War elemental deck looks like fun. The elemental and goblin war drums are cards that I sometimes look at and think: There has to be a deck for these guys. Glad to see you found creative uses for them.
So Pridemage works like I thought. Thanks for clearing that up. If we start seeing Royal Assassin in Legacy I would laugh for at least a few hours before gathering my thoughts on the magnitude of the new Tech lol.
interesting deck i must admit, and something i could see trying. Heres what i want to know though. How often can you reliably get to 5 mana on turn 2 or 3? The deck looks really nifty, but then again decks like this end up sucking pretty bad when in tournament play. Look at the blue grren showand tell/eureka deck. That has 7 ways to get a fatty into play plus 4 tutors + 8 card draw and its still wildy inconsistent.
If your trying to claim this is a tournament deck i would like to see some tournament results. Not bashing you, or your firends, but playing in the tp room and playing in a daily event, you get vastly different matchups. For instance, i usally play my teir 2 or fun decks in tp room, and leave my tuned tourny decks for the events.
Would like to see more please, much more as this is at best half an article.
You are becoming one of my favorite writers on the site and about MTG in general. Thanks for another enjoyable and humourous read. Hope you are able to keep writing for a long time to come.
Ps.... Appreciate your take on a deck that "does not require any copies of Jace, The Wallet F***er" (LOL)
"Also Emrakul can't be targeted by colored spells, so ring isn't good there."
Just FYI, although Emrakul can't be targeted by colored spells, it can be targeted by effects. This means that Oblivion Ring, Royal Assassin, Ethersworn Adjudicator, even Scepter of Dominance, can all take out or deal with Emrakul. Not that you will see most of these cards in Legacy, but wanted to make sure you guys knew the rulings.
Oblivion Ring is is not an instant. So it does just about nothing against the deck. So most Enchantress decks are a cake walk as I described, yes. ;)
Zoo can't deal with an Emrakul. Once they sacrifice 6 permanents the game is pretty much over. Yes, the other Eldrazi and Hellcarver are dealt with via Path to Exile or Swords of Plowshares, but they usually tap out a lot, which leaves you with a lot of open opportunities to toss a big guy at them. Game one is usually easy because they're not sure exactly what your trying to accomplish. Games 2 and 3 are a little more difficult, but do able.
Runed Halo only prevents the damage. The triggered ability still goes on the stack and they still have to sac permanents.
Eldrazi are not Artifacts, they are just colorless creatures. So Pridemage will be Annihilator fodder.
I've really been giving that some consideration. Brainstorms and the slowly dropping Force of Will could really add to the concept. Competitive? Maybe, maybe not. Fun? Sure looks that way! And thanks for the comment(s)!
Even though you were clocked by the evil wizards, this article is definitely 5x Fireballs. Your enthusiasm alone made it worth the read. I love toolbox decks myself, though being a casual player I tend to not bring counters to the table for the most part. Sad to say they get too many people upset for me to enjoy them fully. That said Teachings is indeed a powerful and versitile archetype if you are a skilled and mindful player. Inattentive players should NOT play this. Seriously. I am certain this can be translated quite well into Legacy if you desire to play that format.
Breaches gives it haste, so ring is no good there. Also Emrakul can't be targeted by colored spells, so ring isn't good there. Elephant Grass, Runed Halo and Solitary Confinement would be better cards. Although, I'm 98.7% sure Runed Halo still doesn't stop the trigger effect, just prevents the damage. Anyone know if that is correct?
I think Pridemage can kill Emrakul though, maybe someone else can comment on that as well.
Just like any reanimator type decks, you need to select the best possible target, the demon would be terrible vs. Zoo as it runs Path to Exile Main.
I haven't the foggiest about Legacy in general but doesn't Enchantress run Oblivion Ring main? Doesn't that just erase the Eldrazi you so painfully brought into play? Just sayin' it doesn't seem like a cake walk as you described. Also if I were playing Zoo I'd be running SOME form of exile removal. Seems like common sense since there is so much that can stop a Zoo deck if a big creature resolves. Again No idea about Legacy at all just curious what you think of these things.
Thanks for trying out burning kiln, still think I need to have lavadarts maindecked for that one!
Regarding "reload" - unless storm/goblins is across from ya, pauper can be a surprising slow grind...and I've found burning people out not an issue with this build. YOu can literally feel the turn you'd normally putter out with traditional burn, and then boom, a deep analysis/mulldrifter later and your back in action. Particularly nasty is using foresee to hunt for those game breaking 8+ free damage via fireblasts late game. Being able to refill your hand IS the overall power advantage imo.
