"This new addition to the list of rules explaining where abilities work says that if an object has an ability that says counters can't be placed on it, that ability functions while the object is entering the battlefield. "Placed" carries double duty, meaning adding counters while an object is on the battlefield and also having an object entering the battlefield with counters."
Melira does work with persist, for the same reason that Doubling Season also doubles planeswalker, persist, and +1 counters.
You know I hadn't really thought about it, but you are right, this is a very grieftastic set. Looking at the list of cards I want, half of them are earmaked for my meanest deck. This should have an interesting effect on the format.
In particular most of the praetors scare me. I might need to mix in some more targeted kill spells to keep them of the table.
1- You asked for other Phyrexian Unlife combos and one is Ad Nauseam. Basically once you have Phyrexian Unlife out, you can draw your entire deck with Ad Nauseam. Surely any Black tutor can get those for you but I also heard that there is a general who can get enchantments that cost 3 or less directly onto the battlefield. Hmm... And what then? You have your entire deck in hand now. Uhm, Repay in Kind? Dream Halls? High Tide + Palinchron and then Exsanguinate?
2- Melira doesn't work with persist tokens.
3- Lashwrithe is going to be awesome in Mono Black. A 10/10 (or bigger) for 4?! Yes please.
4- The Shrines are all very interesting and playable; especially the Blue, Red and the Black ones. And the White one will go in all W/x token decks.
5- I never tried a colorless Karn deck before, but I can assume that Unwinding Clock would be great in there.
Nice article - thank you for that. But to be honest I am kinda surprised about the major leak in your list of reasons that draw hate towards blue. One who has played commander for a while, knows that the absolute worst thing about blue is the ability of takeing extra turns. Cards like as Lighthouse Chronologist are just absolutely broken in commander not to speak of Time Stretch and co. Not only it lowers your chance of winning rapidly it also gives you very little playing time - since blue turns usually are not ended very quickly this combined makes it very boreing.
I want to mention a couple things about my deck (actually, it won only two tournaments). I had a fairly simple pauper goblin deck and had to modify it for extended, using my already owned cards. Unfortunately the goblin theme has basically disappeared, so the Caterwauling Bogarts don't make too much sense :)
Signal Pests and Goblin Wardrivers are obvious additions, but I don't have any. Skitter of Lizards is a good idea, but it's important to forget about the kicker and play it ofr 1 most of the time. But I don't think Lash Out is good, you rarely win the clash and let the opponent filter too. That is really bad, as the opponent probably gets more value when filtering. In this deck you will get a Goblin Arsonist instead of a Flayer Husk, but the opponent might get closer to the Pyroclasm, or avoid a card which costs more mana than what he has. Searing Blaze is a better choice. I wouldn't use Panic Spellbomb, as it sosts 2 to get back another card, so it is too slow in the beginning of the game.
Most of the sideboard suggestions are good, but I definitely wouldn't play the trap. Too much risk that it doesn't do anything. Shard Volley should be tested, but probably I wouldn't play it before the third land, which makes it too slow. But your final decklist seems to be strong, definitely stronger than the original.
Interesting read, although I despise counterbalance decks. I think you are looking at things the right way in the fact that you should find a decklist you wish to run and slowly piece by piece start to buy the staples you need.
If you aren't sure of which deck you might like, then there are several ways you can build your potential deck. I like to proxy stuff via paper first or some people like to use workstation.
One suggestion, I'd up the tops to 4. You really want to be playing that on Turn 1 imo.
Also, with Mental Misstep coming online, I wouldn't worry about Daze just yet.
Regarding your pick of the week, I'm not sure what your intentions for this spot in the article is, but I'd suggest finding a card that is used across several decklists, the tutor isn't widely played on a competitive scale. Maybe you could use this part of the article as a budget idea.
For instance, this week the card is Tundra, it is used in CB Decks, Thresh builds, etc, buying this card will give you the opportunity to play x number of decks.
I think when purchasing legacy staples you should first find the deck you want to play and then slowly build that, but I also think you should maximize your collection by buying cards that give you the best opportunity to be played in several decklists. Let's face it, we all get bored of playing the same ole deck day in and day out.
Good read, I like what you are doing with the progression of the article and decklist.
The problem with proofreading is that I don't have anyone at hand that can help me doing that. They either don't know Magic or English. :( Furthermore, I normally run on a very tight schedule of a day and a half between start and finish for an article and this doesn't help at all. Oh well, I guess I just have to try harder.
