Hey Whiffy. A heart felt congratulations to you. I am sure you will do the community proud. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story. Sorry to hear about the strife you have endured. Sounds like life is on the up and up. Have a good w/e m8!
Good article.
I am not at all surprised that std attendance has been dropping. It has become by far the most boring format to play, and the format with the least variance.
Gitaxian Probe if finally teaching people the valuable lesson of why it is important to play with matching lands/art. I've won the second tournament today with it, VERY relaxing feeling knowing what your opp has, or is pretending to have...
First, I was referring to the Chain Reaction, which you seemed to dismiss out of hand based on mana cost ("late-game card"). You do need to scale mana costs in 4bs but it's more as a percentage of total mana - you'll have a hard time casting Iona because it requires nearly all of your mana sources.
It seems like you gave up on the second pool a little early - honestly, load up the RG build and run it a few times against other 30-carders, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
In 4bs, it's VERY difficult to get the kind of synergy you're looking for from the first deck, and the only ally that is actually important is the Ranger (which will often come last). It's a great thought, but difficult to impossible to execute in this pool. Your initial read is correct: allies needs something out of the ordinary to make it a central focus (note that it's generally correct, however, to look for small synergies within cards you would always play - more on this later).
However, you had a VERY solid UB evasion deck in pool 1 - a few blue fliers, the Swarm, plus some decent stuff to hold the ground/gain tempo (Banisher shines in this sort of deck). You can even run the black ally to pump the Raptor and provide a little help on its own (it's a workable body).
Just the nature of 4bs makes 90% of pools look like crap - if you don't open something busted to pull you into one color, you're definitely going to be counting playables. That's how the format works. I'd say to do that first - count playables, and don't give up. I think the UB list had a MUCH better shot at 3-1'ing than the allies concoction.
The only Legacy Deck I can think that you didn't mention was Dream Halls. It had a short and I mean very short reign, but was a deck I loved to play online.
Dream Halls
By Jonas Harbili
1st Place, Day 6 Legacy at German Magic 1, January 2 2010
Lands: 17
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
Creatures: 5
1 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Progenitus
Instants: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
Sorceries: 19
4 Conflux
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Thoughtseize
Artifacts and Enchantments: 8
4 Dream Halls
3 Lotus Petal
A fine RG build with the splash for the judgment would be a really good deck.
Your guys were already a little above the average on the status, join the pump spells and would be 2 for 1 all night...
Maybe not a winner, but a tough contender.
Really it was George that suprises me if I was a betting man I would have my house on it being Zach. We do positvely rant about Shop too though - refernce to its diversity (three types of shop decks in the money of one event) and we all gushed at the power of Metalwork into Staff of Domination. Still the out-take I expected to cause more "offence" than the Jerk-shop comment.
First of all I'd like to apoligize for the duplicate paragraph; I had to rewrite some parts of the article a couple of times and I tried to edit it not to lose the pagination and the pics, but it seems I failed miserably :( Sorry. Also don't really know what happened with the double and triple space between paragraphs, in the edit panel I saw it just fine...
Now onto the comments: thank you both for your comments. Before answering just a foreword: I don't usually splash like that but, as stated in the description, those were really terrible pools.
What TwoHands is saying is true, I didn't have much experience with both the 4bs sealed and ZZWW formats, especially in the colors I used in these two attempts. I also almost never played allies before that (I used to try it in the drafts only if I opened cards like the blademaster, the talus paladin or the ranger).
As for the black splash in the first sealed I obviously didn't do it for the quality of the cards but because they were both allies. Since the ranger (without fixing) is a late ally I thought I needed a bigger number of allies to make sure I could activate his ability at least once.
I may have been blinded by the success of the day before but I really thought that synergy was strong there. Also for the 5-drop vs. 4-drop argument I think it needs a bit of context. The 5 drop in the first pool was very good and it would fit in the general synergy of the deck; also it was the main reason I tried to play allies so... As for the 4 drop in the second pool, ehm, I tried re-reading the deck building part of that tournament but I'm not sure about which card you're referring to, is the roughrider?
The second pool, I considered straight RG but I thought white gave me a little more evasion and therefore could have been better than RG, the only problem was that it didn't have enough playables to go GW and I added a very weak splash to compensate (honestly I thought I already lost just browsing at the pool).
As for the mana base of 2nd pool I think it's not as bad as it may seem especially due to the Pilgrim's Eye that act like a 7th forest; anyway I can't really talk about it because I drew it only once and was able to cast it even without the pilgrim's eye.
