Nice casual article. I like how you explain your strategy in designing the deck, and then offer affordable alternatives. I like the deck idea too, so I tried it. Well, a close variant of your econo version.
I worked mostly with cards I already had in my collection, rounding out some numbers with affordable cards from MTGOTraders bots.
I took this list for a whirl in the casual room on MTGO.
I faced a not-so-refined Jund deck in game 1. Not exactly a test of this anti-control strategy. I got the Skeleton Idol silliness going, but a Platinum Angel spoiled the fun as I failed to draw removal for it before it crushed me. My opponent had some Unearth and Gravedigger action in this game, making me wonder if a couple Bojuko Bogs would be a welcome addition to the list.
In my second game I faced a Naya Allies deck. I kept a hand with two Idols and just one creature (not Skeleton). I died around 7 turns later without ever having found another creature. Admittedly, my list is creature-lite, but this was a bad example of how the deck works. It's also a good example of how NOT to make mullgan choices.
UW Merfolk came to play in G3. I had to mulligan a no land hand and kept a hand with two swamps and a Tectonic Edge. Sadly, I mistook the Edge for an Expanse while all my spells were red. I drew more swamps and red spells and choked on some sea food.
I dropped 3 basic lands to add 2 Bogs and a Savage lands. I wasn’t happy with any ideas I had for adding more creatures, so I jumped back into the action with just the mana tweaks.
My fourth game was against a Grixis Cemetery Reaper deck. Bogs seem like a good idea again. I get my colours, creatures, and Idol, so the deck works as planned. Double Idol with Skeleton active and removal spells too makes for a soft lock!
Game five sees me challenge a UG Spider Umbra deck. I keep a hand with just Bog and Expanse for lands. I do draw lands, but they begin tapped and I am slow to get rolling. I do get rolling though, and get the skeleton Idol trick going. A TukTuk token holds his River Boas off while the Idol pecks away at the score. Then my opponent puts Spider Umbra on a little Faerie. The little dude pecks away at my score and draws him cards as I draw 5 lands and 1 insignificant creature over the next 6 turns. He finds his Spreading Seas and the Boas and Faerie finish me off. No bolts, and just one Terminate I used earlier during my slow start.
Granted, the deck is casual and designed to tackle UW control, but I sense I’m having one of those days when nothing will go right for me in Magic, so I end this at 1-4.
I didn't find myself always needing the emeria for the win but the expedition map might be a good way of ensuring it gets found. I might test it as a 5th and 6th emeria and in a pinch it can grab that last plains or edge. You are right about the planar cleansing and I recall thinking that when I left it out in the first place.
Forgot my other comment. The problem I found with with Planar cleansing in the Emeria deck (I've tried it in the deck) is it destroys your Oblivion rings.
I run a very similar Emeria deck. I don't have Baneslayers so I have been using other win conditions like Captain of the watch (good from clogging the ground). I also don't have Knights of White orchid so use the Cartographer. I notice you don't have expedition map. Have you tried it and are you able to get Emerias and Edges consistently enough without them??
How have the squadron hawks been treating you? They may work in my emeria deck. I like cutting back to a bunch of one of cards like sparkmage to make room for reliquary because he is a house.
Why not Iwamori of the Open Fist over The T-Rex in deck #1? The Monk is good on his own and in the face of swarms can Trample through. The drawback is getting a legend dropped into play, but since you are going to make it a wall with shadow it really does not outweigh the benefit. I mean short of some ridonk fatty legend(Prog/Eldrazi/Iona) or a shrouded legend, there isn't much draw back to him in this deck.
Here's the Vengevine deck I was using with a fair degree of success for Standard. My only regret was being unable to fit Ajani Vengeant in here. Your idea of SB leyline seems quite good, by the way. - Nate
Is your next article going to cover the events you've been playing in? Because I was mostly curious about the Valakut Titan matchup. I know in your article that you state Ascension and Valakut Titan are difficult to win against but with most Valakut running 4 Summoning Trap in sideboard and some even in their main, how do you even compete? The Leyline does help mitigate the Valakut damage but it just seems like a very very difficult situation to me.
Dude you are so right on so many levels. The one thing I think you might be wrong about is that I don't think Mr Menery wants Timmys to act immaturely just to get their way. I suspect what he means by that is that a group decides what is cool and what isn't in their own kitchens. Unfortunately for commander it isn't in a situation that is small enough to handle kitchen politics.
