LOL, yeah terramorphic expanse expanse is a rather hated card for me too. Mainly because I would have been 4-1 at FNM if I had Misty Rainforests instead of expanses, but it was not the case. And go buy some beads or dice. lol you dont need actual tokens. haha.
Last time I played paper Magic was during Time Spiral block. As much as it feels good to have the physical cards in your hand, I'm convinced that MtG is a digital game. The stack, the things the game "checks", the counters, tokens, your life total, triggered effects, storm counts, the mana pools, shuffling effects... the list goes on. A computer excels at the task of keeping track of all those elements. I can't imagine myself playing with cardboard again.
Anyway, back in the day, to solve the problem of buying tokens (you did not get tokens out of boosters during time spiral block), I usually had only one token of each type my deck needed. I used a die on the singleton token to indicate how many of that token I had in play. It is not a perfect solution, since sometimes you are not going to tap all your tokens, but it was good enough, and it saved space at the table.
Number 1=Leagues! It seems Oh so long ago that I was adding a pack at a time to a already built "sealed" deck....sniff, sniff...I whole-heartily agree with all points in this article as well as WW's mention of Classifieds and binders. I also would love your collection binder to add together different prints of cards(even if just in text form rather than visual)..it's irritating to see that I have 4 Apoc Ragers, then 4 X edition, then 4 MBS versions...etc etc..would make putting up extras for trade sooooo much easier. I just hope they have put thought, time and effort into this one...maybe I'll get picked for Beta and let you all know. :-)
For some time now I've been thinking about playing classic. For the sake of the argument, let's say I have some cash I can invest to buy the format staples, like FoW, LED, Wasteland, mana bases, not to mention other expensive cards like big Jace and Goyf. Ok, good. But let's say that the problem is not cash, but instead the problem is that I don't have much time to spend online. Is it reasonable to expect that I'll find DEs firing during weekday nights? Or that I can play a two men queue whenever I have an hour to spend, without waiting a lot in the queue?
I'd like to invest in classic, but I'm afraid I'm not going to find opponents to play because there are few events and there's a real chance that those events are not going to fire. Is it a realistic assumption?
That's a very nice article, congratulations. It's the kind of article we were used to expect from Hamstatic. Now that he is not here anymore, it's good to see that there are other community leaders (I agree with your humble opinion) that can take the mantle and write community articles.
Now, talking about the part of the community you are best known for, I have a quick question. I'll post it in the Penguin TV article, since it's about classic. So, please take a look there when you get some spare time. :)
I never considered Mass Polymorph because a)it requires tokens! and b)it's just not a fair card. "Not fair" as in not fun when played at the kitchen table.
One thing I realized after I bought the decks (so yeah, I did end up buying some decks) is how boring Terramorphic Expanse is! Each time it shows up you play it, sac it, search the deck for a land and then shuffle the deck. Then you draw another one and do all those things again. Shuffling takes long and is very boring! So Terramorphic Expanse is nowadays the card I hate the most.
Strangely I was thinking about this very subject recently and most of your comments hit right where I would expect and want them to.
Id love to see the way classifieds works changed too. Being able to uprate or downrate an ad or just not see ads from people that are on our blocked list would be wonderful.
In game rooms a more usable interface would be preferred, so as to make find games to watch, replay or join easier. Being able to see your buddies and clannies in games easier would be insane.
In your binders Id love to have presets like wishlists loadable from a text editable file the exact same way wishlists work now in your trade partner's trade screen, this would make organizing the cards much much easier. (Want to trade that deck to your friend? Just load the preset for it and everything else becomes untradable while the cards in it become tradable, which you can then adjust.) Or alternatively have them able to become separate binders.
Being able to have an expanded block list with some color coding for easy identification of why someone was blocked would be great. Also being able to do the same with buddies would make the buddy list much more functional. The buddies list should at least have a notes section for each buddy the way the blocked list does.
In multiplayer if you have a player leave, their screen space should be reoccupied by those players still in the game.
