How is Bazaar considered a "crier"? I would be much more inclined to believe slow-roller (:P ), but baseless accusations make you look like a tool. You should consider actually debating with a guy who is willing to do so, rather than just throw caution to the wind and resorting to childish behavior like saying he is a "crier". Seriously, I know this article is dead and in the archives, but did you feel the need to come back and defend your honor that hard?
A quote like "So, I am glad that you've passed 101, but I'm not sure you're asking all the relevant questions to pass the higher level courses yet." is not LITERAL, it is also not an attack on your being. You REALLY went back and looked for question marks? Seriously, I am interested.
I played a legacy match yesterday with someone trying it in a UR build. I wondered how fiend would fair in that type of deck and my original assumption was spot on....It sucked. Granted I was playing Merfolk, but still the fiend was easily blockable by any of my creatures.
On the other hand, I did try it in a similiar build to deluxicoffs and it can be pretty powerful in pauper. Now that everyone knows about it, I hardly doubt it stays on the board for very long. The 1/2 build is really the biggest problem, if it was a 1/3 and only got +2 instead of +3 it might fair better. Then again, the +2 might not make it playable.
But that deck of x/1's and x/2's shouldn't be running Kiln Fiend anyways. Kiln Fiend only shines when amongst heavy burn, and since the typical RDW nowadays is creature centric with a bit of burn for problem solving, racing, and finishing, Kiln Fiend is a wasted two-drop in said deck.
You've nicely elaborated what I'm coming to realize more and more about RoE draft: "good stuff" decks are weaker than decks with a focused plan. I also like your breakdown of card types, though there should probably be an outside category for "complete and utter dregs" - I think I'd sooner play a 19th land than maindeck Living Destiny or Dormant Gomazoa, for example.
I'm also finding that it's good to have a diversity of threats. I've played decks in which my only win condition was to hope to draw, resolve, and swing with my rare bomb, and generally didn't have a good time (fun wise or win wise). The best decks are ones in which I can get to 8ish mana and know that my opponent is going to have a hard time dealing with whatever I draw, whether it be an Ulamog's Crusher, a rare bomb like Gigantomancer, or (as was the case in a recent draft I did) either beatdown with Lavafume or lockdown with Dawnglare Invoker.
Also, when hate drafting at the end of a pack, I like to take a worse "cornerstone" card over a marginally better "filler" card. You never know...
not sure the it dies to removal really holds up in an argument against a deck of x/1's and x/2's. Just think for every removal spell spent on a kiln fiend thats one less answer they have to the hell's thunder when they are sitting at 4 life...
I wish I had print run information but sadly I do not. Dunowe -- I'm working on the first archetype article now, which will include the full list of archetypes that I'll be discussing over the course of the next several articles -- so far I've got 19 archetypes listed, and I'm open to adding more as I go.
Kiln fiend to me is just too weak. It dies to a lot of removal, especially burn, and it already has a target on it's head from everyone saying how great it is. I'm not sold on it yet and I will just have to wait and see how it evolves.
Staggershock to me is slow and mana intensive. Yea it nets you 4 damage over two turns, but I am not casting it till turn 3 ussually and in those turns I am wanting to cast 2 spells. A removal spell and a creature, or maybe two removal spells. With the presence of earlier bigger creatures like Wooly Thoctar, Wall of Omens and Vegivine, I am trying to conserve mana and use bigger immediate burns spells for less. I will probably go with Flame Slash until proven otherwise.
I made sure to look over my last reply before commenting. For the life of me I can't find a single question mark. Don't get your feelings hurt and come here trying to attack me. You already have a reputation as a crier on MODO. Try not to have the same face show here.
I have actually tested with the KOR. Turns out it makes the curve a bent and there are only 8 lands in the deck currently that he can target. But I also agree that it is a bomb card. Tarmo recently came back into the list only to fail epically against the various landstill lists. Canopy is solid but I cut the 23 land out all together early on.
Yea, I am not sold on Kiln Fiend yet. I have played against him both online and paper, and everytime I see one, I send (Enter your favorite removal speel here)it's way. A beating if it gets to attack, but most of the time dead in the water.
In this regard, I agree. Some people will keep openers with one main creature or card, but if you strip it during the first turn of the game, it can seriously hinder their plan. If people ever get that horribly affected by this card, they can counteract it without even changing their deck by changing their mull strategy somewhat.
However, Inquisition is still only just as good as Duress (or worse, as you said). And considering the somewhat low amount of Duress in decks nowadays, Inquisition won't be seen very often either.
Well, great article indeed! It is a real pleasure for me to read it as I have very similar experience (in addition to Manowar and teaching): my wife and I agreed on "me money". This happened after some expenses from my side, and it was she (!) who offered me to agree on this. She is no nerd at all, and thus for me it is very strong positive lesson about how important paying attention to Significant Other may be. :)
It is harder for us with "me time" as she does not have definite hobby, but usually it is always possible to find a solution. The great advantage of MTGO is that this game is very flexible timewise. I played WoW a lot, but finally it became impossible for me to combine even softcore raiding with family. This is not a problem of MTGO as it is turn based, and you can agree on your playing time with your Significant Other beforehand, just by looking event calendar together.
