Isn't green's share of the pie pretty 'meh' as well?
Lifegain and overcosted creatures were greens wheelhouse for about the first 2/3rds of magic and that wasn't exactly tearing up tournaments. The did have a mana acceleration but I would think that would at least be equivalent to white's historical removal. Though, I will give you that green has gotten lots better in recent history and most green nowadays is much, much better than anything white that comes out now.
I can def see your argument for white being at the bottom of the barrel. Quite frankly, I think a reasonable claim could be made for every color except blue.
I like this question a lot because it shows how people evaluate the game in ways different from you. I never thought to examine the cards based on function and see how each color stacks up. You certainly make an interesting point.
I didn't really consider white when I look at it because UW control and WW have historical record of success at different times in magic's history (Worlds, Nats, etc.), but they way you look at it has some good points.
I say "hi gl hf :)" no matter what deck I'm playing. :) I try to avoid out and out copying net decks because usually such decks aren't fun for me. That said I'd still say it if I was bringing copied Netdecks. Why not? If they aren't going to have fun that isn't on me, and why shouldn't I wish them luck? Besides I know you aren't concerned about facing unfun decks. You enjoy the game regardless.
I wasn't talking about Brazil being the minor leagues, I was talking about club teams being minor leagues for the clubs with money like Real Madrid, Barca, Manchester U, Manchester C, etc.. The clubs with the money.
The national team is very good. I am a huge HUGE fan of Maicon. He is one of my favorite D-Backs, and has one of the sickest shots I have seen from a defensive player ever.
And for the WC they have an insane front line, and their players are huge. And for once I won't have to wake up at 7am to watch WC games. The games will be on during prime time.
But be honest, you tell me what South American player doesn't dream of playing for RMFC or Barca?
And the EPL has a ton of billionaire owners. Although I heard Chelsea went after a 19 year old Brazilian but he turned down Europe to stay in the Brazilian league. I just don't remember the name or the player.
It's just sad that we have the MLS. It's a joke here. We get the players that are too old for the Europe, and they dominate here (Cough Cough Henry Cough Cough).
**Btw your voice sounds oddly just like someone who makes draft videos for MTGOAcademy... Haha.
It's hard to get real money for tix with the poker accounts all shut down. I also find it risky since you give up the tickets and then expect someone to give you money for them instead of a straight trade.
I was thinking about putting about $300 in a PayPal account and trading tix for approx. 0.95 per ticket, but I don't know if that will lead to a high enough profit. I am just trying to find a way around getting tix without having to pay $0.075 in tax per USD.
And Moron or not, I take things personally, but that money is mine. It's from my facebook account. And do you think when you have a large amount of money you don't take a pic of it? It's kind of something cool that makes a nice background.
But my problem with all formats that are not STD is the lack of variations. More people playing means more variations on decks so you hopefully won't run into the same thing over and over and over. I like variation, and I like new decks. I hate when someone sees a decklist and copies it card for card. But what is also good about STD is that even if someone copies a deck card for card, they might not be good enough to play it correctly. That is why a Delver deck can beat a Ramp Run deck. While Classic/Legacy players are small but good enough to take a decklist and play it the way it's supposed to be played. It doesn't allow for much variation.
And my biggest problem with Classic/Modern/Legacy is the payout. Since these cards are more expensive, and the decks are more expensive, you don't get a good enough payout. I mean packs of M12 for a deck that costs you $4-500? It doesn't add up for me.
I would have no problem with Classic or Modern if the payout was worth it, but it isn't. Since I draft and have a playset of everything in STD (except damn Primeval Titans, never opened more than 1), making the deck doesn't really cost me anything, and the payout ends up making up for the deck and let's me draft more.
My problem isn't with the format, it's the payout. Not to mention they should release more sets to make the formats more accessible. Release Alliances so FOW goes down in price. Or keep the ME sets coming, but even then it's not worth it because there are so few cards worth it in the set.
I think if the cards were more available I think more people would be interested, but in the end, monetarily, it's just not worth it.
