Craig, to be honest I never needed Kiki because, as you say, Urabrask + Emrakul is always gg ("always" as in without exception). No need to make things complicated. I just get them out and the game is over.
Besides Eldrazi are important because I use Eye of Ugin. If you watched the videos you saw that most of the time my win came through fetching either Emrakul or Kozilek with Eye of Ugin and hardcasting them. This is another reason why I don't need (or in other words: can't run) Kiki because she doesn't work with the Eldrazi.
man thats sum good red flowin ur way, my draft pax never seem to look like that, once maybe.it makes me wanna try my luck, i bet that was ur plan all along though...
Why Urabask instead of Kiki Jiki? Sure, it works with Emrakul where Kiki doesn't, but it is even more disruptable with creature kill or bounce than Kiki is. At least with Kiki-Jiki + BSC you get a hasted 11/11 infect even if Kiki-Jiki gets killed immediately.
If they don't have an answer for your red hasty creature, Urabask + Emrakul most likely nets you 15 damage and your opponent is down 6 permanents. That might be gg but it might not, whereas Kiki-Jiki + Deceiver Exarch or Sky Hussar would get you as much damage as you need for the win.
This is great. The episodes keep getting better. Agree with a little more enthusiasm.
@ Gardevi- Congrats on your top8. I love the deck. I have been playing it a bunch on MTGO. It doesn't feel like it has too many bad match ups. UB is winnable, as the early disruption game 1 actually can help get counters on Ascension and they have sooo many dead cards, and no one ever knows what you are going to do g2: Am I playing Sphinx or Twin combo? Am I even siding them in? etc... The thing I am most impressed about is the pure draw power of Preordain + Ponder + Fetch Lands. You can dig so deep with this deck, that it has the same kind of "oops, I win" clause as Valakut does.
Good work, both of you.
Least favorite mechanic: Has to be Dredge. I have played Dredge and it doesn't even feel like Magic. You play by a different subset of rules, where your graveyard is your hand and milling your self is good. I like abusing your graveyard (flashback) and discard (madness), but this archetype was a thorn in the side of tournament play for a while.
@Agur- Are you going to feature UB this week on Agur's View? The deck seems like your cup of tea. "This deck is a thing of pure beauty".
You did not gush over Pyromancer Ascension _nearly_ enough. :P
Great episode, but was there really only US Nats this week and that's it? I'd like to see you expand into Legacy when you feel comfortable enough to; there's a lot of information on that format and it's still relevant to people's interests, thanks to SCG.
I love the format that you have come up with to provide quick bits of information about what is going on in competitive magic. You speak in a very clear and controlled manner, which makes it easy to follow you. In the future, I would try and pick up your level of enthusiasm. I feel like I can hear you reading from a script. I am sure as you continue to develop the project that you will find a comfortable groove.
You are a hardcore contributor to the site and I hope you keep it going.
Walkerdog: Thanks for the encouragement. Mtgo can be quite the distraction and I'm trying to cut down on it somewhere. Hopefully the next mocs does not have an enticing promo.
Without tournaments to support the less popular formats, they can be quite expensive to upkeep. =(
Sensei: I would agree that Legacy would be a good choice now. Many viable decks, more interactions and quite skill testing. Sad to see 100c singleton die out as a tournament format. I do still make some neat decks every now and then. =)
1. Standstill is good against the poorer matchups of the deck. Mishra's factory makes a very good complement to it so you can usually drop standstill in the face of a small singular threat without worrying too much. The deck already has a good matchup against it's better matchups so I'm for anything that gives me more edge against my bad matchups and standstill is much more relevant in those especially when I can't wait until turn 4 for my cards.
However, with standstill, you need to plan how to maneuver factories properly and that can be quite skill testing. I think I need a little more work with that against the matchups that like to hold cards.
2. Getting to 4 mana is a problem in itself. I see jace frequent enough to not come to the point that I feel that I need more. He's good and all but you always have to have controlled the board moderately before you pop him down. 2 in hand is always a small problem in itself. I don't ever foresee needing more than 3 in an eternal format. Tezz maybe (for being a direct win con itself in classic) but not jace. If I had a blank space to fill in the deck, I wouldn't consider jace.
3. I'm ok with 3 deeds. Deed although being the most impactful card, is usually the most dangerous to work with and has more blank matchups than most spot removal.
Firstly, you need a boatload of mana to answer something you could with a smother (ie bobs n knights) by which time they would have gotten something out of it. It's also usually exposed for a turn and can get Qasali pridemaged or vindicated or maelstrom pulsed (very unlikely). It's only really good if I meet overextending opponents.