Personally I don't think Foils can be improved much. They will always be not my thing. But if WOTC got rid of them, that would definitely hurt some people a lot who enjoy the difference and the $ factor involved.
RE: Leave the House achievement, yeah I need this for motivation. :p
Probably the most important thing you touched on is the return of Leagues. Not that I would be able to participate in many of them but I have friends with extensive collections and interest who just don't have the time to join Sealed or Draft queues and wait for them to fire who would love being able to join a league and then fit games in between work etc.
"Where people reckon something with their gut..." that isn't generational my friend but human nature at it's finest. (Ala the inquisition for example, and McCarthyism. :D)
I like the occasional look at paper magic. Ive been playing UGr Mass Polymorph at FNM the past couple weeks to top 8 finishes each time. And your token arguments were quite humorous. The shop owenr I go to will just give out tokens for free if you're buying other cards though must of us just tend to use dice to represent cretaures and move them to one side of the play field or the other to indicate them being tapped. Because I agree spending money on them does get incredulous.
I'm liking Comet Storm over Titan's Revenge, can act as mass removal in a pinch. 7 Cultivates/Reach seem great as well, but sometimes I want 1-2 Rampant Growth or Search for Tomorrow instead...
I note your concern and I apologize if I offend you, I'll try not to be so blatant in the future (if it was me). Keep in mind it is completely legal in my state and the volume is due to the fact that I have to amplify my mic 2x during editing to make sure I sound louder than a faint whisper. I'll try to be more respectful moving forward. Thanks for the heads up.
I was the dredge player, and was trying out the Forbidden Orchards over Cities of Brass for the oath matchup (to slow them down, however long), though I'm still not sold on how well they're doing. The extra body typically didn't seem to matter that much, though I'm still pretty new to the deck. An extra turn feels pretty big to me, esp when they fetch out Blightsteel.
Unfortunatley we cannot regulate the action of our guests. Can you be convinced that the noise you hear is Whiffy's cat using his gas-fired jacuzzi? Seriously though I share your concerns Jacobs and will be setting ground rules and ensure that our guests behave.
I am a loyal listener to your podcast and a long time customer of mtgo traders. However, I would appreciate it if whoever feels the need to hit the bong during the recording would stop. The lighter flicks and bubbling are ridiculous. It takes away from your credibility as far as I am concerned. I'm sure some listeners will see it the same way as I do, and others will probably tell me to mind my own business. Perhaps you are not aware that we can hear these noises? Appreciate your consideration to quit during podcasts. Thanks.
to an extent, buy in is too high for new players and most players in general who either sold staples a long time ago/never had them, etc. I agree with your sentiment that Classic's brokeness is a factor, one I believe makes Legacy more popular. But I also know that simple numbers would help, yes, more people would play Legacy as more copies get released, but just out of sheer curiosity or boredom or whatever Classic would see an increase. It seems backwards to me to have more people playing a format where the cards rotate every year as opposed to being able to play with cards you acquire over a career of playing. I remember a time before sanctioned tournaments became big business(paper) where most people played decks that ranged from Legends to Tempest cards because that is what they had, I'm not talking the Finkel's or Budde's of the world, but your average player on the street. You couldn't throw a rock without hitting someone playing Ball Lightning, Bloodlust, Fling in my area because those were cards that had been accumulated over the years. I understand that Standard is a "level playing field" and a smaller pool of cards makes all the iterations easier to find, but come on availability in quantity and price are big pieces of that puzzle as well. Yes, you get the random JTMS that gets to ridiculous heights because it warps the format and everyone plays it, but those $30+ cards are much less common in standard which is a factor in how many people play. I'm not saying the main factor or anything, but a factor none the less. I, for example, do not play standard because I never opened a Jace or saw one under 40 at any point and did not want to trade half of my stuff for a play set(ok half might be exag. but still) so I basically(along with 4 friends) said OK...starting with SOM lets start over and wait for the rotation. Of course, I still pick up Classics here and there, and I don't want the format to die, so I feel rushed to try and pick up these high priced cards so that I can be part of a queue and perhaps help an event fire more often, but with their prices I simply cannot. My dancing on the grave was a bit of facetiousness, kind of a "I love you but I hate you" mentality. I guess my belief that monetary being the biggest barrier is because no one has access to the Power 9, and game play can be improved with practice but you need the cards to practice with. Whether it's legacy or classic buy in is simply too high for many people that would otherwise give it a go and as you mentioned and I agree, Legacy fires more because between it and Classic...legacy is less broken...still doesn't change the fact that more cards from these power decks would decrease cost thus increase player pool, for both formats.