Red? Are you crazy? Sure some of their cards look weak in a vacuum, if you compare lightning bolt to its equivalent from beta Ancestral Recall, sure it's weak. But since its reprinting in M10, lightning bolt is one of if not the most played card in standard, and modern, and is a staple in many legacy archetypes.
But red decks have always been competitive in every format since the beginning of time. Whether you call them Burn, RDW, Sligh, Goblins, Kuldotha red, or Atog Affinity, mono (or almost all mono) red decks stalk the metagame of every format since competitive Magic's beginning. Sure you can think of mono white or mono green or mono black decks that have occasionally been competitive, perhaps during Lorwyn or Onslaught block, but red is always a contender and often a winner.
I think the worst color is red. It's simply the least versatile color.
A while ago, ChannelFireball made a series of Top 8 videos for each color, and red clearly came out as the worst there. Blue and black are certainly top dogs, but both white and green had their fair share of broken cards in that list - while red had to settle for things like Lightning Bolt.
I also throw my hat in for white being the worst color. historically everything white was best at is now gone.
weeinies? hello nacatal and goblin guide.
removal, dismember says high to stp and pte. and now wog dosent even gaurentee kill anything cause they can regenerate to see another judgment.
artifact/enchant removal, thats greens bag.
big nasty creatures? well baneslayer was the last great hope and she has been dethroned by titans.
really the only thing white has on any color is armageddon, but that card will never see the light of comp play again, barring silly legacy decks.
so removal, draw, weeines, fatties, tricks, all get a failing grade, while mass land removal is the only thing going for white atm.
i know this looks like a "cuurent" worst color, but for someone whos played magic for the last million years, white has histroically been at the bottom of the curve, discounting stp, wog, and geddon. thats the way i see it anyway.
yea my 1st 3-0 draft was a gw isd, its good stuff. ur commentary is good. ur accent when you say vampire interloper is fun. i wish i had an accent then people would say "where are you from?" instead of "why are you here?"
European leagues generally have more money involved, and feature more international players. This is both because of richer clubs in general, richer supporters, and more lax rules regarding foreign players.
Still, South American leagues are very much not minor leagues - they feed Copa Libertadores, whose winners have historically gone on to face the European champions on the Club World Cup.
The worst color in magic historically has always been white. White's share of the color pie is just flat-out weaker than everyone else's.
Generally peaking symmetrical effects suck (Balance aside), lifegain is generally useless, Taxing is an easily played around mechanic, and the one thing white used to do best--efficient low cost creatures and bomb high cost ones--is now done better by several other colors because of power creep. Heck, I don't even think a WW 3/3 protection first striker could make white weenie creatures playable, and back in the day that would have been absurd.
pinpoint and mass removal is really the only thing is does well anymore, and even black's removal is catching up.
No, because that's a classic set and I thought that me talking about a classic set instead of you guys would be... uhm... inappropriate?
I actually played those cards in paper, own most of them still and know all of them, but still didn't want to do a Classic set review.
My 'My Dark Ascension' article will of course come when all the cards are spoiled.
Grandpoobah sadly I don't play paper Magic anymore (at least not at FNM level), so I cannot do a FNM report. Since years I'm investing in the digital cards (heavily I might add) and sadly that means that I cannot buy their paper counterparts (that would require a serious budget).
But why not a TNMO report, right? I will think about that, thanks for the idea.
Hey, nice article, I like to see how you develop the ideas as you add the more expensive cards. However, you need to do follow up articles with FNM tournaments reports, detailing how the "FNM ready" deck performed. Also, you should take the final "no limitation" deck through a DE and give us at least a summary of how it did. Don't need turn by turn report there--the article is called Casual to FNM not casual to DE after all; however you may have an easier time making videos on MTGO than taking notes to give accurate reports from an FNM.
HI,
Nice videos. I do miss the audio, but thanks for posting what you can and nice editing indeed.
Maybe the swiss are better players than 4322 as they actually have a better payout?
