If someone is going to post on NPHx3, they'd better do it quick. This format has about the lifespan of the mayfly surge here in Cleveland. My take so far - it's fairly slow, poison is weak (since it makes the plentiful lifeloss cards stronger, in part), and black is the strongest color.
Pete has indeed been doing a great job with this column. I appreciate his dedication and the time he puts into providing this information for the rest of us.
I agree completely that mythics discourages me from busting packs, and even playing formats like NPHx3. It seems like if you don't open a mythic, your cards have just turned into worthless paper, which is a common and depressing experience. I've never enjoyed gambling, and this adds a bit too much of a lottery aspect to the games for my tastes. I've also quit trying to collect sets online since redemption is a losing game with mythics, which has further depressed my drive to open packs in drafts. The only thing that keeps me going is that the limited formats are pretty interesting, though less so during the release periods, as these follow-up sets are not really intended for stand alone play. It is also a bit frustrating to lose so many random games to folks opening a savage bomb like batterskull. Opening crap is depressing, but seeing someone else open $$ and then beat you over the head with it is even more depressing.
This was a great article! It was very thorough and thought out.
I agree with your assessment of Survival being better than Fauna Shaman, but find it ironic that Dark Confidant is better than Dark Tutelage because the former is a creature. I guess it all depends on the situation and the particular effect.
I agree with Jacobs, article is very very helpful. I played the mono red list you posted last time for a 3-1 Daily, and at least a 60% win rate in the 2 man que.
I do think someone needs to post NPHx3 draft theory. I need some color analysis, and meta picking too. Nobody has an article on this.
The article was written on Monday and the deck has gone through some changes since then. I will be ditching the ratchet bombs quickly and will probably be looking at the explosives. Last night I lost to Combo EIves and Goblins with a Ratchet bomb at 0 counters. Needless to say it proved its ineffectiveness.
I was able to get rid of a lot of bulk uncommons and rares irl so I am now the proud owner of 3 Tarmogoyfs. Ironically I just got a Batterskull so I upped the count of Stoneforges to 4 and dropped the Tarmogoyfs to 2.
I almost got a deed last night, but my tickets are getting quite low. If this configuration works out I may sell one 'goyf and then find a way to scrape the rest needed for two deeds.
Paul:
Thanks for the comment. I have been playing since Ice Age and at one time had a huge amount of Legacy staples irl. It feels good playing with the old cards again.
I do hope something is done about standard as I have now seen some lists that combine Cawblade and Splinter twin. Dreadful.
I agree with the Mythic Lottery editorial. I like playing sealed and I do okay, but after only opening 1 mythic in all my packs I'll buy only the cards I want from MTGOtraders. When I compare that to MED4 that had no mythics I was able to get some good rares from opening packs and therefore played in a lot more events.
As MMogg said, MM is somewhat lacklustre against the main decks you are likely to face in a classic DE these days. I see it being good in counter wars to stop spell pierces, and stopping hand destruction. It can also play a role as additional mana denial for sol ring and mana vault, and it stops voltaic key. Brainstorm might be worth hitting with it. I'm not saying that there are not uses for the card, there certainly are. I simply said that I ran 3 copies, and found that in that tournament it was not as good as had been hyped. I intend to keep playing it and will adjust my usage over time as I develop a better feel for the card and when it is great and when it is dead.
Small correction by the way. The prize for anyone who logs into MTGO during June 15 - June 17 (during the community cup) is that they will receive free entry to a planewalker tournament. If they show up to the tournament, they get a pack of M11. If they go 4-0 in a swiss 4 round tournament, they win their choice of any 3 packs on MTGO. Interestingly enough the tournament is swiss, but it might as well be single elimination because once you join your get your pack, and once you lose you won't get anything else.
No disrespect intended whatsoever towards Erik's work over the years... I would like to say that I have enjoyed the State of the Program articles more as presented by you, Pete. Thanks for your hard work and dedication to keep us all informed.
An interesting read, though I have no intentions of ever going competitive in Legacy. It seems like there is a dearth of such articles that really get into how people convert what they have into what they need. So good job on filling a niche. :D
Glad to see more people joining Eternal formats :)
I fully advocate your choices for a deck to shoot for, after I sold out the last few times I always come back to my darling FoWs, and as per usual I advocate getting 4. Sadly I do believe their price is at a ceiling currently, so you may want to wait a month and save this month's fow budget and see if it goes down to 115 - 100 or so.
The ironic part of reading this for me is I just got my mystics (For LEGACY :P), so it was funny seeing the other side. Keep your foray into legacy coming, I liked the article.
