Naoto I have to respectfully disagree with you on the cavern of souls. It has been quite excellent for me against blue based decks so far in my testing. Quite often being able to force through that key Lodestone or shapeshifter can be the difference in a game, that keeps the opponent buried. I have found multiple purposes off of one cavern as well, in using the carvern on a golem to reset it with my own wasteland / crucible in later game to get through a construct "Triskilion" to finish my oppoenet off. It also gives me coloured mana for casting cards like metamorph (small but damage adds up in Stax). Obvioulsy not great against non blue decks, but I would say the meta is more blue based then anything else at the moment. Just my thoughts.
Tibalt is really very decent in Burning Vengeance because of his first ability. His second ability can be a killer if you attrition your opponent down far enough. Another one that is good in that UR deck, surprisingly is Chandra. Being able to double cast a spell can really be awesome when your spells do such nasty things and there are still plenty of 1 toughness critters out there.
In addition to Falkenrath's dominance in Zombies it has been beating down heavily in Block with its friend the Huntmaster of the Fells. I've been trying to translate this team up into standard with mixed results. There is no doubt that Frites + those guys is good in casual but against top tier Zombies and Delver it has less good options and thats before sideboarding.
Probably make it so anyone other than the top 2 are eligible to win the extra Ajani Vengeant, I don't want to punish 3rd/4rth out of not being able to win it just for doing well
These are excellent vids. I used to have trouble double queuing events as well. I eventually set an old laptop up next to my desktop, and just ran a client on each computer. It really helped me in terms of performance and play speed. It felt like less hassle toggling between events, and it was nice to be able to look at each event at relatively the same time. Maybe something worth trying if the resources are available to you.
I just got the cards to donate to the Standard event this Friday the 21st of September. I was looking for Standard cards that would be cool but it worked out better just grabbing cool cards. (These prizes are in addition to the normal store credit given out for the event)
The White Weenie deck you feature under the legacy deck is called Death and Taxes. The deck is an updated version of the Exiler deck from the MTGO store.
I probably underestimated my opponent's deck at that point. I think I felt that it would be fine to sit for a perhaps 4 turns but Shardless Agent would be the main reason why that thinking is flawed.
He's definitely cool and in casual/alternative formats he should be a lot of fun. I just think he's too vulnerable at that casting cost without immediately impacting the board. A lot is demanded of 4 drops these days in ye olde Wizard's formats.
It amuses me to be held up as an example of the Sligh archetype, although it is true I did dabble with it a couple of times back in the day. A kiln fiend or spitfire with a couple of bolt effects and a fireblast in hand was mathematically lethal pretty much the first time it attacked. (+4 +3 +3 from the spells, +9 from three triggerings of the ability, starting strength 1.)
Good counters to the deck included martyr proc style builds or soul sisters, with Auriok Champion a particularly thorny problem. Silver Knight or Paladin en-vec could blunt your assault massively, so having an answer or two to pro red an to lifegain was essentially a presideboard against the deck's weak points. It's worth noting the antilifegain card also shut down the popular punishing grove combo.
I believe you underestimated a little Corpsejack Menace. It doubles all the creatures who enter with counters on them. After this guy, your Triskelion becomes just nuts. And the examples are plenty (Phantom creatures, Modular creatures, Graft creatures, Spikes, and so on). As far as those strategies are concerned, it's a walking Doubling Season, which costs less and give you a 4/4 body as a bonus (which also means you just don't lose it to a Gut Shot), thus eliminating that annoying feeling of dropping a 5cc card that doesn't impact the board.
Man, I can't wait to make a Tribal overview of RTR! So many lesser tribes are getting a boost here.
Human Zoo could run the Snapcaster and Tribal Flames for insane reach, and Bobs too as you point out. The problem is lack of a two-power 1-drop, other than Elite Vanguard. Flailing Soldier or Branded Brawler? Not exciting choices. Lavamancer and Vanguard is ok as your 1-drops, then Snappie, Bob, KotR, maybe a hatebear or two, and it's a base. If Wasteland continues to be scarce, that might work. But Domain Zoo in Modern and old extended never had to contend with Wasteland, which would crush it.
I think hounds has some potential in a Sligh archetype, bc u can start the list with 4x Jackal Pup, Wild Dogs, and Isamaru (though the dogs make fetches dangerous). I think it's probably just worse than Cats though, I want to see hounds playing a UGW madness type with mongrels and the white hound two-drop that is a discard outlet.
On Ambusher, I realize you might find that occasionally you aren't the beatdown, or you are racing, and it could be handy. I just don't know about spending 4 slots on something that doesn't fit the primary plan of attack. I run Blistering Firecat in mine which I think fits the plan better, but good minds can disagree.
BTW if anybody has comments on the style or presentation of my video, let me know. I have already recorded part 2, but I can take any feedback into account when I do part 3, which is tentatively planned to cover ramp decks.
