I can just see it now...wotc programs uncards in...system crashes permanantly.
As fun as it would be, wotc can barely keep mtgo running as-is. And since they would make barely anything off it, i dont see it happening. Would be fun though.
I can see a few cards being put online as promos though, super secret tech being the main one that people want.
I haven't run a goblin deck like this since Rise came out, but I was pretty happy with goblin artillery in a lot of matchups. It fills the cunning sparkmage role against mythic for example. It also goes well with a warren strike where you drop a chieftain first since it'll have haste then and you can use it right after you drop it. Obviously you have to play around the 3 damage it deals to you so it comes out against really aggro decks.
My biggest problem with the goblin deck is the lack of a really good big drop. Siege-gang is just not good enough to carry the deck, even if you get it out for free. Its too fragile, mana intensive, and board sweepers are too plentiful (YOU have them in your v1/2 SBs even!).
Has there been one tribal pre that has ended without a bunch of complaining? Every single article is about how someone brought a hardcore deck that broke the spirit of the rules. Either change the rules (banhammer?), start blocking people from joining, or do nothing. Either way stop complaining about it every week, it makes people not want to join the pre.
Top-notch article. I've considered the anti-synergy of sacrificing tokens to achieve mana ramp with enablers, but I'd never really thought through the Ondu Giant vs. Kozilek's Predator trade-offs in that way before. Insightful.
I'd previously just been on a bit of auto-pilot, on, for example, Ondu Giant vs. Nest Invader... Ondu Giant gives durable mana, so it's pretty much a coin-flip, right? So, when I had a missing 4-drop, I filled out my curve with Ondu Giant. Based on this article, I think I'd preference the Nest Invader.
I do like the ramp ability of prismatic lens into rush, but it can also be cast early into quick starts. The prophetic prism, while it replaces itself, it slows your game down much.
I really like Lotus Petal in the deck. DA, if I was going to make changes based on your tournament conclusions, I would remove a rush and a petal for two prismatic lens or an island and a lens, then test.
Can't say I much love goblins seeing as they are a constant bane of Tribal Wars Classic. But this seems like a fun article. I just saw Inglorious Bastards and can't say Id want to name a goblin deck after it but :D.
One. I did not realize Slippery Bogle was a beast so that kinda hurt.
Two. With 7 cipt lands, I was really hoping on being able to play one of them first turn when I had no plays.
See thats the problem the occasional guy that wants to blow 3 hours out of his weekend ruining an event for everyone else shouldnt make those cards deserve a banning. There are always fun uses to some of these combo cards. I dont want to restrict creativity to combat douchebagginess.
1) screw those who don't like your decks. I am so tired of hearing players tear other players down. Play what you want.
2) I sympathize with the feeling of deprivation over the loss of "old" extended. I do think however that for the casual player this can be just a matter of social agreement to play with certain sets as if it were a legal format. Takes a bit more effort and trust but I think it can be done. I think there are enough players who enjoyed extended casual that this should not be a problem picking up games.
I accept that is true for PREs, and I recognise it is viable in that context. But in Tribal as a whole, out in the wilds of cas/cas, there is no way to uphold that. I'm not just interested in tribal as a PRE format but as a format in its totality. It is from this perspective that I say it is unrepairable: As with the principles of collectivism, fixes like these are absolutely fine on a family-size scale, a PRE scale, but try to expand them to cover everyone and you run into massive problems.
Here here... plus those of us who play online only are pretty much at the mercy of the client when it comes to getting into games. With old extended I could get a game in the casual room easily and the decks I play there were good for a couple of years. Now suddenly they're legacy or classic decks, and the legacy and classic players really don't want me showing up with my lame extended dex.
Do you really think that's all the thought we put into this Flip? You've set up a false dichotomy. The options aren't a) Play broken legacy tournament combo deck, or b) Play brain dead aggro deck. There are a wide variety of deck ideas out there that don't fit either category.
If we don't recognize the limits of the format and throw it open to whatever crazy classic legal 2 turn combo kill the classic players come up with wrapped up in an irrelevant tribal shell, then you're essentially telling me to not bother showing up with my bird or lizard deck because they can't possibly win. Heck they can't possibly even slow down those kinds of decks. If you've brought a deck that can consistently win on turn 2 or 3, then you probably won't even see wtf tribe I brought to the table!
Also, grow a thicker skin. It's not like we've brought your mother into it... yet... ;)
Ranth: Have you lost your mind? Yah there's absolutely no difference between someone sitting on the left side of the room, or wearing a red shirt; and playing a TRIBAL deck where your decks goal is to dump every single vampire you have into your graveyard and combo out with 5 cards which share no tribe or even theme with your deck? Lets cut the sensationalism please.