One small piece of advice would be to ditch the ratchet bombs, they are horrible in legacy. I think you should be looking at Engineered explosives as a cheap (er) alternative to deed, but you should buy deeds :)
I have been playing Paulo's Deedstill deck and have been very much liking the results.
To anyone else scratching there head. Nobel fish is a vintage archtype that abuses selkie and null rod. Fish has long been a term to describe 2/2 hate bears, ie gadock teeg, meddling mage, etc etc, in the vintage format.
Just a wee bit of specific format related jargon.
hey pete, is there anyway that in the future you can sort the decks costs by format, ie.
> and, no, I don't know why it was called Venquer Masques
The original deck was actually nicknamed "Vengeur Masqué" by French players of the time who invented it (Canu etc). It's French for "Masked Avenger", the name is probably taken from Zorro.
You see, Dreadnought is the avenger, and he is wearing an Illusionary Mask so people don't recognize him :D
Keep the guests on comin'... not that we don't love the cast members. =) I'm guessing xkorpio's English isn't up to the level to be on the cast? Maybe you guys could do an e-mail/written interview some time and include that in the cast/notes/article of the cast. xkorpio is one badass of Classic: he's active and innovative and good. I'd love to hear more of his insights into the format.
I agree with Andy (I find I usually agree with Andy) that there is so little creature kill (compared to like Legacy) to make Hermit Druid decks viable.
Lastly:
Timmins: "you should have another beer. It's really helping." LMAO Zach *did* seem to have an even greater drawl than normal. =p
Mental Misstep is really not that great in Classic. The four main decks in Classic are Workshops, Oath, Dredge and Storm. Shops have zero 1cc cards other than possibly Sol Ring and Mana Vault (wooptie do); Oath has some 1cc cards, but not the most important one (Oath) or their typical acceleration into Oath (Lotus Petal); Dredge it could be ok against stopping Cabal Therapy... once (aside: I remember playing Belcher on the play vs. Dredge... before I got my first turn the Dredge player thrice Cabal Therapied me!!); Storm it's pretty good against, but Storm is a small part of the meta and there are other better cards against it.
Legacy is the main format where all the pros are going ape shit over it and it IS good there. Unlike Classic, a lot of format-defining cards are in the 1cc slot.
Bubba visited with KKFI DJ’s Tomas Tomas and Dan the Man on their Fiesta Musical program. The interview was aired shortly before LSV’s first trip to Kansas City and gave the Vato’s a nice way to introduce themselves to people there. usb flash drive
Having all the decklists is pretty sweet. Also no problems with sound differences between speakers this time around I don't think which was real nice. Sounds like you guys aren't that thrilled with Mental Misstep, though from the pros playing in paper eternal formats it seems like its been pretty insane for them, being able to dump it with JTMS or pitch to FOW or Brainstorm away is pretty nice and there are just so many powerful 1cc cards in the format that you dont want to have to use a whole force on.
I remember you guys talking a lot about how good beast within was going to be or how it was the most exciting new card. Do you still think its good? Maybe in oath since you'll oath out something that makes the 3/3 irrelevant anyway? 3 mana in this format seems like a lot though for a card that doesn't proactively win you the game very often.
Xkorpio also had a "bye" from the burn player who targeted xkorpio with a Chain Lightning instead of the Hermit Druid. Oops!
People have been complaining about uneven draft payouts, we all need to get 3 Urza's Saga packs from the Planeswalker tournament.
Those certainly are good decks, but there are so many more right now that are gaining in popularity... Red, Valakut, Elves, Hawkless Stoneforge, non-Stoneforge UW Control, UB, Twinless RUG, Goblins, etc. There've even been a few Immolating Souleater decks that did well online recently.
By nature of playing rogue decks, your overall power level will usually be a good deal lower than most of the field. It's always been the primary disadvantage of doing so. The primary draw is the informational and positional advantage that those who play lesser known decks benefit from. It's much harder to sideboard against a deck when you are unfamiliar with their list, or are lacking appropriate sideboard options.
I think both the pyromancers ascension as well as the Rdw should run both combust and dismember 2/3 SB, combust bypasses spellskite and also hits BSA / sworded birds with pro black. Sworded firewalkers are still a problem
If someone is going to post on NPHx3, they'd better do it quick. This format has about the lifespan of the mayfly surge here in Cleveland. My take so far - it's fairly slow, poison is weak (since it makes the plentiful lifeloss cards stronger, in part), and black is the strongest color.
Pete has indeed been doing a great job with this column. I appreciate his dedication and the time he puts into providing this information for the rest of us.
