For the benefit of anyone who like me has no context for what a top 64 means, you really need to spell it out. A quick trip to the mothership tells me there were around 1300 players, putting you into the 1 in 20 who made top 64, with a minimum prize of $200. That sounds pretty good to me once I know what you did.
Very true, it's an even better combo than recasting Sarkhan Vol and using his first ability. Sadly I don't have any Mad versions of Sarkhan yet so wasn't able to test it, but thanks for pointing out the synergy.
I just wanted to say that I read this whole article even though I don't own any of those plains walkers and don't plan on playing control. The reason I read it was because the author was awesome and made a lot of references that I can relate to. Good Kudos.
Looking at the course of the debate, here seems the best place to make my point. To quote you, 'My previous comments in past issues of tribal apoc were directed at early turn combo decks that give little to no recourse period for opposing decks'.
This most recent Tribal Apocalypse, I played a shoehorned early turn deck that could, and did during the course of the event, go off on turn 3, giving my opponents little to no recourse to prevent me winning.
On the basis of that statement, given your previous stance as quoted above, should that turn 3 win deck be treated the same as the other 'early turn combo decks' against which you successfully got the banned list adjusted?
I ask that you give your answer before looking at the decklist at the following link, for the sake of principle.
Not too surprising, given the 4 of a card limit, but running 4-ofs is something I have a tendency towards. In the case of the lands, I was going for a balance of black/white duals that don't come into play tapped, taking into account the need to run enough swamps to enable Tainted Field (In this case 16, between the basics, fetches and shrines). If I owned Scrubland, I'd have subbed out 4 swamps for it, leading to a perfect all-fours deck.
I just bought 4 of the phylataries tonight and im planning on trying some variations of this build. I do like the first build, but my only suggestion would be maybe to sub out the everflowing chalices for something more useful mid to end game.
This isnt really a deck that lends itself to an advantage in having lots of mana available, so maybe some demon horns that can be thrown in turn 2 for a turn 3 phylactary would help. Plus pulling a demon horn late game can still give you a bit of life, where as pulling a 3rd everflow mid game is pretty useless. The demon horn can be effective in conjunction with a tutelage also perhaps, not to mention GG if you run into any vamp decks.
I killed the tokens so he couldn't rush out a regenerating legend that could survive some of my board wipes.
Good deck. As much as I hate to suggest my most hated card in commander, you should add (Roil Elemental) to that deck.
I was, obviously, the Teneb player. My deck is a fairly explosive deck. It just keeps blowing things up until people run out of gas, then kick their heads in with reanimated dudes.
For the record, the most times I have cast Teneb is 7.
I just noticed something about AJ_Impy's The Final Countdown deck its all four's apart from the swamp's which are 4+4=8. I've never seen a deck as perfect number wise before.
I think it's one thing to recognize something for what it is, and quite another to pass judgment. I have no problems facing the easy button decks except maybe in cas cas when I am testing some jank that I don't need to see top tiered decks in. Otherwise bring it. But recognize it for what it is.
Shard I never said it was the rebirth of those tourneys (infact CK wasn't even around when i started playing MTGO and was playing in thoes PRE's), I just pointed out that all players have a starting point and there's no reason that Tribal can't be or hasn't been a starting point in a tournament players career.
As for the "easy button" debate its more or less the same debate of playing "net decks". And all too often even if decks are different then the "net deck" people will still accuse them of playing one. (my personal fav was the player that recently got flamed for playing "zoo" in tribal (It was a cats deck).
I mean really? Who woulda thunk playing a efficient creature base deck in a creature based format. We should ban their deck for playing that right? /rolls eyes.
Don't expect someone to water down their decks, or change playing archtypes or cards that they enjoy that happen to follow the rules, just to appease the crowds.
"Elemental burn, goblin sligh,kithkin rush,elf aggro, merfolk control,rat control ect...these are more or less the foundations of each color on the pie and as such a player shouldnt be hated on just for choosing to play a deck optimally."
Easy button. That is all I have to say about it. (Thanks Staples)
Actually my previous comments in past issues of tribal apoc were directed at early turn combo decks that give little to no recourse period for opposing decks. Never will u see me advocate bans simply because of social pressures.
Once again Some tribes just do certain things better then others and I'll never fault someone to playing to a particular tribes strengths.
Elemental burn, goblin sligh,kithkin rush,elf aggro, merfolk control,rat control ect...these are more or less the foundations of each color on the pie and as such a player shouldnt be hated on just for choosing to play a deck optimally.
As for the no same deck twice rule u suggested? I was just asking simply who's been running the same deck week after week? Far as I'm aware its only been one player and he doesn't even win that often but does tend to do well.
I'm fully aware you've been part of Hammy's article and made comments in it but the point was still the same. Expect people to play within the rules not what we would like to be socially acceptable for a given event.
Be it casual or competitive alot of players will play with what they own regardless of what others think. And honestly they should do exactly that and enjoy themselves.