It will be true that Decks have become important components of the modern home, especially when it comes to remodel or bringing in a new home addition. Deck Builders Virginia
It will be true that a well presented, and well kept basement completes the perfect home package for a lot of home buyers. Deck Builders Northern Virginia
Hey Mike,
I'm a loyal Pauper to the People listener and have really appreciated the tech you've brought to the podcast. I'm the new goblin player Chris tried to convince you wasn't a Mikey K hater. Anyways, great videos and good play tips. I've been thinking of throwing Goblin Gaveleer in along with an equipment package, Bonesplitter along with the previously mentioned Sylvok Lifestaff. Seems good if it connects, but it complicates the draw. There are times you want to draw a burn spell instead of a piece of equipment. Any thoughts?
I'm interested if anyone has a link to a reputable buyer of mtgo tix - to convert to real-world $.
I played M.masques sealed...fun stuff, got crap and lost right away, but I did get and sell a tanglewire for more than the tourney cost! Good times. Fun to see daze/invigorate all the time now...
alternate is definitely a moron....but he is right in some ways.
Classic has trouble firing 2 events a week. Its not a successful tourney format. It is a success for casual games though. Classic fires as many, or close to as many, in the casual games room as standard does.
The difference between the huge numbers of people playing classic casually and the very few playing in tourneys can be attributed to a couple things:
1)cost. (tourney)Classic is a ridiculously expensive format. No arguing that. Yes, its mostly a one time purchase, unlike standard. But that one time purchase could buy you a used car.
2)amount of fun. Casual classic games are dominated by tribal/aggro strategies. Tourney classic games are dominated by combo/prison strategies. Yes there is aggro (hatebears, fish/merfolk), but even the aggro decks are half prison, half aggro. Having tons of LD and Counterspells played in the format does not make it enticing for most either.
Isn't green's share of the pie pretty 'meh' as well?
Lifegain and overcosted creatures were greens wheelhouse for about the first 2/3rds of magic and that wasn't exactly tearing up tournaments. The did have a mana acceleration but I would think that would at least be equivalent to white's historical removal. Though, I will give you that green has gotten lots better in recent history and most green nowadays is much, much better than anything white that comes out now.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks for tuning in.
I can def see your argument for white being at the bottom of the barrel. Quite frankly, I think a reasonable claim could be made for every color except blue.
I like this question a lot because it shows how people evaluate the game in ways different from you. I never thought to examine the cards based on function and see how each color stacks up. You certainly make an interesting point.
I didn't really consider white when I look at it because UW control and WW have historical record of success at different times in magic's history (Worlds, Nats, etc.), but they way you look at it has some good points.
I say "hi gl hf :)" no matter what deck I'm playing. :) I try to avoid out and out copying net decks because usually such decks aren't fun for me. That said I'd still say it if I was bringing copied Netdecks. Why not? If they aren't going to have fun that isn't on me, and why shouldn't I wish them luck? Besides I know you aren't concerned about facing unfun decks. You enjoy the game regardless.
I wasn't talking about Brazil being the minor leagues, I was talking about club teams being minor leagues for the clubs with money like Real Madrid, Barca, Manchester U, Manchester C, etc.. The clubs with the money.
The national team is very good. I am a huge HUGE fan of Maicon. He is one of my favorite D-Backs, and has one of the sickest shots I have seen from a defensive player ever.
And for the WC they have an insane front line, and their players are huge. And for once I won't have to wake up at 7am to watch WC games. The games will be on during prime time.
But be honest, you tell me what South American player doesn't dream of playing for RMFC or Barca?
And the EPL has a ton of billionaire owners. Although I heard Chelsea went after a 19 year old Brazilian but he turned down Europe to stay in the Brazilian league. I just don't remember the name or the player.
It's just sad that we have the MLS. It's a joke here. We get the players that are too old for the Europe, and they dominate here (Cough Cough Henry Cough Cough).