Now we're talking! I find this deck to be much better than a straight ramp deck because I feel it gives you many, many more routes to victory than depending on landing a large creature and hope that you survive and nothing happens to it. Not to mention the ramp creatures can't even be cast without the ramp, while the early token enablers have a lot of utility in the early game, even without their little buddies. So you can load up on enablers and not worry as much about an unbalanced draw - after all you can sac an Invoker to a Vampire, but you can't use a Crusher to cast an Artisan.
see instead of just excepting the general atmosphere of play style in the event you want to sit here and argue about it. You've played before you know what no one likes and chose to play it anyways. So deal with the consequences. If it had been your first event then it would not have been a problem. We have had people show up with goblins their first time and no one flipped out. In fact after seeing their opponents decks, they figured it out and showed up the next week with something inline with everyone else. If you want to run around and play broken decks i hear Dark Wars is starting back up. If you want to have fun and play tribal...actual tribal...not combo with 20 creatures stuck in then youre more than welcome too. So no matter how much you want too, the general opinion of people how play inthe events will remain the same. You can either agree to it, or not. Just dont ruin the events with decks you make to prove points. And no one called you a d-bag until youre statement of "Everyone thinks im an asshole, so I built a deck to prove them right." And yes that is a douchebag comment.
Badger if you had any idea How anti-ban hammer of a guy i am you'd be truely amazed that im actually the one lobbying for them....Just ask Amar or Necrosavant about it lmao.
Aj in player run events the honor system is all you have so either you believe that people aren't changing their decks in between matches or dont run a tournament.
Same could be said here run the games under the classic(or legacy) filter and allow sideboards if we really believe that to be the solution to this "un-repairable format"
But honestly i think the only true way to fix the format is to allow sideboards AND have a banned list that might need cards added due to the nature of the format.
Lol I see you guys once again would like to focus on only a small part of the subject i brought up but you know thats fine. I'll just remind you. Go back up to my comment and re-read the vast array of things that people have been blasted for in the past and feel free to re-comment.
Also the "this is a sponsoered tournament attitude" is just my simple way of saying keep the rules consistant and if a player has fun playing within the rules then as a host dont blast the player as they've done nothing wrong.
Its really not any diffrent then a judge blasting soemone because they have a red shirt on and they're on the rigth side of the room but if they were on the left side it's perfectly fine.
I can just see it now...wotc programs uncards in...system crashes permanantly.
As fun as it would be, wotc can barely keep mtgo running as-is. And since they would make barely anything off it, i dont see it happening. Would be fun though.
I can see a few cards being put online as promos though, super secret tech being the main one that people want.
I haven't run a goblin deck like this since Rise came out, but I was pretty happy with goblin artillery in a lot of matchups. It fills the cunning sparkmage role against mythic for example. It also goes well with a warren strike where you drop a chieftain first since it'll have haste then and you can use it right after you drop it. Obviously you have to play around the 3 damage it deals to you so it comes out against really aggro decks.
My biggest problem with the goblin deck is the lack of a really good big drop. Siege-gang is just not good enough to carry the deck, even if you get it out for free. Its too fragile, mana intensive, and board sweepers are too plentiful (YOU have them in your v1/2 SBs even!).
Consider manabarbs for the side board.
Has there been one tribal pre that has ended without a bunch of complaining? Every single article is about how someone brought a hardcore deck that broke the spirit of the rules. Either change the rules (banhammer?), start blocking people from joining, or do nothing. Either way stop complaining about it every week, it makes people not want to join the pre.
Top-notch article. I've considered the anti-synergy of sacrificing tokens to achieve mana ramp with enablers, but I'd never really thought through the Ondu Giant vs. Kozilek's Predator trade-offs in that way before. Insightful.
I'd previously just been on a bit of auto-pilot, on, for example, Ondu Giant vs. Nest Invader... Ondu Giant gives durable mana, so it's pretty much a coin-flip, right? So, when I had a missing 4-drop, I filled out my curve with Ondu Giant. Based on this article, I think I'd preference the Nest Invader.
I do like the ramp ability of prismatic lens into rush, but it can also be cast early into quick starts. The prophetic prism, while it replaces itself, it slows your game down much.
I really like Lotus Petal in the deck. DA, if I was going to make changes based on your tournament conclusions, I would remove a rush and a petal for two prismatic lens or an island and a lens, then test.
Can't say I much love goblins seeing as they are a constant bane of Tribal Wars Classic. But this seems like a fun article. I just saw Inglorious Bastards and can't say Id want to name a goblin deck after it but :D.
gotcha
actually I did not for two reasons
One. I did not realize Slippery Bogle was a beast so that kinda hurt.
Two. With 7 cipt lands, I was really hoping on being able to play one of them first turn when I had no plays.
On the subject of your deck, did you consider Slippery Bogle for another low cost beast (the cheapest I think) with trollshroud?
See thats the problem the occasional guy that wants to blow 3 hours out of his weekend ruining an event for everyone else shouldnt make those cards deserve a banning. There are always fun uses to some of these combo cards. I dont want to restrict creativity to combat douchebagginess.
