In mono colored decks wellspring seems to be better overall, the acceleration of sphere only can be truely consistanly effective against UB control. Sphere also comes with a big draw back in that it has a limited amount of uses where as the land you gain is not (likely) going anywhere. you are on the draw against birthing pod.dek You play sphere and then they play corrupter. you lose a card and tempo. Same scenario, but you play wellspring. They might not play corrupter because it doesnt have a good target and that if they do you will gain another land.
While a number of other factors may determine which one is better in a given game, the call will largely be determined by what else you deck is playing, and the match up you are expecting to play against.
As always, i enjoyed the article. Its a great jumping off point for brewing for block. I am loving the new decks that are popping up in the meta as it shifts and jockys. I did notice UB control is missing from most daily winners. I did a bit of testing with a ub control deck with just a few NPH additions and it never lost to birthing pod, and had at least a 50/50 against TS so i am not sure where that puts us. it deffinately seems like it would have trouble against the burn builds we have been seeing lately. If burn becomes a dominate strategy it seems like mono black might be poised to take a share of the meta since it has so many difficult to deal with threats that mono red cant fight through. Just some random musings on what i am noticing in block in general.
GREAT article! thanks again for all your hard work!
that's my very basic of all basic. You know me paul, im not spending 40? on stoneforge mystic lol. Normally i either win from activating the holy relic or with the battlecry on a bunch of fliers. Also Kor Outfitter gets switched out for Porcelain Leggionaire like 50% of the time.
Also, In frank karsten's original WW/Holy Relic deck he also eschewed Stoneforge Mystic. Though he ran steppe lynx in the Outfitter/Legionnaire slot. I just dont have the fetches to take advantage of that.
How can UB be your favorite color combination, but yet you know very little about the UB Control list?
I ran UB Control at SCG Indy and the main reason for it's demise was Squadron Hawks. Most UB lists at the time ran minimal removal and while it could battle the equipments, it couldn't win well against the resilent Hawks.
As hawks start to fade away, I think UB becomes more viable except for what you mentioned (Batterskull).
UB has to find a way to deal with it.
I think you hit the nail on the head with most of the standard decks. There are always janky things running around like Knights and Elves.
I have a love/hate relationship with Tezz also.
Here is the list I've been working on utilizing him.
the most basic of all basic Holy Relics in monowhite
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Glint Hawk
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Kor Outifitter
4 Kor Skyfisher
3 Squadron Hawk
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
2 Argentum Armor
4 Contested Warzone
19 Plains
Its not very good in standard, but can be a blast at like FNM or in casual games
first i must say that u did a great job on all the decks and your insight on these decks, but i must say i almost feel like that STD is a lot like when ALA block was legal if your not playing caw or twin your chances are very low to win, and on a second note i think its become harder to win with a rouge deck. great job though
Sabberlod is just a douche -- anybody who has played against him will tell you that...he definitely doesn't represent the community as a whole.
Also, like others have mentioned, running strip mine in a deck that needs two islands in play to function is awful, even if you're running crucible. Wasteland is a classic/legacy staple...but that doesn't mean it goes in every classic/legacy deck.
Tel-Jilad Stylus would be perfect. It completely skips the middle step of having to go to the graveyard, which is pretty sweet. I would probably take out Phyrexian Vault for it. Feldon's Cane is another good option as well.
My first draft of the deck had Reiterate and Wild Ricochet. I thought that with the mana doublers I would have an easy time of holding these guys, but I was wrong. The deck is definitely mana hungry, and I was never holding much back.
Mirrorworks is definitely worth a shot. There are a ton of artifacts, and although having an extra copy of Ashnod's Altar wouldn't be all that exciting, and extra Sword or mana rock would be nice.
I remember when I first found Mask of Memories when I got back into Magic and thinking it was a pretty sweet card. It is definitely worth a look as a budget option instead of Sword of Fire and Ice. Draw and sifting isn't bad.
The deck is still pretty budget and it is pretty fun. You could probably cut it down to 60 or 70 tickets with a little bit of work. And definitely add Caged Sun!
Seem like this deck could use Tel-Jilad Stylus. A cheap one card dragon reload seems pretty good.
I love seeing Junktroller in your deck. It is my all time favorite GY hate card. Everybody forgets about him. I can't tell you the number of times I have had other players try and make a big recursion only to have my silly wall stop them cold.
Personally, I never run my mono red decks without a few fork effect cards in it. You deck looks pretty mana hungry, so maybe you can't keep the mana open. Being able to piggyback on other playes tutors, ramp and card draw can really make up for some of red's natural weakneses though. And if you get your own copy of someone elses game breaker, so much the better.