You couldn't be more wrong. If you are playing vampires, the main cards that crush you from jund are thrinax and putrid leech. You think jund wouldn't want to hit a wall of omens or spreading seas from U/W? You think taking a knight of the reliquary is nothing? Esper control wouldn't want to hit a hexmage or o ring? Jund on the play doesn't want to take a goblin Guide? I think duress is probably better, but inquisition certainly has it's good matchups (like Jund)
Nice one. I'd only have issue with the geopedes main. Perhaps burn off two more lands for another 1CC damage spell? Kiln is quite a puzzle, in a deck with instants/sorcery - he's awesome, but in a deck with too many creatures, he'll often be average. I don't know/play Standard all that much, but if there other good and quick spells, I'd go that route
i maindeck bojuka bogs in any heavy black deck now, takes care of so many random shenanigans.
Inquisition isnt a bad card, but its pretty pathetic in standard right now. I think in extended its much stronger though. Hits everything vs zoo/goblins and hits tarmogoyf and jittes etc etc etc. But in std it hits nothing that matters.
Agreed. The fact that it doesn't hit any relevant planeswalkers, bloodbraid Elf or Polymorph is what's holding it back.
They're the key components in each of their respective decks, and i don't think you'd particulalry want a discard spell against nl-bant. It might be good against naya and/or mono-r, but that's four sideboard slots, when doom-blade would probably be equally as good against them, and randomly useful elsewhere.
Against mythic, I don't think duress or inq are good enough. Ostracise almost certainly would be though!
I do think that it's a good card though, and at some meta at some point, it will be good enough (alas, jace is in the same block!).
true i would probably run hellspark over it...though smashing it futilely against a wall of omens seems equally wasteful
How is Bazaar considered a "crier"? I would be much more inclined to believe slow-roller (:P ), but baseless accusations make you look like a tool. You should consider actually debating with a guy who is willing to do so, rather than just throw caution to the wind and resorting to childish behavior like saying he is a "crier". Seriously, I know this article is dead and in the archives, but did you feel the need to come back and defend your honor that hard?
A quote like "So, I am glad that you've passed 101, but I'm not sure you're asking all the relevant questions to pass the higher level courses yet." is not LITERAL, it is also not an attack on your being. You REALLY went back and looked for question marks? Seriously, I am interested.
Good day, sir.
I played a legacy match yesterday with someone trying it in a UR build. I wondered how fiend would fair in that type of deck and my original assumption was spot on....It sucked. Granted I was playing Merfolk, but still the fiend was easily blockable by any of my creatures.
On the other hand, I did try it in a similiar build to deluxicoffs and it can be pretty powerful in pauper. Now that everyone knows about it, I hardly doubt it stays on the board for very long. The 1/2 build is really the biggest problem, if it was a 1/3 and only got +2 instead of +3 it might fair better. Then again, the +2 might not make it playable.
But that deck of x/1's and x/2's shouldn't be running Kiln Fiend anyways. Kiln Fiend only shines when amongst heavy burn, and since the typical RDW nowadays is creature centric with a bit of burn for problem solving, racing, and finishing, Kiln Fiend is a wasted two-drop in said deck.
I feel the same. I never really got to blow anyone out of the water with it, so maybe its place is truly in Pauper as deluxicoff says.
You've nicely elaborated what I'm coming to realize more and more about RoE draft: "good stuff" decks are weaker than decks with a focused plan. I also like your breakdown of card types, though there should probably be an outside category for "complete and utter dregs" - I think I'd sooner play a 19th land than maindeck Living Destiny or Dormant Gomazoa, for example.
I'm also finding that it's good to have a diversity of threats. I've played decks in which my only win condition was to hope to draw, resolve, and swing with my rare bomb, and generally didn't have a good time (fun wise or win wise). The best decks are ones in which I can get to 8ish mana and know that my opponent is going to have a hard time dealing with whatever I draw, whether it be an Ulamog's Crusher, a rare bomb like Gigantomancer, or (as was the case in a recent draft I did) either beatdown with Lavafume or lockdown with Dawnglare Invoker.
Also, when hate drafting at the end of a pack, I like to take a worse "cornerstone" card over a marginally better "filler" card. You never know...
not sure the it dies to removal really holds up in an argument against a deck of x/1's and x/2's. Just think for every removal spell spent on a kiln fiend thats one less answer they have to the hell's thunder when they are sitting at 4 life...
im not going to say its a proven fact, but i don't think the online packs you open follow the paper print run at all..
