And it's testable online. Put out a doubling season and sacrifice a 2-toughness persist guy. The guy comes back with two -1/-1 counters on it and dies immediately to state based effects (zero toughness). The key wording on Doubling Season is "if {something} would put a counter ..." which doesn't have the exact same wording on Melira, but it amounts to the same thing: Melira effectively says "if {something} would put a -1/-1 counter on one of your creatures, instead it doesn't put any of those counters on it".
I guess the other key bit about Doubling Season is that it also hacks the number of counters placed on something as part of its resolution/coming into play--this includes "this comes into play with x counters" style static abilities as well as delayed ETB effects which use the stack. You can test this online too, or just take gatherer's word on it: Doubling Season affects cards that "enter the battlefield with" a certain number of counters". To cut to the chase, Melira will also replace that kind of static ability with one that says that the creature enters with no -1/-1 counters.
With apologies to people who don't like over-long or over-technical comments...
And the combo can be done for infinite life on t3 or instant death on t4 using melira, persist duders, and greater gargadon. Very similiar to juniper order ranger combo, just melira costs 3 less mana and doestn help you without the other combo peices.
No, the combo works. Melira is a static ability, and the critter just comes back without a couunter. Let's just say that there are a couple of brutal combos out there with this card: Woodfall Primus and free sac outlet, or just about any persist card with a good ability and free sac outlet.
I don't think the combo you intimate with Melira, Sylvok Outcast will work. She specifically says that your critters cannot have -1/-1 counters "placed" on them. The counters that are part of the persist ability are part of the effect of the critter returning from the graveyard. Here's the gatherer text.
Persist (When this creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
The redcap will enter the battlefield with the -1/-1 counter already on it, at which point he is beyond Melira's help. At least I certainly hope that's the case, otherwise that's some seriously busted shit that I never want to see played against me in a commander game.
Yea, you're definitely right about the Pathrazer, I'm probably gonna put up another ZWR article (soon maybe?) but I don't want people to get the takeaway that Pathrazer's good. Even I thought my deck was gonna be trash because of the 5-11 gap but the ONLY reason it worked out for me is cause I had a ton of cards that acted as ramp (usually repeatedly) like Frontier Guide and Everflowing Chalice. If I didn't have those two cards, there's no way I would've reached 11 mana in any of those games.
I still haven't seen the speed you guys have been talking about it, like I've seen the really fast decks but usually they just lose, guess I need more experience.
But yea, trying to play Pathrazer is usually not a good idea, but taking big guys is fine and almost needed, I think, for a strong late game, I'd always be looking to take a Ulamog's Crusher.
Your build looks really solid. I especially like the revokers you have in the maindeck. They're much better maindecked now that Metalworker is online.
Again, your topdecking skills are really good. You manage to go 4-0 with your matchups without running Knight of the Reliquary (my beater of choice) in your deck. I really love kotr but your bears get the job done.
FoWing Teeg is better than anything Pierce does against GW bears when playing Gush,Storm,Jace decks. The StP/Claim/Vial is harder to Pierce past turn 3-4 and mostly Irrel in that Match Up. The Pierce for FoW is equal to the Spirit Guide used as a resource for Teeg.
Nice article, but the ZWR format is definitely fast enough that you don't want to play an 11 mana guy that isn't a Mythic Rare, and probably not even the Gyre himself. Zendikar and WWK are full of evasive/aggressive two drops, and ROE has plenty of aggressive early drops in most of the colors. If your curve jumps from 5 to 11, that should be a warning sign.
There are also a plethora of cards at common that deal with eldrazi monsters. Even when you drafted the spawn/ramp deck in RRR, Pathrazer was unplayable, so in a much faster format like this he is even worse. Pelakka Wurm and Ulamog's Crusher are still as good as ever though, especially the wurm since the lifegain is way better than it used to be.
it is in all actuality a 2 for 2, however i dont veiw esg as a spell. its soul purpose is to power out duders. its not like i would have played that esg if i could help it, where as spell pierce can hit 8 cards in my deck
Which would be extremely helpful if I wanted it full screen. Most often I am doing things on my computer other than just watching videos, which full screen hinders. There are options on YouTube to embed videos with specific dimensions which you can utilize to make bigger but still manageable videos.
I suspect the most common use of Unwinding Clock (in limited formats) will be with Heavy Arbalest equipped to an artifact creature, especially one with Infect. And yes, they worded the card such that it's a static ability rather than a triggered ability, meaning it doesn't use the stack and you can't respond to it. If instead it said, "At the beginning of each other players untap step" then it would trigger and you could respond.
But! Some nitpicks.. you can't name Lotus Cobra with Revoker. Landfall is triggered, not activated.
And Force of Will pitching Spell Pierce to stop your Gaddock when pitching Elvish Spirit Guide is not a 2-for-1.
What do you think about naming Voltaic Key rather than Time Vault with Revoker? Vault doesn't do much on its own but Key has utility with other cards like Sol Ring and Top.
You're right, and actually I did mean Silverskin Armor. It's kind of embarrassing to mention all creatures with cool tap abilities and then forget which card makes them artifacts permanently.
And it's testable online. Put out a doubling season and sacrifice a 2-toughness persist guy. The guy comes back with two -1/-1 counters on it and dies immediately to state based effects (zero toughness). The key wording on Doubling Season is "if {something} would put a counter ..." which doesn't have the exact same wording on Melira, but it amounts to the same thing: Melira effectively says "if {something} would put a -1/-1 counter on one of your creatures, instead it doesn't put any of those counters on it".