Aggro match-ups are great. :) So I hope so! Can't wait to see how the Meta turns out. Either way it will be great and I will still be playing this deck.
How can you pass up casting Emrakuls, Ulamogs, and Kozileks OH MY!
It's also nice to know that Hellcarver Demon actually has a deck it's insane in.
With the decimation of ANT and Reanimator,(supposedly) your deck should have much more merit imo.
Actually if those decks become obsolete, you may not even need to go the discard route. Your worst matchup would probably be something counter related like Thresh/Bant/New Horizons.
I see the meta going in the direction of lots of aggro. I'd think this would make you smile quite a bit!
I've done about 100 or so games testing with Friends who have well built decks (I.E. Goblins, ANT, Fish, Reanimator, and a few others). The rest has been in the Tournament Practice room. I have not taken it to a Daily yet since I've been trying to rework it. Also, it wasn't in a great position before because most decks were either faster or they just have countermagic.
Now that ANT has slown down quite a bit, it is finally up to par with the speed.
I've only seen Krosan Grip hurt a few times, but at that point you have Through the Breech to help out.
It's funny you bring up a discard package. That is the direction I recently moved towards. Initially, that was going to be apart of another article (probably the next one I submit). So I will just touch up on it in the next one. :)
On another note...not sure exactly how to contact the person who puts up the articles, but I had named it "Sudo Infinity" on purpose(my username is SudekiCd and it's been a nickname). If it could be changed back to that, it would be great! Thanks! :)
I got to give you props. Your article inspired me to build a standard deck for the first time in years. I took your exact build to the 2mans last night and ended up going 6-2. Thanks for inspiring me to play something other than Legacy for a change.
This series is by far and away the best discussion that I have found on drafting ROE - 'way better than anything on magicthegathering.com or starcity. Keep up the good work!
A well done first article! Glad to see other Legacy content on here. I am curious as to where your testing comes from. Is it from Tourney Practice room? 2mans? While I love the deck concept I wonder how viable it is in a tournament. I could be wrong, but I don't remember it placing in any recent Daily Events.
You mentioned a tough matchup in bant/thresh type decks. Most of these decks run Krosan Grip sideboard. Has this been a problem in testing?
Any thoughts of slowing it down, maybe going with a discard package? Any other cards you considered or any base shell you considered?
Haha! Epic :) Getting a huge creature in like that to smash your opponent and probably annihilate all of his lands :) Reminded my of Hypergenesis.
Great article.
Interesting article. I built your Burning Kiln deck a couple of weeks ago, and found it to be pretty much as you stated - can be nuts, but if the Fiend gets removed it can sputter in the mid game. I'm intrigued by the new build. Lots of refuelling, but does it miss out on overall power?
I really think your deck spotlight and the interaction of that deck with current metagame is the best aspect of this article (nothing against the rest of the article, you are just strong at this discussion). If anything, I would love to see the sideboarding pulled out of the weaknesses and addressed in more depth. Also, if there are deck construction decisions that weight the deck's performance against particular matchups, even a brief discussion would go a long way. For instance, in the storm discussion, the addition of Reclaim is rather unusual to me, but I have seen multiple variations that run 1 Goblin Bushwacker in the main deck.
How do you get the numbers for the decks in the tournament? It is easy to get the top 8, but I have no idea how to get the full field.
And a request - could you go back to the Event Analysis article title so avoid too much confusion with my Recaps.
Well I'm glad my article provoked such a weather related discussion!
@Lythand - Wall of Omens is a good card, but I'm not sure it adds enough to the combo to warrant inclusion over anything else. Having said that, I haven't tried it.
Finally, on behalf of everyone in England, I'm very sorry about BP's failure. I wish the oil would hurry up and run out so this sort of thing doesn't happen any more. But then we'll probably get nuclear disasters instead.
Hattiesburg, MS is just 80 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, about an hour drive. We get a lot of the weather from the Gulf as well as the Central US. So it rains almost DAILY around here. Humidity is RIDICULOUS. :P
And I don't even want to get started on the crap going on down in the Gulf right now. BP just needs to hurry up and fix it. :(
War elemental deck looks like fun. The elemental and goblin war drums are cards that I sometimes look at and think: There has to be a deck for these guys. Glad to see you found creative uses for them.