As for refusing to play with Antisocial players I do so myself. But my definition is "those who refuse to chat or otherwise interact", not "those who play cards I hate to face." I also recognize, not everyone shares the same values, so I am very leery as a spike/johnny/timmy to join groups where their values are vastly different from mine.
As for the time differences in passing priorities, This CAN be solved by responsible keyboarding. (F6/F4 is very common practice.) I, myself tend to hit F2 repeatedly (much faster than clicking OK 10 times) until I see something that needs a response.
For what it's worth, there are two things keeping me from playing more Commander online:
1) The slow pace of play. Sure, there are 4 players and lots of new-card reading going on. But passing priority 4 times takes a toll. And with 4 players, people get bored, don't pay attention, they multi-task. Ugh. I can't blame them. In paper this isn't a problem. But online just watching these games is excruciating.
2) The players are self-righteous and rude. So they're allowed to play Animate Dead + Iona, but I'm not allowed to play Stuffy + Guilty Conscience? My combo only affects one player. Now I've been yelled at and blocked. That's not fun for me! Thoughtseize is bad. Blood Moon is bad. Armageddon is a new taboo to me. But the problem isn't playing taboo cards. I can avoid the obvious ones, but I bet I'll still get yelled at for Hymn to Tourach. There's a problem with playing Magic with Timmy. Timmy will flip the table if he gets mad. Timmy is not a fun person to be around. And the thing is, if I Thoughtseize Timmy, I might be thinking to myself "Oh man, I'm glad I saw that hand, because I am screwed. Man what a good draw!" But Timmy will just get mad that I binned his Elvish Archdruid, yell at me, and concede. Yeah, yeah, thicker skin and all that. But it sure isn't fun. At least when you Armageddon a Spike, Spike takes it to the chin like a champ. He may concede if he's beat, but he won't lash out at you. Spike will also play with you again.
As a side point to number two, someone please point out to Mr. Menery that he seems to be endorsing this attitude. "Refusing to play with antisocial persons..." is telling Timmy to conquer the world with his idea of fun. This is why we have one consistent banned list. Allowing people to make personal exceptions is what gives Timmy his false sense of entitlement. Mr. Menery should be saying "Make sure that all players agree to the rules before the game starts, and always act with good sportsmanship." Huge difference.
Not that Magic Online correctly implements your banned list anyway. :|
Ah, the mass polymorph deck also ran battlements and though I didn't see rite I assumed it was in there, I did see Emrakul later so it looked like the deck you are describing. I guess they are similar decks eh?
The deck I played in the PRE was a mass polymorph deck. The deck I am talking about is a deck that runs a bunch of mana excelleration and then cast rite of replication on overgrown battlements. Draws a bunch of cards to Emrakul, then cast him for the win.
Spendid, the three color deck didnt work so well. I am still running the blue green version, but have some successs. Oddly I played someone with an almost identical deck that ran Avenger of Zendikar. Playing a rite on him kicked is awesome.
The person who programmed Commander rules is Lee Sharpe. He programmed Commander into MTGO on his free time. Not sure if he get's reimbursement now or not, but if he doesn't, then there is no guarantee the rules will be updated when the rules committee makes bannings. He may not even be a programmer now and it could be left in limbo. So rules simply can not be programmed into the client like the rules for no generals with off color activations.
Eldrazi are actually not that terrible, with the exception of Erakul. And it's really the timewalk that makes him so powerful. All the other 'drazi can be dealt with pretty easily. But don't expect any bannings on them. While powerful, they don't really warp the format without the fast mana enablers like Channel or RoFo.
Ive quit playing emrakul all together. No one has fun when it comes down and normally i paid the whole 15 mana. People still quit. And i got sick of it being Bribery'ed by my opponent.
Emrakul can be an issue if it comes out early and you're caught with your pants down. However, if you build your decks with specific answers in mind, you have a better shot of dealing with the flying jellyfish. I talked about a variety of answers in the Dakkon article two weeks ago. If you don't come prepared, you have to realize that there are going to be cards, including Emrakul, that you will just lose to. And even if you are prepared, you may lose to them anyway. Emrakul is annoying, but unless Sheldon and the other rules people find that there are no answers and the Eldrazi destroy the game play experience, my guess is that they will be here to stay.
Oh yeah, it's cool to see more people here in the comments that I've played against online!