I wish I had print run information but sadly I do not. Dunowe -- I'm working on the first archetype article now, which will include the full list of archetypes that I'll be discussing over the course of the next several articles -- so far I've got 19 archetypes listed, and I'm open to adding more as I go.
Just to add more fuel to the burning fire, his list did just go 4-0 in a daily event.
In the older formats this card gains strength. For standard it is weaker.
Kiln fiend to me is just too weak. It dies to a lot of removal, especially burn, and it already has a target on it's head from everyone saying how great it is. I'm not sold on it yet and I will just have to wait and see how it evolves.
Staggershock to me is slow and mana intensive. Yea it nets you 4 damage over two turns, but I am not casting it till turn 3 ussually and in those turns I am wanting to cast 2 spells. A removal spell and a creature, or maybe two removal spells. With the presence of earlier bigger creatures like Wooly Thoctar, Wall of Omens and Vegivine, I am trying to conserve mana and use bigger immediate burns spells for less. I will probably go with Flame Slash until proven otherwise.
Nice article though.
I made sure to look over my last reply before commenting. For the life of me I can't find a single question mark. Don't get your feelings hurt and come here trying to attack me. You already have a reputation as a crier on MODO. Try not to have the same face show here.
I have actually tested with the KOR. Turns out it makes the curve a bent and there are only 8 lands in the deck currently that he can target. But I also agree that it is a bomb card. Tarmo recently came back into the list only to fail epically against the various landstill lists. Canopy is solid but I cut the 23 land out all together early on.
I'am awaiting your articles about the archetypes, if possible i like to know in advance the archetypes you 'll be discussing
Yea, I am not sold on Kiln Fiend yet. I have played against him both online and paper, and everytime I see one, I send (Enter your favorite removal speel here)it's way. A beating if it gets to attack, but most of the time dead in the water.
In this regard, I agree. Some people will keep openers with one main creature or card, but if you strip it during the first turn of the game, it can seriously hinder their plan. If people ever get that horribly affected by this card, they can counteract it without even changing their deck by changing their mull strategy somewhat.
However, Inquisition is still only just as good as Duress (or worse, as you said). And considering the somewhat low amount of Duress in decks nowadays, Inquisition won't be seen very often either.
Well, great article indeed! It is a real pleasure for me to read it as I have very similar experience (in addition to Manowar and teaching): my wife and I agreed on "me money". This happened after some expenses from my side, and it was she (!) who offered me to agree on this. She is no nerd at all, and thus for me it is very strong positive lesson about how important paying attention to Significant Other may be. :)
It is harder for us with "me time" as she does not have definite hobby, but usually it is always possible to find a solution. The great advantage of MTGO is that this game is very flexible timewise. I played WoW a lot, but finally it became impossible for me to combine even softcore raiding with family. This is not a problem of MTGO as it is turn based, and you can agree on your playing time with your Significant Other beforehand, just by looking event calendar together.
You couldn't be more wrong. If you are playing vampires, the main cards that crush you from jund are thrinax and putrid leech. You think jund wouldn't want to hit a wall of omens or spreading seas from U/W? You think taking a knight of the reliquary is nothing? Esper control wouldn't want to hit a hexmage or o ring? Jund on the play doesn't want to take a goblin Guide? I think duress is probably better, but inquisition certainly has it's good matchups (like Jund)
Nice one. I'd only have issue with the geopedes main. Perhaps burn off two more lands for another 1CC damage spell? Kiln is quite a puzzle, in a deck with instants/sorcery - he's awesome, but in a deck with too many creatures, he'll often be average. I don't know/play Standard all that much, but if there other good and quick spells, I'd go that route
Hi Neverloze you missed the May article which can be found here
http://puremtgo.com/articles/rare-drafter-may-2010
Someone usually overanalyzes things. There really isn't a point which is why I ended with "back to reality nerds"
We all have a little nerd in us or we wouldn't be playing this game. I am totally cool with that label. :)
i maindeck bojuka bogs in any heavy black deck now, takes care of so many random shenanigans.
Inquisition isnt a bad card, but its pretty pathetic in standard right now. I think in extended its much stronger though. Hits everything vs zoo/goblins and hits tarmogoyf and jittes etc etc etc. But in std it hits nothing that matters.
Another good solid article... Thanks.
By the way does anyone know of the existence of Rise print run information anywhere on the web?
Cheers
Agreed. The fact that it doesn't hit any relevant planeswalkers, bloodbraid Elf or Polymorph is what's holding it back.
They're the key components in each of their respective decks, and i don't think you'd particulalry want a discard spell against nl-bant. It might be good against naya and/or mono-r, but that's four sideboard slots, when doom-blade would probably be equally as good against them, and randomly useful elsewhere.
Against mythic, I don't think duress or inq are good enough. Ostracise almost certainly would be though!
I do think that it's a good card though, and at some meta at some point, it will be good enough (alas, jace is in the same block!).