First the TP room. I completely and utterly agree with you, and you're not necessarily the person I'm talking about. I agree there's no happy medium for testing new ideas, and I'm okay with that. My complaint is when you're clearly playing against "My First Deck.dec", which seems to have been happening to me all to often. I realize how bigoted I must sound, but, there it is. I blame the software more than the players, and I think a better game finder could solve the issue. I'm reminded of a few months back in a Pauper game I played in the TP room...
Him - "Hey WTF! You can't play a Dark Ritual!"
Me - "Yes I can, it's Pauper."
Him - "Yeah, STANDARD Pauper! Can't you read!?"
Me - "Yeah [inappropriate] I can read, but you didn't specify!"
Him - "[inappropriate] game comments [inappropriate]!"
Me - "[bannable offenses] you [language that offend God and puppies]!"
Him - /quit
Turns out yeah, there's a tiny little out of the way comments field for games... Who knew! It needs a LOT of work.
Now Sea Gate Oracle! I love him to little blue pieces, really. I originally did run him in my Iona control list, but I eventually cut him in favor of leaving my turn 3 open. For me the argument comes down to him or Wall of Omens, and WoO blocks Bloodbraid Elf, so for know it's the wall. When I do find the decks where I can use him, currently in UB Control which I'm testing extensively, he shines and I love him. I just didn't like his place in the curve for my UW list as it stands, but possibly post-rotation.
LE is exactly right, there really isn't any good place for tier 1,5 or 2 decks to take shape online. This ties in with a lot of the complaints about the TNM events 2 weeks ago. I'm not even in that class of player and I see the discrepancy.
A quick question: What do you think of Sea Gate Oracle? Did you ever test it? If no, then why not? If yes, then why did you cut it at the end? I always try to find room for that guy in almost every Blue deck I build these days (as a 2of or 3of) and I never regretted that decision this far.
And about the TP Room: First of all, I get what you say. But look at things from the other side. I for example, devoted all my "Magic-life" into building and playing Tier-1,5/Tier-2 rogue decks. Some were really good and some were plain bad. But where should I play them?
Casual Room is teaching me nothing. And I most of the time bore someone with my "super-uber expensive cutthroat" tourney(!) deck. To someone enjoying their, as you say, Tome Scours and Chandra's Spitfires, my decks are incredibly powerful. I most of the time get cursed and blocked by my opponents and so I move onto the other option... which is the TP room.
And there my decks just don't cut it. People there want to test their netdecks against other netdecks and I'm disturbing them with my rogue decks. In other words, I just waste their precious time.
So yes, where do Tier-1,5/Tier-2 rogue decks fit in? They're too powerful for the Casual Room and totally irrelevant for the TP room. I guess there isn't a clear answer to this question but now that you mentioned it in your article, I wanted to point out "the difficulties of being a rogue deck designer/player".
Not so much. My rant may have been somewhat harsh, but hey. The "average" play level in the TP room is what I'd call "Entry Level FNM". Every once in a while you'll get a proven deck like Jund or Naya or UW Control, but it's usually something else. Unless you want to test against RDW, then just look for anyone posting for a Single Game for Standard XD
Regarding you opening rant. I have been playing for about 8 months now and I have never actually played in the TP room. I Guess I thought everyone in there was running a top deck and would be annoyed that I would come in with my competitive but not overpowering decks. I guess I had visions of everyone running a deck that just top 8'd a tourney.
Yeah, Ascension is one of those "Let's just get it over with..." decks. As for you quest for a JMS-Free zone, I would actually look at Polymorph. A lot of people are afraid to admit it, but Beleren actually fits the curve much better than JMS, and I think functions better for the deck as well.
I dunno... I have three M11 packs left over from the "asshole who got my password somehow, sold most of decent cards and spent all last saturday night drafting on my account" incident, so that will be my base i suppose. A couple of counterpoints to the M11 only strategy.
