What I mean here may have come out a bit mishmashed from my head to screen, as it implies more than I meant it to. I meant to say that Wizards intentionally blocks community organizing and does not provide community resources that work well.
The first part is that they have no chat channel or board in the game that allows for advertisement of PREs (Player run events). They will warn, suspend then ban you for trying(I don't think you can advertize clans or PRLs either (player run leagues). Not allowing spam in certian areas is reasonable, so long as you allow that advertizement in other areas in the game, having to go to boards just kills it. There is no reason for this as the programming involved just means having another tab open or allowing the classified boards to contain it(who scrolls the entire boards without a filter anyway?) to that extent I consider that active, intentional blocking.
Not actually providing good resources is the other side of that, but since theyre as I say actively blocking even the most basic resource (a non-ban-stick forum to advertise in game) this is obviously a road too far for them.
When leagues come out don't expect them to be customizable for players to define themselves, theyre surely going to ensure they cost far more than we would want them to and under their strict control.
It's natural and expected to me for Wizards to act the way to do, I just know that some people think of them as warm and fuzzy just because they're a game company and have some nice people working for them, and I just wanted to emphasize the innate nature of business.
Also I agree that the policies have been short sighted, since in the end I think it cuts down on what could have been greater mtg player base growth, and ya 4322 drafts have been an outrage for a long time.
I just hope this new client is actually worth the wait, and a good product, and a good product for players and not just the MTGO store, I have my doubts.
Very good points about the Piker. I have never analyzed the card that closely. In my original deck, I needed him as a 2-drop. He and the owl we my only 2-drop creatures and this was a flaw that kept me from winning the tournament. I used him as weenie removal, like a Stabbing Pain that can swing for two sometimes. Lightning Bolts were reserved for direct damage almost exclusively, except in emegencies. Let's just say, when I drew the Piker early, I was happy, and those are games that I won. If my deck stabilized at all and I got to five mana in okay shape or even down by a lot I won. With 2x Fire Servant, 2x Lightning Bolt, and 2x Lava Axe, the direct damage wqas the game winner.
I wanted the Blue in the deck more than the Black, and I like the Owl and the Preordain better for getting me to my win conditions. The problem was in my 2 to 3-drop slot. When I took a look and saw that I could fix this by taking out the blue for the black, which had I thought that the redux deck would perform better with a Black Knight and Barony Vampire over the Owl and the Scroll Thief. It would take me longer to get to my answers, but I should have more time with a better board and even have a chance to win more with a more traditional aggro build. That is what I was trying to get at with this deck. The first build was surprisingly good, but I did well mainly because I was up against slower decks. You might be right, though. I guess the whole thing would have been better if I was more solid in either blue or black, It isn't much of a fix, once you take a look at it. If only I had a Teramorphic Expanse or a duel land or two.
Nice podcast - I wish it hadn't been cutoff though.
As for $20 drafts, I think you are paying a premium for early access and another premium for the mythic promo. Whatever Wizards says, it is aware of the impact and health of the secondary market. They do not want a solid mythic to tank in value just because it is a promo.
Now, I think Wurmcoil Engine is slightly better than Sun Titan and the physical card is currently running $12.00 at cape fear games (I use cape fear as the barometer since it has the same owner as mtgotraders). The Sun Titan promo currently clocks in at $3.00 with 0 in stock while the non-promo runs $5.00 on mtgotraders, while the promo/non-promo run 6.99/5.85 at cape fear games with no copies of the non-promo in stock.
So if you consider the prerelease draft as $14 for the draft, $3 for the promo, that leaves a $3 surcharge for early access to the set. I do think that with the drafts the promo Wurmcoil Engine will be released in much greater amounts than the promo Sun Titan.
Don't get too upset about the 20 tix drafts, It's crowd control.
Back before prereleases when WotC would just start all new set events at normal prices and at the same time people would all jump on Magic Online at the same time. This would often lead to server problems and outright crashes. The prereleases separate the interest in the new set into two waves, which cuts down on the stress to the server and avoids those crashes.
If you don't like the 20 tix drafts, just wait for the regular ones to start up.
