SB vs. Dredge was same as yours. I'll try the River. just beat dredge - going first, I had the dream hand - Ancient Tomb, 2 Petal, Show and Tell, Progenitus, Spell Pierce + something. Progenitus with Pierce backup t.1 is nutty.
Build your own precon. Use the rarity of precons and allow only those rarities and build decks. Or you could just use Peasant format instead which I believe allows 3 uncommons and the rest commons.
What does the print run of paper have to do with MTGO? There is no redemption on old sets. So there is no actual print run online.. I mean if i went to the online store with 10 million dollars they arent gonna say hey we only can take 5.
wouldn't it be practically impossible to get the online meta to mirror paper? WotC, if it eventually releases every card or just about every card, is not going to limit itself to the actual number of paper copies in circulation of scarce cards from the first few years of Magic
For example: If WotC prints Black Lotus on MTGO, why would they leave all the money to be made by the secondary market by only printing as many online as were printed in paper?
Or maybe I'm crazy to assume that the online print runs of some cards from pre-Ice Age (when I originally started) are not exceeding the actual number of paper copies in circulation ...
I really do seem to recall WotC claiming that MTGO was going to be its own entity and be an Invasion-block forward game - then I came back after 5 years away to discovered that most of the cards I remember from back in the day are online now.
I agree on the clearly characterized hierarchy. My own clan challenges have clearly defined rules and themes for each challenge, but generally we max out at commons, uncommons, and 4 non-identical rares (with a host of other restrictions).
What i had meant to say was that a deck like DnT has not placed in a big event like 5k or GP in the last year, with the sole exception of one list in a 5k at 14th place. Goblins are capable, however they rarely take 1st and do not have a large top 8 penetration to number of times played ratio.
The meta is a budget kid's cheese bus meta./wrists
DnT is in 2nd place behind Goblins online. Did you think i just shoot shit out my ass impin? And c'mon really Morgan..He is the only person in theeee world no Universe who plays Slide, so it is only 1 Morgan/slide in a meta at once(oh and the dude has a 60% win%)
Sorry about my spelling, I am a slightly better Magic player than speller(isn't saying much i know)
The mulligans for this deck are so rough sometimes. This is why some lists run more lands.
D&T can be tough, it is that exact matchup as to why I prefer Rushing River. River gives me two choices instead of just one with wipe away. Here is a prime example of how this helped me the other day. At end of opps turn playing D&T, I cast River, sac'd land, targetted his Obl ring on my Dream Halls and His Canonist. Next turn it was good game. Wipe Away is great as an uncounterable, but I think you will find Rushing River better. Plus, it can clear the board of 2 dredge tokens instead of one if need be.
My list isn't perfect, far from it. Glad to see it sparked some passion in you dude!
Ok - quickly converted here. I tested the deck with 4 quick 2-mans, beating zoo, losing to dredge (never drawing hate), and splitting with D&T. You're right that PoN is not so good as Dispel (though Dispel seems to be the weakest card in the deck). Some of the combos just don't win on that turn. You're also right that Ponder is better than Impulse - due to mana concerns and the fact that Spell Snare is officially dead once you get rid of Impulse.
I cast Dream Halls against an opponent who Vialed in Canonist in response when I was at three life, him also having a Sword of Light and Shadow on an Angel. I had the Sphinx though, which I could cast since it was an artifact, went up to ten, and also got Wipe Away (I think I like this over River, but not sure). I wiped the sword away on his attack, killing the Angel with the Sphinx. I countered his Sword next turn, and eventually turned it around. Sphinx was very cool in that it was the only card in the game that could have saved me (possibly excepting Steel Wind).
*$580 in Force of Will, but who is counting. In all seriousness, I can respect that. But even if you are not able to play the deck, you can still read the entire article. You can at least have knowledge of it so when you do face it you aren't baffled by what is going on.
And for the record, if I had to pay $580 for them, I would be writing about a different decklist more than likely without Force of Wills. Not because I don't think they are worth the price, but because I am a tightwad. I would rather take that 580 and buy more cards so I could play more variety of decklists. Then again, I would probably end up buying them eventually.