1) screw those who don't like your decks. I am so tired of hearing players tear other players down. Play what you want.
2) I sympathize with the feeling of deprivation over the loss of "old" extended. I do think however that for the casual player this can be just a matter of social agreement to play with certain sets as if it were a legal format. Takes a bit more effort and trust but I think it can be done. I think there are enough players who enjoyed extended casual that this should not be a problem picking up games.
I accept that is true for PREs, and I recognise it is viable in that context. But in Tribal as a whole, out in the wilds of cas/cas, there is no way to uphold that. I'm not just interested in tribal as a PRE format but as a format in its totality. It is from this perspective that I say it is unrepairable: As with the principles of collectivism, fixes like these are absolutely fine on a family-size scale, a PRE scale, but try to expand them to cover everyone and you run into massive problems.
Here here... plus those of us who play online only are pretty much at the mercy of the client when it comes to getting into games. With old extended I could get a game in the casual room easily and the decks I play there were good for a couple of years. Now suddenly they're legacy or classic decks, and the legacy and classic players really don't want me showing up with my lame extended dex.
Do you really think that's all the thought we put into this Flip? You've set up a false dichotomy. The options aren't a) Play broken legacy tournament combo deck, or b) Play brain dead aggro deck. There are a wide variety of deck ideas out there that don't fit either category.
If we don't recognize the limits of the format and throw it open to whatever crazy classic legal 2 turn combo kill the classic players come up with wrapped up in an irrelevant tribal shell, then you're essentially telling me to not bother showing up with my bird or lizard deck because they can't possibly win. Heck they can't possibly even slow down those kinds of decks. If you've brought a deck that can consistently win on turn 2 or 3, then you probably won't even see wtf tribe I brought to the table!
Also, grow a thicker skin. It's not like we've brought your mother into it... yet... ;)
Oh the Drama
Time i think Shard for adding to your banning list (cards that is)
Ranth: Have you lost your mind? Yah there's absolutely no difference between someone sitting on the left side of the room, or wearing a red shirt; and playing a TRIBAL deck where your decks goal is to dump every single vampire you have into your graveyard and combo out with 5 cards which share no tribe or even theme with your deck? Lets cut the sensationalism please.
Now we're talking! I find this deck to be much better than a straight ramp deck because I feel it gives you many, many more routes to victory than depending on landing a large creature and hope that you survive and nothing happens to it. Not to mention the ramp creatures can't even be cast without the ramp, while the early token enablers have a lot of utility in the early game, even without their little buddies. So you can load up on enablers and not worry as much about an unbalanced draw - after all you can sac an Invoker to a Vampire, but you can't use a Crusher to cast an Artisan.
Im with you here I think. Play what you want, accept the hate and be cool with it.
Indeed, very double standard and an issue that has kept me from wanting to even build for the event.
I meant decks that can do broken things.
see instead of just excepting the general atmosphere of play style in the event you want to sit here and argue about it. You've played before you know what no one likes and chose to play it anyways. So deal with the consequences. If it had been your first event then it would not have been a problem. We have had people show up with goblins their first time and no one flipped out. In fact after seeing their opponents decks, they figured it out and showed up the next week with something inline with everyone else. If you want to run around and play broken decks i hear Dark Wars is starting back up. If you want to have fun and play tribal...actual tribal...not combo with 20 creatures stuck in then youre more than welcome too. So no matter how much you want too, the general opinion of people how play inthe events will remain the same. You can either agree to it, or not. Just dont ruin the events with decks you make to prove points. And no one called you a d-bag until youre statement of "Everyone thinks im an asshole, so I built a deck to prove them right." And yes that is a douchebag comment.
Badger if you had any idea How anti-ban hammer of a guy i am you'd be truely amazed that im actually the one lobbying for them....Just ask Amar or Necrosavant about it lmao.
Aj in player run events the honor system is all you have so either you believe that people aren't changing their decks in between matches or dont run a tournament.
Same could be said here run the games under the classic(or legacy) filter and allow sideboards if we really believe that to be the solution to this "un-repairable format"
But honestly i think the only true way to fix the format is to allow sideboards AND have a banned list that might need cards added due to the nature of the format.
:D Awesome article, I'm glad to finally see this one. (How many months ago were you telling me about the idea??)
Also, I totally think BFM is programmable online.
Lol I see you guys once again would like to focus on only a small part of the subject i brought up but you know thats fine. I'll just remind you. Go back up to my comment and re-read the vast array of things that people have been blasted for in the past and feel free to re-comment.
Also the "this is a sponsoered tournament attitude" is just my simple way of saying keep the rules consistant and if a player has fun playing within the rules then as a host dont blast the player as they've done nothing wrong.
Its really not any diffrent then a judge blasting soemone because they have a red shirt on and they're on the rigth side of the room but if they were on the left side it's perfectly fine.