I am not as anti corp/anti wizas as you seem to be but I agree that they tend to be self centered in their policies but are somewhat lacking in the enlightened self-interest part of that. I am sure there are plenty of people who work there who feel similarly to the disgruntled among us (some of my past acquaintances work there and while I didn't know them intimately I think it is safe to say they would not be happy about the current lack of player-centric policies being avid players themselves.)
On the other hand it IS a business and businesses have to produce a certain amount of net profit to justify their capital. (ie: they have to please their parent corp.) So their decisions are going to be somewhat hamstrung by that. The bottom line is not a myth, particularly in this day and age. It is not enough to merely have a good quarter. They have to have great quarters most of the time. Failure in this area brings disaster for us all.
20 tix for a draft seems outrageous compared to 14 tix but I don't think it is as big a deal for most of us as it sounds. Many of us don't even participate in PRE Release events. Those that do may be more inclined to draft than play Sealed but this is the first time that option has been available. 4-3-2-2 is where the real fail is. I am not certain wizards realizes that 4-3-2-2 is a well known insult among vets. They might not even realize that it is cumbersome to the players as a whole since so many queues fire daily with that payout.
But as many of the voices of reason on the boards said, put your money where your fingers are. And you and I seem to be doing that though in my case I was already there. Bills, Food > M:tg.
Also as per the above announcement (first thing) the client is in theory getting it's long awaited facelift/refactoring soon. When that "soon" ends up being for the majority of us is anyone's guess. Meantime hang tight. Perhaps eventually leagues will be a possibility if the client's upgrade truly is that and not another fiasco that kicks us offline for a couple of years (like last time did to me.)
RE long messages/aka walls of text: These are relatively short posts compared to some. :p I too find it unnecessary to be the soul of brevity for fear I might bore some reader to death. Anyone can read any post or reply they want to and they can avoid any they don't want to read. I certainly do that at times.
I don't see anything trollish in anything you've posted yet. There are bound to be opposing opinions as there are always are. Dissent is the heart of interesting conversation.
I'm glad you're on of those that appreciates nuance and integrity in conversation.
While printing Koth could very well have been out of reaction to complaints that all the red mythics suck I'm sure Wizas were perfectly happy to shore up the weak point in the supply/demand paradigm in standard they've set up to boost booster sales.
Anyone who believed the claims of Wizas spokesholes that claimed that mythics were not just going to be a list of the best cards in each set (I mean sure it's hyperbolic to say they are or will be completely since there are going to be plenty of exceptions) doesn't understand corporate capitalism. Theyre going to do whatever they can to get as much cash out of their customers as they can. They have plenty of 'captured' customers that are very into the game and will never stop playing it and now that that group is large enough they can find ways to get leverage over those players to get more and more cash out of them without providing a better service or product.
I mean if they were really improving the interface and making the MTGO system truly serve the desires and enjoyment of the players than I would be much more willing to give them a bit more cash but at this point that's just not been their behavior. They seem instead to go for every easy way to make cash while investing in the very cheapest programming and intentionally blocking players from having robust community resources that work well.
Man I am such a troll, lol, well at least I can hope to be a mythic one and be worth something heh.
heh, I don't mind the "wall of text" (actually I hate that phrase. Why must everything be broken down into twitterable bite sizes?) and open communication of ideas is healthy for understanding each other and the community as a whole, especially since now you are starting your new format. Posts like the above make me more inclined to want to join the Heirloom squad because I appreciate social interaction as much as game play.
To some degree I know what you mean. As a red player (my only Standard deck is Red Deck Wins), I feel a bit bleh about either needing to pay for Koth or change a whole new deck. I mean, I'm not trying to complain because I'm glad red is getting some love, but on the other hand, I was hoping to cheaply port my deck to a new Standard and it looks like now I'll be relegated to cas/cas with a Kothless red deck or a cheap poison deck. =( The whole needing Jace (i.e. expensive mythics) may be creeping into other colours.
Not that it would make me quit MTGO, but once that camel's back is broken I'm likely to avoid activities on MTGO that give wizards my money since hey you guys can't treat your customers well, well then I'll just play my PREs and avoid draft and constructed altogether.
