"But...people like to play with new cards and I can see how the attraction to standard could be overwhelming.
I guess it is just a matter of priority and money as to which format you choose to play."
The problem is not only that people want to play with new cards, they also want to test / qualifiy for Nationals Grand Prix and the Tour. So, if someone would let me choose between Legacy and T2 I think I would T2 all as long as the system works as it works.
Don't forget the limited print runs of several different sets. These small print runs really did have an effect on the 2ndary market and partially lead to high prices in sets such as Exodus.
Between that and the mythics, I think WOTC could have somewhat of an impact on the market.
I do agree with you Justsin, there are always decks in standard that have high prices which could be transferred into the necessary funds to just go ahead and purchase Legacy stuff. The legacy stuff wouldn't rotate out either and your collection value won't fall off the map like it often does during set rotation. But...people like to play with new cards and I can see how the attraction to standard could be overwhelming.
I guess it is just a matter of priority and money as to which format you choose to play.
Honestly not sure what happened Dunkle. I submitted it last week and submitted this one yesterday. I will have to get with Josh and see if it got lost in the shuffle.
that deck you talk about in std could eaisly be dropped down by about 200 dollars if wotc had not made mythics, and that would be a direct control on the secondery market.
Great article, IMHO the casual highly creative combo decks are the best way to illustrate the many possibilities offered by the game. I truly look forward to other articles in the series!
I see your decklist is 2 cards short (7+29+22=58), I suppose that was the missing Lightning Greaves probably in 2 copies, am I right?
It is definitely the case that the increases have been more dramatic because of the short time within which they have come. Some of the staples you listed I am surprised have dropped as much as they have as they seem like answers to others that have risen. I agree that each individual has a different barrier depending on circumstances and desire. It helps if you get in on the ground floor of cards that you know will eventually shoot up. It sucks to sit there and think "if only!".
Really great article Markus! Very on point. If I played 100s I would certainly be interested in the decks but even though I don't I still enjoyed the thought processes. I have a friend who used to claim that I deliberately balanced my decks against each other while playing my gf. I didn't see it. But then one day I realized my main metagame was based on our daily games in the diner. I would see an interaction between decks, think on it and then work out solutions. Very rarely were these games one sided. Usually they would go over long as we stalemated until a top deck came along to wreck everything. Tweaking and changing decks is definitely a fine art that can be overdone or done carelessly, causing unforeseen consequences. Thanks for sharing and congrats on the qualifying. Hope you win it all :D
Enchanted Evening combos nicely with Primeval Light which incidentally kills Moat without any help. The downside is you need some fetch to make it work well, and preferably some protection for it.
I've seen Green White Clerics a few times and I haven't been impressed but I admit Enchanted Evening does make sense with the choices you have made.
Oh and Darnation, you built unicorns before I got my chance to run them in the PRE.
That version's pretty good, as it's nice with coiling oracle also. I like a black splash for maelstrom pulse, as the deck has no permanent removal otherwise, and pulse gives it n answer to pretty much any permanent.
Anyway, I might actually be about to play this weekend! I have a pretty bonkers spirits deck, but the mana-base is barely working, so I might just bring my old-school snakes back...
Oh no! A bombo indeed. Sad as I've loved playing with this deck.
I do have a variant of the deck that uses (Chandra Ablaze)...no Kraj/Lattice/March, but in its place you can cast 10-15 instants/sorceries of any color, of your choice, the turn you go off! I'll post the list next time (but won't devote the whole article to it). Stay tuned!
Steppe Lynx was too good to pass and people prefered playing both Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede for even more Landfall craziness. And Kor Skyfisher was also very efficient. Oh that, and mono Red had no playable solution to Kor Firewalker.
"606
This ability was added to cover "loyalty abilities," which are activated abilities with loyalty symbols in their costs. Previous rules about planeswalkers stated that a player could activate only one of their abilities per planeswalker per turn, and could do so only at a time he or she could cast a sorcery. Now these restrictions are intrinsic to the abilities, not intrinsic to the planeswalker card type.
This was done for two reasons. 1) This makes a lot more sense if a planeswalker is granted an activated ability, as with Flame Fusillade. Activating that other ability shouldn't preclude activating a loyalty ability, and shouldn't have to be done only at a time the player could cast a sorcery. 2) This closes a loophole regarding a non-planeswalker (such as Quicksilver Elemental) that somehow picks up some loyalty abilities and goes bonkers."
I guess that the programmers haven't caught up yet. Take advantage while you still can!