And to give you a direct example I personally started playing PRE's (This one when it was run by duxdotter and Dark Wars when it was a FFA event that was run by Darkprincess) and built at least 50-70% of my collection from them alone from starting into MTGO with only 10$ when I was broke and it was a cheap form of entertainment. Where I am now and what I own is more or less a direct result of playing in PRE's here on MTGO.
umm it's an accident? thinks like that do happen...sheesh the article date is August 6th which would have been friday. The title is slightly off big deal.
Believe me I am not even on a soap box (I am just that tall :p). If I was I would be far more wordy. No seriously, my caring about this is very low. I think it IS an issue however.
I am just putting solutions out there until one sticks. Or someone else finds a better one. Arguing that there is no need for a solution is a little peculiar after your earlier rants.
Also What is the difference between banning cards in RDW and just banning the deck or banning running the same deck twice? I see little difference.
Your tone in this comment suggests that I haven't been a part of Hammy's articles comments, but clearly that is erroneous. Go reread them yourself if you don't believe me.
I disagree regarding THIS PRE. No one playing this PRE is going to make the leap to competitive play if they are not already competing in larger tourneys. There are no sanctioned tribal wars tourneys and for the reasons you and everyone else here has stated. Were YOU on a soap Box when you started preaching that? Hmmm maybe not but maybe something.
Paul seriously get off that soap box, Archtypes such as RDW (efficiently costed creatures backed up with burn),Sleigh ,mono blue control, mono black control, and elves have more or less existed since the early days of magic if you going to complain about the basic fundamentals of magics color pie your in the wrong game period.
As for the dont bring the same deck twice in a row rule.. who's been constantly bringing the same deck other then James and his rats?
Do yourself a favor and go look at hammy's article and read what people are saying about the TNM and read the debates there. infact i love this quote.
"You can't seriously expect people who are trying to break into competitive play to hobble themselves by not playing the best cards/decks they can."
PRE's are also a gateway to larger tournaments and in this case this is the only outlet for this format so expect people to bring decks that try to win within the rules.
I haven't come across any graveyard hate with this deck as of yet. The deck doesn't rely on recurring stuff from the graveyard. It is more of a bonus actually.
The only decks I have had some difficulty with have been a couple of white weenie variants. I have actually added another Day of Judgment to the sideboard because of this.
Now playing my Naya Shaman deck I have seen quite a bit of graveyard hate.
For the benefit of anyone who like me has no context for what a top 64 means, you really need to spell it out. A quick trip to the mothership tells me there were around 1300 players, putting you into the 1 in 20 who made top 64, with a minimum prize of $200. That sounds pretty good to me once I know what you did.
Very true, it's an even better combo than recasting Sarkhan Vol and using his first ability. Sadly I don't have any Mad versions of Sarkhan yet so wasn't able to test it, but thanks for pointing out the synergy.
He could have meant "plainstriders" /moo
Ugh, I need to cut back on WoW. Thanks for the comment!
And by Plainswalkers you don't mean Antelopes right?
I just wanted to say that I read this whole article even though I don't own any of those plains walkers and don't plan on playing control. The reason I read it was because the author was awesome and made a lot of references that I can relate to. Good Kudos.
Fun deck. I think you missed a cue though. Sarkhan the Mad combos very nicely with the ultimate of his saner self.
Grats on 64th! no small feat.
excellent find !
So 18 cmc for the 7th Teneb? ouch.
Looking at the course of the debate, here seems the best place to make my point. To quote you, 'My previous comments in past issues of tribal apoc were directed at early turn combo decks that give little to no recourse period for opposing decks'.
This most recent Tribal Apocalypse, I played a shoehorned early turn deck that could, and did during the course of the event, go off on turn 3, giving my opponents little to no recourse to prevent me winning.
On the basis of that statement, given your previous stance as quoted above, should that turn 3 win deck be treated the same as the other 'early turn combo decks' against which you successfully got the banned list adjusted?
I ask that you give your answer before looking at the decklist at the following link, for the sake of principle.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75846/25558013/Tribal_Apocal...
Not too surprising, given the 4 of a card limit, but running 4-ofs is something I have a tendency towards. In the case of the lands, I was going for a balance of black/white duals that don't come into play tapped, taking into account the need to run enough swamps to enable Tainted Field (In this case 16, between the basics, fetches and shrines). If I owned Scrubland, I'd have subbed out 4 swamps for it, leading to a perfect all-fours deck.
I just bought 4 of the phylataries tonight and im planning on trying some variations of this build. I do like the first build, but my only suggestion would be maybe to sub out the everflowing chalices for something more useful mid to end game.
This isnt really a deck that lends itself to an advantage in having lots of mana available, so maybe some demon horns that can be thrown in turn 2 for a turn 3 phylactary would help. Plus pulling a demon horn late game can still give you a bit of life, where as pulling a 3rd everflow mid game is pretty useless. The demon horn can be effective in conjunction with a tutelage also perhaps, not to mention GG if you run into any vamp decks.
I killed the tokens so he couldn't rush out a regenerating legend that could survive some of my board wipes.
Good deck. As much as I hate to suggest my most hated card in commander, you should add (Roil Elemental) to that deck.