I'm almost there already just because I happen to have found activities that I like that are to that effect, but if I were to really become totally disgruntled I could see myself never investing in anything but the secondary market purposefully as a protest of wizard's bad policies that seem to be trying to get more and more out of the small number of players with a good income (people like myself) while making the rest of the mtg community second class citizens if they cant afford a playset of Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
I want to play with players of all economic situations on a relatively even field. Lets compete based on deckbuilding, decktuning and play skill, not on who could afford the $500 standard deck or to draft $20 prerelease drafts early over and over to get an edge in limited once the release occurs.
I'm not that upset about it as I said I'm loving Heirloom right now to the point I've already given away more than $100 in prizes at the PREs with no expectation of making any of that back. I just wanted to play with people like me and to give people a good option for constructed that isn't based on your allowance. I've made better friends and enjoyed MTGO more with this budget format than I ever did shelling out hundreds a year for draft and constructed. But hey the more Wizards does this sort of thing the more people will want to play with us in Heirloom so I guess that's a good thing =)
Sorry for the wall of text to respond to 2 sentences but you just got me rolling a bit there.
Hmm 20 tix for the prerelease drafts? will there be higher payouts? If not well ya another straw on my camel's back there. (no leagues, mythics, no player room to announce PRE's, no PRE support, bad clans)
The only reason I think Koth will fizzle for constructed is if Red is altogether unplayable other than Koth, he's very good.
Another great podcast, I like the new guy he's got some moxie to him.
Very attractive presentation and great writing as always My-Lord-Erman.
I like the Training Grounds combo with molten-tail masticore.
What Mox Opal needs to justify its cash value atm is a good outlet to sacrifice it so you can chain any multiples you've drawn to justify running it as a 4 of.
It's certianly nice to see red finally get a decent walker, now we just need a black one right?
It kind of sucks to see another good walker lol, wallet killers walk into your universe and steal your paycheck lol.
Galvanic Blast seems insane btw, maybe the most busted card in the set.
seems like you missed out a bit by passing up some of the green pack one, red white is nice but stronger cards is better and I think the green cards were enough better to make switching out of white the right call there. I wanted you to take the shiv's embrace for sure, the card single-handedly wins games all the time. I also really dont like the double white 2 drops in an aggro deck much, I'll play the knight every time but I'm usually not happy about it in limited since it just makes games swingier. (ie sometimes you get the mana and rock out with your... and sometimes it sits in your hand till turn 5-7 and doesnt do what you needed it to for an aggro deck)
Anyhow thanks for the draft walkthrough I always like seeing people's thought process on the format since its my main format other than heirloom.
I'm not really one to complain too much about prices in Magic in general, but Wasteland at $30 is crazy and unhealthy in my humble opinion. Looking at the chart, that's a 200% increase in 2010.
@Baldr7 I think mtgotraders.com since this and that site are the same company.
I had a terrible hand the other day on a UW deck of mine - and drew nothing but removal cards so ended up for 15 turns getting hated simply because of the luck of the draw - and like I am going to sit there with ample removal and nothing else and get the beats from someone who has a rather rude manner.
Indeed their IQ often shows thru - especially in the rage comments and bad speeeeling ;)
Definitely a LOL and LOI and LAI (Laughing at Idiot) time.
Especially the idiots who close out of a game - I just leave it open in case they come back before it times out - really gets them worked up then Granted sometimes dropoutters are not intentional e.g no laptop battery/power cut/ ginger kitten attacking my modem cable, hence it is always best to give people the benefit of the doubt if their language is not indicating hate.
Hey Silver,
What I mean here may have come out a bit mishmashed from my head to screen, as it implies more than I meant it to. I meant to say that Wizards intentionally blocks community organizing and does not provide community resources that work well.
The first part is that they have no chat channel or board in the game that allows for advertisement of PREs (Player run events). They will warn, suspend then ban you for trying(I don't think you can advertize clans or PRLs either (player run leagues). Not allowing spam in certian areas is reasonable, so long as you allow that advertizement in other areas in the game, having to go to boards just kills it. There is no reason for this as the programming involved just means having another tab open or allowing the classified boards to contain it(who scrolls the entire boards without a filter anyway?) to that extent I consider that active, intentional blocking.
