First of all, I'm not claiming that this is my deck, nor I'm not advertising it to be super powerful. I'm just a type of person that gets quickly excited over one thing. And it's true, it can beat any deck. Yet, not always. Just as any decks. Of course Mythic can kill you on turn 4. Of course, RDW can too. But there is "can" in that sentence, not "will". I sad this Eldrazi deck can put an Eldrazi in play turn 5, but it can also get mana screwed and don't play it at all.
And your making me sound like I wanted to prove to everyone that this deck is unbeatable and super powerful and nothing can beat it. No, I didn't say that, but in my eyes (and apparently my luck) he has about the same winning chance as Jund in competitive tournament.
That's me. Not you.
To claim a deck beats everything in the current standard environment is sheer ignorance. While it does draw attention to your deck there are better ways to do that other than making blatantly false statements. False advertising has always been a pet peeve of mine.
I do like the idea of the deck, but I think it's better suited for block, since well all the cards in you 75 are block legal and there aren't Jund or Mythic decks in block. You claimed turn 5+ Kozileks and Ulamogs, but Mythic can easily kill you on 4, and postboard can have negate backup the entire game. Similarly Jund is a monster for a reason, and the G/W Eldrazi deck can't fight off Blightning or Maelstrom Pulse very effectively.
This is not to mention the various combo decks that don't care about your giant guy and will just kill you anyways, since you have zero spot removal in the W/G deck and are thus drawing dead to Polymorph decks or Lotus Cobra starts from Turboland.
Great article, well written and flavorful, but don't advertise your deck as so much better than it actually is next time.
Honestly, this card is way better than it gets credit for. I think simply not being as good as SoLoMoxen and being banned in Legacy for so long has left everyone with the impression it's nothing special - Kind of like Chrome Mox - useful in a list here or there but inherently not that good.
Grim is nuts. I can see it making a big splash in legacy when it gets unbanned on the 14th (for whatever reason they are waiting for that)
Cool article. I went 2-1 in that event with my Birds deck (I was 1 topdeck away from beating a Cheating Eldrazi dec. If you see me in game, gimme a challenge, I'd like to play against that dec.
I have been running these lists in the Tournament Practice room for a little over half a week and have had problems with the zoo, goblins, and merfolk matchup.
Duplicant's and Jester's cap have been underwhelming thus far. Pithing Needles would have definitely been in my board, but I only owned two (and its either 3-4 in the board or zero in my opinion).
After some testing against Dredge, I realized that needles are not needed that much in the matchup. The Crypts are enough to handle their onslaught while you assemble trinisphere/sphere of resistance on the board.
Merfolk was a big problem. Ensnaring bridge is not as good against them as I initially had thought. Turn 1 Aether vial is definitely problems and think pithing needle is the perfect solution for that.
I have slowly been considering adding White to the mix for enlightened tutor/ghostly prison for the creature based decks. This deck lacks good answers for goblins and merfolk.
The classic list is better than the legacy list due to grim monolith. I do not think the deck is competitive enough in legacy until grim monolith is unbanned.
Brilliant, LE - three decks for the price of one! I'm a sucker for mono white, so am intrigued by your first deck. They all look good though. And the Ascension combo deck from your game 3 opponent with your fish deck look interesting too - you looked dead in the water there (small pun intended).
Very nice article indeed. You didn't mention Naya Vengevine in the matchups section, I'd guess they'd be fast enough to cause you problems too?
I like the idea of powering out early Eldrazi, but always assumed it wouldn't go beyond tier 1.5 at most as besides Emrakul, they're quite open to removal. Drawing 4 off Kozilek certainly makes a big difference, but if you've already been battered, then tapped out to cast him only to see an immmediate path, you might never get to use those 4 shiny new cards. For that reason I'd be tempted to go with a full playset of All Is Dust, and at least a couple of DoJ. But I haven't actually tried the deck (yet!).
Good work, and I'll try not to copy you this time!