1)M10 has Overrun at uncommon
2)Expense, Tenth Edition packs are $1.50 cheaper.
3)If you end up controllingish, counterspell was a common in 7th edition.
An enjoying read top to bottom. Leyline of Sanctity does seem to be underutilized right now. I was thinking of doing an article this week to see if a deck running blue could be competitive without Jace 2.0 but then realized the pyromancer ascension.dec doesn't so I just answered my own question. I really don't like the ascension.dec, I usually end up losing the game 1 to it but after a good SB walk all over it. Just bring out some enchant hate and graveyard removal.
Your UW control does look powerful and I always dread that matchup. My time seems to be spent putting together decks that don't run blue that can compete with the field AND that matchup.
A good tourney write up walker. It is nice to see Legacy stuff again. I think many people aren't completely sure how this deck works, maybe further explanation of card choices would be helpful to some of the newcomers to legacy. Beating dredge twice makes me smile, I hate that deck!
thanks flips for running this, i know the comment is late, but I've had net issues, I def see this seasons league being heavy heavy m11 because its that good.. ive done some drafts and already won my packs needed for the league lol
I'll definitely play again. I do think this experience demonstrated the power level has changed a great deal since tsp. My time spiral heavy pool had some of the worst remov ever printed. My stronghold overseer was the star of my deck. There wAs simply no one in theleague who could block him and he won me a couple of games with his ability to nerf.
But... but... Dredge is what I'm going to start playing until I can buy FoW's...
Can we still be friends?
First the TP room. I completely and utterly agree with you, and you're not necessarily the person I'm talking about. I agree there's no happy medium for testing new ideas, and I'm okay with that. My complaint is when you're clearly playing against "My First Deck.dec", which seems to have been happening to me all to often. I realize how bigoted I must sound, but, there it is. I blame the software more than the players, and I think a better game finder could solve the issue. I'm reminded of a few months back in a Pauper game I played in the TP room...
Him - "Hey WTF! You can't play a Dark Ritual!"
Me - "Yes I can, it's Pauper."
Him - "Yeah, STANDARD Pauper! Can't you read!?"
Me - "Yeah [inappropriate] I can read, but you didn't specify!"
Him - "[inappropriate] game comments [inappropriate]!"
Me - "[bannable offenses] you [language that offend God and puppies]!"
Him - /quit
Turns out yeah, there's a tiny little out of the way comments field for games... Who knew! It needs a LOT of work.
Now Sea Gate Oracle! I love him to little blue pieces, really. I originally did run him in my Iona control list, but I eventually cut him in favor of leaving my turn 3 open. For me the argument comes down to him or Wall of Omens, and WoO blocks Bloodbraid Elf, so for know it's the wall. When I do find the decks where I can use him, currently in UB Control which I'm testing extensively, he shines and I love him. I just didn't like his place in the curve for my UW list as it stands, but possibly post-rotation.
LE is exactly right, there really isn't any good place for tier 1,5 or 2 decks to take shape online. This ties in with a lot of the complaints about the TNM events 2 weeks ago. I'm not even in that class of player and I see the discrepancy.
A quick question: What do you think of Sea Gate Oracle? Did you ever test it? If no, then why not? If yes, then why did you cut it at the end? I always try to find room for that guy in almost every Blue deck I build these days (as a 2of or 3of) and I never regretted that decision this far.
And about the TP Room: First of all, I get what you say. But look at things from the other side. I for example, devoted all my "Magic-life" into building and playing Tier-1,5/Tier-2 rogue decks. Some were really good and some were plain bad. But where should I play them?
Casual Room is teaching me nothing. And I most of the time bore someone with my "super-uber expensive cutthroat" tourney(!) deck. To someone enjoying their, as you say, Tome Scours and Chandra's Spitfires, my decks are incredibly powerful. I most of the time get cursed and blocked by my opponents and so I move onto the other option... which is the TP room.