A bunch of MED1,2,3, 4 is about to come into the system. Cards from those sets are probably going to fall in price over the next two weeks - including Force of Will (in fact, it's already started to drop in anticipation)
Sorry, I'm an OG in that I dismiss people who talk about things erroneously. That's just how I roll. Calling that Shop deck a thousand dollar deck was just plain wrong. Saying that cheaper prices would bring droves of player I also believe is probably wrong, since, as I said, you can't make people love Classic and Legacy is increasing in popularity in spite of the prices. You didn't really address those points at all.
I have no Force of Will. I want Force of Will. I also have no Metalworkers to bring my Shop deck up to pace. I'm not saying I wouldn't love cheaper cards, but you haven't even addressed what I said about the prices of truly Classic staples not being particularly high and that Legacy is pushing price points way more than Classic. If memory serves me correctly, we are now at 10 consistent StarCityGames Legacy Opens won by decks with 4 x Force of Will. If you want to go headhunting about formats with barriers to entry, look to Legacy. But I feel you won't be warmly received as the data show an increasing interest in that format, regardless of what you or your friends think.
I accused you of trying to put the kibosh on Classic because you were all but dancing on its grave in your elation over the desire for Modern.
Again, and finally, why do you think the problem with Classic is monetary and not regarding actual game play or the elephant in the room, Power 9, considering Legacy's buy-in is relatively the same and is a format on the ascent? If Store A's hot cakes are not selling and Store B's hot cakes are selling like hot cakes, and both Stores have the same price, why do you think price is the reason why Store A's hot cakes aren't selling?
If you're patient you can pick these cards up cheaper over time. This year alone so far we have had two NixTix events for Tempest and Mirage block with packs in the store. Lots of stuff gets opened and prices in the Classifieds plummet. Bots stop buying and drafters get desperate to keep drafting and sell their wares. =)
Depending how much you have to spend, Shop decks are pretty good and cheap for their power level. The only barrier is Wasteland, really. The Workshops are under $20, the creature base is ruinously cheap (as in a couple bucks for Duplicant and Wurmcoil, and even less for Lodestone Golem). Metalworkers are a tad expensive, and I haven't bought them yet either. =( In a nutshell, the deck isn't exactly cheap, and we still have to bear the brunt of Tangle Wire I imagine, but still, if you're thinking long term, it's a good choice.
Again, the Nix Tix events go a long way here. Wastelands were being bought and sold in the $30s last Nix Tix, and that was just before GP Providence when everyone was testing Legacy to death. A few of the pricey Shop cards are found in Tempest block (Wasteland, City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance), most of which I picked up cheaply during Nix Tix from humans.
It depends if you want to run matches in the TP room or start joining events. My ultimate advice to you is watch some Classic and see what you like, and go from there. Spending $200 on a deck you hate playing vs. $500 on a deck you love is really a no-brainer in the long run.