To address this in terms of Commander:
Armageddon is one of my personal favorites as effects go. I don't see how it is even in the same league as the annihilators except when you are already winning. As a mix of the psychographics my pov may be a little different from many other commander players.
This may be one reason I don't play Commander often: I find many commander players to be fairly contentious about the unfairnesses they favor and the ones they dislike. And down right antisocial when confronted with their own hypocrisy. This isn't always the case of course, but it is enough of a problem that I prefer non-multiplayer games where the time involved in getting a game together is usually trivial by comparison and a quick block solves communications issues. (Hence I play TWC mostly.)
I can definitely see a case for banning Emrakul and some of the more difficult to kill annihilators but honestly is that any healthier than banning LD and counters? If a Gentleman's agreement about what is and isn't fair/fun can't be reached to everyone's satisfaction, what makes banning cards right and left any more effective? Also keep in mind the EDH committee while ruling on EDH does not actual rule on Commander. So rules changes to one may not filter up to the other immediately or at all.
Unfortunatly they felt that they did not want to ban the annihilator creatures. They did ban some of the cards that enabled to play these creatures really fast. Eladamri, Lord of Leaves has been banned as a general, staff of domination has been banned, as well as Tolarian Academy. Click on the link Sheldon has in the articles to go to the official EDH pages and in the forums are the updates on the rules, as well as those wanting the ban hammer on Emrakul as well.
Well I am glad you tried it for sure. I think you are right on where you had a day where nothing goes right
Nice casual article. I like how you explain your strategy in designing the deck, and then offer affordable alternatives. I like the deck idea too, so I tried it. Well, a close variant of your econo version.
I worked mostly with cards I already had in my collection, rounding out some numbers with affordable cards from MTGOTraders bots.
4 Akoum Refuge
4 Blightning
4 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Jinxed Idol
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Liliana's Specter
6 Mountain
4 Reassembling Skeleton
7 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Terminate
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Tuktuk the Explorer
I took this list for a whirl in the casual room on MTGO.
I faced a not-so-refined Jund deck in game 1. Not exactly a test of this anti-control strategy. I got the Skeleton Idol silliness going, but a Platinum Angel spoiled the fun as I failed to draw removal for it before it crushed me. My opponent had some Unearth and Gravedigger action in this game, making me wonder if a couple Bojuko Bogs would be a welcome addition to the list.
In my second game I faced a Naya Allies deck. I kept a hand with two Idols and just one creature (not Skeleton). I died around 7 turns later without ever having found another creature. Admittedly, my list is creature-lite, but this was a bad example of how the deck works. It's also a good example of how NOT to make mullgan choices.
UW Merfolk came to play in G3. I had to mulligan a no land hand and kept a hand with two swamps and a Tectonic Edge. Sadly, I mistook the Edge for an Expanse while all my spells were red. I drew more swamps and red spells and choked on some sea food.
I dropped 3 basic lands to add 2 Bogs and a Savage lands. I wasn’t happy with any ideas I had for adding more creatures, so I jumped back into the action with just the mana tweaks.
My fourth game was against a Grixis Cemetery Reaper deck. Bogs seem like a good idea again. I get my colours, creatures, and Idol, so the deck works as planned. Double Idol with Skeleton active and removal spells too makes for a soft lock!
Game five sees me challenge a UG Spider Umbra deck. I keep a hand with just Bog and Expanse for lands. I do draw lands, but they begin tapped and I am slow to get rolling. I do get rolling though, and get the skeleton Idol trick going. A TukTuk token holds his River Boas off while the Idol pecks away at the score. Then my opponent puts Spider Umbra on a little Faerie. The little dude pecks away at my score and draws him cards as I draw 5 lands and 1 insignificant creature over the next 6 turns. He finds his Spreading Seas and the Boas and Faerie finish me off. No bolts, and just one Terminate I used earlier during my slow start.
Granted, the deck is casual and designed to tackle UW control, but I sense I’m having one of those days when nothing will go right for me in Magic, so I end this at 1-4.
I didn't find myself always needing the emeria for the win but the expedition map might be a good way of ensuring it gets found. I might test it as a 5th and 6th emeria and in a pinch it can grab that last plains or edge. You are right about the planar cleansing and I recall thinking that when I left it out in the first place.
Forgot my other comment. The problem I found with with Planar cleansing in the Emeria deck (I've tried it in the deck) is it destroys your Oblivion rings.