>I just can't help but think that you meant to put Immolating Souleater where you put Slash Panther, it seems much more explosive and threatening than just a 4/2 haste.
Actually no, I find Immolating Souleater slightly worse than Slash Panther, since haste is key for such an explosive creature. I put the Souleater in 11th or 12th position overall, though. It's right there with Mortis Dog and a deck that uses all three of them and Fling for massive amounts of damage. ;-)
#turn2infectcombo: the combo is scary, but the deck could be even scarier. It can win out of nowhere, anytime, even if the combo doesn't go off. The best thing with all this new Infect possibilities and the Phybrib mana is that they open up a lot of deckbuilding possibilities. Good times.
What you say makes sense actually. Using him as my general would mean "come and kill me, and kill me fast!". But I can still use him in my deck and get him out as a normal dude (seriously, 10 mana isn't an issue in Commander).
I think you are forgetting the flash part. Your opponent has to have an instant and have mana open to kill it. That's what really scares me, especially in 1v1 situations(not really applicable to online I know). I don't think it's an auto ban but it should be watched much like Sundering Titan. Playing him as commander is probably not as strong as you would think since ppl will hate you right away. But it's usable in with any splash of blue to really limit your opponent. It's like instant speed myojin + draw seven cards every turn.
Condemn-effects are incredibly important in my opinion. I use them whenever I can and never hesitate. There are those decks that mainly rely on their general to win (such as my mono Blue deck above), and they can easily be "shut down" with a simple Condemn (or a Hinder in our case).
Proteus Staff is in my opinion a wonderful card; and it's also a fair one. You send their Primeval Titan to the bottom and what do they get? Llanowar Elves or Birds of Paradise are all possibilities but sometimes it's Kozilek or even worse!
As my deck is slow (so was the mono White one too), I like to have some early blockers on the battlefield. Pilgrim's Eye therefore is a creature I like to play.
It gives me a land and blocks something in the meantime too. Basically the same reason I use Solemn Simulacrum as well(okay, it also gives me a card but the idea is the same).
I'm not saying Pilgrim's Eye is a killer card (because I know it isn't) but I simply like it.
I think the thing is it kills combo decks that rely heavily on card draw. Given wasteland, tectonic edge and Spreading Seas there are enough ways for blue to prevent Reliquary Tower from answering it and basically it answers combo/draw very nicely. Is it broken? Not sure yet, I am curious what people will do to make it broken. It seems almost a combo piece in itself designed to shut down opposing combo decks while doing something inexorable.
except emrakul could protect itself from dying. Not being able to be countered and having protection from colored spells,and being a time walk in addition to having annihilator 6 made emrakul a nasty creature. Something that makes you discard your hand and then play from the top deck until you kill it? not nearly as impressive or worrisome.
same thing was said about emrakul with 15 mana. 10 mana isn't hard to get to in commander. It has to be play tested first but my bet is on Jin getting banned soon.
Snuff Out is played in a wide range of disruptive B/X decks in the board as an additional answer to stuff like Goyf and KOtR. You need to tap out for Hymn/Vindicate/whatever, and you can play around non FOW counterspells and cast it cheaply. So basically Junk, Team America, and the odd deck running swamps.
I assume the price is so high for a common because of Pauper and Singleton/Casual players, and it was not widely released online.
Snuff Out sees some play in Legacy as a 'free' removal spell, while it's a niche card that sees little play so is Invigorate, so with similar availability similar pricing makes sense. Although even without Masques being released Online I wouldn't expect this parity to last once we have access to NPH; as Dismember threatens to fill a very similar role as Snuff Out, while on the other hand Glistner Elf will increase the viability of a Berserk based Infect deck in Legacy.
For the BYOS I stated the card uses the rarity of that set regardless of MTGO rarity (for example FoW). Normally we play Extended so theres no difference between paper and online.
Agreed. But Seas does not chump block vs Akroma etal which while it might seem a bad idea if you have to get hit again in a turn is often the difference between an evacuation in time and dead.
Ah, good to know. Sounds like a bug report.
I just sac'ed a Kitchen Finks to Bloodthrone Vampire on the beta server (while Melira is out) and the Finks came back as a 2/1.
Just saying.
LE
Rule 112.6h
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/1...
"This new addition to the list of rules explaining where abilities work says that if an object has an ability that says counters can't be placed on it, that ability functions while the object is entering the battlefield. "Placed" carries double duty, meaning adding counters while an object is on the battlefield and also having an object entering the battlefield with counters."