I started to read the article, seen $600 in Force of Wills, and quit there...Sorry. I did brownse the deck list though and it looks interesting enough I may play it in Paper.
I remember your suggestion of Cleansing, but to be honest I haven't seen as many enchantress decks in the 2mans as I thought. Next time I play a larger tourney it might be a nice option. I can easily see how you missed show and tell's ability for a t2/3 Halls. I almost overlooked it when I first started viewing the decklist.
I have not tried impulse yet or pact. I haven't tried pact because I don't own any first of all. Secondly I wonder its ultimate effectiveness. There are some times where casting Dream Halls into Cruel Ultimatum is necessary, however without using conflux you would die to pacts ability next turn without the proper mana. Come to of it, I don't own any of those cards you mentioned which is odd because they aren't that expensive. The mystic is a good idea worth testing, most lists I've researched use Meditate to shore up that matchup, another card I don't own and will buy once Heath gets em in stock.
Knowing your awesome deck building skills, I am sure you could utilize this deck to its fullest!
By the way, any thoughts on Impulse vs. Ponder? Or Pact of Negation vs. Dispel? Though unsure myself on those two, I have a harder time understanding the lack of the 4th Petal. Also, I think Mystic Remora may be the card you want vs. Rock. They will have a hard time removing it, and it counters all the cheap discard very efficiently - worth testing, anyways!
Of note, one Cleansing Meditation in the board should make the Enchantress matchup a bye (fetch it off of Conflux). Good rundown; I had completely missed that Show and Tell can put out Dream Halls. Now that I feel less dumb, I look forward to trying this out.
In regards to having a banned list based on prices this can work. I already have a list of all the cards over $3 which will be updated each month for my rare drafter article.
What can be done is at the start of each month we use the cards from the latest article as a structure for the banned list for that month. Then the following month the banned list is updated and we issue a new banned list.
It should work with out any issues I have thought a lot about how this event could be run over the last few weeks.
There was a PRE a long time ago like ArchGenius suggested which was based on the same rules as the precons you have your commons and so many uncommons and a rare or in our case now it could work out ok to have two rares and a Mythic but Mythic's can be game warping so I would leave them out.
I've never really liked any format with rules based on the price of a card. People like to argue about price. It just reminds me of when I used to trade card-for-card with strangers that weren't bots. They would stay in the trade just long enough to realize I had a decent idea of how valuable my cards were, and then they would drop the trade and go try to sucker someone else. I wasted so much time arguing with people that yes, my foil Tarmogoyf is valuable, and no, there is nothing in your collection I would trade for it. (I opened it in a draft btw)
I can just see the arguments now...
Player A: "You can't use Bloodbraid Elf, it's too expensive."
Player B: "No it's not, I bought mine a while ago for 3."
Player A: "Mtgotraders.com has it for 4.5"
Player B: "But I sold one to them for 3 just the other day."
Player A: "We're going by their selling price, not their buying price."
Player B: "huh...?"
and that's just with something that is relatively clear cut with one player who is obviously wrong. Things could get much worse with broken or banned cheap cards such as Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek, storm cards, Skullclamp, Necropotence, etc.
I think something of a more concrete rule base would work better. Such as only commons and uncommons, or a hierarchy 1 mythic, 4 rares, 8 uncommons, the rest commons.
With respect to legacy, I've found FoW to be no where near as required as in classic, or in vintage. Take a look at the top decks, and I'd dare say half of the winners aren't running FoW. So to say that the lack of FoW is keeping you out of the format seems silly.
SB vs. Dredge was same as yours. I'll try the River. just beat dredge - going first, I had the dream hand - Ancient Tomb, 2 Petal, Show and Tell, Progenitus, Spell Pierce + something. Progenitus with Pierce backup t.1 is nutty.
5 uncommons but yeah
I can suppy the banned list once a month thats not a problem for me as its an off shoot from my article.
I however dont have time to run the event or take part in it. I only have time for one event a week which for me is Shard's tribal pre.
