it's worth pointing out that times like this really show the wisdom and importance of the redemption policy to the trust that people can have in MTGO. While it doesn't do anything to give comfort to people with large modern/legacy/classic collections, at least redemption puts a floor on how low the prices of standard legal cards can go. Your recent cards ultimately can be turned into physical objects with more durable value no matter how badly they screw up the online product, and even if you don't do it yourself, other people doing it will underpin the prices of your cards. It's a pretty powerful feature of MTGO and worth bearing in mind at times like this.
Great cast as always. Great to hear from Josh too. I don't believe the sky has fallen with MTGO but I do believe this is the worst it has been in 6 years. I am HOPING though not highly that when V4 finally comes as the only way to log in, I will still be able to with the machines I have. I suspect I might not based on what happened last time, for a few years. So I am not surprised people are selling off now the cards with the most volatile prices. (Standard relevant ones mainly.)
In fact if I realized how bad it would get I would have done that a few months ago... As it is I figure we are stuck in the shelter until the storm passes...card games anyone??
I am glad the arrogance of the Ivory Tower has finally been pierced by the barbs of an angry populace even if it took the nobility (pros ranting) to do it. I am glad they who dwell in said tower are finally copping to the problems at hand. I am hopeful something positive will come of it.
Yeah, it's been my experience that Blood Moon is awesome against Oath, provided you don't have any creatures on board, because it mana-screws them and shuts off Orchard, but Magus is very mediocre, especially since they run 4 Lotus Petals.
Pros: you're funny. Cons: I think you give an inconsistent standard from card to card as to what counts as a modern-day analogue, but I guess I shouldn't take it too seriously. Nitpick: unless I'm mistaken, Singing Tree stops non-fliers as well. Head-scratcher: Goblin Guide is only a "moderate upgrade" over Hurr Jackal? Guide has brought tournament wins to RDW that could never have happened without it. In sum: fun read, thanks!
Feel free to use it, adapt it, or ignore it entirely. As I said earlier, it would also be interesting to see an unspoiled take on how the deck can be adapted to better fit the meta.
Yeah, that build was soft to Oath, primarily because I overestimated the value of Magus of the Moon in the Oath matchup.
For the record, though, in Game 1 you score wins off win cons alternative to Oath (as happened in my videos with Gilded Drake-Blightsteel), but I think for Games 2 and 3 the plan should just be to blow up the Oath with hasty Trygon or... sadly... Thunderscape Battlemage, in addition to the Cage plan. Also, if you are in a situation where you're otherwise confident but expect the possibility of Dragon's Breath, you can plop an Ooze onto the table and plan to eat it when it's in the yard before its trigger resolves. Not ideal, but certainly possible.
My general strategy, though, is just to lose when my opponents draw insane hands. I can cope with that.
Did you guys see my deck? I had 4 Memory Jar's to win the foil snapcaster!!! Also my deck was not stax - I mean it had 4 Kuldotha Forgemaster even... Now do I get any credit Zach?
It was actually Terminus, not Balance, although they pretty much had the same effect at that point. Also, I think Bluediamonds and Enderfall are also running it (Balance, that is), at least in the board. As for why Balance is underplayed, I'd say it's because it doesn't really fit into a lot of decks: Stax, Affinity, and Dredge obviously aren't going to play it and neither are Fish/Bears decks, so unless you are running Oath with white in it, there really isn't an obvious place for it.
As for Vintage players, it was briefly mentioned on the post about MTGO on the Drain and was generally met with a shrug, far as I can tell. Most Vintage players are going to be paying attention to paper Magic and aren't really going to care about what happens online until Vintage actually happens.
I agree that the whole thing is a fiasco, especially given all the time they've had to work on getting it right. I didn't talk about it too much in my column, because I mostly wanted to focus on Magic, but the most annoying thing about it is that there is no explanation of what went wrong, what they are needing to fix, what the timetable is before sanctioned events are back online. I don't expect them to detail every little thing, but to just out of the blue say, "Hey guys, we're taking everything down! We'll let you know more at the end of the year!" is just asinine.
That being said, there's at least a 50% chance your opponent hits Blightsteel and Dragon Breath has kind of fallen out of favor in a lot of builds, so I think the Image and Drake aren't exactly meaningless.
With the 'quick Oath' line, I suppose I was speaking more the point that if Oath comes out Turn 1 or 2 in Game 1, you don't have any reliable options to get out of it, whereas later in the game, you at least have a chance.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I plan on giving more in-depth answers to these questions in my next article, but for now I will give the short versions.