I agree completely that mythics discourages me from busting packs, and even playing formats like NPHx3. It seems like if you don't open a mythic, your cards have just turned into worthless paper, which is a common and depressing experience. I've never enjoyed gambling, and this adds a bit too much of a lottery aspect to the games for my tastes. I've also quit trying to collect sets online since redemption is a losing game with mythics, which has further depressed my drive to open packs in drafts. The only thing that keeps me going is that the limited formats are pretty interesting, though less so during the release periods, as these follow-up sets are not really intended for stand alone play. It is also a bit frustrating to lose so many random games to folks opening a savage bomb like batterskull. Opening crap is depressing, but seeing someone else open $$ and then beat you over the head with it is even more depressing.
This was a great article! It was very thorough and thought out.
I agree with your assessment of Survival being better than Fauna Shaman, but find it ironic that Dark Confidant is better than Dark Tutelage because the former is a creature. I guess it all depends on the situation and the particular effect.
I agree with Jacobs, article is very very helpful. I played the mono red list you posted last time for a 3-1 Daily, and at least a 60% win rate in the 2 man que.
I do think someone needs to post NPHx3 draft theory. I need some color analysis, and meta picking too. Nobody has an article on this.
Country Hillbilly:
The article was written on Monday and the deck has gone through some changes since then. I will be ditching the ratchet bombs quickly and will probably be looking at the explosives. Last night I lost to Combo EIves and Goblins with a Ratchet bomb at 0 counters. Needless to say it proved its ineffectiveness.
I was able to get rid of a lot of bulk uncommons and rares irl so I am now the proud owner of 3 Tarmogoyfs. Ironically I just got a Batterskull so I upped the count of Stoneforges to 4 and dropped the Tarmogoyfs to 2.
I almost got a deed last night, but my tickets are getting quite low. If this configuration works out I may sell one 'goyf and then find a way to scrape the rest needed for two deeds.
Paul:
Thanks for the comment. I have been playing since Ice Age and at one time had a huge amount of Legacy staples irl. It feels good playing with the old cards again.
I do hope something is done about standard as I have now seen some lists that combine Cawblade and Splinter twin. Dreadful.
Thanks
I agree with the Mythic Lottery editorial. I like playing sealed and I do okay, but after only opening 1 mythic in all my packs I'll buy only the cards I want from MTGOtraders. When I compare that to MED4 that had no mythics I was able to get some good rares from opening packs and therefore played in a lot more events.
As MMogg said, MM is somewhat lacklustre against the main decks you are likely to face in a classic DE these days. I see it being good in counter wars to stop spell pierces, and stopping hand destruction. It can also play a role as additional mana denial for sol ring and mana vault, and it stops voltaic key. Brainstorm might be worth hitting with it. I'm not saying that there are not uses for the card, there certainly are. I simply said that I ran 3 copies, and found that in that tournament it was not as good as had been hyped. I intend to keep playing it and will adjust my usage over time as I develop a better feel for the card and when it is great and when it is dead.
Small correction by the way. The prize for anyone who logs into MTGO during June 15 - June 17 (during the community cup) is that they will receive free entry to a planewalker tournament. If they show up to the tournament, they get a pack of M11. If they go 4-0 in a swiss 4 round tournament, they win their choice of any 3 packs on MTGO. Interestingly enough the tournament is swiss, but it might as well be single elimination because once you join your get your pack, and once you lose you won't get anything else.
No disrespect intended whatsoever towards Erik's work over the years... I would like to say that I have enjoyed the State of the Program articles more as presented by you, Pete. Thanks for your hard work and dedication to keep us all informed.
An interesting read, though I have no intentions of ever going competitive in Legacy. It seems like there is a dearth of such articles that really get into how people convert what they have into what they need. So good job on filling a niche. :D
Hi Don,
Glad to see more people joining Eternal formats :)
I fully advocate your choices for a deck to shoot for, after I sold out the last few times I always come back to my darling FoWs, and as per usual I advocate getting 4. Sadly I do believe their price is at a ceiling currently, so you may want to wait a month and save this month's fow budget and see if it goes down to 115 - 100 or so.
The ironic part of reading this for me is I just got my mystics (For LEGACY :P), so it was funny seeing the other side. Keep your foray into legacy coming, I liked the article.
One small piece of advice would be to ditch the ratchet bombs, they are horrible in legacy. I think you should be looking at Engineered explosives as a cheap (er) alternative to deed, but you should buy deeds :)
I have been playing Paulo's Deedstill deck and have been very much liking the results.