Build your own precon. Use the rarity of precons and allow only those rarities and build decks. Or you could just use Peasant format instead which I believe allows 3 uncommons and the rest commons.
In the words of the mighty DL Buh wha????
What does the print run of paper have to do with MTGO? There is no redemption on old sets. So there is no actual print run online.. I mean if i went to the online store with 10 million dollars they arent gonna say hey we only can take 5.
wouldn't it be practically impossible to get the online meta to mirror paper? WotC, if it eventually releases every card or just about every card, is not going to limit itself to the actual number of paper copies in circulation of scarce cards from the first few years of Magic
For example: If WotC prints Black Lotus on MTGO, why would they leave all the money to be made by the secondary market by only printing as many online as were printed in paper?
Or maybe I'm crazy to assume that the online print runs of some cards from pre-Ice Age (when I originally started) are not exceeding the actual number of paper copies in circulation ...
I really do seem to recall WotC claiming that MTGO was going to be its own entity and be an Invasion-block forward game - then I came back after 5 years away to discovered that most of the cards I remember from back in the day are online now.
I agree on the clearly characterized hierarchy. My own clan challenges have clearly defined rules and themes for each challenge, but generally we max out at commons, uncommons, and 4 non-identical rares (with a host of other restrictions).
What i had meant to say was that a deck like DnT has not placed in a big event like 5k or GP in the last year, with the sole exception of one list in a 5k at 14th place. Goblins are capable, however they rarely take 1st and do not have a large top 8 penetration to number of times played ratio.
The meta is a budget kid's cheese bus meta./wrists
DnT is in 2nd place behind Goblins online. Did you think i just shoot shit out my ass impin? And c'mon really Morgan..He is the only person in theeee world no Universe who plays Slide, so it is only 1 Morgan/slide in a meta at once(oh and the dude has a 60% win%)
Sorry about my spelling, I am a slightly better Magic player than speller(isn't saying much i know)
Red Green and Princess Bride in the same article, say it isn't so!!!!
It might be time for me to search Netflix for good ole Red Green, how I miss the duct tape VCR Clothesline.
Ya know, I've never played this format, but I really enjoyed the article!
Your sideboard vs Dredge?
The mulligans for this deck are so rough sometimes. This is why some lists run more lands.
D&T can be tough, it is that exact matchup as to why I prefer Rushing River. River gives me two choices instead of just one with wipe away. Here is a prime example of how this helped me the other day. At end of opps turn playing D&T, I cast River, sac'd land, targetted his Obl ring on my Dream Halls and His Canonist. Next turn it was good game. Wipe Away is great as an uncounterable, but I think you will find Rushing River better. Plus, it can clear the board of 2 dredge tokens instead of one if need be.
My list isn't perfect, far from it. Glad to see it sparked some passion in you dude!
Ok - quickly converted here. I tested the deck with 4 quick 2-mans, beating zoo, losing to dredge (never drawing hate), and splitting with D&T. You're right that PoN is not so good as Dispel (though Dispel seems to be the weakest card in the deck). Some of the combos just don't win on that turn. You're also right that Ponder is better than Impulse - due to mana concerns and the fact that Spell Snare is officially dead once you get rid of Impulse.
I cast Dream Halls against an opponent who Vialed in Canonist in response when I was at three life, him also having a Sword of Light and Shadow on an Angel. I had the Sphinx though, which I could cast since it was an artifact, went up to ten, and also got Wipe Away (I think I like this over River, but not sure). I wiped the sword away on his attack, killing the Angel with the Sphinx. I countered his Sword next turn, and eventually turned it around. Sphinx was very cool in that it was the only card in the game that could have saved me (possibly excepting Steel Wind).
*$580 in Force of Will, but who is counting. In all seriousness, I can respect that. But even if you are not able to play the deck, you can still read the entire article. You can at least have knowledge of it so when you do face it you aren't baffled by what is going on.