4. Maelstrom pulse is the best thing since the invention of ice cream. This card is probably why I don't need 4 jaces too. I hardly have to crash my jace into an opponent's jace cos maelstrom pulse does it too well. A resolved jace on the other side was usually game breaking in the past. In this deck, if you have a factory out, the opps will try to protect it by using fateseal to prevent a another factory coming down to add up to 3 damage. When that happens, a next turn pulse just solves the problem and your opponent does not get any advantage.
It destroys everything without shroud/hexproof so it's good against every non combo deck out there. In the very least, it is a sorcery non-land vindicate. And it also gains tremendous value against mana elves in the face of summoner's pact, or multiple goyfs which is not a rare occurance.
This also happens to be my favorite archetype and I think you did pretty well with it.
Few questions:
1: Do you still like the Vision/Standstill split? I find standstill to be so situational I would almost always rather have 4x Vision
2: Why 3 Jace?!?!?! I don't think you can ever get enough in a deck like this, and when you get him out uninhibited it is usually the doom bell for the opps..
3: How did you feel about 3 Deeds? In a field like this (U/W Blade, Elves, Bant, Aluren) it seems pretty hot. Would you consider a 4th? Or would you rather move down some not seeing the expected Nacatls and Bobs?
4: I personally love the Pulses. Did you get any "good" use out of them aside from blind flipping one on the counterbalance??
I loved these videos, it helped me a great deal and I wanted to say thank you. Also the game with the shaving kittens was hilarious. Is there an area here for getting suggestions on my version of Caw Blade? Some place I can post my deck list and get criticism and suggestions.
Also what should you board in vs mono black discard / surgical extraction?
Added note: just ran across mono blue mill, thanks to the sideboard he just conceded.
Hey, Pete, nice to see you getting into Classic. If you wanted to play LEDStitcher I have a list that I top 8'd a PE with a while back and some other guys placed in a daily with similar builds.
GL.
It doesn't make sense to compare that deck to a matchup like dredge, where there win percent pre-board is ridiculous and they often play a game without casting any spells.
You also aren't guaranteed a win by siding in some Eldrazi. You most likely blank their mill, but they can still just beat you with sworded up guys (I found the list).
This gets to the point about sideboarding I was talking about. Look at all the other cards besides Ulamog in his sideboard. They each have uses in multiple matchups. Weakening your sideboard to enhance your mill matchup might make you much weaker to Vampires, Splinter Twin and RDW (Since he doesn't play Celestial Purge, for instance).
Is it worth crushing a fringe deck you may already have an edge on? Is it worth sideboard slot that could be spent on something brought in against multiple matchups?
There hasn't been a legit mill deck that could exist as part of a meta-game since Jacerator, and I doubt that changes.
He brings two b/c it's basically an unloseable matchup vs mill then which is filling up queues post-Kyle/smitty nats. I mean, I'd like to know how many times the 2 eldrazi mattered, but I can see 2 SB slots for a match win... it's like if you could play 8 leylines vs dredge for the price of 2 cards.
I guess you test against this Smi77y person, so you run into mill decks more often? I can somewhat see wasting a sideboard slot vs mill if it is reasonably popular, but 2 slots is insane. Not only is it bad because they only come in for one matchup, but running multiple Eldrazi isn't even good, you increase the likelihood you draw one and have a virtual mulligan.
I don't want to get into a rant about how people don't build sideboards properly, or sideboard well, but it is probably tied with mulligans as the most underdeveloped player skill.
In this case, you have 2 dedicated sideboard slots for beating mill. Now you could put Eldrazi in your board, or you could play a broader, more powerful card, like Leyline of Sanctity. Now you have a card to bring in vs Vampires, Mono Black, Mill, RDW and if you want, UB control. You now shut off almost every relevant mill card.
Alternatively, you could just play good decks and trust your deck to be good against a rogue strategy like mill, as Darthibanezowner did. Mill decks tend to play very situational cards and are only good against very metagamed fields to begin with, and will often beat themselves.
Congrats on the 4-0. How many times did you need to bring in the Eldrazi?
Id love a way for writers to get private feedback from readers other than them having to email. We have accounts already. Would it be too hard to associate an insite mailbox with writers?
By the way not only is Chris a great storyteller but so is Alex. Read his report on Zvi's makeover for a sample. I agree with Steve OMS, Alex and Chris for HOF Picks.
Thanks for the comments guys.
Craig, to be honest I never needed Kiki because, as you say, Urabrask + Emrakul is always gg ("always" as in without exception). No need to make things complicated. I just get them out and the game is over.
Besides Eldrazi are important because I use Eye of Ugin. If you watched the videos you saw that most of the time my win came through fetching either Emrakul or Kozilek with Eye of Ugin and hardcasting them. This is another reason why I don't need (or in other words: can't run) Kiki because she doesn't work with the Eldrazi.
Thanks again for the comments.