I just knew that Rex's video would generate a huge reply on your (and possibly AJ's) part. Well, was counting on it actually! (Less so with Paul Sligh and Jay Schneider). Also because I totally agree with you about Ambusher, it's a freaking 2/3 Flash Reach for 0 in Tribal. I mean, it's Tribal, you obviously will get attacked by creatures at some point in 95% of your matches. Probably in Legacy proper wouldn't be the right choice, but in Tribal definitely is. Just for taking out Goblin Guides would be justified.
What tribe do you think would be able to do as well within a Sligh template as Cat? I suggested Human in the article, thinking of decks with Knight of the Reliquary and other fast efficient beaters in Naya colors, like Steward of Valeron or even Blood Knight (so probably Knight as well, but Human has Grim Lavamancer and allow you to complement the strategy splashing for stuff like Dark Confidant or Snapcaster Mage, which are very relevant in a deck that seeks for fast aggression, early card advantage, and runs a lot of powerful cheap instants/sorceries to recycle asap).
I think you did something like that with those Wizards, although the burn part is largely replaced with control elements there (how I like that singleton Stifle!).
A thing Rex didn't mention for the decks in this family is also the manabase, which reflects the spirit of the deck by being very short and super-efficient through a great number of fetch lands (which stemmed from Kird Ape/then Wild Nacatl/then Steppe Lynx needs, and is one of the reasons Tarmo was so good in there).
And while RDW is basically the son of this archetype going for a more burn-based battleplan (AJ's deck was more in that generation indeed), another direct descendant I'm immediately reminded of is Boros Deck Wins. Remember that? With Goblin Legionnaire, Grim Lavamancer, Savannah Lions, at some point Isamaru, Hound of Konda, and Lightning Helix, Firebolt, Char, and Molten Rain as a burn suite. Plus 4 copies of Umezawa's Jitte, during its apex. Good times.
Anyhow to address the questions on card selection regarding my cats deck.
I'll be the first to admit I love the zoo archetype and cats fits it very well.
In-fact I believe that the zoo archetype embodies the tribal theme more so then any other deck.
Its a fair deck, that does fair things, and does not try to break the game wide open in any surprising fashion.
It just punishes any sub optimal draws with its brutal consistency.
The ambusher is actually way more amazing then though of at first glace.
Either i end up having my opponent thinking i must have burn in hand and that the losing nothing for trying to attack me only to have 1 or 2 ambushers to ruin their day.
Or that just the threat of them might keep my opponent from attacking, which sometimes buys me the valuable time and life points i might have otherwise needed. In short the amusher just messes with the game state in multiple ways that exceed them just being a 2/3 for 3 mana.
Then comes the mid-range decks which is actually part of the reason for the rancor/berserk package. (however rancor preventing chump blocks was certainly wonderful!)
The combination of these cards would allow me to trade my threats for theirs or to be able to break through their walls (wall-drazi became a deck about then)
I will however admit that Berserk was more used as a finisher unless absolutely necessary.
I admit i could have added more burn to the deck however at that point I had just ran Burn Elementals (different then Aj's version)to the point that people were just sick of seeing red.
Infact burn was a very common archetype in multiple formats at that point and overall I did not want to just lose to the people who finally figured out to use anti red cards.
Always enjoy reading and watching the videos, though I have to say I think you should have taken a mulligan in G3 R3. If you don't draw a land in the first two turns, you were just completely dead. It was a bit fortunate to draw the Island. It worked out, but I think it would be correct to take 6 cards there.
Not sure how much Mana Drain gets used these days in classic events but we have one in the prize pool of our Heirloom Classic event on the 16th if people in the classic community want to participate and try to win it. You can find the event on Gatherling.com as well as look up the decks in the metagame there. Also 10 tix worth of store credit up to win in the event and a few other things. Free to enter as always and building deck usually costs not much at all, maybe 2-3 tix if you dont have any of the cards already.
Naoto I have to respectfully disagree with you on the cavern of souls. It has been quite excellent for me against blue based decks so far in my testing. Quite often being able to force through that key Lodestone or shapeshifter can be the difference in a game, that keeps the opponent buried. I have found multiple purposes off of one cavern as well, in using the carvern on a golem to reset it with my own wasteland / crucible in later game to get through a construct "Triskilion" to finish my oppoenet off. It also gives me coloured mana for casting cards like metamorph (small but damage adds up in Stax). Obvioulsy not great against non blue decks, but I would say the meta is more blue based then anything else at the moment. Just my thoughts.
Welcome, back slugger! Next time say hi when you're just lurkin' online so I know its not a ghost.
