One thing I've realized in this format is that Lay Waste is quite good. People often cast their echo creatures as soon as they have enough mana, which turns Lay Waste into creature removal. Befoul does the same thing, but that card is obviously good. Also, don't use your Priest of Titania to accelerate into something with echo. You don't want your opponent's Sicken or Shower of Sparks to take out your Priest AND your Winding Wurm.
I have been playing mono-black vamps and wanted to try something a little different so I opted to go the b/r route as well. If you were making a non-budget version what cards would you add/remove? My non-budget version has 4 verdant catacombs instead of the tectonic edges (still not sure I like them in my local meta)but that's the only expensive difference in my build. Also let me know your thoughts on including Vampire Nocturnus.
no there are plenty of viable tribes without resulting to purely ONS/LRW. Sure elves and goblins show up on occasion, but so do angels, spirits, bears, and many others.
I played in a US sealed yesterday and went 0-4. I read this article this morning, adjusted my considerations, and went 4-0. Whilst acknowledging correlation != causation, thanks. :D
After doing a few rounds of testing today, I must say the build isn't optimal. I miss Harabaz Druid and Bloodbraid Elf too much. I also had mana problems all of the time and Colonnades were hardly ever useful (either I had no mana to use them or I didn't even need them). I was also mulliganing a whole lot, maybe it was just bad luck.
I agree with this post. If you wrote the first part of this article before the US events started, I'd find it more enticing to play the format (and other Legacy formats).
For newer players (like me), I find that a lot of my time is focused on learning the new (read: Standard) sets. I never played Saga in paper form, so I already know I'm at a disadvantage to the old-timers. My expected value is MUCH lower than yours due to my inexperience with the format (we can leave my lack of skill out of it...).
However, if I felt like I had a fighting chance due to reading the primer part of this article a week or so ago, I might make a go of it.
That being said, I still like to read your articles b/c of what can be learned from the history lessons.
Finally, on a related point, I think puremtgo.com needs to jump on the bandwagon regarding mouse-over effects for card names. I see some of the other popular sites (including wizards.com) have been doing this for a little while. It's really handy, especially for Legacy articles, to mouse-over a cardname and have the card pop up.
I am with you deluxeicoff. Before any kind of mental activity I find a few minutes of physical excercise great. Before tests for school, chess(yea I play chess), poker. I also like to get a few minute break during long sessions for some exercise be it just a mere walk around.
I often times look at a popular deck and see what a change like this results in, I don't think the allies deck will ever be consistently top of the charts, but I like the options this one brings with a chance to stop the early game wrath
but I gotta say I keep reading these articles and always find myself back at the top wondering what is going on in that picture.....
In general, I will roll with whatever you choose. I rarely have sufficient time to build a deck around a special set of rules and I am loathe to spend tickets on cards for a deck that won't interest me later, but if I have time and a deck that is legal, I will play.
Just to be clear, I think that Spell Pierce is better than Lapse. It is easier to cast being only one mana, and you still get to make other drops for the turn. My main concern was changing the deck (essentially making it less explosive and consistent) to replace green with blue. Do you think it is worth it?
great stuff I liked how you did levels of sloth and there's no way I'd get so slow as to play turboFog lol, but some of those decks are great.. you seem to be getting a lot of value out of BYOS and rightfully so its a great idea.. I thought about the Engery Field deck too, but I went a different (though probably not as good) route and used the Wheel in green for Enchantress
Don't take this wrong, but I feel this is coming a bit late, with the news of the USaga release coming up I eagerly awaited someone to write about card value in limited play, but no one did and now you're down to what 2-3 days left of USaga drafting? I, like you, wanted to grab some rares and bought out 6 drafts worth of packs... now here I am 18 drafts later and haven't bought packs since the original, I've found so much value in RG and while I wasn't always winning the whole getting those packs from second was just as good... I wanted to write up my thoughts, but with the USaga drafts ending so soon there's been so little time and anything I put together early this week wouldn't be put up until after the drafts were gone.. any ways...
That aside it was a good article with some nice points, tbh I'm a little surprised the deck did so well, but I've been playing draft instead so things do change... gotta love Pest + the pro black guys
Congrats to Endless! I can't possibly do the Flip challenge each week (I have a hard enough time showing up :p) as I never have the tickets to just go get whatever I am missing. So C is out for me. A is a good suggestion for some but may exclude people with low amounts of cards. B is my proposal, if you make it monthly and have a site page devoted to the rules (and perhaps prior winning decks and restrictions.)