So Pridemage works like I thought. Thanks for clearing that up. If we start seeing Royal Assassin in Legacy I would laugh for at least a few hours before gathering my thoughts on the magnitude of the new Tech lol.
interesting deck i must admit, and something i could see trying. Heres what i want to know though. How often can you reliably get to 5 mana on turn 2 or 3? The deck looks really nifty, but then again decks like this end up sucking pretty bad when in tournament play. Look at the blue grren showand tell/eureka deck. That has 7 ways to get a fatty into play plus 4 tutors + 8 card draw and its still wildy inconsistent.
If your trying to claim this is a tournament deck i would like to see some tournament results. Not bashing you, or your firends, but playing in the tp room and playing in a daily event, you get vastly different matchups. For instance, i usally play my teir 2 or fun decks in tp room, and leave my tuned tourny decks for the events.
Would like to see more please, much more as this is at best half an article.
You are becoming one of my favorite writers on the site and about MTG in general. Thanks for another enjoyable and humourous read. Hope you are able to keep writing for a long time to come.
Ps.... Appreciate your take on a deck that "does not require any copies of Jace, The Wallet F***er" (LOL)
"Also Emrakul can't be targeted by colored spells, so ring isn't good there."
Just FYI, although Emrakul can't be targeted by colored spells, it can be targeted by effects. This means that Oblivion Ring, Royal Assassin, Ethersworn Adjudicator, even Scepter of Dominance, can all take out or deal with Emrakul. Not that you will see most of these cards in Legacy, but wanted to make sure you guys knew the rulings.
Seeing a UR decklist gets me all excited like I'm getting ready to play UR Dragonstorm again. Great article as usual.
Care to breakdown any other blue or red cards you considered for inclusion?
Oblivion Ring is is not an instant. So it does just about nothing against the deck. So most Enchantress decks are a cake walk as I described, yes. ;)
Zoo can't deal with an Emrakul. Once they sacrifice 6 permanents the game is pretty much over. Yes, the other Eldrazi and Hellcarver are dealt with via Path to Exile or Swords of Plowshares, but they usually tap out a lot, which leaves you with a lot of open opportunities to toss a big guy at them. Game one is usually easy because they're not sure exactly what your trying to accomplish. Games 2 and 3 are a little more difficult, but do able.
Runed Halo only prevents the damage. The triggered ability still goes on the stack and they still have to sac permanents.
Eldrazi are not Artifacts, they are just colorless creatures. So Pridemage will be Annihilator fodder.
I've really been giving that some consideration. Brainstorms and the slowly dropping Force of Will could really add to the concept. Competitive? Maybe, maybe not. Fun? Sure looks that way! And thanks for the comment(s)!
Even though you were clocked by the evil wizards, this article is definitely 5x Fireballs. Your enthusiasm alone made it worth the read. I love toolbox decks myself, though being a casual player I tend to not bring counters to the table for the most part. Sad to say they get too many people upset for me to enjoy them fully. That said Teachings is indeed a powerful and versitile archetype if you are a skilled and mindful player. Inattentive players should NOT play this. Seriously. I am certain this can be translated quite well into Legacy if you desire to play that format.
Breaches gives it haste, so ring is no good there. Also Emrakul can't be targeted by colored spells, so ring isn't good there. Elephant Grass, Runed Halo and Solitary Confinement would be better cards. Although, I'm 98.7% sure Runed Halo still doesn't stop the trigger effect, just prevents the damage. Anyone know if that is correct?
I think Pridemage can kill Emrakul though, maybe someone else can comment on that as well.
Just like any reanimator type decks, you need to select the best possible target, the demon would be terrible vs. Zoo as it runs Path to Exile Main.
I haven't the foggiest about Legacy in general but doesn't Enchantress run Oblivion Ring main? Doesn't that just erase the Eldrazi you so painfully brought into play? Just sayin' it doesn't seem like a cake walk as you described. Also if I were playing Zoo I'd be running SOME form of exile removal. Seems like common sense since there is so much that can stop a Zoo deck if a big creature resolves. Again No idea about Legacy at all just curious what you think of these things.
Thanks for trying out burning kiln, still think I need to have lavadarts maindecked for that one!
Regarding "reload" - unless storm/goblins is across from ya, pauper can be a surprising slow grind...and I've found burning people out not an issue with this build. YOu can literally feel the turn you'd normally putter out with traditional burn, and then boom, a deep analysis/mulldrifter later and your back in action. Particularly nasty is using foresee to hunt for those game breaking 8+ free damage via fireblasts late game. Being able to refill your hand IS the overall power advantage imo.