LE
I love UB decks ever since Faeries.
man thats sum good red flowin ur way, my draft pax never seem to look like that, once maybe.it makes me wanna try my luck, i bet that was ur plan all along though...
Why Urabask instead of Kiki Jiki? Sure, it works with Emrakul where Kiki doesn't, but it is even more disruptable with creature kill or bounce than Kiki is. At least with Kiki-Jiki + BSC you get a hasted 11/11 infect even if Kiki-Jiki gets killed immediately.
If they don't have an answer for your red hasty creature, Urabask + Emrakul most likely nets you 15 damage and your opponent is down 6 permanents. That might be gg but it might not, whereas Kiki-Jiki + Deceiver Exarch or Sky Hussar would get you as much damage as you need for the win.
Indeed UB it is this week
This is great. The episodes keep getting better. Agree with a little more enthusiasm.
@ Gardevi- Congrats on your top8. I love the deck. I have been playing it a bunch on MTGO. It doesn't feel like it has too many bad match ups. UB is winnable, as the early disruption game 1 actually can help get counters on Ascension and they have sooo many dead cards, and no one ever knows what you are going to do g2: Am I playing Sphinx or Twin combo? Am I even siding them in? etc... The thing I am most impressed about is the pure draw power of Preordain + Ponder + Fetch Lands. You can dig so deep with this deck, that it has the same kind of "oops, I win" clause as Valakut does.
Good work, both of you.
Least favorite mechanic: Has to be Dredge. I have played Dredge and it doesn't even feel like Magic. You play by a different subset of rules, where your graveyard is your hand and milling your self is good. I like abusing your graveyard (flashback) and discard (madness), but this archetype was a thorn in the side of tournament play for a while.
@Agur- Are you going to feature UB this week on Agur's View? The deck seems like your cup of tea. "This deck is a thing of pure beauty".
If you had a daily show I would watch it. I look forward to these videos and your draft videos.
You did not gush over Pyromancer Ascension _nearly_ enough. :P
Great episode, but was there really only US Nats this week and that's it? I'd like to see you expand into Legacy when you feel comfortable enough to; there's a lot of information on that format and it's still relevant to people's interests, thanks to SCG.
Nice work man!
I love the format that you have come up with to provide quick bits of information about what is going on in competitive magic. You speak in a very clear and controlled manner, which makes it easy to follow you. In the future, I would try and pick up your level of enthusiasm. I feel like I can hear you reading from a script. I am sure as you continue to develop the project that you will find a comfortable groove.
You are a hardcore contributor to the site and I hope you keep it going.
yes i too plan to make the dungrove a star,then others will respect me then i can respect myself and everything will be ok...
As always a great article LE! Some day I will be back to help you test. Perhaps show us some variations on UR? Lots of choices there.
Quality report. Quality lists. Thanks for sharing.
Walkerdog: Thanks for the encouragement. Mtgo can be quite the distraction and I'm trying to cut down on it somewhere. Hopefully the next mocs does not have an enticing promo.
Without tournaments to support the less popular formats, they can be quite expensive to upkeep. =(
Sensei: I would agree that Legacy would be a good choice now. Many viable decks, more interactions and quite skill testing. Sad to see 100c singleton die out as a tournament format. I do still make some neat decks every now and then. =)
1. Standstill is good against the poorer matchups of the deck. Mishra's factory makes a very good complement to it so you can usually drop standstill in the face of a small singular threat without worrying too much. The deck already has a good matchup against it's better matchups so I'm for anything that gives me more edge against my bad matchups and standstill is much more relevant in those especially when I can't wait until turn 4 for my cards.
However, with standstill, you need to plan how to maneuver factories properly and that can be quite skill testing. I think I need a little more work with that against the matchups that like to hold cards.
2. Getting to 4 mana is a problem in itself. I see jace frequent enough to not come to the point that I feel that I need more. He's good and all but you always have to have controlled the board moderately before you pop him down. 2 in hand is always a small problem in itself. I don't ever foresee needing more than 3 in an eternal format. Tezz maybe (for being a direct win con itself in classic) but not jace. If I had a blank space to fill in the deck, I wouldn't consider jace.
3. I'm ok with 3 deeds. Deed although being the most impactful card, is usually the most dangerous to work with and has more blank matchups than most spot removal.
Firstly, you need a boatload of mana to answer something you could with a smother (ie bobs n knights) by which time they would have gotten something out of it. It's also usually exposed for a turn and can get Qasali pridemaged or vindicated or maelstrom pulsed (very unlikely). It's only really good if I meet overextending opponents.
4. Maelstrom pulse is the best thing since the invention of ice cream. This card is probably why I don't need 4 jaces too. I hardly have to crash my jace into an opponent's jace cos maelstrom pulse does it too well. A resolved jace on the other side was usually game breaking in the past. In this deck, if you have a factory out, the opps will try to protect it by using fateseal to prevent a another factory coming down to add up to 3 damage. When that happens, a next turn pulse just solves the problem and your opponent does not get any advantage.