I run a very similar Emeria deck. I don't have Baneslayers so I have been using other win conditions like Captain of the watch (good from clogging the ground). I also don't have Knights of White orchid so use the Cartographer. I notice you don't have expedition map. Have you tried it and are you able to get Emerias and Edges consistently enough without them??
How have the squadron hawks been treating you? They may work in my emeria deck. I like cutting back to a bunch of one of cards like sparkmage to make room for reliquary because he is a house.
This looks alot like the NL Naya that came out a few months ago. I like the splash for bog in the sideboard (vs mirror I am guessing?)
Why not Iwamori of the Open Fist over The T-Rex in deck #1? The Monk is good on his own and in the face of swarms can Trample through. The drawback is getting a legend dropped into play, but since you are going to make it a wall with shadow it really does not outweigh the benefit. I mean short of some ridonk fatty legend(Prog/Eldrazi/Iona) or a shrouded legend, there isn't much draw back to him in this deck.
Here's the Vengevine deck I was using with a fair degree of success for Standard. My only regret was being unable to fit Ajani Vengeant in here. Your idea of SB leyline seems quite good, by the way. - Nate
// Lands
3 [ROE] Mountain (1)
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
5 [M10] Forest (1)
2 [ALA] Plains (4)
1 [WWK] Raging Ravine
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Stirring Wildwood
1 [WWK] Sejiri Steppe
1 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
4 [ALA] Jungle Shrine
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
// Creatures
1 [ALA] Ranger of Eos
4 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
4 [ROE] Vengevine
1 [WWK] Cunning Sparkmage
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [M11] Squadron Hawk
1 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [M11] Fauna Shaman
1 [ZEN] Goblin Bushwhacker
1 [ZEN] Scute Mob
4 [M10] Birds of Paradise
// Spells
1 [ARB] Behemoth Sledge
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
SB: 3 [WWK] Cunning Sparkmage
SB: 4 [ZEN] Goblin Ruinblaster
SB: 3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
Is your next article going to cover the events you've been playing in? Because I was mostly curious about the Valakut Titan matchup. I know in your article that you state Ascension and Valakut Titan are difficult to win against but with most Valakut running 4 Summoning Trap in sideboard and some even in their main, how do you even compete? The Leyline does help mitigate the Valakut damage but it just seems like a very very difficult situation to me.
Dude you are so right on so many levels. The one thing I think you might be wrong about is that I don't think Mr Menery wants Timmys to act immaturely just to get their way. I suspect what he means by that is that a group decides what is cool and what isn't in their own kitchens. Unfortunately for commander it isn't in a situation that is small enough to handle kitchen politics.
As for refusing to play with Antisocial players I do so myself. But my definition is "those who refuse to chat or otherwise interact", not "those who play cards I hate to face." I also recognize, not everyone shares the same values, so I am very leery as a spike/johnny/timmy to join groups where their values are vastly different from mine.
As for the time differences in passing priorities, This CAN be solved by responsible keyboarding. (F6/F4 is very common practice.) I, myself tend to hit F2 repeatedly (much faster than clicking OK 10 times) until I see something that needs a response.
For what it's worth, there are two things keeping me from playing more Commander online:
1) The slow pace of play. Sure, there are 4 players and lots of new-card reading going on. But passing priority 4 times takes a toll. And with 4 players, people get bored, don't pay attention, they multi-task. Ugh. I can't blame them. In paper this isn't a problem. But online just watching these games is excruciating.
2) The players are self-righteous and rude. So they're allowed to play Animate Dead + Iona, but I'm not allowed to play Stuffy + Guilty Conscience? My combo only affects one player. Now I've been yelled at and blocked. That's not fun for me! Thoughtseize is bad. Blood Moon is bad. Armageddon is a new taboo to me. But the problem isn't playing taboo cards. I can avoid the obvious ones, but I bet I'll still get yelled at for Hymn to Tourach. There's a problem with playing Magic with Timmy. Timmy will flip the table if he gets mad. Timmy is not a fun person to be around. And the thing is, if I Thoughtseize Timmy, I might be thinking to myself "Oh man, I'm glad I saw that hand, because I am screwed. Man what a good draw!" But Timmy will just get mad that I binned his Elvish Archdruid, yell at me, and concede. Yeah, yeah, thicker skin and all that. But it sure isn't fun. At least when you Armageddon a Spike, Spike takes it to the chin like a champ. He may concede if he's beat, but he won't lash out at you. Spike will also play with you again.