Aggro match-ups are great. :) So I hope so! Can't wait to see how the Meta turns out. Either way it will be great and I will still be playing this deck.
How can you pass up casting Emrakuls, Ulamogs, and Kozileks OH MY!
It's also nice to know that Hellcarver Demon actually has a deck it's insane in.
With the decimation of ANT and Reanimator,(supposedly) your deck should have much more merit imo.
Actually if those decks become obsolete, you may not even need to go the discard route. Your worst matchup would probably be something counter related like Thresh/Bant/New Horizons.
I see the meta going in the direction of lots of aggro. I'd think this would make you smile quite a bit!
Thanks for the great feedback! :)
I've done about 100 or so games testing with Friends who have well built decks (I.E. Goblins, ANT, Fish, Reanimator, and a few others). The rest has been in the Tournament Practice room. I have not taken it to a Daily yet since I've been trying to rework it. Also, it wasn't in a great position before because most decks were either faster or they just have countermagic.
Now that ANT has slown down quite a bit, it is finally up to par with the speed.
I've only seen Krosan Grip hurt a few times, but at that point you have Through the Breech to help out.
It's funny you bring up a discard package. That is the direction I recently moved towards. Initially, that was going to be apart of another article (probably the next one I submit). So I will just touch up on it in the next one. :)
On another note...not sure exactly how to contact the person who puts up the articles, but I had named it "Sudo Infinity" on purpose(my username is SudekiCd and it's been a nickname). If it could be changed back to that, it would be great! Thanks! :)
I got to give you props. Your article inspired me to build a standard deck for the first time in years. I took your exact build to the 2mans last night and ended up going 6-2. Thanks for inspiring me to play something other than Legacy for a change.
This series is by far and away the best discussion that I have found on drafting ROE - 'way better than anything on magicthegathering.com or starcity. Keep up the good work!
When in doubt, spree them out........LOL, nice!
A well done first article! Glad to see other Legacy content on here. I am curious as to where your testing comes from. Is it from Tourney Practice room? 2mans? While I love the deck concept I wonder how viable it is in a tournament. I could be wrong, but I don't remember it placing in any recent Daily Events.
You mentioned a tough matchup in bant/thresh type decks. Most of these decks run Krosan Grip sideboard. Has this been a problem in testing?
Any thoughts of slowing it down, maybe going with a discard package? Any other cards you considered or any base shell you considered?
Haha! Epic :) Getting a huge creature in like that to smash your opponent and probably annihilate all of his lands :) Reminded my of Hypergenesis.
Great article.
Interesting article. I built your Burning Kiln deck a couple of weeks ago, and found it to be pretty much as you stated - can be nuts, but if the Fiend gets removed it can sputter in the mid game. I'm intrigued by the new build. Lots of refuelling, but does it miss out on overall power?
I really think your deck spotlight and the interaction of that deck with current metagame is the best aspect of this article (nothing against the rest of the article, you are just strong at this discussion). If anything, I would love to see the sideboarding pulled out of the weaknesses and addressed in more depth. Also, if there are deck construction decisions that weight the deck's performance against particular matchups, even a brief discussion would go a long way. For instance, in the storm discussion, the addition of Reclaim is rather unusual to me, but I have seen multiple variations that run 1 Goblin Bushwacker in the main deck.
How do you get the numbers for the decks in the tournament? It is easy to get the top 8, but I have no idea how to get the full field.
And a request - could you go back to the Event Analysis article title so avoid too much confusion with my Recaps.
Well I'm glad my article provoked such a weather related discussion!
@Lythand - Wall of Omens is a good card, but I'm not sure it adds enough to the combo to warrant inclusion over anything else. Having said that, I haven't tried it.
Finally, on behalf of everyone in England, I'm very sorry about BP's failure. I wish the oil would hurry up and run out so this sort of thing doesn't happen any more. But then we'll probably get nuclear disasters instead.
Not to get all political here, but you can count on them not fixing it until it suits them, ecology be damned.
East Coast, yes. Gulf Coast, no.
Hattiesburg, MS is just 80 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, about an hour drive. We get a lot of the weather from the Gulf as well as the Central US. So it rains almost DAILY around here. Humidity is RIDICULOUS. :P
And I don't even want to get started on the crap going on down in the Gulf right now. BP just needs to hurry up and fix it. :(