It destroys everything without shroud/hexproof so it's good against every non combo deck out there. In the very least, it is a sorcery non-land vindicate. And it also gains tremendous value against mana elves in the face of summoner's pact, or multiple goyfs which is not a rare occurance.
Hope these answers help. :)
This also happens to be my favorite archetype and I think you did pretty well with it.
Few questions:
1: Do you still like the Vision/Standstill split? I find standstill to be so situational I would almost always rather have 4x Vision
2: Why 3 Jace?!?!?! I don't think you can ever get enough in a deck like this, and when you get him out uninhibited it is usually the doom bell for the opps..
3: How did you feel about 3 Deeds? In a field like this (U/W Blade, Elves, Bant, Aluren) it seems pretty hot. Would you consider a 4th? Or would you rather move down some not seeing the expected Nacatls and Bobs?
4: I personally love the Pulses. Did you get any "good" use out of them aside from blind flipping one on the counterbalance??
Again, Loved the article(s),
Zach/abstrakt66
Looks like the "click here" link didn't stick... the original deck list can be found here: http://www.outsydergaming.com/2011/07/budget-decks-for-standard.html
My apologies!
I am learning a lot by watching these videos. I find them entertaining and informative. I will be a regular watcher.
I had almost repressed thoughts about my beloved 100CS until this article brought me back. Tear.
I started Legacy as well. It was between Legacy, Pauper and Extended. Good choice too b/c the Legacy cards have soared and Extended got killed.
I loved these videos, it helped me a great deal and I wanted to say thank you. Also the game with the shaving kittens was hilarious. Is there an area here for getting suggestions on my version of Caw Blade? Some place I can post my deck list and get criticism and suggestions.
Also what should you board in vs mono black discard / surgical extraction?
Added note: just ran across mono blue mill, thanks to the sideboard he just conceded.
Hey, Pete, nice to see you getting into Classic. If you wanted to play LEDStitcher I have a list that I top 8'd a PE with a while back and some other guys placed in a daily with similar builds.
GL.
http://www.classicquarter.com/decks/deckcompare.asp?DecklistIDs=4173,430...
It doesn't make sense to compare that deck to a matchup like dredge, where there win percent pre-board is ridiculous and they often play a game without casting any spells.
You also aren't guaranteed a win by siding in some Eldrazi. You most likely blank their mill, but they can still just beat you with sworded up guys (I found the list).
This gets to the point about sideboarding I was talking about. Look at all the other cards besides Ulamog in his sideboard. They each have uses in multiple matchups. Weakening your sideboard to enhance your mill matchup might make you much weaker to Vampires, Splinter Twin and RDW (Since he doesn't play Celestial Purge, for instance).
Is it worth crushing a fringe deck you may already have an edge on? Is it worth sideboard slot that could be spent on something brought in against multiple matchups?
There hasn't been a legit mill deck that could exist as part of a meta-game since Jacerator, and I doubt that changes.
He brings two b/c it's basically an unloseable matchup vs mill then which is filling up queues post-Kyle/smitty nats. I mean, I'd like to know how many times the 2 eldrazi mattered, but I can see 2 SB slots for a match win... it's like if you could play 8 leylines vs dredge for the price of 2 cards.
I guess you test against this Smi77y person, so you run into mill decks more often? I can somewhat see wasting a sideboard slot vs mill if it is reasonably popular, but 2 slots is insane. Not only is it bad because they only come in for one matchup, but running multiple Eldrazi isn't even good, you increase the likelihood you draw one and have a virtual mulligan.
I don't want to get into a rant about how people don't build sideboards properly, or sideboard well, but it is probably tied with mulligans as the most underdeveloped player skill.
In this case, you have 2 dedicated sideboard slots for beating mill. Now you could put Eldrazi in your board, or you could play a broader, more powerful card, like Leyline of Sanctity. Now you have a card to bring in vs Vampires, Mono Black, Mill, RDW and if you want, UB control. You now shut off almost every relevant mill card.
Alternatively, you could just play good decks and trust your deck to be good against a rogue strategy like mill, as Darthibanezowner did. Mill decks tend to play very situational cards and are only good against very metagamed fields to begin with, and will often beat themselves.
Congrats on the 4-0. How many times did you need to bring in the Eldrazi?
Funny :D
Id love a way for writers to get private feedback from readers other than them having to email. We have accounts already. Would it be too hard to associate an insite mailbox with writers?
By the way not only is Chris a great storyteller but so is Alex. Read his report on Zvi's makeover for a sample. I agree with Steve OMS, Alex and Chris for HOF Picks.