**Btw your voice sounds oddly just like someone who makes draft videos for MTGOAcademy... Haha.
It's hard to get real money for tix with the poker accounts all shut down. I also find it risky since you give up the tickets and then expect someone to give you money for them instead of a straight trade.
I was thinking about putting about $300 in a PayPal account and trading tix for approx. 0.95 per ticket, but I don't know if that will lead to a high enough profit. I am just trying to find a way around getting tix without having to pay $0.075 in tax per USD.
And Moron or not, I take things personally, but that money is mine. It's from my facebook account. And do you think when you have a large amount of money you don't take a pic of it? It's kind of something cool that makes a nice background.
But my problem with all formats that are not STD is the lack of variations. More people playing means more variations on decks so you hopefully won't run into the same thing over and over and over. I like variation, and I like new decks. I hate when someone sees a decklist and copies it card for card. But what is also good about STD is that even if someone copies a deck card for card, they might not be good enough to play it correctly. That is why a Delver deck can beat a Ramp Run deck. While Classic/Legacy players are small but good enough to take a decklist and play it the way it's supposed to be played. It doesn't allow for much variation.
And my biggest problem with Classic/Modern/Legacy is the payout. Since these cards are more expensive, and the decks are more expensive, you don't get a good enough payout. I mean packs of M12 for a deck that costs you $4-500? It doesn't add up for me.
I would have no problem with Classic or Modern if the payout was worth it, but it isn't. Since I draft and have a playset of everything in STD (except damn Primeval Titans, never opened more than 1), making the deck doesn't really cost me anything, and the payout ends up making up for the deck and let's me draft more.
My problem isn't with the format, it's the payout. Not to mention they should release more sets to make the formats more accessible. Release Alliances so FOW goes down in price. Or keep the ME sets coming, but even then it's not worth it because there are so few cards worth it in the set.
I think if the cards were more available I think more people would be interested, but in the end, monetarily, it's just not worth it.
Red? Are you crazy? Sure some of their cards look weak in a vacuum, if you compare lightning bolt to its equivalent from beta Ancestral Recall, sure it's weak. But since its reprinting in M10, lightning bolt is one of if not the most played card in standard, and modern, and is a staple in many legacy archetypes.
But red decks have always been competitive in every format since the beginning of time. Whether you call them Burn, RDW, Sligh, Goblins, Kuldotha red, or Atog Affinity, mono (or almost all mono) red decks stalk the metagame of every format since competitive Magic's beginning. Sure you can think of mono white or mono green or mono black decks that have occasionally been competitive, perhaps during Lorwyn or Onslaught block, but red is always a contender and often a winner.
:)
I think the worst color is red. It's simply the least versatile color.
A while ago, ChannelFireball made a series of Top 8 videos for each color, and red clearly came out as the worst there. Blue and black are certainly top dogs, but both white and green had their fair share of broken cards in that list - while red had to settle for things like Lightning Bolt.
I also throw my hat in for white being the worst color. historically everything white was best at is now gone.
weeinies? hello nacatal and goblin guide.
removal, dismember says high to stp and pte. and now wog dosent even gaurentee kill anything cause they can regenerate to see another judgment.
artifact/enchant removal, thats greens bag.
big nasty creatures? well baneslayer was the last great hope and she has been dethroned by titans.
really the only thing white has on any color is armageddon, but that card will never see the light of comp play again, barring silly legacy decks.
so removal, draw, weeines, fatties, tricks, all get a failing grade, while mass land removal is the only thing going for white atm.
i know this looks like a "cuurent" worst color, but for someone whos played magic for the last million years, white has histroically been at the bottom of the curve, discounting stp, wog, and geddon. thats the way i see it anyway.
yea my 1st 3-0 draft was a gw isd, its good stuff. ur commentary is good. ur accent when you say vampire interloper is fun. i wish i had an accent then people would say "where are you from?" instead of "why are you here?"
European leagues generally have more money involved, and feature more international players. This is both because of richer clubs in general, richer supporters, and more lax rules regarding foreign players.