Best,
Zach
To anyone else scratching there head. Nobel fish is a vintage archtype that abuses selkie and null rod. Fish has long been a term to describe 2/2 hate bears, ie gadock teeg, meddling mage, etc etc, in the vintage format.
Just a wee bit of specific format related jargon.
hey pete, is there anyway that in the future you can sort the decks costs by format, ie.
std
std
std
leg
leg
leg
cla
cla
cla
> and, no, I don't know why it was called Venquer Masques
The original deck was actually nicknamed "Vengeur Masqué" by French players of the time who invented it (Canu etc). It's French for "Masked Avenger", the name is probably taken from Zorro.
You see, Dreadnought is the avenger, and he is wearing an Illusionary Mask so people don't recognize him :D
If it included a brief synopsis of what you discussed in the podcast - maybe make it teaser-like to entice people to listen
Keep the guests on comin'... not that we don't love the cast members. =) I'm guessing xkorpio's English isn't up to the level to be on the cast? Maybe you guys could do an e-mail/written interview some time and include that in the cast/notes/article of the cast. xkorpio is one badass of Classic: he's active and innovative and good. I'd love to hear more of his insights into the format.
I agree with Andy (I find I usually agree with Andy) that there is so little creature kill (compared to like Legacy) to make Hermit Druid decks viable.
Lastly:
Timmins: "you should have another beer. It's really helping." LMAO Zach *did* seem to have an even greater drawl than normal. =p
Mental Misstep is really not that great in Classic. The four main decks in Classic are Workshops, Oath, Dredge and Storm. Shops have zero 1cc cards other than possibly Sol Ring and Mana Vault (wooptie do); Oath has some 1cc cards, but not the most important one (Oath) or their typical acceleration into Oath (Lotus Petal); Dredge it could be ok against stopping Cabal Therapy... once (aside: I remember playing Belcher on the play vs. Dredge... before I got my first turn the Dredge player thrice Cabal Therapied me!!); Storm it's pretty good against, but Storm is a small part of the meta and there are other better cards against it.
Legacy is the main format where all the pros are going ape shit over it and it IS good there. Unlike Classic, a lot of format-defining cards are in the 1cc slot.
Bubba visited with KKFI DJ’s Tomas Tomas and Dan the Man on their Fiesta Musical program. The interview was aired shortly before LSV’s first trip to Kansas City and gave the Vato’s a nice way to introduce themselves to people there. usb flash drive
Having all the decklists is pretty sweet. Also no problems with sound differences between speakers this time around I don't think which was real nice. Sounds like you guys aren't that thrilled with Mental Misstep, though from the pros playing in paper eternal formats it seems like its been pretty insane for them, being able to dump it with JTMS or pitch to FOW or Brainstorm away is pretty nice and there are just so many powerful 1cc cards in the format that you dont want to have to use a whole force on.
I remember you guys talking a lot about how good beast within was going to be or how it was the most exciting new card. Do you still think its good? Maybe in oath since you'll oath out something that makes the 3/3 irrelevant anyway? 3 mana in this format seems like a lot though for a card that doesn't proactively win you the game very often.
lol youre most definitely right, im meeting with my playgroup tonight, so ill be seeing if i can grab any.
edit: nevermind
Xkorpio also had a "bye" from the burn player who targeted xkorpio with a Chain Lightning instead of the Hermit Druid. Oops!
People have been complaining about uneven draft payouts, we all need to get 3 Urza's Saga packs from the Planeswalker tournament.
i thought Paul Barclay was the rules manager for Wizards? what happened to him, is he still around?
Thanks C., but I just can't wait to read your article! The abstract you talked me about was awesome. :-)
I appreciate the compliments.
Those certainly are good decks, but there are so many more right now that are gaining in popularity... Red, Valakut, Elves, Hawkless Stoneforge, non-Stoneforge UW Control, UB, Twinless RUG, Goblins, etc. There've even been a few Immolating Souleater decks that did well online recently.
By nature of playing rogue decks, your overall power level will usually be a good deal lower than most of the field. It's always been the primary disadvantage of doing so. The primary draw is the informational and positional advantage that those who play lesser known decks benefit from. It's much harder to sideboard against a deck when you are unfamiliar with their list, or are lacking appropriate sideboard options.
You might want to upgrade somewhat! No reason to run Outfitter anymore, Paladin is strictly better in Quest.
I think both the pyromancers ascension as well as the Rdw should run both combust and dismember 2/3 SB, combust bypasses spellskite and also hits BSA / sworded birds with pro black. Sworded firewalkers are still a problem