I was, obviously, the Teneb player. My deck is a fairly explosive deck. It just keeps blowing things up until people run out of gas, then kick their heads in with reanimated dudes.
For the record, the most times I have cast Teneb is 7.
I just noticed something about AJ_Impy's The Final Countdown deck its all four's apart from the swamp's which are 4+4=8. I've never seen a deck as perfect number wise before.
I think it's one thing to recognize something for what it is, and quite another to pass judgment. I have no problems facing the easy button decks except maybe in cas cas when I am testing some jank that I don't need to see top tiered decks in. Otherwise bring it. But recognize it for what it is.
still working on this
Shard I never said it was the rebirth of those tourneys (infact CK wasn't even around when i started playing MTGO and was playing in thoes PRE's), I just pointed out that all players have a starting point and there's no reason that Tribal can't be or hasn't been a starting point in a tournament players career.
As for the "easy button" debate its more or less the same debate of playing "net decks". And all too often even if decks are different then the "net deck" people will still accuse them of playing one. (my personal fav was the player that recently got flamed for playing "zoo" in tribal (It was a cats deck).
I mean really? Who woulda thunk playing a efficient creature base deck in a creature based format. We should ban their deck for playing that right? /rolls eyes.
Don't expect someone to water down their decks, or change playing archtypes or cards that they enjoy that happen to follow the rules, just to appease the crowds.
"Elemental burn, goblin sligh,kithkin rush,elf aggro, merfolk control,rat control ect...these are more or less the foundations of each color on the pie and as such a player shouldnt be hated on just for choosing to play a deck optimally."
Easy button. That is all I have to say about it. (Thanks Staples)
this one isnt really a rebirth of duxdotters or any other ck event...it just happens to share a format.
Actually my previous comments in past issues of tribal apoc were directed at early turn combo decks that give little to no recourse period for opposing decks. Never will u see me advocate bans simply because of social pressures.
Once again Some tribes just do certain things better then others and I'll never fault someone to playing to a particular tribes strengths.
Elemental burn, goblin sligh,kithkin rush,elf aggro, merfolk control,rat control ect...these are more or less the foundations of each color on the pie and as such a player shouldnt be hated on just for choosing to play a deck optimally.
As for the no same deck twice rule u suggested? I was just asking simply who's been running the same deck week after week? Far as I'm aware its only been one player and he doesn't even win that often but does tend to do well.
I'm fully aware you've been part of Hammy's article and made comments in it but the point was still the same. Expect people to play within the rules not what we would like to be socially acceptable for a given event.
Be it casual or competitive alot of players will play with what they own regardless of what others think. And honestly they should do exactly that and enjoy themselves.
And to give you a direct example I personally started playing PRE's (This one when it was run by duxdotter and Dark Wars when it was a FFA event that was run by Darkprincess) and built at least 50-70% of my collection from them alone from starting into MTGO with only 10$ when I was broke and it was a cheap form of entertainment. Where I am now and what I own is more or less a direct result of playing in PRE's here on MTGO.
umm it's an accident? thinks like that do happen...sheesh the article date is August 6th which would have been friday. The title is slightly off big deal.
Believe me I am not even on a soap box (I am just that tall :p). If I was I would be far more wordy. No seriously, my caring about this is very low. I think it IS an issue however.
I am just putting solutions out there until one sticks. Or someone else finds a better one. Arguing that there is no need for a solution is a little peculiar after your earlier rants.
Also What is the difference between banning cards in RDW and just banning the deck or banning running the same deck twice? I see little difference.
Your tone in this comment suggests that I haven't been a part of Hammy's articles comments, but clearly that is erroneous. Go reread them yourself if you don't believe me.
I disagree regarding THIS PRE. No one playing this PRE is going to make the leap to competitive play if they are not already competing in larger tourneys. There are no sanctioned tribal wars tourneys and for the reasons you and everyone else here has stated. Were YOU on a soap Box when you started preaching that? Hmmm maybe not but maybe something.
Why is an article published July 6th on the front page on August 8th?
Paul seriously get off that soap box, Archtypes such as RDW (efficiently costed creatures backed up with burn),Sleigh ,mono blue control, mono black control, and elves have more or less existed since the early days of magic if you going to complain about the basic fundamentals of magics color pie your in the wrong game period.
As for the dont bring the same deck twice in a row rule.. who's been constantly bringing the same deck other then James and his rats?
Do yourself a favor and go look at hammy's article and read what people are saying about the TNM and read the debates there. infact i love this quote.
"You can't seriously expect people who are trying to break into competitive play to hobble themselves by not playing the best cards/decks they can."
PRE's are also a gateway to larger tournaments and in this case this is the only outlet for this format so expect people to bring decks that try to win within the rules.
I haven't come across any graveyard hate with this deck as of yet. The deck doesn't rely on recurring stuff from the graveyard. It is more of a bonus actually.
The only decks I have had some difficulty with have been a couple of white weenie variants. I have actually added another Day of Judgment to the sideboard because of this.
Now playing my Naya Shaman deck I have seen quite a bit of graveyard hate.