If many, many, many players feel the same way...it's just PERCEPTION. I agree with you that Classic is busted, but I don't see how anyone can argue that more copies of classic staples wouldn't lead to more classic players. Stop accusing me of trolling, I have been on these boards longer than many of you, it really just comes off as a lack of argument to what I say to just put "he's trolling blah blah". Am I confrontational about it, you bet, because it always seems to be the same people, the same arguments, over and over...and why? Because the answers I give aren't what "collectors" want to hear and my solutions have never been tried. I am not saying just give out thousands of copies to everyone, that is the only thing I can assume some of you think I am saying. I am saying bring back ME for a month or whatever, I am very happy about the ME4 events coming up as hopefully that will drop some of these cards a bit, although I doubt it will help too much. As for the insults and name calling, I do apologize, but your response to me was not a constructive one either. I also agree that knowledge and play skill is a barrier, but when Player A spends even 250 on a deck and goes to play, gets rolled, where is he left to go? His budget for the month/quarter/year is shot and he basically has 1 good classic deck....you don't see how it would be pretty sweet if his deck only cost 100, and perhaps now he could put another 150 into getting the deck that rolled him, watching the replays to see how that player piloted it, etc. That is just foolish if you don't. I love playing with the old Magic cards, I have been since the game was damn near created, I am always getting my friends to buy old commons and uncommons or crap rares to build stuff out of...we aren't competitive and we know it, so no we do not waste out tix to enter tournies, but to accuse me of trying to "turn off potential classic players" is just what you accuse me of "a big pile of steaming..." You don't have to like or agree with my point of view, but don't dare dismiss it as just me, these thoughts and comments are from a pretty large group of people and have been around for years.
You have Pauper becoming sanctioned to thank for that.
Like MMogg said - these cards aren't expensive because classic is around. Legacy and Pauper are doing the trick, since so many more people play those formats.
Dredge is still cheap to play. Dunno about < 200 but probably close
Well ok...I use to play classic but last summer I sold all my cards before I went off to college, and now I deeply regret that decision. It seems like all prices have become grossly inflated in the year I was gone (5 dollars for a lotus petal?) with the sole exception being the dual lands (underground sea was around 70 last year). So pragmatically speaking, what is the best entry level deck? Clearly anything with FOW is too expensive, is there a single deck that is cheaper but still effective, like <200?
Ugh I want the RWU and UBG decks so bad in paper
LOL, yeah terramorphic expanse expanse is a rather hated card for me too. Mainly because I would have been 4-1 at FNM if I had Misty Rainforests instead of expanses, but it was not the case. And go buy some beads or dice. lol you dont need actual tokens. haha.
Thanks
Last time I played paper Magic was during Time Spiral block. As much as it feels good to have the physical cards in your hand, I'm convinced that MtG is a digital game. The stack, the things the game "checks", the counters, tokens, your life total, triggered effects, storm counts, the mana pools, shuffling effects... the list goes on. A computer excels at the task of keeping track of all those elements. I can't imagine myself playing with cardboard again.
Anyway, back in the day, to solve the problem of buying tokens (you did not get tokens out of boosters during time spiral block), I usually had only one token of each type my deck needed. I used a die on the singleton token to indicate how many of that token I had in play. It is not a perfect solution, since sometimes you are not going to tap all your tokens, but it was good enough, and it saved space at the table.
Number 1=Leagues! It seems Oh so long ago that I was adding a pack at a time to a already built "sealed" deck....sniff, sniff...I whole-heartily agree with all points in this article as well as WW's mention of Classifieds and binders. I also would love your collection binder to add together different prints of cards(even if just in text form rather than visual)..it's irritating to see that I have 4 Apoc Ragers, then 4 X edition, then 4 MBS versions...etc etc..would make putting up extras for trade sooooo much easier. I just hope they have put thought, time and effort into this one...maybe I'll get picked for Beta and let you all know. :-)
For some time now I've been thinking about playing classic. For the sake of the argument, let's say I have some cash I can invest to buy the format staples, like FoW, LED, Wasteland, mana bases, not to mention other expensive cards like big Jace and Goyf. Ok, good. But let's say that the problem is not cash, but instead the problem is that I don't have much time to spend online. Is it reasonable to expect that I'll find DEs firing during weekday nights? Or that I can play a two men queue whenever I have an hour to spend, without waiting a lot in the queue?