And there my decks just don't cut it. People there want to test their netdecks against other netdecks and I'm disturbing them with my rogue decks. In other words, I just waste their precious time.
So yes, where do Tier-1,5/Tier-2 rogue decks fit in? They're too powerful for the Casual Room and totally irrelevant for the TP room. I guess there isn't a clear answer to this question but now that you mentioned it in your article, I wanted to point out "the difficulties of being a rogue deck designer/player".
Waiting you reply about Sea Gate Oracle.
LE
Not so much. My rant may have been somewhat harsh, but hey. The "average" play level in the TP room is what I'd call "Entry Level FNM". Every once in a while you'll get a proven deck like Jund or Naya or UW Control, but it's usually something else. Unless you want to test against RDW, then just look for anyone posting for a Single Game for Standard XD
Regarding you opening rant. I have been playing for about 8 months now and I have never actually played in the TP room. I Guess I thought everyone in there was running a top deck and would be annoyed that I would come in with my competitive but not overpowering decks. I guess I had visions of everyone running a deck that just top 8'd a tourney.
Yeah, Ascension is one of those "Let's just get it over with..." decks. As for you quest for a JMS-Free zone, I would actually look at Polymorph. A lot of people are afraid to admit it, but Beleren actually fits the curve much better than JMS, and I think functions better for the deck as well.
1) I still need to actually qualify, and Standard is my strongest game right now. Winning = QP's = Playing in the MOC
2) I'm playing in the August 18th - September 15th season, which ends with a Standard tourney and a crappy promo (But that's not the point!)
I dunno... I have three M11 packs left over from the "asshole who got my password somehow, sold most of decent cards and spent all last saturday night drafting on my account" incident, so that will be my base i suppose. A couple of counterpoints to the M11 only strategy.
1)M10 has Overrun at uncommon
2)Expense, Tenth Edition packs are $1.50 cheaper.
3)If you end up controllingish, counterspell was a common in 7th edition.
An enjoying read top to bottom. Leyline of Sanctity does seem to be underutilized right now. I was thinking of doing an article this week to see if a deck running blue could be competitive without Jace 2.0 but then realized the pyromancer ascension.dec doesn't so I just answered my own question. I really don't like the ascension.dec, I usually end up losing the game 1 to it but after a good SB walk all over it. Just bring out some enchant hate and graveyard removal.
Your UW control does look powerful and I always dread that matchup. My time seems to be spent putting together decks that don't run blue that can compete with the field AND that matchup.
A good tourney write up walker. It is nice to see Legacy stuff again. I think many people aren't completely sure how this deck works, maybe further explanation of card choices would be helpful to some of the newcomers to legacy. Beating dredge twice makes me smile, I hate that deck!
I don't understand why you are testing UW control for MOCS, i thought MOCS is M11 sealed this season?
rating the article
--- disregard ---
thanks flips for running this, i know the comment is late, but I've had net issues, I def see this seasons league being heavy heavy m11 because its that good.. ive done some drafts and already won my packs needed for the league lol
I'll definitely play again. I do think this experience demonstrated the power level has changed a great deal since tsp. My time spiral heavy pool had some of the worst remov ever printed. My stronghold overseer was the star of my deck. There wAs simply no one in theleague who could block him and he won me a couple of games with his ability to nerf.
Hahaha, I think you'd do just fine against me. Clearly, I'm no pro either.
they didnt.
I remember that first Rith deck. I actually went out and built it. Keep up the articles.
As long as the word concede doesn't enter the conversation, they have recently stated that they pretty much do not care.
I actually think they mixed up the chart and swapped column 2 and 3
Nice Bribery :/
Especially since MTGO just sent out a message that they are going to hunt people that do offers like that. Prepare for inactivity on your account :S
Thanks for a fabulous article, has really got my creative juices following.
Oh, I see.. sweet..
@lenney: he offered me 7 packs, and from what I remember his deck looked quite good so I was in no position to turn that kind of offer down.