If I had the packs Id love to US draft. Not sure about Sealed as I tended to not enjoy that as much last decade. But yeah you can get some real misses in US and Bombs can be deceptive.
Wow really? I understood Cao to have a 'shiao' like sound. so Shiao, Shiao. But Koei would get it right imho since they started this whole crazy more than 2 decades ago on the NES (ROT3K)
you could potentially do both A and B, banning tribes and then once a month have a theme and tribes banned during the theme week would be labeled as necessary... for example during the theme week you don't ban the previous weeks winners, but say the theme is mono red you maybe ban goblins so that people have to think outside the box, there is some potential to C, but it can get a little more complicated
After WWK came out, RWU allies was one of the decks I ran through the ringer. The build was surprisngly extremely similar to yours above, so this was kind of a trippy flashback for me. Ultimately, I jumped ship to Naya allies when it was first being developed for two big reasons:
- Shapeshifter can hit hard, but its also very unstable. You covered the reasons why in the article, but I really feel the payoff of this card is not worth those headaches. Essentially, it can't be played with 0 allies out and it mostly can't be played if only 1 ally is out and opponent has mana untapped. Those restrictions are ridiculous for a competitive card. And the payoff we're most likely to get from jumping through those hoops is an extra Freeblade or Blademaster. Survivalist is looking alot better right now.
- You didn't run up against it in these two matches, but the RWU allies vs. Jund matchup is also notably worse than Naya allies vs. Jund. We have a more volatile manabase with RWU and no CA cards maindeck.
Anyways, what did you decide with Ziggurat? I see it in the game recaps, but not in the decklist. Seems like it's addition would help with mana issues, but would likely cause Colannades to be unusable.
One thing I've realized in this format is that Lay Waste is quite good. People often cast their echo creatures as soon as they have enough mana, which turns Lay Waste into creature removal. Befoul does the same thing, but that card is obviously good. Also, don't use your Priest of Titania to accelerate into something with echo. You don't want your opponent's Sicken or Shower of Sparks to take out your Priest AND your Winding Wurm.
Be careful when you play your echo creatures!
I have been playing mono-black vamps and wanted to try something a little different so I opted to go the b/r route as well. If you were making a non-budget version what cards would you add/remove? My non-budget version has 4 verdant catacombs instead of the tectonic edges (still not sure I like them in my local meta)but that's the only expensive difference in my build. Also let me know your thoughts on including Vampire Nocturnus.
It's possible he couldn't have written this earlier because he had to take the time to learn the format himself.
no there are plenty of viable tribes without resulting to purely ONS/LRW. Sure elves and goblins show up on occasion, but so do angels, spirits, bears, and many others.
Many tribes have been brought. There is no gentleman's agreement.
Really? Do Goblins and Elves get played at all, or do people not run them as some sort of gentleman's gesture.
There are no banned tribes in these events.
What are the rules to these events? I assuming some tribes must be banned, or else it would just be ONS/LRW tribes.
I played in a US sealed yesterday and went 0-4. I read this article this morning, adjusted my considerations, and went 4-0. Whilst acknowledging correlation != causation, thanks. :D
After doing a few rounds of testing today, I must say the build isn't optimal. I miss Harabaz Druid and Bloodbraid Elf too much. I also had mana problems all of the time and Colonnades were hardly ever useful (either I had no mana to use them or I didn't even need them). I was also mulliganing a whole lot, maybe it was just bad luck.
I agree with this post. If you wrote the first part of this article before the US events started, I'd find it more enticing to play the format (and other Legacy formats).
For newer players (like me), I find that a lot of my time is focused on learning the new (read: Standard) sets. I never played Saga in paper form, so I already know I'm at a disadvantage to the old-timers. My expected value is MUCH lower than yours due to my inexperience with the format (we can leave my lack of skill out of it...).
However, if I felt like I had a fighting chance due to reading the primer part of this article a week or so ago, I might make a go of it.
That being said, I still like to read your articles b/c of what can be learned from the history lessons.
Finally, on a related point, I think puremtgo.com needs to jump on the bandwagon regarding mouse-over effects for card names. I see some of the other popular sites (including wizards.com) have been doing this for a little while. It's really handy, especially for Legacy articles, to mouse-over a cardname and have the card pop up.