The whole point of the article and your thoughts on building a better 100CS deck aside, what I found interesting in this article is this:
So a man with a decent job who also has a family and a life, can raise his rating up to 1850 and qualify for MOCS, eh? That was really encouraging. I never thought that this would be possible for people like me. I always thought MOCS and such stuff are for students and people with huge spare time. Now you proved otherwise. That might not change much for me right now but I will have it somewhere in my mind.
Yeah I'm not quite certain what happened with the code. If anyone knows I'd be happy to revise it, or if the admins want to change it they're welcome to.
I'd love to hear folks' opinions on the large-budget casual - I'm really surprised that someone actually likes it! Even though it's the way I play, if people prefer I can very easily dial it down. My first 2 1/2 years on Magic I kept to a $10-15/month budget, so I'm well used to making do with a small cardpool.
I think most manabases can be fairly stable if they run 6-8 fetches and the rest basics, and I'm sure there's a middle ground. This deck is admittedly insane on the mana, but that's to play off of the Hermit Druid.
Agreed, the interaction is insanely costed if one doesn't "cheat" it out. I figured this was one of the more unusual ways to do it. Dream Halls could probably get the combo rolling fairly easily, but with it being the backbone of a tourney deck I didn't really want to go down that road.
first off shame on you for getting my hopes up with the Princess Bride picture, but no funny quote to back it up
this here is an article that I'll probably revisit several times, whether or not this deck is successful is almost a null point because I think this article has a stronger showing in its explanation of common pitfalls in deck building... sure I hope it works well for you, but I read through these and saw some of the same mistakes I've made before when toying with a deck, I'm going to reread this again because I'm sure there was some tip I glanced over lol, but it's really some good stuff
Great stuff, you went to big lengths to break out the deck building and it's cost and I can appreciate the time/effort that takes.. the deck is pretty cool, though I'd personally "money it up" lol one thing on Vorosh is that if you can get him in play he can do enough dmg to finish off a player in like what 3 turns? then one every turn after that? the Extractor demon part was not only interesting, but funny as well
I gotta say though one thing I wish you would have done was call a bit more attention to this last paragraph you have here... you added in a fantastic piece of advice for someone getting into the format on the price of the premade vs. the individual cards and I felt it just got a bit lost in the text, though I'm definitely a slap me in the face so I can see something right in front of me kind of person lol, I think that's just a great thing to know, I never bought the premades, but after reading that I wonder if perhaps there is some advantage and am off right now to check the list again lol
Lol...well I loved the idea of the deck. Certainly creative and original. I don't think it's my style though I do love combo and can't wait for more articles like this one. Glad to have you on-board.
Well first off there are some big issues with um a misplaced code or something
The article is pretty good, I always said there should be an article kind of along these lines.. casual decks that aren't budget.. sure it's nice to see decks that work at $20, but sometimes its nice to see if I can work in some stronger cards into a casual deck and see how it performs... that being said this is even a bit high end for most, but that's not always important
I had tried March + Mycosynth and had a deck that worked well, but the list went MIA so I'm glad to see another version I can take a look at trying out, I'm a little surprised tbh that it works that way with Planeswalkers and Kraj, but once you explained it, makes perfect sense, though very heavy costed
There are other options as well for decks that sit in that middle price range like Death & Taxes, which has been making a killing in DEs and LEDless dredge is maybe a step slower then with LED, but still just as powerful imo, there are a lot of people who run LEDless ichorid and do well with such
This is good stuff I'll make sure it's linked in my next look at legacy, I don't think it's panic time for Wizards at all, perhaps not even close... take for example the planeswalker deck that everyone is talking about from the SCG5k in Std... that deck runs what 600 - 700... for a STANDARD deck.. for that price you can buy into Legacy and experience a better playing environment imo... now if Wizards was going to "panic" over the price on Legacy they'd have to do so with Standard as well... perhaps they should be even more inclinded to focus on Std first because a basic idea of collectable items is that older ones gain a larger value so they'd expect Legacy to be more expensive... when Std starts to elipse that then that is when they may need to start worrying
however, this discussion is pointless however because there is very little they can do to dictate the secondary market
"But...people like to play with new cards and I can see how the attraction to standard could be overwhelming.
I guess it is just a matter of priority and money as to which format you choose to play."
The problem is not only that people want to play with new cards, they also want to test / qualifiy for Nationals Grand Prix and the Tour. So, if someone would let me choose between Legacy and T2 I think I would T2 all as long as the system works as it works.