I'd like to invest in classic, but I'm afraid I'm not going to find opponents to play because there are few events and there's a real chance that those events are not going to fire. Is it a realistic assumption?
That's a very nice article, congratulations. It's the kind of article we were used to expect from Hamstatic. Now that he is not here anymore, it's good to see that there are other community leaders (I agree with your humble opinion) that can take the mantle and write community articles.
Now, talking about the part of the community you are best known for, I have a quick question. I'll post it in the Penguin TV article, since it's about classic. So, please take a look there when you get some spare time. :)
JP.
RE: Ruhan. Nope. The trigger forces you to either attack the chosen player or not attack with him.
I never considered Mass Polymorph because a)it requires tokens! and b)it's just not a fair card. "Not fair" as in not fun when played at the kitchen table.
One thing I realized after I bought the decks (so yeah, I did end up buying some decks) is how boring Terramorphic Expanse is! Each time it shows up you play it, sac it, search the deck for a land and then shuffle the deck. Then you draw another one and do all those things again. Shuffling takes long and is very boring! So Terramorphic Expanse is nowadays the card I hate the most.
LE
Strangely I was thinking about this very subject recently and most of your comments hit right where I would expect and want them to.
Id love to see the way classifieds works changed too. Being able to uprate or downrate an ad or just not see ads from people that are on our blocked list would be wonderful.
In game rooms a more usable interface would be preferred, so as to make find games to watch, replay or join easier. Being able to see your buddies and clannies in games easier would be insane.
In your binders Id love to have presets like wishlists loadable from a text editable file the exact same way wishlists work now in your trade partner's trade screen, this would make organizing the cards much much easier. (Want to trade that deck to your friend? Just load the preset for it and everything else becomes untradable while the cards in it become tradable, which you can then adjust.) Or alternatively have them able to become separate binders.
Being able to have an expanded block list with some color coding for easy identification of why someone was blocked would be great. Also being able to do the same with buddies would make the buddy list much more functional. The buddies list should at least have a notes section for each buddy the way the blocked list does.
In multiplayer if you have a player leave, their screen space should be reoccupied by those players still in the game.
Personally I don't think Foils can be improved much. They will always be not my thing. But if WOTC got rid of them, that would definitely hurt some people a lot who enjoy the difference and the $ factor involved.
RE: Leave the House achievement, yeah I need this for motivation. :p
Probably the most important thing you touched on is the return of Leagues. Not that I would be able to participate in many of them but I have friends with extensive collections and interest who just don't have the time to join Sealed or Draft queues and wait for them to fire who would love being able to join a league and then fit games in between work etc.
"Where people reckon something with their gut..." that isn't generational my friend but human nature at it's finest. (Ala the inquisition for example, and McCarthyism. :D)
I like the occasional look at paper magic. Ive been playing UGr Mass Polymorph at FNM the past couple weeks to top 8 finishes each time. And your token arguments were quite humorous. The shop owenr I go to will just give out tokens for free if you're buying other cards though must of us just tend to use dice to represent cretaures and move them to one side of the play field or the other to indicate them being tapped. Because I agree spending money on them does get incredulous.
I'm liking Comet Storm over Titan's Revenge, can act as mass removal in a pinch. 7 Cultivates/Reach seem great as well, but sometimes I want 1-2 Rampant Growth or Search for Tomorrow instead...
but powder or no powder...that is the question!! lol..
I note your concern and I apologize if I offend you, I'll try not to be so blatant in the future (if it was me). Keep in mind it is completely legal in my state and the volume is due to the fact that I have to amplify my mic 2x during editing to make sure I sound louder than a faint whisper. I'll try to be more respectful moving forward. Thanks for the heads up.
Zach
I was the dredge player, and was trying out the Forbidden Orchards over Cities of Brass for the oath matchup (to slow them down, however long), though I'm still not sold on how well they're doing. The extra body typically didn't seem to matter that much, though I'm still pretty new to the deck. An extra turn feels pretty big to me, esp when they fetch out Blightsteel.