>_< I like you guys and I love this podcast, but "the jerks who play it [Shop decks]". C'mon. I know you guys love your blue decks, but I think you're slightly unfair towards Shop decks and their pilots. Just because someone plays a prison deck in Classic, doesn't make them a jerk. I know you didn't mean it that way (did you?), but it came across as pretty damn harsh. Shops shrinking in the second quarter was obviously because of the ebb and flow of the meta where Fish decks nudged them out then Oath decks nudging out Fish decks. It seems like this is a format of musical chairs. As you guys said, there are 4 viable deck pillars: Shops, Bazaar, Force of Will and LED. They all have a chance to win and no one is a jerk for bringing any of them. This is meant to be Magic at its most competitive, and so "jerk" doesn't really apply in an environment where you guys are nitpicking deck lists for optimization to gain an inch of advantage to pull out a victory.
Thanks for the welcome Paul! I'm obviously a little rusty as AnimalWedding's many great neglected Cunning Wish targets can attest to. It's a good point that the wishes aren't fair game for all formats - since I almost exclusively play Classic, I can get a bit myopic when it comes to other formats. This was actually a good reminder to get back into Commander - thanks!
I loved the cartoon photos, well done there. You forgot to point out that the RDW list was from us buying 4x Fire/Lightning Decks, which really for $100 you can put together a paper RDW Legacy list or at least get a good start on one shy of the fetch lands.
BTW, I'm the guy in the top left of that marvel image!
Hey Nik welcome back to Pure. Seems like pretty sound advice. Wishes aren't always an option (Tribal Wars for example) but in most formats they are (Commander is a sneaky one since usually people don't bother with Sideboards for Commander but they are legal and the wishes are legal as well.)
You label Goblin Roughrider as "sketchy" then splash it, along with the Geopede that absolutely positively wants to be played turn 2? It seems like you're having difficulty adapting to both ZZWW and also the 30-card format.
In the second pool, straight RG gives you 17 playables curving up to 5, with only minor chaff. It has a decent curve, and a reset in Chain Reaction. It also allows you to play 7 or 8 forests if you insist on the Leatherback. Just a markedly better decision than running Kitesail Apprentice with 2 equipments that you don't want to hang around the board, etc.
Additionally, while the first pool certainly isn't great, you actually have 9 black playables - when you only need 16/17 cards, that's actually a solid starting point. Dismissing it out of hand was a mistake. I agree that synergy > not, but there wasn't enough there to make it work - also, pushing for synergy with a 5-drop in pool 1 then claiming a 4-drop is "too late" in pool 2 is pretty weak.
Encroach isn't bad when you're facing off vs Orchards, Shops and Bazaars on the play only. She is always trying something new in her decks. Seize is rough with the amount of Fish aggro around. Oh, And Cat Weasel is probably the best female magic player in the world(at least I would bet on it). Her limited rating is insane too.
On a more serious note, this article is pretty excellent and should be required reading for any new deck builder looking to get an edge. Glittering Wish in particular was something that I had an obsession with when I started out on MTGO and with the (relatively) recent Alara sets, it's gotten significantly more useful than the day it came out. However, I think you may have omitted many of the optimal choices available, particularly for Cunning Wish.
I've found the two best cards for spot removing artifacts/enchants are Dismantling Blow and Krosan Grip (Orim's Thunder comes in a close third). Many times someone will drop something dangerous like an Oblivion Stone or Sensei's Divining Top and they'll let Cunning Wish resolve only to discover that hey it's Krosan Grip, and no they can't do anything about it because here comes the pain train at split second. Dismantling Blow, of course, nabs cards so it's always good.
For life gain, Pulse of the Fields is going to take my pick for MVP. Beacon is a hefty 6 mana, not always cast-able the moment you need it, and it also relies on the assumption that you already have a pretty respectable life total. Pulse lets you come from behind (not sexually), not once, but as many times as you need until you draw into your answer. I've used it alongside Glacial Chasm to great effect.
Either Fact or Fiction or Gifts Ungiven gets my choice for card draw.
Twincast (or Redirect) is great to fetch against big burn spells.
Blue has Evacuation for instant speed creature removal that also ignores toughness, and I tend to run that over Starstorm (especially since red is usually out of my colors). Evacuation also works amazingly with "enter the battlefield" creatures like Mulldrifter or Scrivener.
As for random win conditions, I've definitely gotten Natural Affinity in long games for the final swing.
Anyway, great article like I said, and I'm eagerly awaiting your next installment.
Hey Whiffy. A heart felt congratulations to you. I am sure you will do the community proud. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story. Sorry to hear about the strife you have endured. Sounds like life is on the up and up. Have a good w/e m8!
Good article.
I am not at all surprised that std attendance has been dropping. It has become by far the most boring format to play, and the format with the least variance.
Gitaxian Probe if finally teaching people the valuable lesson of why it is important to play with matching lands/art. I've won the second tournament today with it, VERY relaxing feeling knowing what your opp has, or is pretending to have...