Tibalt is really very decent in Burning Vengeance because of his first ability. His second ability can be a killer if you attrition your opponent down far enough. Another one that is good in that UR deck, surprisingly is Chandra. Being able to double cast a spell can really be awesome when your spells do such nasty things and there are still plenty of 1 toughness critters out there.
In addition to Falkenrath's dominance in Zombies it has been beating down heavily in Block with its friend the Huntmaster of the Fells. I've been trying to translate this team up into standard with mixed results. There is no doubt that Frites + those guys is good in casual but against top tier Zombies and Delver it has less good options and thats before sideboarding.
Probably make it so anyone other than the top 2 are eligible to win the extra Ajani Vengeant, I don't want to punish 3rd/4rth out of not being able to win it just for doing well
These are excellent vids. I used to have trouble double queuing events as well. I eventually set an old laptop up next to my desktop, and just ran a client on each computer. It really helped me in terms of performance and play speed. It felt like less hassle toggling between events, and it was nice to be able to look at each event at relatively the same time. Maybe something worth trying if the resources are available to you.
I just got the cards to donate to the Standard event this Friday the 21st of September. I was looking for Standard cards that would be cool but it worked out better just grabbing cool cards. (These prizes are in addition to the normal store credit given out for the event)
1st place will win an Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2nd place will win an Ajani Vengeant
the Door prize will receive an Ajani Vengeant
Good luck guys
The White Weenie deck you feature under the legacy deck is called Death and Taxes. The deck is an updated version of the Exiler deck from the MTGO store.
I probably underestimated my opponent's deck at that point. I think I felt that it would be fine to sit for a perhaps 4 turns but Shardless Agent would be the main reason why that thinking is flawed.
Pretty much: I was concerned about a consistent turn 3 win option.
The irony is you and I, worked on the hellamental deck as a method of protesting its ubiquity and easy win status.
He's definitely cool and in casual/alternative formats he should be a lot of fun. I just think he's too vulnerable at that casting cost without immediately impacting the board. A lot is demanded of 4 drops these days in ye olde Wizard's formats.
It amuses me to be held up as an example of the Sligh archetype, although it is true I did dabble with it a couple of times back in the day. A kiln fiend or spitfire with a couple of bolt effects and a fireblast in hand was mathematically lethal pretty much the first time it attacked. (+4 +3 +3 from the spells, +9 from three triggerings of the ability, starting strength 1.)
Good counters to the deck included martyr proc style builds or soul sisters, with Auriok Champion a particularly thorny problem. Silver Knight or Paladin en-vec could blunt your assault massively, so having an answer or two to pro red an to lifegain was essentially a presideboard against the deck's weak points. It's worth noting the antilifegain card also shut down the popular punishing grove combo.
I believe you underestimated a little Corpsejack Menace. It doubles all the creatures who enter with counters on them. After this guy, your Triskelion becomes just nuts. And the examples are plenty (Phantom creatures, Modular creatures, Graft creatures, Spikes, and so on). As far as those strategies are concerned, it's a walking Doubling Season, which costs less and give you a 4/4 body as a bonus (which also means you just don't lose it to a Gut Shot), thus eliminating that annoying feeling of dropping a 5cc card that doesn't impact the board.
Man, I can't wait to make a Tribal overview of RTR! So many lesser tribes are getting a boost here.
Humans is definitely another great tribe for sligh. I would likely run it with
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Grim lavamancer (they really do devalue after the first drawn)
2-4 Mayor of Avabrook
some mix of (mix and match as your play style prefers)
0-4 Benevolent Bodyguard
2-4 Mother of Runes
0-2 Sylvan Safekeeper
0-4 Snapcaster Mage
And to mention the Tarmo part he's actually second best now days to Scavenging Ooze which could easily be a 4 of in any sligh style tribal deck.
Other Tribes i could see in this archetype are Vampires,Zombies,Merfolk and Kithkin. there is likely more but that is off the top of my head.
as for the Boros decks i cant say i ever faced many so cant really comment much on them. (mainly because i wasnt playing MTGO at that point)
Human Zoo could run the Snapcaster and Tribal Flames for insane reach, and Bobs too as you point out. The problem is lack of a two-power 1-drop, other than Elite Vanguard. Flailing Soldier or Branded Brawler? Not exciting choices. Lavamancer and Vanguard is ok as your 1-drops, then Snappie, Bob, KotR, maybe a hatebear or two, and it's a base. If Wasteland continues to be scarce, that might work. But Domain Zoo in Modern and old extended never had to contend with Wasteland, which would crush it.
man i would love to see tempest brought back. get me some lotus petals for less than 10 bucks a pop would be nice.
I think hounds has some potential in a Sligh archetype, bc u can start the list with 4x Jackal Pup, Wild Dogs, and Isamaru (though the dogs make fetches dangerous). I think it's probably just worse than Cats though, I want to see hounds playing a UGW madness type with mongrels and the white hound two-drop that is a discard outlet.
