Another good homage article with your own flair. I love the "What's worth playing" section with the average and No Money vs. Lottery...as as old school player I am often jumping between the classic sets and this may help sway what i play certain times. I disagree about Jtms though, I think he'll hit 70 before rotation out, then go to about 60 on a perm basis..could be wrong, but my opinion.
Thanks Shard, but I think he was referring to Vault Skirge. :-)
#skirge
I hardly find th eSkirge competitive against a 2CMC 2/3 such as Kor Skyfisher. Add to that the massive amount of Fume Spitters being played right now and removal such as Virulent Wound. Doesn't seem to me like a Skirge can survive more than a single turn, and it needs to get through at least two times before the LP, mana and card investment repays itself. I really can't see it as 2nd best. :-/
I've played probably 15-20 matches with essentially your list, something like:
-1 Rebuild
-4 duress
+3 Thoughtseize
+1 Gifts
+1 Scroll
(I was pretty sure my list ran 3x Gifts...but I'm not sure what else I cut. It was semi-close to this though)
And as much as I wanted to like the 6CC spells and Gifts, they're just terrible to draw until you're already winning, which is why I'd suggest trimming them to add some consistency. If you do keep the 6CC spell route, you should at the very least -1x Duress +1x Mana Vault so you can cast them.
And as far as LEDs -- the only matchups you want to Force are Belcher and Flash. For Belcher, I'm willing to lose if they draw the nuts, and Thoughtseizes are usually pretty brutal to them if I get to play. Flash it would definitely be nice to have some Forces and play control...but it's an uncommon enough matchup, I'm willing to just try and race it.
In my list, playing "Combo/Control" usually means playing a Bob and/or Library, then drawing a million cards and thoughtseizing them until they can't do anything. I do like Gush/Bond much more than Bob if you're splashing green already, I just don't think adding Force and Scrolls is the way to go.
Against Stax, I've been trying something (U/B/W)
MAIN:
2x Ancient Tomb, 1x Rebuild, 1x Hurkyls, 1x Chain of Vapor
SIDE:
2x Ancient Tomb, 1x Hurkyls, 4x Serenity
and...occasionally I don't lose. The problem I've found with boarding plans where you bring in 8+ cards is you still only have about 60-70% chance of winning the game post board, and because you lose pretty much 100% of game 1s, you're still unfavored for the matchup.
Anyway -- just a few suggestions from a guy who's played hundreds of matches with the deck :).
I find it interesting that you gave a negative review to the 2nd best card in the batch. Gitaxian Probe is obviously the #1 card from the cards you reviewed (and probably the whole set), and Vault Skirge is pretty clearly #2 (in the whole set the Elf is probably #2). I understand that you're reviewing in the context of STD pauper so you won't be slapping Rancor or Bonesplitter on it, but this guy is still one of the best 1-drops ever made at common. Just about every color can find a good use for him. If Infect is dominating the meta, some decks might move him to the sideboard but it's not like there's better one drops to replace him with.
Another thing nobody seems to be mentioning about blade splicer is that you can bounce your splicer with your jace and play him again, to build up a 3/3 each time. I can definitely see this coming up.
Also yeah, I'm pretty sure every constructed review is talking about this guy to some extent!
U titan eats Obliterator (obviously)
G and B titans produce 4 permanents before being blocked by obliterator (G titan has trample so he does 5, not 6 damage to it)
W titan produce at least 2 permanents (not enought, i agree here).
Obliterator eats R titan (and other cards from R decks, that destroy creatures by damage)
"I bet you did not expect to see this card in a constructed review, right?" Perhaps you missed Lord Erman's take on the set? He specifically mentioned Splicer for basically the same reasons you did. a 3/3 token + a 1/1 body for 3 is not bad at all.
With respect I thing you need to test the list before making random comments of cut this and cut that Both Gifts and Bargain are central to this skill intensive build. LED builds goldfish faster but it is much less resilient and does not mulligan like the gush build. The LED version can only play in one mode - combo. Whilst the gush list has the option of explosive combo or playing combo control and I post board this deck has better game versus the best deck in the format.
I'm a huge fan of the topdeck tutors in Gush lists, because they're cheap ways to keep your engine going, and I have had a lot of problems with Gush/Bond fizzling because I draw a bunch non-action spells. Mind's Desire and Bargain fill pretty much the same slot, and they're both cards that you almost never want to draw, so you really only need one. Mind's desire is the better one if you're adding MT. I'm not a huge fan of gifts, because it costs a ton of mana to Cast + Win with it.
Also -- I tested a pretty similar list (though only in TP), and I still think Gush is much better in an Infernal/Lion's Eye build rather than with Merchant Scroll/Force of Will, particularly now that most shop decks are running Metalworker, so you often have 2 Sphere-free turns to win. Your list needs a nut draw to get a Turn 2 win (you need fastbond, 2 lands, and gush in hand by turn 2, where fastbond is restricted and can only be found by restricted tutors), where an IT list you can win by turn 2 about 30-40% of the time goldfishing (all of your "oops I win" cards are redundant and unrestricted).
