying to talkin about what changes could be made to make this a fair and format for everyone rather then a unclear and unfun format full of double standards.
ok so I started to read the comments, but found I currently don't have the attention span to do so for all, but I would like to add I spent some time with endless play testing against that deck and bouncing ideas (though that was pre-Order) the deck was brutal then and I'm guessin made much worse by the addition of Order
as far as the two top decks being combo based I'd of a mind where I had no problem losing to endless' deck (though again pre-order if I lost to order progen on top of the sick orb lock I'd be frustrated lol), but I would have had issue with Ranth (boy deja vu eh?)... doomsday shelldock into eldrazi? no thanks
I recently decided to play some std singleton, as I grew tired of it and gave it up for awhile and saw your winning UG list and decided to immediately start with that. I started out card for card to test in some 2-mans and against some buddies that I know have good decks. I was destroying the Grixis decks (haven't dropped a match yet), but losing horribly to decent Naya decks, so I started tweaking. I ended up adding white and haven't lost to either Grixis or Naya since then so far in the 2-mans. I have to say Sphinx of Magosi belongs main though the deck seems to have problems with Baneslayer, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, or Elspeth jumping guys without some fliers to block them. I was boarding it in for nearly every matchup and boarding out one of the eldrazi, so I just made a switch and moved one of the eldrazi side.
Great deck, I have enjoyed playing with it and tweaking it.
and whats wrong with Inglorious Bastards??
nice to see more archons hittin play, but whats with the high ccs?
To be honest, I'd have been less irked if you had used Eldrazi.
That will actually probably be exactly what happens...
Without mana burn it is a super effective counter though. Until Fow it was the highest priced counter in the game (a play set was like $200 back in the 90s) The reason for that is, it is broken even with mana burn in the game so without it it is just as you say an enabler. I can see mana draining something like a 6cmc and casting a 12 cmc eldrazi on the next turn. Potentially game wrecking. But you are right its not technically broken since it generally doesn't win by itself.
I agree with Top being banned, it doesn't really serve any great tribal purpose.
Yawgmoth's will is already banned within the mtgo client, so whatever our opinion is doesn't really matter. That said, I would say unban it. It's true power relies on combo type decks, and without combo enablers it's no longer an overpowered card.
I fail to see any problem with mana drain, infact i see it as a creature enabler. It allows you to play creatures that might not fit your decks curve. It won't cheat a progenitus into play, but it could help you get some of your 6cc guys down a turn or two earlier.
I love ramp decks so much. I'd definitely give this a whirl, but unfortunately I don't own a Jace2.0 :(
Yeah, honestly you're better off just playing sparkmage. I just can't bring myself to play a non-goblin in a goblin deck :-)
Hmm that's awkward, looked a lot better when I previewed it.
I wasn't around during Unhinged as I quit magic for awhile, but I do remember playing a lot of unglued when it came out. I had a deck with Hungry, Hungry Heifer, Giant Fan, spike weaver and Feeder. It was fun.
I also built a "Cheese Stands Alone" deck. It was a broken Type 1 deck with all of the artifact mana cards I had, the key being Lion's Eye Diamond and Jokulhaups. I only played it a couple of times before our play group decided the coolness was gone.
That is a pretty good point
I agree on all those apart from
Yawgmoth's Will - I think this card could be broken in a lot of ways letting you replay spells.
Sensei's Divining Top - I think this card really slows down the game and lets you choose to not draw you tribal creatures each turn. You could say Jace, the mind Scuplter should be banned for the same reason and I think it should be. We dont get many complaints about this card as most of the players in the event wouldn't look to buy a playset for casual play.
I love UG decks and though I despise eldrazi this seems a perfect deck for them. I haven't played much SS because well...it's standard but looks good from what I can see. You said you took Overgrown Battlement out but I see it made the final cut. Excellent first parter, I look forward to the rest.
I agree Stag could be a very important card and its price is going up each week slowly.
i think all of these could safely be removed from that list
Frantic Search
Gush
LandTax
Black Vise
Mind Twist
Mana Drain
Wheel of Fortune
Yawg's will
Sword of the meek (ban thopter foundry instead)
Sensei's Divining Top
Yes i realize some of these have powerful effects, However In a tribal setting most of these wont or maybe in some cases even can't cause havoc beyond their oringinal design intent.
Yes I dont think Gush should be on the list either in tribal, its a good card to run with Landfall creatures.