Budget wise did you consider Mask of Memories over the SoFI? Sure mask is not as good overall, but on pure card draw it is arguably better. It is also easier on mana costs, in addition to the pocketbook.
Feldon's Cane is another way of getting your graveyard back into your deck. Another card I would suggest with all those artifacts is Mirrorworks. I have it in a Brion Stoutarm deck with a high number of mana artifacts, equipment, and other artifacts (many of the same ones you have in this deck) and I'm never sorry to draw it. It's nice to get an extra sol ring for free, but getting 2 Gauntlets or Extraplanar Lenses is amazing. Oh, and I know this was built before NPH, but Caged Sun would be a worthy addition as well.
Mono red typically doesn't do all that well, but this was very powerful. And it looked like you had a blast playing it. At least when you weren't up against 3 Mazes if Ith.
And I'd still consider this a budget deck. To me a budget deck may still have some expensive cards in it, but the expensive cards are those that are very utilitarian and can be used in almost all decks. Even if you are a budget player, it's useful to spend a little extra money to pick up things like Strip Mine or a sword or two.
I feel very vindicated and comforted that WOTC invited so many of the people I recommended. :D More power to the customer service page! :D I am sad that both Heath and AJ could not make it but I am glad they were invited. Next year Keya I hope you are.
I have been enjoying the testing and discussions in /join CCC. I hope even more people start showing up after the downtime today. AJ has been making some insane decks for the team and I hope they actually decide to use some of them or tweak them. I've been posting lists on the threads on the mothership and running test decks vs the CC members but mine aren't nearly as good.
Keya, really? Proxying Psychatog to Finkle? Ouch. I mean I love the wizard but there is no comparison in strength lol.
Re: the vampire commander for 7cmc. Not only is it a beatstick and a quick end to the game if it sticks but it enables recursion like no one's business. So it is really just sick all around.
"The rules interactions were very complex, and the deck had more potential for screwing up a play than anything else I have seen. My friend Chris Browning made "Play of the Week" on Wizard's Sideboard site with the following play. The only problem was that the play was illegal. Can you spot the two problems?
Chris was playing Full English Breakfast against a Counterslivers deck that had Worship and Crystalline Sliver in play. Chris cast the Shapeshifter with Hellion atop the graveyard, attacked with the Shapeshifter/Hellion, stacked the pumps and Survivaled Dreadnought for Elvish Lyrist. Then, with lethal damage on the stack, he Survivaled away the Lyrist, then sacrificed the Lyrist to kill the Worship and won the game.
The next week, Sideboard ran a retraction. The play does not work. First, once the Shapeshifter is no longer a Hellion, it no longer has haste, so the tap part of tap, sac for Elvish Lyrist is not possible. More importantly, the eleven +1/-1 effects remain in effect until end of turn, so once the Shapeshifter became a Lyrist, it was a 12/0 Lyrist, and should have died to state based effects before it could be sacrificed. However, neither Chris, his opponent, his friend (who sent the play to the Week in Review writer), that writer, nor the Sideboard editor noticed these problems. Like I said, this was a tricky deck." Peter Jahn (Circa 2005) Starcitygames.com
Man this deck was painful to play against. Very very slick with all kinds of versatile responses to various decks. It was fun playing against you but I am glad this deck is no longer your favorite pet. :D
Where's the sixth fireball? This is without a doubt the most definitive article on the Standard Pauper metagame for the Mirrodin Besieged season. I'm more apt to share this one than the ones I've written myself! Well done!
You are one lucky fellow. Ingrid seems to put up with a lot. Not lending her your FOWs? Showing these videos? As I say, lucky fellow. :D
Typically I do not watch videos posted on here but I was curious since Full English Breakfast came out right before I stopped playing and Mr Barclay was a bit of a hero of mine at the time. Also I normally do not listen to them with the volume up since some people seem to think it fun to put on music as a background track which makes me batty if I don't like the music. But it was interesting hearing you discuss the decks/plays.
In mono colored decks wellspring seems to be better overall, the acceleration of sphere only can be truely consistanly effective against UB control. Sphere also comes with a big draw back in that it has a limited amount of uses where as the land you gain is not (likely) going anywhere. you are on the draw against birthing pod.dek You play sphere and then they play corrupter. you lose a card and tempo. Same scenario, but you play wellspring. They might not play corrupter because it doesnt have a good target and that if they do you will gain another land.
While a number of other factors may determine which one is better in a given game, the call will largely be determined by what else you deck is playing, and the match up you are expecting to play against.