W/R could work, but it would feel a bit of a crowbar to me. It would just be the usual suspects from white (Battlegrace, O Ring, Wall of Rev, Transcendent Master) and then Red good stuff. I can't think of anything red which naturally dovetails with the theme. Maybe Kor Firewalker + Pyroclasms as mini one sided sweeper with small amounts of lifegain. But I didn't look at it very closely, so I'm probably missing stuff.
Yes, Day of J would work in the Selesnya deck, but I'm always dubious of it in a creature deck that doesn't feature indestructibility, regen or recursion. Often it would hurt you as much as your opponent, although gaining 5 or more off the Shepherd would be a nice filip.
This is great.. I'm so much more excited about Classic than about Legacy. Someone needs to start up some Classic PREs so we can actually play some tournaments with these cards more than just once a week.
I agree completely, and I'm man enough to admit this isn't my best work. It was born out of anxiety, frustration OMFGTHEWORLDSGONNAENDism. Had I given myself another week after the news I could have contributed more. Sigh...
flippers- its unrestricted right now, besides the fact that its grossly over powered, the format is not in a possition to fully abuse it. having 4x grim monolith surely helps, but missing solo moxen keeps it from being a moot point. I would feel safe in picking up a pset for 20. In fact i did when i didnt even need to buy 1 since it will be in ftv relics. However its just not gonna do much with out outside help. they wont pull the rug out from under you. Jar will have to prove its broken first. However. if randy beuler gets his hands on this then were all screwed. Any one who happens to see this and knows Randey, please tell him that a random magic player from the interwebs dares him to break classic with this card. Would be so cool to see what he does with it in the format.
linto- The stax decks are there so that i could showcase the big 3, and not just the 2 i had cards for after getting. Although i agree with the smashing of the merfolk, the format may have started to evolve past them with the monoliths. And about led. I think it would work. maybe not as a 4 of but ive seen xkorpio killing it with led jar.
justsin- glad you likea da stax, you can thank my clanmate for that bit.
with the opening heading you get a 5 and that holds as I read on, but its sooo short I expected there to be so much more to this so you lost a few points there, good stuff I just wanted more
don't take this wrong, but like you're presenting a deck as classic and legacy and really it's just a casual deck that fits those requirements and isn't really geared one way or the other, then throw out two matches with no real conclusion and a list that's not much different from the former, not trying to be discouraging, but sorry I am one of those who are getting frustrated by articles like this
It depends on exactly which version of Dragonstorm you're referring to. I would assume the 2006 version incarnations run by a number of pros for the (Standard) World Championship, most notably Makahito Mihara. The core win-condition is the same, but the draw engine is updated with more current cards and is arguably a bit more streamlined/efficient as a result. Otherwise you're correct, it isn't that different, I think that ultimately the fundamentals of that original deck are very strong and would have been a solid rogue choice in Extended (RIP).
*copycat*... wait, what? No I didn't say anything... *cough*
No, but really, I enjoyed your White/Black version of this deck. It's pretty fun. For some reason it reminded me of Underworld Dreams and Megrim.
And why didn't you try W/R? That could work if you ask me ...
Isnt that deck almost exactly the same as dragonstorm from a few years ago? Fetchlands and a karthus do not make it a different deck, so what does, if anything?
yeah siege-gang commander has gone down in price. But Sphinx of the Lost Truths of jwar sphinx can take it's places and those are way cheaper than SGC. And try to get some consuming vapors that card will save you so many times against RDW, NLB, Mono G Eldrazi or atleast buy you enough time to stabilize again.
First of all, I'm not claiming that this is my deck, nor I'm not advertising it to be super powerful. I'm just a type of person that gets quickly excited over one thing. And it's true, it can beat any deck. Yet, not always. Just as any decks. Of course Mythic can kill you on turn 4. Of course, RDW can too. But there is "can" in that sentence, not "will". I sad this Eldrazi deck can put an Eldrazi in play turn 5, but it can also get mana screwed and don't play it at all.