I can't help but disagree with your review of Phyrexian Obliterator. Yes, you need basically a mono black deck to use him, but my gosh, he is stone cold nuts in that deck. A turn 4 Obliterator on either the play or draw is a nightmare for an opponent if they don't have Go for the Throat or Dismember (or Jace until he rotates). You talked about the Titans, but this guy eats them for lunch! Aside from getting their ETB effects, who would want to attack with their Titan into this guy knowing they'd have to sac 5 permanents just to get rid of one card!?!? Seriously, how many permanents does one have in play with a turn 6 titan? 7-9, 10 at most? Sac'ing upwards of half your permanents does not sound very appealing. In the meantime, you've likely swung in for 5-10 damage which is nothing to sneeze at either.
so 1st. you would pick gush over other decks because its fun and new? you want a chance at glory for breaking the right build?
good point about the rapidly dropping uz prices too.
also we finished recording this about an hour b4 the classic de fired. last week the de fired the nite b4 we did the podcast, and lists were up on decks of the week page by the time we sat down to record.
You guys kept mentioning that there were no events this past week, yet there was a DE that fired on May 7th. Maybe you guys recorded this on May 7th, but you were quick to highlight the May 1st DE in your last podcast, which was only 6 days earlier.
Anyway, good stuff. For my sake, and others, I hope that the run up on Legacy prices are strictly due to GP Providence, but I am very, very skeptical. These prices have been going up for a good 3 months now, and longer on certain cards (*cough* FOW, LED *cough*). I think SCG Open Series has had a MUCH higher impact on the prices as people see the populatiry and prices rising in paper and either speculating or hoarding that digital prices do the same, which to some extent they have. Overall, I don't see anything that WOTC can do to help the prices other than releasing the sets for a week like they are doing for MVW and TSE.
Great cast guys. I almost enjoy this more than a deck-by-deck tournament breakdown. =) I agree with almost everything Owen said except for "this is a great time to get into Legacy." Unless you plan on testing for a paper event, this is the worst time to get into Legacy. Wait and see what June brings. So many people, myself included, are speculating that this increase is in part based on GP Providence, which is less than a couple weeks away. So, if anyone is thinking of picking up staples . . . maybe think again. The only exception may be some cards you get from NixTix drafters if and when the bots are saturated and stop buying.
Now is actually a better time to buy some Classic TSE/MVW staples. Oaths are going to hit an all time low, I feel. I think I may pick them up even though I haven't Force of Will yet, just because the prices seem to be bottoming out.
Lastly about prices, people are so hog wild over these nix tix events, remember that the UZ queues are still up and the prices are getting super low. Last week I picked up Goblin Welders at $17 and thought it was a steal, and now they've gone even lower! Don't forget to keep an eye on UZ block staples and snag them before the draft queues are gone.
Re: Masques. *sigh* I was sorely disappointed with the feeding frenzy and inflated prices of UD... I can't imagine what it will be like for MM. Port is going to probably start $30-50, depending on how crazy and desperate the pre-release buyers are. UD seemed to break the "pre-releases have higher prices" mould. Workshop started in the $50 range and slowly settled around the mid teens, whereas Metalworker began around the mid to high teens and has only gone up since then. I fear MM will follow that trend, but I'm not sure. No one seems to remember that Dredge gets its final piece with MM: Unmask. =D I expect that to be a $7 card.
Re: Gush. One thing you didn't explain is why someone should choose this over traditional Storm variants or other tier 1 decks, like Oath. What does a Gush deck offer that makes someone choose this over other options?
#wellspring: well, there's ferrovore but it doesn't come for free. Oxidda Daredevil could be a decent outlet as well as Rusted Slasher. None are too useful by themselves, but maybe there's a deck that could find a way to use all of them. I guess time will tell. :-)
#phybrid: Yes, Phybrid mana is awesome in every deck. I agree that the blue/colorless flyer is tempting for that price, but you really have to be desperate to play flying creatures. Even Hovermyr costs just 2 mana. And it has Vigilance too.
Thank you very much for the feedback! I promise I'll triple check every card for Part 2; it's almost ready and I have a whole week end to make it better. ;-)
Yes, I've seen that and even LSV had mildly good words for it but when I started writing the article I still had not seen any of those :)
Another good homage article with your own flair. I love the "What's worth playing" section with the average and No Money vs. Lottery...as as old school player I am often jumping between the classic sets and this may help sway what i play certain times. I disagree about Jtms though, I think he'll hit 70 before rotation out, then go to about 60 on a perm basis..could be wrong, but my opinion.
ahhh that actually makes sense when I include shape anew in there lol
I think he's referring to shape anew.