And for the record, if I had to pay $580 for them, I would be writing about a different decklist more than likely without Force of Wills. Not because I don't think they are worth the price, but because I am a tightwad. I would rather take that 580 and buy more cards so I could play more variety of decklists. Then again, I would probably end up buying them eventually.
I started to read the article, seen $600 in Force of Wills, and quit there...Sorry. I did brownse the deck list though and it looks interesting enough I may play it in Paper.
That was the whole point of doing it this way to begin with. :)
I remember your suggestion of Cleansing, but to be honest I haven't seen as many enchantress decks in the 2mans as I thought. Next time I play a larger tourney it might be a nice option. I can easily see how you missed show and tell's ability for a t2/3 Halls. I almost overlooked it when I first started viewing the decklist.
I have not tried impulse yet or pact. I haven't tried pact because I don't own any first of all. Secondly I wonder its ultimate effectiveness. There are some times where casting Dream Halls into Cruel Ultimatum is necessary, however without using conflux you would die to pacts ability next turn without the proper mana. Come to of it, I don't own any of those cards you mentioned which is odd because they aren't that expensive. The mystic is a good idea worth testing, most lists I've researched use Meditate to shore up that matchup, another card I don't own and will buy once Heath gets em in stock.
Knowing your awesome deck building skills, I am sure you could utilize this deck to its fullest!
By the way, any thoughts on Impulse vs. Ponder? Or Pact of Negation vs. Dispel? Though unsure myself on those two, I have a harder time understanding the lack of the 4th Petal. Also, I think Mystic Remora may be the card you want vs. Rock. They will have a hard time removing it, and it counters all the cheap discard very efficiently - worth testing, anyways!
That seems like a lot of work on your part, but it would eliminate most of the problems with the format that I can predict.
Of note, one Cleansing Meditation in the board should make the Enchantress matchup a bye (fetch it off of Conflux). Good rundown; I had completely missed that Show and Tell can put out Dream Halls. Now that I feel less dumb, I look forward to trying this out.
Well, mtgotraders now has prices up for ROE. Let the madness begin...
Yeah, I like to abuse my humans :)
No Aether Vial is not on the list, but I think it should be.
Looks fine on IE8 to me.
In regards to having a banned list based on prices this can work. I already have a list of all the cards over $3 which will be updated each month for my rare drafter article.
What can be done is at the start of each month we use the cards from the latest article as a structure for the banned list for that month. Then the following month the banned list is updated and we issue a new banned list.
It should work with out any issues I have thought a lot about how this event could be run over the last few weeks.
There was a PRE a long time ago like ArchGenius suggested which was based on the same rules as the precons you have your commons and so many uncommons and a rare or in our case now it could work out ok to have two rares and a Mythic but Mythic's can be game warping so I would leave them out.
I've never really liked any format with rules based on the price of a card. People like to argue about price. It just reminds me of when I used to trade card-for-card with strangers that weren't bots. They would stay in the trade just long enough to realize I had a decent idea of how valuable my cards were, and then they would drop the trade and go try to sucker someone else. I wasted so much time arguing with people that yes, my foil Tarmogoyf is valuable, and no, there is nothing in your collection I would trade for it. (I opened it in a draft btw)
I can just see the arguments now...
Player A: "You can't use Bloodbraid Elf, it's too expensive."
Player B: "No it's not, I bought mine a while ago for 3."
Player A: "Mtgotraders.com has it for 4.5"
Player B: "But I sold one to them for 3 just the other day."
Player A: "We're going by their selling price, not their buying price."
Player B: "huh...?"
and that's just with something that is relatively clear cut with one player who is obviously wrong. Things could get much worse with broken or banned cheap cards such as Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek, storm cards, Skullclamp, Necropotence, etc.
I think something of a more concrete rule base would work better. Such as only commons and uncommons, or a hierarchy 1 mythic, 4 rares, 8 uncommons, the rest commons.
With respect to legacy, I've found FoW to be no where near as required as in classic, or in vintage. Take a look at the top decks, and I'd dare say half of the winners aren't running FoW. So to say that the lack of FoW is keeping you out of the format seems silly.