Still, South American leagues are very much not minor leagues - they feed Copa Libertadores, whose winners have historically gone on to face the European champions on the Club World Cup.
The worst color in magic historically has always been white. White's share of the color pie is just flat-out weaker than everyone else's.
Generally peaking symmetrical effects suck (Balance aside), lifegain is generally useless, Taxing is an easily played around mechanic, and the one thing white used to do best--efficient low cost creatures and bomb high cost ones--is now done better by several other colors because of power creep. Heck, I don't even think a WW 3/3 protection first striker could make white weenie creatures playable, and back in the day that would have been absurd.
pinpoint and mass removal is really the only thing is does well anymore, and even black's removal is catching up.
No, because that's a classic set and I thought that me talking about a classic set instead of you guys would be... uhm... inappropriate?
I actually played those cards in paper, own most of them still and know all of them, but still didn't want to do a Classic set review.
My 'My Dark Ascension' article will of course come when all the cards are spoiled.
Grandpoobah sadly I don't play paper Magic anymore (at least not at FNM level), so I cannot do a FNM report. Since years I'm investing in the digital cards (heavily I might add) and sadly that means that I cannot buy their paper counterparts (that would require a serious budget).
But why not a TNMO report, right? I will think about that, thanks for the idea.
LE
no plans for your set eval article with masques? i like those "my xxx" articles
Hey, nice article, I like to see how you develop the ideas as you add the more expensive cards. However, you need to do follow up articles with FNM tournaments reports, detailing how the "FNM ready" deck performed. Also, you should take the final "no limitation" deck through a DE and give us at least a summary of how it did. Don't need turn by turn report there--the article is called Casual to FNM not casual to DE after all; however you may have an easier time making videos on MTGO than taking notes to give accurate reports from an FNM.
Sorry to say, but you are wrong. We are not a minor league, and i don´t think we are going to win this WC.
Thanks for the videos. I really appreciate your commentary and playing style, I hope to draft a deck that insane soon.
HI,
Nice videos. I do miss the audio, but thanks for posting what you can and nice editing indeed.
Maybe the swiss are better players than 4322 as they actually have a better payout?
http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/index.html Most reputable one I can think of off hand. :D
Also high learning curve. Dredge isn't exactly covered at FNM.
It will be true that Decks have become important components of the modern home, especially when it comes to remodel or bringing in a new home addition. Deck Builders Virginia
It will be true that a well presented, and well kept basement completes the perfect home package for a lot of home buyers. Deck Builders Northern Virginia
Hey Mike,
I'm a loyal Pauper to the People listener and have really appreciated the tech you've brought to the podcast. I'm the new goblin player Chris tried to convince you wasn't a Mikey K hater. Anyways, great videos and good play tips. I've been thinking of throwing Goblin Gaveleer in along with an equipment package, Bonesplitter along with the previously mentioned Sylvok Lifestaff. Seems good if it connects, but it complicates the draw. There are times you want to draw a burn spell instead of a piece of equipment. Any thoughts?
I'm interested if anyone has a link to a reputable buyer of mtgo tix - to convert to real-world $.
I played M.masques sealed...fun stuff, got crap and lost right away, but I did get and sell a tanglewire for more than the tourney cost! Good times. Fun to see daze/invigorate all the time now...
alternate is definitely a moron....but he is right in some ways.
Classic has trouble firing 2 events a week. Its not a successful tourney format. It is a success for casual games though. Classic fires as many, or close to as many, in the casual games room as standard does.
The difference between the huge numbers of people playing classic casually and the very few playing in tourneys can be attributed to a couple things:
1)cost. (tourney)Classic is a ridiculously expensive format. No arguing that. Yes, its mostly a one time purchase, unlike standard. But that one time purchase could buy you a used car.
2)amount of fun. Casual classic games are dominated by tribal/aggro strategies. Tourney classic games are dominated by combo/prison strategies. Yes there is aggro (hatebears, fish/merfolk), but even the aggro decks are half prison, half aggro. Having tons of LD and Counterspells played in the format does not make it enticing for most either.