Thanks Shard, but I think he was referring to Vault Skirge. :-)
#skirge
I hardly find th eSkirge competitive against a 2CMC 2/3 such as Kor Skyfisher. Add to that the massive amount of Fume Spitters being played right now and removal such as Virulent Wound. Doesn't seem to me like a Skirge can survive more than a single turn, and it needs to get through at least two times before the LP, mana and card investment repays itself. I really can't see it as 2nd best. :-/
what?
if you read the review on Gitaxian Probe is positive. How you managed to think it was negative i dont think anyone will ever understand.
I've played probably 15-20 matches with essentially your list, something like:
-1 Rebuild
-4 duress
+3 Thoughtseize
+1 Gifts
+1 Scroll
(I was pretty sure my list ran 3x Gifts...but I'm not sure what else I cut. It was semi-close to this though)
And as much as I wanted to like the 6CC spells and Gifts, they're just terrible to draw until you're already winning, which is why I'd suggest trimming them to add some consistency. If you do keep the 6CC spell route, you should at the very least -1x Duress +1x Mana Vault so you can cast them.
And as far as LEDs -- the only matchups you want to Force are Belcher and Flash. For Belcher, I'm willing to lose if they draw the nuts, and Thoughtseizes are usually pretty brutal to them if I get to play. Flash it would definitely be nice to have some Forces and play control...but it's an uncommon enough matchup, I'm willing to just try and race it.
In my list, playing "Combo/Control" usually means playing a Bob and/or Library, then drawing a million cards and thoughtseizing them until they can't do anything. I do like Gush/Bond much more than Bob if you're splashing green already, I just don't think adding Force and Scrolls is the way to go.
Against Stax, I've been trying something (U/B/W)
MAIN:
2x Ancient Tomb, 1x Rebuild, 1x Hurkyls, 1x Chain of Vapor
SIDE:
2x Ancient Tomb, 1x Hurkyls, 4x Serenity
and...occasionally I don't lose. The problem I've found with boarding plans where you bring in 8+ cards is you still only have about 60-70% chance of winning the game post board, and because you lose pretty much 100% of game 1s, you're still unfavored for the matchup.
Anyway -- just a few suggestions from a guy who's played hundreds of matches with the deck :).
I find it interesting that you gave a negative review to the 2nd best card in the batch. Gitaxian Probe is obviously the #1 card from the cards you reviewed (and probably the whole set), and Vault Skirge is pretty clearly #2 (in the whole set the Elf is probably #2). I understand that you're reviewing in the context of STD pauper so you won't be slapping Rancor or Bonesplitter on it, but this guy is still one of the best 1-drops ever made at common. Just about every color can find a good use for him. If Infect is dominating the meta, some decks might move him to the sideboard but it's not like there's better one drops to replace him with.
Another thing nobody seems to be mentioning about blade splicer is that you can bounce your splicer with your jace and play him again, to build up a 3/3 each time. I can definitely see this coming up.
Also yeah, I'm pretty sure every constructed review is talking about this guy to some extent!
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Really good, keep it on guys.
U titan eats Obliterator (obviously)
G and B titans produce 4 permanents before being blocked by obliterator (G titan has trample so he does 5, not 6 damage to it)
W titan produce at least 2 permanents (not enought, i agree here).
Obliterator eats R titan (and other cards from R decks, that destroy creatures by damage)
"I bet you did not expect to see this card in a constructed review, right?" Perhaps you missed Lord Erman's take on the set? He specifically mentioned Splicer for basically the same reasons you did. a 3/3 token + a 1/1 body for 3 is not bad at all.
With respect I thing you need to test the list before making random comments of cut this and cut that Both Gifts and Bargain are central to this skill intensive build. LED builds goldfish faster but it is much less resilient and does not mulligan like the gush build. The LED version can only play in one mode - combo. Whilst the gush list has the option of explosive combo or playing combo control and I post board this deck has better game versus the best deck in the format.
She's a beauty, I had to oblige. ;-D
It seems like you should at the very least
-Yawg Bargain
-1 Duress
-Gifts
+3 Mystical Tutor
I'm a huge fan of the topdeck tutors in Gush lists, because they're cheap ways to keep your engine going, and I have had a lot of problems with Gush/Bond fizzling because I draw a bunch non-action spells. Mind's Desire and Bargain fill pretty much the same slot, and they're both cards that you almost never want to draw, so you really only need one. Mind's desire is the better one if you're adding MT. I'm not a huge fan of gifts, because it costs a ton of mana to Cast + Win with it.