Not actually providing good resources is the other side of that, but since theyre as I say actively blocking even the most basic resource (a non-ban-stick forum to advertise in game) this is obviously a road too far for them.
When leagues come out don't expect them to be customizable for players to define themselves, theyre surely going to ensure they cost far more than we would want them to and under their strict control.
X-
Hey Paul,
It's natural and expected to me for Wizards to act the way to do, I just know that some people think of them as warm and fuzzy just because they're a game company and have some nice people working for them, and I just wanted to emphasize the innate nature of business.
Also I agree that the policies have been short sighted, since in the end I think it cuts down on what could have been greater mtg player base growth, and ya 4322 drafts have been an outrage for a long time.
I just hope this new client is actually worth the wait, and a good product, and a good product for players and not just the MTGO store, I have my doubts.
Here's hoping,
X-
One normal sealed event for me. My highlight of this bit was seeing that development of the new client is still underway.
Have to agree with Paul here, (Don't worry, I'll shower) as some written substance would be nice. But yes, draft walkthroughs are nice, thanks!
"intentionally blocking players from having robust community resources that work well."
I'm almost afraid to ask, but what does this mean? :-)
Nice breakdown of that $6 premium. That being said, I'll still avoid the PRE events altogether and play in the normal release.
Very good points about the Piker. I have never analyzed the card that closely. In my original deck, I needed him as a 2-drop. He and the owl we my only 2-drop creatures and this was a flaw that kept me from winning the tournament. I used him as weenie removal, like a Stabbing Pain that can swing for two sometimes. Lightning Bolts were reserved for direct damage almost exclusively, except in emegencies. Let's just say, when I drew the Piker early, I was happy, and those are games that I won. If my deck stabilized at all and I got to five mana in okay shape or even down by a lot I won. With 2x Fire Servant, 2x Lightning Bolt, and 2x Lava Axe, the direct damage wqas the game winner.
I wanted the Blue in the deck more than the Black, and I like the Owl and the Preordain better for getting me to my win conditions. The problem was in my 2 to 3-drop slot. When I took a look and saw that I could fix this by taking out the blue for the black, which had I thought that the redux deck would perform better with a Black Knight and Barony Vampire over the Owl and the Scroll Thief. It would take me longer to get to my answers, but I should have more time with a better board and even have a chance to win more with a more traditional aggro build. That is what I was trying to get at with this deck. The first build was surprisingly good, but I did well mainly because I was up against slower decks. You might be right, though. I guess the whole thing would have been better if I was more solid in either blue or black, It isn't much of a fix, once you take a look at it. If only I had a Teramorphic Expanse or a duel land or two.
Nice podcast - I wish it hadn't been cutoff though.
As for $20 drafts, I think you are paying a premium for early access and another premium for the mythic promo. Whatever Wizards says, it is aware of the impact and health of the secondary market. They do not want a solid mythic to tank in value just because it is a promo.
Now, I think Wurmcoil Engine is slightly better than Sun Titan and the physical card is currently running $12.00 at cape fear games (I use cape fear as the barometer since it has the same owner as mtgotraders). The Sun Titan promo currently clocks in at $3.00 with 0 in stock while the non-promo runs $5.00 on mtgotraders, while the promo/non-promo run 6.99/5.85 at cape fear games with no copies of the non-promo in stock.
So if you consider the prerelease draft as $14 for the draft, $3 for the promo, that leaves a $3 surcharge for early access to the set. I do think that with the drafts the promo Wurmcoil Engine will be released in much greater amounts than the promo Sun Titan.
Don't get too upset about the 20 tix drafts, It's crowd control.
Back before prereleases when WotC would just start all new set events at normal prices and at the same time people would all jump on Magic Online at the same time. This would often lead to server problems and outright crashes. The prereleases separate the interest in the new set into two waves, which cuts down on the stress to the server and avoids those crashes.
If you don't like the 20 tix drafts, just wait for the regular ones to start up.
I am not as anti corp/anti wizas as you seem to be but I agree that they tend to be self centered in their policies but are somewhat lacking in the enlightened self-interest part of that. I am sure there are plenty of people who work there who feel similarly to the disgruntled among us (some of my past acquaintances work there and while I didn't know them intimately I think it is safe to say they would not be happy about the current lack of player-centric policies being avid players themselves.)