As a side point to number two, someone please point out to Mr. Menery that he seems to be endorsing this attitude. "Refusing to play with antisocial persons..." is telling Timmy to conquer the world with his idea of fun. This is why we have one consistent banned list. Allowing people to make personal exceptions is what gives Timmy his false sense of entitlement. Mr. Menery should be saying "Make sure that all players agree to the rules before the game starts, and always act with good sportsmanship." Huge difference.
Not that Magic Online correctly implements your banned list anyway. :|
Ah, the mass polymorph deck also ran battlements and though I didn't see rite I assumed it was in there, I did see Emrakul later so it looked like the deck you are describing. I guess they are similar decks eh?
They keep up with the bannings. Academy and staff are both gone now.
The deck I played in the PRE was a mass polymorph deck. The deck I am talking about is a deck that runs a bunch of mana excelleration and then cast rite of replication on overgrown battlements. Draws a bunch of cards to Emrakul, then cast him for the win.
Spendid, the three color deck didnt work so well. I am still running the blue green version, but have some successs. Oddly I played someone with an almost identical deck that ran Avenger of Zendikar. Playing a rite on him kicked is awesome.
The person who programmed Commander rules is Lee Sharpe. He programmed Commander into MTGO on his free time. Not sure if he get's reimbursement now or not, but if he doesn't, then there is no guarantee the rules will be updated when the rules committee makes bannings. He may not even be a programmer now and it could be left in limbo. So rules simply can not be programmed into the client like the rules for no generals with off color activations.
Aura Gnarlid seems an obvious include for Deck #1 acting as a weaker, harder to block enchantress.
That happened in the last commander game I played. People were definitely more pissed at the guy who had brought Emmy than at the guy who bribed him.
Eldrazi are actually not that terrible, with the exception of Erakul. And it's really the timewalk that makes him so powerful. All the other 'drazi can be dealt with pretty easily. But don't expect any bannings on them. While powerful, they don't really warp the format without the fast mana enablers like Channel or RoFo.
Time Stretch only costs 10
Mind Slaver+ activation too.
(randomly chosen examples)
if you can't beat those (or other 8+ mana cards) you shouldnt whine about them jelliefishes.
Yes I meant Rofellos
Ive quit playing emrakul all together. No one has fun when it comes down and normally i paid the whole 15 mana. People still quit. And i got sick of it being Bribery'ed by my opponent.
Pretty sure you meant Rofellos, not Eladamri.
Emrakul can be an issue if it comes out early and you're caught with your pants down. However, if you build your decks with specific answers in mind, you have a better shot of dealing with the flying jellyfish. I talked about a variety of answers in the Dakkon article two weeks ago. If you don't come prepared, you have to realize that there are going to be cards, including Emrakul, that you will just lose to. And even if you are prepared, you may lose to them anyway. Emrakul is annoying, but unless Sheldon and the other rules people find that there are no answers and the Eldrazi destroy the game play experience, my guess is that they will be here to stay.
Oh yeah, it's cool to see more people here in the comments that I've played against online!
To address this in terms of Commander:
Armageddon is one of my personal favorites as effects go. I don't see how it is even in the same league as the annihilators except when you are already winning. As a mix of the psychographics my pov may be a little different from many other commander players.
This may be one reason I don't play Commander often: I find many commander players to be fairly contentious about the unfairnesses they favor and the ones they dislike. And down right antisocial when confronted with their own hypocrisy. This isn't always the case of course, but it is enough of a problem that I prefer non-multiplayer games where the time involved in getting a game together is usually trivial by comparison and a quick block solves communications issues. (Hence I play TWC mostly.)
I can definitely see a case for banning Emrakul and some of the more difficult to kill annihilators but honestly is that any healthier than banning LD and counters? If a Gentleman's agreement about what is and isn't fair/fun can't be reached to everyone's satisfaction, what makes banning cards right and left any more effective? Also keep in mind the EDH committee while ruling on EDH does not actual rule on Commander. So rules changes to one may not filter up to the other immediately or at all.
Unfortunatly they felt that they did not want to ban the annihilator creatures. They did ban some of the cards that enabled to play these creatures really fast. Eladamri, Lord of Leaves has been banned as a general, staff of domination has been banned, as well as Tolarian Academy. Click on the link Sheldon has in the articles to go to the official EDH pages and in the forums are the updates on the rules, as well as those wanting the ban hammer on Emrakul as well.