And your making me sound like I wanted to prove to everyone that this deck is unbeatable and super powerful and nothing can beat it. No, I didn't say that, but in my eyes (and apparently my luck) he has about the same winning chance as Jund in competitive tournament.
That's me. Not you.
Thanks
like i said in the article. grim is THE chase card in the set and i wouldnt be surprised to see it shoot up to low 30's after the release weeks.
Yep, I made sure to mention that.
To claim a deck beats everything in the current standard environment is sheer ignorance. While it does draw attention to your deck there are better ways to do that other than making blatantly false statements. False advertising has always been a pet peeve of mine.
I do like the idea of the deck, but I think it's better suited for block, since well all the cards in you 75 are block legal and there aren't Jund or Mythic decks in block. You claimed turn 5+ Kozileks and Ulamogs, but Mythic can easily kill you on 4, and postboard can have negate backup the entire game. Similarly Jund is a monster for a reason, and the G/W Eldrazi deck can't fight off Blightning or Maelstrom Pulse very effectively.
This is not to mention the various combo decks that don't care about your giant guy and will just kill you anyways, since you have zero spot removal in the W/G deck and are thus drawing dead to Polymorph decks or Lotus Cobra starts from Turboland.
Great article, well written and flavorful, but don't advertise your deck as so much better than it actually is next time.
Honestly, this card is way better than it gets credit for. I think simply not being as good as SoLoMoxen and being banned in Legacy for so long has left everyone with the impression it's nothing special - Kind of like Chrome Mox - useful in a list here or there but inherently not that good.
Grim is nuts. I can see it making a big splash in legacy when it gets unbanned on the 14th (for whatever reason they are waiting for that)
Cool article. I went 2-1 in that event with my Birds deck (I was 1 topdeck away from beating a Cheating Eldrazi dec. If you see me in game, gimme a challenge, I'd like to play against that dec.
I have been running these lists in the Tournament Practice room for a little over half a week and have had problems with the zoo, goblins, and merfolk matchup.
Duplicant's and Jester's cap have been underwhelming thus far. Pithing Needles would have definitely been in my board, but I only owned two (and its either 3-4 in the board or zero in my opinion).
After some testing against Dredge, I realized that needles are not needed that much in the matchup. The Crypts are enough to handle their onslaught while you assemble trinisphere/sphere of resistance on the board.
Merfolk was a big problem. Ensnaring bridge is not as good against them as I initially had thought. Turn 1 Aether vial is definitely problems and think pithing needle is the perfect solution for that.
I have slowly been considering adding White to the mix for enlightened tutor/ghostly prison for the creature based decks. This deck lacks good answers for goblins and merfolk.
The classic list is better than the legacy list due to grim monolith. I do not think the deck is competitive enough in legacy until grim monolith is unbanned.
Very cool. I pay so little attention to std lately that Explosive Revelation completely slipped by me. I should try it in my Exploding Squids deck.
Timspiral block and tenth will only leave when scars of mirroding enters. Until then those sets will still be legal in extended.
Brilliant, LE - three decks for the price of one! I'm a sucker for mono white, so am intrigued by your first deck. They all look good though. And the Ascension combo deck from your game 3 opponent with your fish deck look interesting too - you looked dead in the water there (small pun intended).
Very nice article indeed. You didn't mention Naya Vengevine in the matchups section, I'd guess they'd be fast enough to cause you problems too?
I like the idea of powering out early Eldrazi, but always assumed it wouldn't go beyond tier 1.5 at most as besides Emrakul, they're quite open to removal. Drawing 4 off Kozilek certainly makes a big difference, but if you've already been battered, then tapped out to cast him only to see an immmediate path, you might never get to use those 4 shiny new cards. For that reason I'd be tempted to go with a full playset of All Is Dust, and at least a couple of DoJ. But I haven't actually tried the deck (yet!).
Good work, and I'll try not to copy you this time!