Melira does work with persist, for the same reason that Doubling Season also doubles planeswalker, persist, and +1 counters.
You know I hadn't really thought about it, but you are right, this is a very grieftastic set. Looking at the list of cards I want, half of them are earmaked for my meanest deck. This should have an interesting effect on the format.
In particular most of the praetors scare me. I might need to mix in some more targeted kill spells to keep them of the table.
Good review. A few things:
1- You asked for other Phyrexian Unlife combos and one is Ad Nauseam. Basically once you have Phyrexian Unlife out, you can draw your entire deck with Ad Nauseam. Surely any Black tutor can get those for you but I also heard that there is a general who can get enchantments that cost 3 or less directly onto the battlefield. Hmm... And what then? You have your entire deck in hand now. Uhm, Repay in Kind? Dream Halls? High Tide + Palinchron and then Exsanguinate?
2- Melira doesn't work with persist tokens.
3- Lashwrithe is going to be awesome in Mono Black. A 10/10 (or bigger) for 4?! Yes please.
4- The Shrines are all very interesting and playable; especially the Blue, Red and the Black ones. And the White one will go in all W/x token decks.
5- I never tried a colorless Karn deck before, but I can assume that Unwinding Clock would be great in there.
Just some thoughts.
LE
Nice article - thank you for that. But to be honest I am kinda surprised about the major leak in your list of reasons that draw hate towards blue. One who has played commander for a while, knows that the absolute worst thing about blue is the ability of takeing extra turns. Cards like as Lighthouse Chronologist are just absolutely broken in commander not to speak of Time Stretch and co. Not only it lowers your chance of winning rapidly it also gives you very little playing time - since blue turns usually are not ended very quickly this combined makes it very boreing.
Hi,
You might want to trade your rain forests for catacombs now that you are running black.
I want to mention a couple things about my deck (actually, it won only two tournaments). I had a fairly simple pauper goblin deck and had to modify it for extended, using my already owned cards. Unfortunately the goblin theme has basically disappeared, so the Caterwauling Bogarts don't make too much sense :)
Signal Pests and Goblin Wardrivers are obvious additions, but I don't have any. Skitter of Lizards is a good idea, but it's important to forget about the kicker and play it ofr 1 most of the time. But I don't think Lash Out is good, you rarely win the clash and let the opponent filter too. That is really bad, as the opponent probably gets more value when filtering. In this deck you will get a Goblin Arsonist instead of a Flayer Husk, but the opponent might get closer to the Pyroclasm, or avoid a card which costs more mana than what he has. Searing Blaze is a better choice. I wouldn't use Panic Spellbomb, as it sosts 2 to get back another card, so it is too slow in the beginning of the game.
Most of the sideboard suggestions are good, but I definitely wouldn't play the trap. Too much risk that it doesn't do anything. Shard Volley should be tested, but probably I wouldn't play it before the third land, which makes it too slow. But your final decklist seems to be strong, definitely stronger than the original.
Interesting read, although I despise counterbalance decks. I think you are looking at things the right way in the fact that you should find a decklist you wish to run and slowly piece by piece start to buy the staples you need.
If you aren't sure of which deck you might like, then there are several ways you can build your potential deck. I like to proxy stuff via paper first or some people like to use workstation.
One suggestion, I'd up the tops to 4. You really want to be playing that on Turn 1 imo.
Also, with Mental Misstep coming online, I wouldn't worry about Daze just yet.
Regarding your pick of the week, I'm not sure what your intentions for this spot in the article is, but I'd suggest finding a card that is used across several decklists, the tutor isn't widely played on a competitive scale. Maybe you could use this part of the article as a budget idea.
For instance, this week the card is Tundra, it is used in CB Decks, Thresh builds, etc, buying this card will give you the opportunity to play x number of decks.
I think when purchasing legacy staples you should first find the deck you want to play and then slowly build that, but I also think you should maximize your collection by buying cards that give you the best opportunity to be played in several decklists. Let's face it, we all get bored of playing the same ole deck day in and day out.
Good read, I like what you are doing with the progression of the article and decklist.
The problem with proofreading is that I don't have anyone at hand that can help me doing that. They either don't know Magic or English. :( Furthermore, I normally run on a very tight schedule of a day and a half between start and finish for an article and this doesn't help at all. Oh well, I guess I just have to try harder.