As always, i enjoyed the article. Its a great jumping off point for brewing for block. I am loving the new decks that are popping up in the meta as it shifts and jockys. I did notice UB control is missing from most daily winners. I did a bit of testing with a ub control deck with just a few NPH additions and it never lost to birthing pod, and had at least a 50/50 against TS so i am not sure where that puts us. it deffinately seems like it would have trouble against the burn builds we have been seeing lately. If burn becomes a dominate strategy it seems like mono black might be poised to take a share of the meta since it has so many difficult to deal with threats that mono red cant fight through. Just some random musings on what i am noticing in block in general.
GREAT article! thanks again for all your hard work!
thanks
that's my very basic of all basic. You know me paul, im not spending 40? on stoneforge mystic lol. Normally i either win from activating the holy relic or with the battlecry on a bunch of fliers. Also Kor Outfitter gets switched out for Porcelain Leggionaire like 50% of the time.
Also, In frank karsten's original WW/Holy Relic deck he also eschewed Stoneforge Mystic. Though he ran steppe lynx in the Outfitter/Legionnaire slot. I just dont have the fetches to take advantage of that.
@Valakut: adding Beast Within wouldn't heart I guess.
How can UB be your favorite color combination, but yet you know very little about the UB Control list?
I ran UB Control at SCG Indy and the main reason for it's demise was Squadron Hawks. Most UB lists at the time ran minimal removal and while it could battle the equipments, it couldn't win well against the resilent Hawks.
As hawks start to fade away, I think UB becomes more viable except for what you mentioned (Batterskull).
UB has to find a way to deal with it.
I think you hit the nail on the head with most of the standard decks. There are always janky things running around like Knights and Elves.
I have a love/hate relationship with Tezz also.
Here is the list I've been working on utilizing him.
Lands (24)
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Island
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Swamp
3 Tectonic Edge
Creatures (3)
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Porcelain Legionnaire (I wonder if this shouldn't be Skirge, although 5/5 first strike owns batterskull)
Artifacts (14)
3 Contagion Clasp
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Tumble Magnet
Spells (11)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Divine Offering
Planeswalkers (8)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
Sideboard (15)
2 Duress
2 Revoke Existence
2 Black Sun's Zenith
3 Go for the Throat
2 Despise
1 Praetor's Grasp
3 Spellskite
Doesn't that main variant also carry Stoneforge Mystics?
the most basic of all basic Holy Relics in monowhite
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Glint Hawk
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Kor Outifitter
4 Kor Skyfisher
3 Squadron Hawk
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
2 Argentum Armor
4 Contested Warzone
19 Plains
Its not very good in standard, but can be a blast at like FNM or in casual games
first i must say that u did a great job on all the decks and your insight on these decks, but i must say i almost feel like that STD is a lot like when ALA block was legal if your not playing caw or twin your chances are very low to win, and on a second note i think its become harder to win with a rouge deck. great job though
lol sabberlod...i banned him from updc back when i was running it, dude is such a douche
Sabberlod is just a douche -- anybody who has played against him will tell you that...he definitely doesn't represent the community as a whole.
Also, like others have mentioned, running strip mine in a deck that needs two islands in play to function is awful, even if you're running crucible. Wasteland is a classic/legacy staple...but that doesn't mean it goes in every classic/legacy deck.
Tel-Jilad Stylus would be perfect. It completely skips the middle step of having to go to the graveyard, which is pretty sweet. I would probably take out Phyrexian Vault for it. Feldon's Cane is another good option as well.
My first draft of the deck had Reiterate and Wild Ricochet. I thought that with the mana doublers I would have an easy time of holding these guys, but I was wrong. The deck is definitely mana hungry, and I was never holding much back.
Mirrorworks is definitely worth a shot. There are a ton of artifacts, and although having an extra copy of Ashnod's Altar wouldn't be all that exciting, and extra Sword or mana rock would be nice.
I remember when I first found Mask of Memories when I got back into Magic and thinking it was a pretty sweet card. It is definitely worth a look as a budget option instead of Sword of Fire and Ice. Draw and sifting isn't bad.
The deck is still pretty budget and it is pretty fun. You could probably cut it down to 60 or 70 tickets with a little bit of work. And definitely add Caged Sun!
Seem like this deck could use Tel-Jilad Stylus. A cheap one card dragon reload seems pretty good.
I love seeing Junktroller in your deck. It is my all time favorite GY hate card. Everybody forgets about him. I can't tell you the number of times I have had other players try and make a big recursion only to have my silly wall stop them cold.