W/R could work, but it would feel a bit of a crowbar to me. It would just be the usual suspects from white (Battlegrace, O Ring, Wall of Rev, Transcendent Master) and then Red good stuff. I can't think of anything red which naturally dovetails with the theme. Maybe Kor Firewalker + Pyroclasms as mini one sided sweeper with small amounts of lifegain. But I didn't look at it very closely, so I'm probably missing stuff.
Yes, Day of J would work in the Selesnya deck, but I'm always dubious of it in a creature deck that doesn't feature indestructibility, regen or recursion. Often it would hurt you as much as your opponent, although gaining 5 or more off the Shepherd would be a nice filip.
Now I'm off to copy Klemzo's latest article...
This is great.. I'm so much more excited about Classic than about Legacy. Someone needs to start up some Classic PREs so we can actually play some tournaments with these cards more than just once a week.
I agree completely, and I'm man enough to admit this isn't my best work. It was born out of anxiety, frustration OMFGTHEWORLDSGONNAENDism. Had I given myself another week after the news I could have contributed more. Sigh...
Regardless, thanks for the input!
flippers- its unrestricted right now, besides the fact that its grossly over powered, the format is not in a possition to fully abuse it. having 4x grim monolith surely helps, but missing solo moxen keeps it from being a moot point. I would feel safe in picking up a pset for 20. In fact i did when i didnt even need to buy 1 since it will be in ftv relics. However its just not gonna do much with out outside help. they wont pull the rug out from under you. Jar will have to prove its broken first. However. if randy beuler gets his hands on this then were all screwed. Any one who happens to see this and knows Randey, please tell him that a random magic player from the interwebs dares him to break classic with this card. Would be so cool to see what he does with it in the format.
linto- The stax decks are there so that i could showcase the big 3, and not just the 2 i had cards for after getting. Although i agree with the smashing of the merfolk, the format may have started to evolve past them with the monoliths. And about led. I think it would work. maybe not as a 4 of but ive seen xkorpio killing it with led jar.
justsin- glad you likea da stax, you can thank my clanmate for that bit.
is that mono red stax? that's all I needed to see to know this article was full of awesome
with the opening heading you get a 5 and that holds as I read on, but its sooo short I expected there to be so much more to this so you lost a few points there, good stuff I just wanted more
don't take this wrong, but like you're presenting a deck as classic and legacy and really it's just a casual deck that fits those requirements and isn't really geared one way or the other, then throw out two matches with no real conclusion and a list that's not much different from the former, not trying to be discouraging, but sorry I am one of those who are getting frustrated by articles like this
but my playing beyond red and still seeing it doesn't make me happy :P
It depends on exactly which version of Dragonstorm you're referring to. I would assume the 2006 version incarnations run by a number of pros for the (Standard) World Championship, most notably Makahito Mihara. The core win-condition is the same, but the draw engine is updated with more current cards and is arguably a bit more streamlined/efficient as a result. Otherwise you're correct, it isn't that different, I think that ultimately the fundamentals of that original deck are very strong and would have been a solid rogue choice in Extended (RIP).
Thanks for the tips, I will definitely keep both in mind in the future.
A Day of judgement or two in the Selesnya Felidar deck would work too. Combos well with the Mycoid Shepherd.
*copycat*... wait, what? No I didn't say anything... *cough*
No, but really, I enjoyed your White/Black version of this deck. It's pretty fun. For some reason it reminded me of Underworld Dreams and Megrim.
And why didn't you try W/R? That could work if you ask me ...
Anyway, nice article :)
Isnt that deck almost exactly the same as dragonstorm from a few years ago? Fetchlands and a karthus do not make it a different deck, so what does, if anything?
yeah siege-gang commander has gone down in price. But Sphinx of the Lost Truths of jwar sphinx can take it's places and those are way cheaper than SGC. And try to get some consuming vapors that card will save you so many times against RDW, NLB, Mono G Eldrazi or atleast buy you enough time to stabilize again.