Also -- I tested a pretty similar list (though only in TP), and I still think Gush is much better in an Infernal/Lion's Eye build rather than with Merchant Scroll/Force of Will, particularly now that most shop decks are running Metalworker, so you often have 2 Sphere-free turns to win. Your list needs a nut draw to get a Turn 2 win (you need fastbond, 2 lands, and gush in hand by turn 2, where fastbond is restricted and can only be found by restricted tutors), where an IT list you can win by turn 2 about 30-40% of the time goldfishing (all of your "oops I win" cards are redundant and unrestricted).
I can't help but disagree with your review of Phyrexian Obliterator. Yes, you need basically a mono black deck to use him, but my gosh, he is stone cold nuts in that deck. A turn 4 Obliterator on either the play or draw is a nightmare for an opponent if they don't have Go for the Throat or Dismember (or Jace until he rotates). You talked about the Titans, but this guy eats them for lunch! Aside from getting their ETB effects, who would want to attack with their Titan into this guy knowing they'd have to sac 5 permanents just to get rid of one card!?!? Seriously, how many permanents does one have in play with a turn 6 titan? 7-9, 10 at most? Sac'ing upwards of half your permanents does not sound very appealing. In the meantime, you've likely swung in for 5-10 damage which is nothing to sneeze at either.
so 1st. you would pick gush over other decks because its fun and new? you want a chance at glory for breaking the right build?
good point about the rapidly dropping uz prices too.
also we finished recording this about an hour b4 the classic de fired. last week the de fired the nite b4 we did the podcast, and lists were up on decks of the week page by the time we sat down to record.
You guys kept mentioning that there were no events this past week, yet there was a DE that fired on May 7th. Maybe you guys recorded this on May 7th, but you were quick to highlight the May 1st DE in your last podcast, which was only 6 days earlier.
Anyway, good stuff. For my sake, and others, I hope that the run up on Legacy prices are strictly due to GP Providence, but I am very, very skeptical. These prices have been going up for a good 3 months now, and longer on certain cards (*cough* FOW, LED *cough*). I think SCG Open Series has had a MUCH higher impact on the prices as people see the populatiry and prices rising in paper and either speculating or hoarding that digital prices do the same, which to some extent they have. Overall, I don't see anything that WOTC can do to help the prices other than releasing the sets for a week like they are doing for MVW and TSE.
Great cast guys. I almost enjoy this more than a deck-by-deck tournament breakdown. =) I agree with almost everything Owen said except for "this is a great time to get into Legacy." Unless you plan on testing for a paper event, this is the worst time to get into Legacy. Wait and see what June brings. So many people, myself included, are speculating that this increase is in part based on GP Providence, which is less than a couple weeks away. So, if anyone is thinking of picking up staples . . . maybe think again. The only exception may be some cards you get from NixTix drafters if and when the bots are saturated and stop buying.
Now is actually a better time to buy some Classic TSE/MVW staples. Oaths are going to hit an all time low, I feel. I think I may pick them up even though I haven't Force of Will yet, just because the prices seem to be bottoming out.
Lastly about prices, people are so hog wild over these nix tix events, remember that the UZ queues are still up and the prices are getting super low. Last week I picked up Goblin Welders at $17 and thought it was a steal, and now they've gone even lower! Don't forget to keep an eye on UZ block staples and snag them before the draft queues are gone.
Re: Masques. *sigh* I was sorely disappointed with the feeding frenzy and inflated prices of UD... I can't imagine what it will be like for MM. Port is going to probably start $30-50, depending on how crazy and desperate the pre-release buyers are. UD seemed to break the "pre-releases have higher prices" mould. Workshop started in the $50 range and slowly settled around the mid teens, whereas Metalworker began around the mid to high teens and has only gone up since then. I fear MM will follow that trend, but I'm not sure. No one seems to remember that Dredge gets its final piece with MM: Unmask. =D I expect that to be a $7 card.
Re: Gush. One thing you didn't explain is why someone should choose this over traditional Storm variants or other tier 1 decks, like Oath. What does a Gush deck offer that makes someone choose this over other options?
Thanks for stepping up Pete. You are the perfect guy for this job
Very on-point analysis! The minor mistakes have already been pointed out by previous posters, so all I have to say is this:
LOL at your assessment of Blind Zealot's body!!!
#wellspring: well, there's ferrovore but it doesn't come for free. Oxidda Daredevil could be a decent outlet as well as Rusted Slasher. None are too useful by themselves, but maybe there's a deck that could find a way to use all of them. I guess time will tell. :-)
#phybrid: Yes, Phybrid mana is awesome in every deck. I agree that the blue/colorless flyer is tempting for that price, but you really have to be desperate to play flying creatures. Even Hovermyr costs just 2 mana. And it has Vigilance too.
Thank you very much for the feedback! I promise I'll triple check every card for Part 2; it's almost ready and I have a whole week end to make it better. ;-)
And my bad English got in the way again. :-D
I totally missed the second trigger even though I re-read the card twice to be sure. Sorry for the mixup!