Of note I declared victory at the end of the video unfortunately I had only won one game. I came back to lose to heavy mana flood game 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyS5bz2JQPw&feature=player_profilepage
First, I was referring to the Chain Reaction, which you seemed to dismiss out of hand based on mana cost ("late-game card"). You do need to scale mana costs in 4bs but it's more as a percentage of total mana - you'll have a hard time casting Iona because it requires nearly all of your mana sources.
It seems like you gave up on the second pool a little early - honestly, load up the RG build and run it a few times against other 30-carders, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
In 4bs, it's VERY difficult to get the kind of synergy you're looking for from the first deck, and the only ally that is actually important is the Ranger (which will often come last). It's a great thought, but difficult to impossible to execute in this pool. Your initial read is correct: allies needs something out of the ordinary to make it a central focus (note that it's generally correct, however, to look for small synergies within cards you would always play - more on this later).
However, you had a VERY solid UB evasion deck in pool 1 - a few blue fliers, the Swarm, plus some decent stuff to hold the ground/gain tempo (Banisher shines in this sort of deck). You can even run the black ally to pump the Raptor and provide a little help on its own (it's a workable body).
Just the nature of 4bs makes 90% of pools look like crap - if you don't open something busted to pull you into one color, you're definitely going to be counting playables. That's how the format works. I'd say to do that first - count playables, and don't give up. I think the UB list had a MUCH better shot at 3-1'ing than the allies concoction.
Thanks for the article!
The only Legacy Deck I can think that you didn't mention was Dream Halls. It had a short and I mean very short reign, but was a deck I loved to play online.
Dream Halls
By Jonas Harbili
1st Place, Day 6 Legacy at German Magic 1, January 2 2010
Lands: 17
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
Creatures: 5
1 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Progenitus
Instants: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
Sorceries: 19
4 Conflux
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Thoughtseize
Artifacts and Enchantments: 8
4 Dream Halls
3 Lotus Petal
Sideboard: 15
1 Hydroblast
2 Meditate
1 Rushing River
4 Spell Pierce
2 Duress
3 Propaganda
2 Pithing Needle
No, no, no, that outtake was 100% pure win. =D In the words of a frustrated 4chaner: MOAR!! ;oP
A fine RG build with the splash for the judgment would be a really good deck.
Your guys were already a little above the average on the status, join the pump spells and would be 2 for 1 all night...
Maybe not a winner, but a tough contender.
Really it was George that suprises me if I was a betting man I would have my house on it being Zach. We do positvely rant about Shop too though - refernce to its diversity (three types of shop decks in the money of one event) and we all gushed at the power of Metalwork into Staff of Domination. Still the out-take I expected to cause more "offence" than the Jerk-shop comment.
You did say Jerks.
First of all I'd like to apoligize for the duplicate paragraph; I had to rewrite some parts of the article a couple of times and I tried to edit it not to lose the pagination and the pics, but it seems I failed miserably :( Sorry. Also don't really know what happened with the double and triple space between paragraphs, in the edit panel I saw it just fine...
Now onto the comments: thank you both for your comments. Before answering just a foreword: I don't usually splash like that but, as stated in the description, those were really terrible pools.
What TwoHands is saying is true, I didn't have much experience with both the 4bs sealed and ZZWW formats, especially in the colors I used in these two attempts. I also almost never played allies before that (I used to try it in the drafts only if I opened cards like the blademaster, the talus paladin or the ranger).
As for the black splash in the first sealed I obviously didn't do it for the quality of the cards but because they were both allies. Since the ranger (without fixing) is a late ally I thought I needed a bigger number of allies to make sure I could activate his ability at least once.
I may have been blinded by the success of the day before but I really thought that synergy was strong there. Also for the 5-drop vs. 4-drop argument I think it needs a bit of context. The 5 drop in the first pool was very good and it would fit in the general synergy of the deck; also it was the main reason I tried to play allies so... As for the 4 drop in the second pool, ehm, I tried re-reading the deck building part of that tournament but I'm not sure about which card you're referring to, is the roughrider?
The second pool, I considered straight RG but I thought white gave me a little more evasion and therefore could have been better than RG, the only problem was that it didn't have enough playables to go GW and I added a very weak splash to compensate (honestly I thought I already lost just browsing at the pool).
As for the mana base of 2nd pool I think it's not as bad as it may seem especially due to the Pilgrim's Eye that act like a 7th forest; anyway I can't really talk about it because I drew it only once and was able to cast it even without the pilgrim's eye.
Again, thank you very much for the comments.
uhm.. you guys is a little broad, pretty sure i never said they were jerks, and did you not hear us gushing about the staff build? we all loved it!