Personally, I never run my mono red decks without a few fork effect cards in it. You deck looks pretty mana hungry, so maybe you can't keep the mana open. Being able to piggyback on other playes tutors, ramp and card draw can really make up for some of red's natural weakneses though. And if you get your own copy of someone elses game breaker, so much the better.
Budget wise did you consider Mask of Memories over the SoFI? Sure mask is not as good overall, but on pure card draw it is arguably better. It is also easier on mana costs, in addition to the pocketbook.
Awesome work. I still remember the first time we played in a PE and your thresh just wrecked me with sideboarded Threads.
Feldon's Cane is another way of getting your graveyard back into your deck. Another card I would suggest with all those artifacts is Mirrorworks. I have it in a Brion Stoutarm deck with a high number of mana artifacts, equipment, and other artifacts (many of the same ones you have in this deck) and I'm never sorry to draw it. It's nice to get an extra sol ring for free, but getting 2 Gauntlets or Extraplanar Lenses is amazing. Oh, and I know this was built before NPH, but Caged Sun would be a worthy addition as well.
Yes, it was.
So three errors - one of which took six years to find.
Tricky deck, indeed.
Mono red typically doesn't do all that well, but this was very powerful. And it looked like you had a blast playing it. At least when you weren't up against 3 Mazes if Ith.
And I'd still consider this a budget deck. To me a budget deck may still have some expensive cards in it, but the expensive cards are those that are very utilitarian and can be used in almost all decks. Even if you are a budget player, it's useful to spend a little extra money to pick up things like Strip Mine or a sword or two.
Isn't the Volrath's Shapeshifter (Elvish Lyrist) also tapped from attacking?
I feel very vindicated and comforted that WOTC invited so many of the people I recommended. :D More power to the customer service page! :D I am sad that both Heath and AJ could not make it but I am glad they were invited. Next year Keya I hope you are.
I have been enjoying the testing and discussions in /join CCC. I hope even more people start showing up after the downtime today. AJ has been making some insane decks for the team and I hope they actually decide to use some of them or tweak them. I've been posting lists on the threads on the mothership and running test decks vs the CC members but mine aren't nearly as good.
Keya, really? Proxying Psychatog to Finkle? Ouch. I mean I love the wizard but there is no comparison in strength lol.
Re: the vampire commander for 7cmc. Not only is it a beatstick and a quick end to the game if it sticks but it enables recursion like no one's business. So it is really just sick all around.
"The rules interactions were very complex, and the deck had more potential for screwing up a play than anything else I have seen. My friend Chris Browning made "Play of the Week" on Wizard's Sideboard site with the following play. The only problem was that the play was illegal. Can you spot the two problems?
Chris was playing Full English Breakfast against a Counterslivers deck that had Worship and Crystalline Sliver in play. Chris cast the Shapeshifter with Hellion atop the graveyard, attacked with the Shapeshifter/Hellion, stacked the pumps and Survivaled Dreadnought for Elvish Lyrist. Then, with lethal damage on the stack, he Survivaled away the Lyrist, then sacrificed the Lyrist to kill the Worship and won the game.
The next week, Sideboard ran a retraction. The play does not work. First, once the Shapeshifter is no longer a Hellion, it no longer has haste, so the tap part of tap, sac for Elvish Lyrist is not possible. More importantly, the eleven +1/-1 effects remain in effect until end of turn, so once the Shapeshifter became a Lyrist, it was a 12/0 Lyrist, and should have died to state based effects before it could be sacrificed. However, neither Chris, his opponent, his friend (who sent the play to the Week in Review writer), that writer, nor the Sideboard editor noticed these problems. Like I said, this was a tricky deck." Peter Jahn (Circa 2005) Starcitygames.com
Man this deck was painful to play against. Very very slick with all kinds of versatile responses to various decks. It was fun playing against you but I am glad this deck is no longer your favorite pet. :D
Where's the sixth fireball? This is without a doubt the most definitive article on the Standard Pauper metagame for the Mirrodin Besieged season. I'm more apt to share this one than the ones I've written myself! Well done!
Loved the deck, loved the videos! Good job as usual! It's nice to finally see something that can beat down CawBlade so effectively.
(** Details later)
Details?
You are one lucky fellow. Ingrid seems to put up with a lot. Not lending her your FOWs? Showing these videos? As I say, lucky fellow. :D
Typically I do not watch videos posted on here but I was curious since Full English Breakfast came out right before I stopped playing and Mr Barclay was a bit of a hero of mine at the time. Also I normally do not listen to them with the volume up since some people seem to think it fun to put on music as a background track which makes me batty if I don't like the music. But it was interesting hearing you discuss the decks/plays.
Interesting deck, Thanks