Great. If you have a specific time in mind let me know. We'll work something out.
I am with you deluxeicoff. Before any kind of mental activity I find a few minutes of physical excercise great. Before tests for school, chess(yea I play chess), poker. I also like to get a few minute break during long sessions for some exercise be it just a mere walk around.
I often times look at a popular deck and see what a change like this results in, I don't think the allies deck will ever be consistently top of the charts, but I like the options this one brings with a chance to stop the early game wrath
but I gotta say I keep reading these articles and always find myself back at the top wondering what is going on in that picture.....
In general, I will roll with whatever you choose. I rarely have sufficient time to build a deck around a special set of rules and I am loathe to spend tickets on cards for a deck that won't interest me later, but if I have time and a deck that is legal, I will play.
Just to be clear, I think that Spell Pierce is better than Lapse. It is easier to cast being only one mana, and you still get to make other drops for the turn. My main concern was changing the deck (essentially making it less explosive and consistent) to replace green with blue. Do you think it is worth it?
great stuff I liked how you did levels of sloth and there's no way I'd get so slow as to play turboFog lol, but some of those decks are great.. you seem to be getting a lot of value out of BYOS and rightfully so its a great idea.. I thought about the Engery Field deck too, but I went a different (though probably not as good) route and used the Wheel in green for Enchantress
Don't take this wrong, but I feel this is coming a bit late, with the news of the USaga release coming up I eagerly awaited someone to write about card value in limited play, but no one did and now you're down to what 2-3 days left of USaga drafting? I, like you, wanted to grab some rares and bought out 6 drafts worth of packs... now here I am 18 drafts later and haven't bought packs since the original, I've found so much value in RG and while I wasn't always winning the whole getting those packs from second was just as good... I wanted to write up my thoughts, but with the USaga drafts ending so soon there's been so little time and anything I put together early this week wouldn't be put up until after the drafts were gone.. any ways...
That aside it was a good article with some nice points, tbh I'm a little surprised the deck did so well, but I've been playing draft instead so things do change... gotta love Pest + the pro black guys
Incarnation it is.
Congrats to Endless! I can't possibly do the Flip challenge each week (I have a hard enough time showing up :p) as I never have the tickets to just go get whatever I am missing. So C is out for me. A is a good suggestion for some but may exclude people with low amounts of cards. B is my proposal, if you make it monthly and have a site page devoted to the rules (and perhaps prior winning decks and restrictions.)
You know, you're right, Moaning Well could have easily made elite eight. That's a pretty dumb name, all right.
If I had the packs Id love to US draft. Not sure about Sealed as I tended to not enjoy that as much last decade. But yeah you can get some real misses in US and Bombs can be deceptive.
Wow really? I understood Cao to have a 'shiao' like sound. so Shiao, Shiao. But Koei would get it right imho since they started this whole crazy more than 2 decades ago on the NES (ROT3K)
you could potentially do both A and B, banning tribes and then once a month have a theme and tribes banned during the theme week would be labeled as necessary... for example during the theme week you don't ban the previous weeks winners, but say the theme is mono red you maybe ban goblins so that people have to think outside the box, there is some potential to C, but it can get a little more complicated
After WWK came out, RWU allies was one of the decks I ran through the ringer. The build was surprisngly extremely similar to yours above, so this was kind of a trippy flashback for me. Ultimately, I jumped ship to Naya allies when it was first being developed for two big reasons:
- Shapeshifter can hit hard, but its also very unstable. You covered the reasons why in the article, but I really feel the payoff of this card is not worth those headaches. Essentially, it can't be played with 0 allies out and it mostly can't be played if only 1 ally is out and opponent has mana untapped. Those restrictions are ridiculous for a competitive card. And the payoff we're most likely to get from jumping through those hoops is an extra Freeblade or Blademaster. Survivalist is looking alot better right now.
- You didn't run up against it in these two matches, but the RWU allies vs. Jund matchup is also notably worse than Naya allies vs. Jund. We have a more volatile manabase with RWU and no CA cards maindeck.
Anyways, what did you decide with Ziggurat? I see it in the game recaps, but not in the decklist. Seems like it's addition would help with mana issues, but would likely cause Colannades to be unusable.