On the other hand it IS a business and businesses have to produce a certain amount of net profit to justify their capital. (ie: they have to please their parent corp.) So their decisions are going to be somewhat hamstrung by that. The bottom line is not a myth, particularly in this day and age. It is not enough to merely have a good quarter. They have to have great quarters most of the time. Failure in this area brings disaster for us all.
20 tix for a draft seems outrageous compared to 14 tix but I don't think it is as big a deal for most of us as it sounds. Many of us don't even participate in PRE Release events. Those that do may be more inclined to draft than play Sealed but this is the first time that option has been available. 4-3-2-2 is where the real fail is. I am not certain wizards realizes that 4-3-2-2 is a well known insult among vets. They might not even realize that it is cumbersome to the players as a whole since so many queues fire daily with that payout.
But as many of the voices of reason on the boards said, put your money where your fingers are. And you and I seem to be doing that though in my case I was already there. Bills, Food > M:tg.
Also as per the above announcement (first thing) the client is in theory getting it's long awaited facelift/refactoring soon. When that "soon" ends up being for the majority of us is anyone's guess. Meantime hang tight. Perhaps eventually leagues will be a possibility if the client's upgrade truly is that and not another fiasco that kicks us offline for a couple of years (like last time did to me.)
RE long messages/aka walls of text: These are relatively short posts compared to some. :p I too find it unnecessary to be the soul of brevity for fear I might bore some reader to death. Anyone can read any post or reply they want to and they can avoid any they don't want to read. I certainly do that at times.
I don't see anything trollish in anything you've posted yet. There are bound to be opposing opinions as there are always are. Dissent is the heart of interesting conversation.
Great podcast, Good Grief at the 20 tix, and great discussion. Good to read... bravo.
Good thinking good discussion, gives me hope in the people, even when the corporation seems to lack it.
Ya MMogg,
I'm glad you're on of those that appreciates nuance and integrity in conversation.
While printing Koth could very well have been out of reaction to complaints that all the red mythics suck I'm sure Wizas were perfectly happy to shore up the weak point in the supply/demand paradigm in standard they've set up to boost booster sales.
Anyone who believed the claims of Wizas spokesholes that claimed that mythics were not just going to be a list of the best cards in each set (I mean sure it's hyperbolic to say they are or will be completely since there are going to be plenty of exceptions) doesn't understand corporate capitalism. Theyre going to do whatever they can to get as much cash out of their customers as they can. They have plenty of 'captured' customers that are very into the game and will never stop playing it and now that that group is large enough they can find ways to get leverage over those players to get more and more cash out of them without providing a better service or product.
I mean if they were really improving the interface and making the MTGO system truly serve the desires and enjoyment of the players than I would be much more willing to give them a bit more cash but at this point that's just not been their behavior. They seem instead to go for every easy way to make cash while investing in the very cheapest programming and intentionally blocking players from having robust community resources that work well.
Man I am such a troll, lol, well at least I can hope to be a mythic one and be worth something heh.
X-
heh, I don't mind the "wall of text" (actually I hate that phrase. Why must everything be broken down into twitterable bite sizes?) and open communication of ideas is healthy for understanding each other and the community as a whole, especially since now you are starting your new format. Posts like the above make me more inclined to want to join the Heirloom squad because I appreciate social interaction as much as game play.
To some degree I know what you mean. As a red player (my only Standard deck is Red Deck Wins), I feel a bit bleh about either needing to pay for Koth or change a whole new deck. I mean, I'm not trying to complain because I'm glad red is getting some love, but on the other hand, I was hoping to cheaply port my deck to a new Standard and it looks like now I'll be relegated to cas/cas with a Kothless red deck or a cheap poison deck. =( The whole needing Jace (i.e. expensive mythics) may be creeping into other colours.
Why are those apes wearing my grandmother's makeup anyway? "No of course you all look beautiful, umm I have to go..."
X-
Not that it would make me quit MTGO, but once that camel's back is broken I'm likely to avoid activities on MTGO that give wizards my money since hey you guys can't treat your customers well, well then I'll just play my PREs and avoid draft and constructed altogether.