Unfortunatley we cannot regulate the action of our guests. Can you be convinced that the noise you hear is Whiffy's cat using his gas-fired jacuzzi? Seriously though I share your concerns Jacobs and will be setting ground rules and ensure that our guests behave.
I am a loyal listener to your podcast and a long time customer of mtgo traders. However, I would appreciate it if whoever feels the need to hit the bong during the recording would stop. The lighter flicks and bubbling are ridiculous. It takes away from your credibility as far as I am concerned. I'm sure some listeners will see it the same way as I do, and others will probably tell me to mind my own business. Perhaps you are not aware that we can hear these noises? Appreciate your consideration to quit during podcasts. Thanks.
to an extent, buy in is too high for new players and most players in general who either sold staples a long time ago/never had them, etc. I agree with your sentiment that Classic's brokeness is a factor, one I believe makes Legacy more popular. But I also know that simple numbers would help, yes, more people would play Legacy as more copies get released, but just out of sheer curiosity or boredom or whatever Classic would see an increase. It seems backwards to me to have more people playing a format where the cards rotate every year as opposed to being able to play with cards you acquire over a career of playing. I remember a time before sanctioned tournaments became big business(paper) where most people played decks that ranged from Legends to Tempest cards because that is what they had, I'm not talking the Finkel's or Budde's of the world, but your average player on the street. You couldn't throw a rock without hitting someone playing Ball Lightning, Bloodlust, Fling in my area because those were cards that had been accumulated over the years. I understand that Standard is a "level playing field" and a smaller pool of cards makes all the iterations easier to find, but come on availability in quantity and price are big pieces of that puzzle as well. Yes, you get the random JTMS that gets to ridiculous heights because it warps the format and everyone plays it, but those $30+ cards are much less common in standard which is a factor in how many people play. I'm not saying the main factor or anything, but a factor none the less. I, for example, do not play standard because I never opened a Jace or saw one under 40 at any point and did not want to trade half of my stuff for a play set(ok half might be exag. but still) so I basically(along with 4 friends) said OK...starting with SOM lets start over and wait for the rotation. Of course, I still pick up Classics here and there, and I don't want the format to die, so I feel rushed to try and pick up these high priced cards so that I can be part of a queue and perhaps help an event fire more often, but with their prices I simply cannot. My dancing on the grave was a bit of facetiousness, kind of a "I love you but I hate you" mentality. I guess my belief that monetary being the biggest barrier is because no one has access to the Power 9, and game play can be improved with practice but you need the cards to practice with. Whether it's legacy or classic buy in is simply too high for many people that would otherwise give it a go and as you mentioned and I agree, Legacy fires more because between it and Classic...legacy is less broken...still doesn't change the fact that more cards from these power decks would decrease cost thus increase player pool, for both formats.
A bunch of MED1,2,3, 4 is about to come into the system. Cards from those sets are probably going to fall in price over the next two weeks - including Force of Will (in fact, it's already started to drop in anticipation)
Sorry, I'm an OG in that I dismiss people who talk about things erroneously. That's just how I roll. Calling that Shop deck a thousand dollar deck was just plain wrong. Saying that cheaper prices would bring droves of player I also believe is probably wrong, since, as I said, you can't make people love Classic and Legacy is increasing in popularity in spite of the prices. You didn't really address those points at all.
I have no Force of Will. I want Force of Will. I also have no Metalworkers to bring my Shop deck up to pace. I'm not saying I wouldn't love cheaper cards, but you haven't even addressed what I said about the prices of truly Classic staples not being particularly high and that Legacy is pushing price points way more than Classic. If memory serves me correctly, we are now at 10 consistent StarCityGames Legacy Opens won by decks with 4 x Force of Will. If you want to go headhunting about formats with barriers to entry, look to Legacy. But I feel you won't be warmly received as the data show an increasing interest in that format, regardless of what you or your friends think.
I accused you of trying to put the kibosh on Classic because you were all but dancing on its grave in your elation over the desire for Modern.