I guess the other key bit about Doubling Season is that it also hacks the number of counters placed on something as part of its resolution/coming into play--this includes "this comes into play with x counters" style static abilities as well as delayed ETB effects which use the stack. You can test this online too, or just take gatherer's word on it: Doubling Season affects cards that "enter the battlefield with" a certain number of counters". To cut to the chase, Melira will also replace that kind of static ability with one that says that the creature enters with no -1/-1 counters.
With apologies to people who don't like over-long or over-technical comments...
It is just a 10/10 for (5)
As long as your 2/2 for (1)(G) is around anyway.
And the combo can be done for infinite life on t3 or instant death on t4 using melira, persist duders, and greater gargadon. Very similiar to juniper order ranger combo, just melira costs 3 less mana and doestn help you without the other combo peices.
No, the combo works. Melira is a static ability, and the critter just comes back without a couunter. Let's just say that there are a couple of brutal combos out there with this card: Woodfall Primus and free sac outlet, or just about any persist card with a good ability and free sac outlet.
I don't think the combo you intimate with Melira, Sylvok Outcast will work. She specifically says that your critters cannot have -1/-1 counters "placed" on them. The counters that are part of the persist ability are part of the effect of the critter returning from the graveyard. Here's the gatherer text.
Persist (When this creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
The redcap will enter the battlefield with the -1/-1 counter already on it, at which point he is beyond Melira's help. At least I certainly hope that's the case, otherwise that's some seriously busted shit that I never want to see played against me in a commander game.
Thanks!
Glad to see that State of the Program is in good hands.
Yea, you're definitely right about the Pathrazer, I'm probably gonna put up another ZWR article (soon maybe?) but I don't want people to get the takeaway that Pathrazer's good. Even I thought my deck was gonna be trash because of the 5-11 gap but the ONLY reason it worked out for me is cause I had a ton of cards that acted as ramp (usually repeatedly) like Frontier Guide and Everflowing Chalice. If I didn't have those two cards, there's no way I would've reached 11 mana in any of those games.
I still haven't seen the speed you guys have been talking about it, like I've seen the really fast decks but usually they just lose, guess I need more experience.
But yea, trying to play Pathrazer is usually not a good idea, but taking big guys is fine and almost needed, I think, for a strong late game, I'd always be looking to take a Ulamog's Crusher.
Yw :D
thx sir!
Whiffy if you want a slightly less eye-gouging pic, try this one: (I clipped the unstretched version and then resized it to 85x85px)
http://outofthebrokensky.com/mtgo/whiffy85x85.jpg
.
sorry for the posts it lagged out while saving.
Your build looks really solid. I especially like the revokers you have in the maindeck. They're much better maindecked now that Metalworker is online.
Again, your topdecking skills are really good. You manage to go 4-0 with your matchups without running Knight of the Reliquary (my beater of choice) in your deck. I really love kotr but your bears get the job done.
FoWing Teeg is better than anything Pierce does against GW bears when playing Gush,Storm,Jace decks. The StP/Claim/Vial is harder to Pierce past turn 3-4 and mostly Irrel in that Match Up. The Pierce for FoW is equal to the Spirit Guide used as a resource for Teeg.
Nice article, but the ZWR format is definitely fast enough that you don't want to play an 11 mana guy that isn't a Mythic Rare, and probably not even the Gyre himself. Zendikar and WWK are full of evasive/aggressive two drops, and ROE has plenty of aggressive early drops in most of the colors. If your curve jumps from 5 to 11, that should be a warning sign.
There are also a plethora of cards at common that deal with eldrazi monsters. Even when you drafted the spawn/ramp deck in RRR, Pathrazer was unplayable, so in a much faster format like this he is even worse. Pelakka Wurm and Ulamog's Crusher are still as good as ever though, especially the wurm since the lifegain is way better than it used to be.
also the 2 for 1 on gaddock teeg.
it is in all actuality a 2 for 2, however i dont veiw esg as a spell. its soul purpose is to power out duders. its not like i would have played that esg if i could help it, where as spell pierce can hit 8 cards in my deck
ok ill dig around and see what i can do for the next one, havent uploaded them to u tube yet.
Which would be extremely helpful if I wanted it full screen. Most often I am doing things on my computer other than just watching videos, which full screen hinders. There are options on YouTube to embed videos with specific dimensions which you can utilize to make bigger but still manageable videos.
open the article.
hit play on a video.
hit the full screen button in bottom right of video.
Do you mind making the videos a bit larger so I don't have to watch them in YouTube to be able to see what's going on?
Keep up the good work! :)
I suspect the most common use of Unwinding Clock (in limited formats) will be with Heavy Arbalest equipped to an artifact creature, especially one with Infect. And yes, they worded the card such that it's a static ability rather than a triggered ability, meaning it doesn't use the stack and you can't respond to it. If instead it said, "At the beginning of each other players untap step" then it would trigger and you could respond.
Have to name Time Vault or Tezz can go infi without Key.
Good work, as usual. You topdeck like a pro!
But! Some nitpicks.. you can't name Lotus Cobra with Revoker. Landfall is triggered, not activated.
And Force of Will pitching Spell Pierce to stop your Gaddock when pitching Elvish Spirit Guide is not a 2-for-1.
What do you think about naming Voltaic Key rather than Time Vault with Revoker? Vault doesn't do much on its own but Key has utility with other cards like Sol Ring and Top.
You're right, and actually I did mean Silverskin Armor. It's kind of embarrassing to mention all creatures with cool tap abilities and then forget which card makes them artifacts permanently.