I'm almost there already just because I happen to have found activities that I like that are to that effect, but if I were to really become totally disgruntled I could see myself never investing in anything but the secondary market purposefully as a protest of wizard's bad policies that seem to be trying to get more and more out of the small number of players with a good income (people like myself) while making the rest of the mtg community second class citizens if they cant afford a playset of Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
I want to play with players of all economic situations on a relatively even field. Lets compete based on deckbuilding, decktuning and play skill, not on who could afford the $500 standard deck or to draft $20 prerelease drafts early over and over to get an edge in limited once the release occurs.
I'm not that upset about it as I said I'm loving Heirloom right now to the point I've already given away more than $100 in prizes at the PREs with no expectation of making any of that back. I just wanted to play with people like me and to give people a good option for constructed that isn't based on your allowance. I've made better friends and enjoyed MTGO more with this budget format than I ever did shelling out hundreds a year for draft and constructed. But hey the more Wizards does this sort of thing the more people will want to play with us in Heirloom so I guess that's a good thing =)
Sorry for the wall of text to respond to 2 sentences but you just got me rolling a bit there.
X-
You're absolutely right, and you win my 'spot the not-actually-deliberate-but-I'm-going-to-pretend-it-was deliberate mistake competition'.
The straw on your camel's back meaning you give up on MTGO?
You do get a prerelease card as well, although it'll probably end up worth about 25 cents. ;)
I'm always forgetting my balls at home.
Hmm 20 tix for the prerelease drafts? will there be higher payouts? If not well ya another straw on my camel's back there. (no leagues, mythics, no player room to announce PRE's, no PRE support, bad clans)
The only reason I think Koth will fizzle for constructed is if Red is altogether unplayable other than Koth, he's very good.
Another great podcast, I like the new guy he's got some moxie to him.
X-
Nice. Article.
Very attractive presentation and great writing as always My-Lord-Erman.
I like the Training Grounds combo with molten-tail masticore.
What Mox Opal needs to justify its cash value atm is a good outlet to sacrifice it so you can chain any multiples you've drawn to justify running it as a 4 of.
It's certianly nice to see red finally get a decent walker, now we just need a black one right?
It kind of sucks to see another good walker lol, wallet killers walk into your universe and steal your paycheck lol.
Galvanic Blast seems insane btw, maybe the most busted card in the set.
X-
Hmmm half a podcast? Or did you just forget that you had so much time and cut off the rest?
Hey there Sabi0,
seems like you missed out a bit by passing up some of the green pack one, red white is nice but stronger cards is better and I think the green cards were enough better to make switching out of white the right call there. I wanted you to take the shiv's embrace for sure, the card single-handedly wins games all the time. I also really dont like the double white 2 drops in an aggro deck much, I'll play the knight every time but I'm usually not happy about it in limited since it just makes games swingier. (ie sometimes you get the mana and rock out with your... and sometimes it sits in your hand till turn 5-7 and doesnt do what you needed it to for an aggro deck)
Anyhow thanks for the draft walkthrough I always like seeing people's thought process on the format since its my main format other than heirloom.
X-
So no actual written words eh?
I'm not really one to complain too much about prices in Magic in general, but Wasteland at $30 is crazy and unhealthy in my humble opinion. Looking at the chart, that's a 200% increase in 2010.
@Baldr7 I think mtgotraders.com since this and that site are the same company.
Agree - you gotta love em.
I had a terrible hand the other day on a UW deck of mine - and drew nothing but removal cards so ended up for 15 turns getting hated simply because of the luck of the draw - and like I am going to sit there with ample removal and nothing else and get the beats from someone who has a rather rude manner.
Indeed their IQ often shows thru - especially in the rage comments and bad speeeeling ;)
Definitely a LOL and LOI and LAI (Laughing at Idiot) time.
Especially the idiots who close out of a game - I just leave it open in case they come back before it times out - really gets them worked up then Granted sometimes dropoutters are not intentional e.g no laptop battery/power cut/ ginger kitten attacking my modem cable, hence it is always best to give people the benefit of the doubt if their language is not indicating hate.