Don't forget the limited print runs of several different sets. These small print runs really did have an effect on the 2ndary market and partially lead to high prices in sets such as Exodus.
Between that and the mythics, I think WOTC could have somewhat of an impact on the market.
I do agree with you Justsin, there are always decks in standard that have high prices which could be transferred into the necessary funds to just go ahead and purchase Legacy stuff. The legacy stuff wouldn't rotate out either and your collection value won't fall off the map like it often does during set rotation. But...people like to play with new cards and I can see how the attraction to standard could be overwhelming.
I guess it is just a matter of priority and money as to which format you choose to play.
Honestly not sure what happened Dunkle. I submitted it last week and submitted this one yesterday. I will have to get with Josh and see if it got lost in the shuffle.
that deck you talk about in std could eaisly be dropped down by about 200 dollars if wotc had not made mythics, and that would be a direct control on the secondery market.
Great article, IMHO the casual highly creative combo decks are the best way to illustrate the many possibilities offered by the game. I truly look forward to other articles in the series!
I see your decklist is 2 cards short (7+29+22=58), I suppose that was the missing Lightning Greaves probably in 2 copies, am I right?
ok the singleton
Sry flip Single tribes Humans that is just open to abuse
It is definitely the case that the increases have been more dramatic because of the short time within which they have come. Some of the staples you listed I am surprised have dropped as much as they have as they seem like answers to others that have risen. I agree that each individual has a different barrier depending on circumstances and desire. It helps if you get in on the ground floor of cards that you know will eventually shoot up. It sucks to sit there and think "if only!".
Indeed I need to get a hold of Rubinya's deck.
Really great article Markus! Very on point. If I played 100s I would certainly be interested in the decks but even though I don't I still enjoyed the thought processes. I have a friend who used to claim that I deliberately balanced my decks against each other while playing my gf. I didn't see it. But then one day I realized my main metagame was based on our daily games in the diner. I would see an interaction between decks, think on it and then work out solutions. Very rarely were these games one sided. Usually they would go over long as we stalemated until a top deck came along to wreck everything. Tweaking and changing decks is definitely a fine art that can be overdone or done carelessly, causing unforeseen consequences. Thanks for sharing and congrats on the qualifying. Hope you win it all :D
http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/EX_Soltari_Visionary.html works just fine. Though you have to insert the links by hand. (Not hard to do in HTML mode.)
Enchanted Evening combos nicely with Primeval Light which incidentally kills Moat without any help. The downside is you need some fetch to make it work well, and preferably some protection for it.
I've seen Green White Clerics a few times and I haven't been impressed but I admit Enchanted Evening does make sense with the choices you have made.
Oh and Darnation, you built unicorns before I got my chance to run them in the PRE.
Congrats on getting this published finally.
First use a spell checker on your own posts :p
That version's pretty good, as it's nice with coiling oracle also. I like a black splash for maelstrom pulse, as the deck has no permanent removal otherwise, and pulse gives it n answer to pretty much any permanent.
Anyway, I might actually be about to play this weekend! I have a pretty bonkers spirits deck, but the mana-base is barely working, so I might just bring my old-school snakes back...
I looked forward to read about Dream Halls, what happened to that article?
Btw I want the blondie with the money <3
White is overdrafted and black isnt anymore, thanks to LSV? Oh wow, people are so influencable...
@JX: We have to talk ingame any way.
Oh no! A bombo indeed. Sad as I've loved playing with this deck.
I do have a variant of the deck that uses (Chandra Ablaze)...no Kraj/Lattice/March, but in its place you can cast 10-15 instants/sorceries of any color, of your choice, the turn you go off! I'll post the list next time (but won't devote the whole article to it). Stay tuned!
Until now it wasen't.
Steppe Lynx was too good to pass and people prefered playing both Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede for even more Landfall craziness. And Kor Skyfisher was also very efficient. Oh that, and mono Red had no playable solution to Kor Firewalker.
LE
Fun deck! But I thought Wizards nerfed this combo. Ah yes, here it is:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/5...
"606
This ability was added to cover "loyalty abilities," which are activated abilities with loyalty symbols in their costs. Previous rules about planeswalkers stated that a player could activate only one of their abilities per planeswalker per turn, and could do so only at a time he or she could cast a sorcery. Now these restrictions are intrinsic to the abilities, not intrinsic to the planeswalker card type.