Hey Niabock, really I think MBC need a serious cut, the life gain probably is the best option.
Thanks for hosting, check the problems and make regular alt formats. :)
Sorry with my bad english :(
>I just can't help but think that you meant to put Immolating Souleater where you put Slash Panther, it seems much more explosive and threatening than just a 4/2 haste.
Actually no, I find Immolating Souleater slightly worse than Slash Panther, since haste is key for such an explosive creature. I put the Souleater in 11th or 12th position overall, though. It's right there with Mortis Dog and a deck that uses all three of them and Fling for massive amounts of damage. ;-)
#turn2infectcombo: the combo is scary, but the deck could be even scarier. It can win out of nowhere, anytime, even if the combo doesn't go off. The best thing with all this new Infect possibilities and the Phybrib mana is that they open up a lot of deckbuilding possibilities. Good times.
Thanks for the feedback!
What you say makes sense actually. Using him as my general would mean "come and kill me, and kill me fast!". But I can still use him in my deck and get him out as a normal dude (seriously, 10 mana isn't an issue in Commander).
Oh and he has flash!
LE
I think you are forgetting the flash part. Your opponent has to have an instant and have mana open to kill it. That's what really scares me, especially in 1v1 situations(not really applicable to online I know). I don't think it's an auto ban but it should be watched much like Sundering Titan. Playing him as commander is probably not as strong as you would think since ppl will hate you right away. But it's usable in with any splash of blue to really limit your opponent. It's like instant speed myojin + draw seven cards every turn.
Because Kamigawa Islands don't look "enough fareastern" to me. As a matter of fact they don't look fareastern at all! The one I use is perfect.
LE
Condemn-effects are incredibly important in my opinion. I use them whenever I can and never hesitate. There are those decks that mainly rely on their general to win (such as my mono Blue deck above), and they can easily be "shut down" with a simple Condemn (or a Hinder in our case).
Proteus Staff is in my opinion a wonderful card; and it's also a fair one. You send their Primeval Titan to the bottom and what do they get? Llanowar Elves or Birds of Paradise are all possibilities but sometimes it's Kozilek or even worse!
LE
As my deck is slow (so was the mono White one too), I like to have some early blockers on the battlefield. Pilgrim's Eye therefore is a creature I like to play.
It gives me a land and blocks something in the meantime too. Basically the same reason I use Solemn Simulacrum as well(okay, it also gives me a card but the idea is the same).
I'm not saying Pilgrim's Eye is a killer card (because I know it isn't) but I simply like it.
LE
I think the thing is it kills combo decks that rely heavily on card draw. Given wasteland, tectonic edge and Spreading Seas there are enough ways for blue to prevent Reliquary Tower from answering it and basically it answers combo/draw very nicely. Is it broken? Not sure yet, I am curious what people will do to make it broken. It seems almost a combo piece in itself designed to shut down opposing combo decks while doing something inexorable.
except emrakul could protect itself from dying. Not being able to be countered and having protection from colored spells,and being a time walk in addition to having annihilator 6 made emrakul a nasty creature. Something that makes you discard your hand and then play from the top deck until you kill it? not nearly as impressive or worrisome.
Why not just play with Kamigawan Islands if you wanted the islands to match up with Soramaro?
same thing was said about emrakul with 15 mana. 10 mana isn't hard to get to in commander. It has to be play tested first but my bet is on Jin getting banned soon.
Snuff Out is played in a wide range of disruptive B/X decks in the board as an additional answer to stuff like Goyf and KOtR. You need to tap out for Hymn/Vindicate/whatever, and you can play around non FOW counterspells and cast it cheaply. So basically Junk, Team America, and the odd deck running swamps.
I assume the price is so high for a common because of Pauper and Singleton/Casual players, and it was not widely released online.
Snuff Out sees some play in Legacy as a 'free' removal spell, while it's a niche card that sees little play so is Invigorate, so with similar availability similar pricing makes sense. Although even without Masques being released Online I wouldn't expect this parity to last once we have access to NPH; as Dismember threatens to fill a very similar role as Snuff Out, while on the other hand Glistner Elf will increase the viability of a Berserk based Infect deck in Legacy.
For the BYOS I stated the card uses the rarity of that set regardless of MTGO rarity (for example FoW). Normally we play Extended so theres no difference between paper and online.
Agreed. But Seas does not chump block vs Akroma etal which while it might seem a bad idea if you have to get hit again in a turn is often the difference between an evacuation in time and dead.