Again, and finally, why do you think the problem with Classic is monetary and not regarding actual game play or the elephant in the room, Power 9, considering Legacy's buy-in is relatively the same and is a format on the ascent? If Store A's hot cakes are not selling and Store B's hot cakes are selling like hot cakes, and both Stores have the same price, why do you think price is the reason why Store A's hot cakes aren't selling?
If you're patient you can pick these cards up cheaper over time. This year alone so far we have had two NixTix events for Tempest and Mirage block with packs in the store. Lots of stuff gets opened and prices in the Classifieds plummet. Bots stop buying and drafters get desperate to keep drafting and sell their wares. =)
Depending how much you have to spend, Shop decks are pretty good and cheap for their power level. The only barrier is Wasteland, really. The Workshops are under $20, the creature base is ruinously cheap (as in a couple bucks for Duplicant and Wurmcoil, and even less for Lodestone Golem). Metalworkers are a tad expensive, and I haven't bought them yet either. =( In a nutshell, the deck isn't exactly cheap, and we still have to bear the brunt of Tangle Wire I imagine, but still, if you're thinking long term, it's a good choice.
Again, the Nix Tix events go a long way here. Wastelands were being bought and sold in the $30s last Nix Tix, and that was just before GP Providence when everyone was testing Legacy to death. A few of the pricey Shop cards are found in Tempest block (Wasteland, City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance), most of which I picked up cheaply during Nix Tix from humans.
It depends if you want to run matches in the TP room or start joining events. My ultimate advice to you is watch some Classic and see what you like, and go from there. Spending $200 on a deck you hate playing vs. $500 on a deck you love is really a no-brainer in the long run.
If many, many, many players feel the same way...it's just PERCEPTION. I agree with you that Classic is busted, but I don't see how anyone can argue that more copies of classic staples wouldn't lead to more classic players. Stop accusing me of trolling, I have been on these boards longer than many of you, it really just comes off as a lack of argument to what I say to just put "he's trolling blah blah". Am I confrontational about it, you bet, because it always seems to be the same people, the same arguments, over and over...and why? Because the answers I give aren't what "collectors" want to hear and my solutions have never been tried. I am not saying just give out thousands of copies to everyone, that is the only thing I can assume some of you think I am saying. I am saying bring back ME for a month or whatever, I am very happy about the ME4 events coming up as hopefully that will drop some of these cards a bit, although I doubt it will help too much. As for the insults and name calling, I do apologize, but your response to me was not a constructive one either. I also agree that knowledge and play skill is a barrier, but when Player A spends even 250 on a deck and goes to play, gets rolled, where is he left to go? His budget for the month/quarter/year is shot and he basically has 1 good classic deck....you don't see how it would be pretty sweet if his deck only cost 100, and perhaps now he could put another 150 into getting the deck that rolled him, watching the replays to see how that player piloted it, etc. That is just foolish if you don't. I love playing with the old Magic cards, I have been since the game was damn near created, I am always getting my friends to buy old commons and uncommons or crap rares to build stuff out of...we aren't competitive and we know it, so no we do not waste out tix to enter tournies, but to accuse me of trying to "turn off potential classic players" is just what you accuse me of "a big pile of steaming..." You don't have to like or agree with my point of view, but don't dare dismiss it as just me, these thoughts and comments are from a pretty large group of people and have been around for years.
You have Pauper becoming sanctioned to thank for that.
Like MMogg said - these cards aren't expensive because classic is around. Legacy and Pauper are doing the trick, since so many more people play those formats.
Dredge is still cheap to play. Dunno about < 200 but probably close
Well ok...I use to play classic but last summer I sold all my cards before I went off to college, and now I deeply regret that decision. It seems like all prices have become grossly inflated in the year I was gone (5 dollars for a lotus petal?) with the sole exception being the dual lands (underground sea was around 70 last year). So pragmatically speaking, what is the best entry level deck? Clearly anything with FOW is too expensive, is there a single deck that is cheaper but still effective, like <200?