This was done for two reasons. 1) This makes a lot more sense if a planeswalker is granted an activated ability, as with Flame Fusillade. Activating that other ability shouldn't preclude activating a loyalty ability, and shouldn't have to be done only at a time the player could cast a sorcery. 2) This closes a loophole regarding a non-planeswalker (such as Quicksilver Elemental) that somehow picks up some loyalty abilities and goes bonkers."
I guess that the programmers haven't caught up yet. Take advantage while you still can!
The whole point of the article and your thoughts on building a better 100CS deck aside, what I found interesting in this article is this:
So a man with a decent job who also has a family and a life, can raise his rating up to 1850 and qualify for MOCS, eh? That was really encouraging. I never thought that this would be possible for people like me. I always thought MOCS and such stuff are for students and people with huge spare time. Now you proved otherwise. That might not change much for me right now but I will have it somewhere in my mind.
Thank you!
LE
Yeah I'm not quite certain what happened with the code. If anyone knows I'd be happy to revise it, or if the admins want to change it they're welcome to.
I'd love to hear folks' opinions on the large-budget casual - I'm really surprised that someone actually likes it! Even though it's the way I play, if people prefer I can very easily dial it down. My first 2 1/2 years on Magic I kept to a $10-15/month budget, so I'm well used to making do with a small cardpool.
I think most manabases can be fairly stable if they run 6-8 fetches and the rest basics, and I'm sure there's a middle ground. This deck is admittedly insane on the mana, but that's to play off of the Hermit Druid.
Agreed, the interaction is insanely costed if one doesn't "cheat" it out. I figured this was one of the more unusual ways to do it. Dream Halls could probably get the combo rolling fairly easily, but with it being the backbone of a tourney deck I didn't really want to go down that road.
first off shame on you for getting my hopes up with the Princess Bride picture, but no funny quote to back it up
this here is an article that I'll probably revisit several times, whether or not this deck is successful is almost a null point because I think this article has a stronger showing in its explanation of common pitfalls in deck building... sure I hope it works well for you, but I read through these and saw some of the same mistakes I've made before when toying with a deck, I'm going to reread this again because I'm sure there was some tip I glanced over lol, but it's really some good stuff
Great stuff, you went to big lengths to break out the deck building and it's cost and I can appreciate the time/effort that takes.. the deck is pretty cool, though I'd personally "money it up" lol one thing on Vorosh is that if you can get him in play he can do enough dmg to finish off a player in like what 3 turns? then one every turn after that? the Extractor demon part was not only interesting, but funny as well
I gotta say though one thing I wish you would have done was call a bit more attention to this last paragraph you have here... you added in a fantastic piece of advice for someone getting into the format on the price of the premade vs. the individual cards and I felt it just got a bit lost in the text, though I'm definitely a slap me in the face so I can see something right in front of me kind of person lol, I think that's just a great thing to know, I never bought the premades, but after reading that I wonder if perhaps there is some advantage and am off right now to check the list again lol
Lol...well I loved the idea of the deck. Certainly creative and original. I don't think it's my style though I do love combo and can't wait for more articles like this one. Glad to have you on-board.
Well first off there are some big issues with um a misplaced code or something
The article is pretty good, I always said there should be an article kind of along these lines.. casual decks that aren't budget.. sure it's nice to see decks that work at $20, but sometimes its nice to see if I can work in some stronger cards into a casual deck and see how it performs... that being said this is even a bit high end for most, but that's not always important
I had tried March + Mycosynth and had a deck that worked well, but the list went MIA so I'm glad to see another version I can take a look at trying out, I'm a little surprised tbh that it works that way with Planeswalkers and Kraj, but once you explained it, makes perfect sense, though very heavy costed
There are other options as well for decks that sit in that middle price range like Death & Taxes, which has been making a killing in DEs and LEDless dredge is maybe a step slower then with LED, but still just as powerful imo, there are a lot of people who run LEDless ichorid and do well with such
This is good stuff I'll make sure it's linked in my next look at legacy, I don't think it's panic time for Wizards at all, perhaps not even close... take for example the planeswalker deck that everyone is talking about from the SCG5k in Std... that deck runs what 600 - 700... for a STANDARD deck.. for that price you can buy into Legacy and experience a better playing environment imo... now if Wizards was going to "panic" over the price on Legacy they'd have to do so with Standard as well... perhaps they should be even more inclinded to focus on Std first because a basic idea of collectable items is that older ones gain a larger value so they'd expect Legacy to be more expensive... when Std starts to elipse that then that is when they may need to start worrying
however, this discussion is pointless however because there is very little they can do to dictate the secondary market
I can not wait to step down and give you my job :D