On Ambusher, I realize you might find that occasionally you aren't the beatdown, or you are racing, and it could be handy. I just don't know about spending 4 slots on something that doesn't fit the primary plan of attack. I run Blistering Firecat in mine which I think fits the plan better, but good minds can disagree.
BTW if anybody has comments on the style or presentation of my video, let me know. I have already recorded part 2, but I can take any feedback into account when I do part 3, which is tentatively planned to cover ramp decks.
I just knew that Rex's video would generate a huge reply on your (and possibly AJ's) part. Well, was counting on it actually! (Less so with Paul Sligh and Jay Schneider). Also because I totally agree with you about Ambusher, it's a freaking 2/3 Flash Reach for 0 in Tribal. I mean, it's Tribal, you obviously will get attacked by creatures at some point in 95% of your matches. Probably in Legacy proper wouldn't be the right choice, but in Tribal definitely is. Just for taking out Goblin Guides would be justified.
What tribe do you think would be able to do as well within a Sligh template as Cat? I suggested Human in the article, thinking of decks with Knight of the Reliquary and other fast efficient beaters in Naya colors, like Steward of Valeron or even Blood Knight (so probably Knight as well, but Human has Grim Lavamancer and allow you to complement the strategy splashing for stuff like Dark Confidant or Snapcaster Mage, which are very relevant in a deck that seeks for fast aggression, early card advantage, and runs a lot of powerful cheap instants/sorceries to recycle asap).
I think you did something like that with those Wizards, although the burn part is largely replaced with control elements there (how I like that singleton Stifle!).
A thing Rex didn't mention for the decks in this family is also the manabase, which reflects the spirit of the deck by being very short and super-efficient through a great number of fetch lands (which stemmed from Kird Ape/then Wild Nacatl/then Steppe Lynx needs, and is one of the reasons Tarmo was so good in there).
And while RDW is basically the son of this archetype going for a more burn-based battleplan (AJ's deck was more in that generation indeed), another direct descendant I'm immediately reminded of is Boros Deck Wins. Remember that? With Goblin Legionnaire, Grim Lavamancer, Savannah Lions, at some point Isamaru, Hound of Konda, and Lightning Helix, Firebolt, Char, and Molten Rain as a burn suite. Plus 4 copies of Umezawa's Jitte, during its apex. Good times.
First off congrats Vantar!
And awesome Video Rex.
Anyhow to address the questions on card selection regarding my cats deck.
I'll be the first to admit I love the zoo archetype and cats fits it very well.
In-fact I believe that the zoo archetype embodies the tribal theme more so then any other deck.
Its a fair deck, that does fair things, and does not try to break the game wide open in any surprising fashion.
It just punishes any sub optimal draws with its brutal consistency.
The ambusher is actually way more amazing then though of at first glace.
Either i end up having my opponent thinking i must have burn in hand and that the losing nothing for trying to attack me only to have 1 or 2 ambushers to ruin their day.
Or that just the threat of them might keep my opponent from attacking, which sometimes buys me the valuable time and life points i might have otherwise needed. In short the amusher just messes with the game state in multiple ways that exceed them just being a 2/3 for 3 mana.
Then comes the mid-range decks which is actually part of the reason for the rancor/berserk package. (however rancor preventing chump blocks was certainly wonderful!)
The combination of these cards would allow me to trade my threats for theirs or to be able to break through their walls (wall-drazi became a deck about then)
I will however admit that Berserk was more used as a finisher unless absolutely necessary.
I admit i could have added more burn to the deck however at that point I had just ran Burn Elementals (different then Aj's version)to the point that people were just sick of seeing red.
Infact burn was a very common archetype in multiple formats at that point and overall I did not want to just lose to the people who finally figured out to use anti red cards.
Not infected no but Id still wash it with soap and perhaps some hydrogen peroxide.
The way the game was meant to be played!
pew pew
Always enjoy reading and watching the videos, though I have to say I think you should have taken a mulligan in G3 R3. If you don't draw a land in the first two turns, you were just completely dead. It was a bit fortunate to draw the Island. It worked out, but I think it would be correct to take 6 cards there.
Not sure how much Mana Drain gets used these days in classic events but we have one in the prize pool of our Heirloom Classic event on the 16th if people in the classic community want to participate and try to win it. You can find the event on Gatherling.com as well as look up the decks in the metagame there. Also 10 tix worth of store credit up to win in the event and a few other things. Free to enter as always and building deck usually costs not much at all, maybe 2-3 tix if you dont have any of the cards already.
Yeah I felt that way for a while but Ive adapted to it. It still feels unfair but so are a lot of cards and mechanics.
You're thinking of Disciple of Bolas instead of Augur of Bolas.
Also, there are 4 Gemstone Mines in the deck.