>_< I like you guys and I love this podcast, but "the jerks who play it [Shop decks]". C'mon. I know you guys love your blue decks, but I think you're slightly unfair towards Shop decks and their pilots. Just because someone plays a prison deck in Classic, doesn't make them a jerk. I know you didn't mean it that way (did you?), but it came across as pretty damn harsh. Shops shrinking in the second quarter was obviously because of the ebb and flow of the meta where Fish decks nudged them out then Oath decks nudging out Fish decks. It seems like this is a format of musical chairs. As you guys said, there are 4 viable deck pillars: Shops, Bazaar, Force of Will and LED. They all have a chance to win and no one is a jerk for bringing any of them. This is meant to be Magic at its most competitive, and so "jerk" doesn't really apply in an environment where you guys are nitpicking deck lists for optimization to gain an inch of advantage to pull out a victory.
Thanks for the welcome Paul! I'm obviously a little rusty as AnimalWedding's many great neglected Cunning Wish targets can attest to. It's a good point that the wishes aren't fair game for all formats - since I almost exclusively play Classic, I can get a bit myopic when it comes to other formats. This was actually a good reminder to get back into Commander - thanks!
Whiffy I sent you a boards PM.
Congrats on making the CCC this year.
I loved the cartoon photos, well done there. You forgot to point out that the RDW list was from us buying 4x Fire/Lightning Decks, which really for $100 you can put together a paper RDW Legacy list or at least get a good start on one shy of the fetch lands.
BTW, I'm the guy in the top left of that marvel image!
Yours is an inspiring journey, keep it up!!
Hey man, haven't been writing anywhere lately. Maybe I'll try it again someday.
Anyone know if there is a way to donate if you work during those hours every day?
Hey Nik welcome back to Pure. Seems like pretty sound advice. Wishes aren't always an option (Tribal Wars for example) but in most formats they are (Commander is a sneaky one since usually people don't bother with Sideboards for Commander but they are legal and the wishes are legal as well.)
I suggest you guys should hang out at /join CCC as the team did year 1 (though not year 2 for some reason.)
A common meeting room is essential. You could probably ask Customer Service to pass it along via email.
You label Goblin Roughrider as "sketchy" then splash it, along with the Geopede that absolutely positively wants to be played turn 2? It seems like you're having difficulty adapting to both ZZWW and also the 30-card format.
In the second pool, straight RG gives you 17 playables curving up to 5, with only minor chaff. It has a decent curve, and a reset in Chain Reaction. It also allows you to play 7 or 8 forests if you insist on the Leatherback. Just a markedly better decision than running Kitesail Apprentice with 2 equipments that you don't want to hang around the board, etc.
Additionally, while the first pool certainly isn't great, you actually have 9 black playables - when you only need 16/17 cards, that's actually a solid starting point. Dismissing it out of hand was a mistake. I agree that synergy > not, but there wasn't enough there to make it work - also, pushing for synergy with a 5-drop in pool 1 then claiming a 4-drop is "too late" in pool 2 is pretty weak.
Encroach isn't bad when you're facing off vs Orchards, Shops and Bazaars on the play only. She is always trying something new in her decks. Seize is rough with the amount of Fish aggro around. Oh, And Cat Weasel is probably the best female magic player in the world(at least I would bet on it). Her limited rating is insane too.
On a more serious note, this article is pretty excellent and should be required reading for any new deck builder looking to get an edge. Glittering Wish in particular was something that I had an obsession with when I started out on MTGO and with the (relatively) recent Alara sets, it's gotten significantly more useful than the day it came out. However, I think you may have omitted many of the optimal choices available, particularly for Cunning Wish.
I've found the two best cards for spot removing artifacts/enchants are Dismantling Blow and Krosan Grip (Orim's Thunder comes in a close third). Many times someone will drop something dangerous like an Oblivion Stone or Sensei's Divining Top and they'll let Cunning Wish resolve only to discover that hey it's Krosan Grip, and no they can't do anything about it because here comes the pain train at split second. Dismantling Blow, of course, nabs cards so it's always good.
For life gain, Pulse of the Fields is going to take my pick for MVP. Beacon is a hefty 6 mana, not always cast-able the moment you need it, and it also relies on the assumption that you already have a pretty respectable life total. Pulse lets you come from behind (not sexually), not once, but as many times as you need until you draw into your answer. I've used it alongside Glacial Chasm to great effect.
Either Fact or Fiction or Gifts Ungiven gets my choice for card draw.
Twincast (or Redirect) is great to fetch against big burn spells.
Blue has Evacuation for instant speed creature removal that also ignores toughness, and I tend to run that over Starstorm (especially since red is usually out of my colors). Evacuation also works amazingly with "enter the battlefield" creatures like Mulldrifter or Scrivener.
As for random win conditions, I've definitely gotten Natural Affinity in long games for the final swing.
Anyway, great article like I said, and I'm eagerly awaiting your next installment.