PW: There was one big reason for not including Noble Hierarch in the list. I'm a blue deck that splashes green and white, and my manabase reflects that. Wasteland is a 4-of in most Classic lists. For that reason, I thought it important to have access to basics. As a result, I have less room for duals and wastelands of my own. To play a set of noble hierarchs, I would need to cut basics for more Tropical Islands. When building the deck, I thought making myself vulnerable to wasteland was going to be a big no-no.
In my experience, the stax matchup is always lopsided one way or the other. It's all about the opening hands. Sneaking in a turn 1 Delver under the taxing effects really puts pressure on them to get some offense going of their own. If I can Force their first taxing effect, a lot of times it buys me enough time to resolve a Pridemage or Trygon. On the flipside, their opening hand can also leave me in a near-impossible to win situation.
Dangerlinto: I completely agree. Returning a land with Daze is not optimal (far from it actually) in the Stax matchup. Please also remember that this is a deck that I threw together to introduce myself to the format and is far from a finished product. My next article will talk about changes I would make now that I have a bit of experience.
For the record, that is not a current photo of me, it's just the coolest one!
Totally agree. Also Daze is a total dud (almost all the time) vs Spheres. This is not a deck that you want to be putting lands BACK in your hand against - nor is it useful to save your lands vs wasteland because that interaction doesn't happen vs shops.
It's usually not worth the space in your deck. You might want to look into a couple of cards that have more gas all around. Apart from PW excellent advice, you could try Goyf if you want more aggro or Nature's Claim if you want more card for card trade-off.
it's not just vulnerable to a Quick Oath, it's vulnerable to Oath, period. First of all, neither drake nor image helps when the opponent get dragon's breath, and while Drake on Emrakul is great if you can land it if Griselbrand comes out you are dead - you are unlikely to get anything done once you give oath 7-14 more cards - you probably aren't getting a chance to cast Image or Drake.
Since this deck can't protect it cages anyway, you'd probably just rather not let oath activate altogether - which means either make yourself untargetable, or destroy oath - if that's what you really want to try to do with this deck.
I like your gross beard. I used to have a gross beard like that, too. It would be even grosser if they were to touch each other and get tangled up.
Thanks for the article, and for your concise and well-written analysis of the dominant archetypes. As for your deck, I actually find it really interesting. It eschews the power and ramp of Noble Hierarch in the interest of playing additional reactive cards, including free countermagic and 4x STP. The 4x Jace is also interesting and likely serves as your long-term win goal vs. Oath. I would suspect that not running the Hierarch makes it very difficult for you to beat through Sphere- and tax-effects in the Stax matchups, essentially giving you one fewer option to power out a Trygon, and one fewer permanent to tap to a Tangle Wire. With that said, I appreciate the subtle roguish reworking of the Bant list, and I'd be curious to hear what your experiences against Stax builds were.
much appreciated, if the fellows will have me I'm looking to be a more customary part of the podcast.
Sushi
get youtube views
it's worth pointing out that times like this really show the wisdom and importance of the redemption policy to the trust that people can have in MTGO. While it doesn't do anything to give comfort to people with large modern/legacy/classic collections, at least redemption puts a floor on how low the prices of standard legal cards can go. Your recent cards ultimately can be turned into physical objects with more durable value no matter how badly they screw up the online product, and even if you don't do it yourself, other people doing it will underpin the prices of your cards. It's a pretty powerful feature of MTGO and worth bearing in mind at times like this.
Sindbad's art is Sindbad riding a Roc's claw, an event which occurred on his second voyage, as referenced on this Hungarian postage stamp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1724_Tales_300.jpg
Also, Erg is a real word, a desert area of mainly sand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erg_(landform)
thanks, if the guys will have me I'm looking to be a more regular part of the podcast.
Great cast as always. Great to hear from Josh too. I don't believe the sky has fallen with MTGO but I do believe this is the worst it has been in 6 years. I am HOPING though not highly that when V4 finally comes as the only way to log in, I will still be able to with the machines I have. I suspect I might not based on what happened last time, for a few years. So I am not surprised people are selling off now the cards with the most volatile prices. (Standard relevant ones mainly.)
In fact if I realized how bad it would get I would have done that a few months ago... As it is I figure we are stuck in the shelter until the storm passes...card games anyone??
I am glad the arrogance of the Ivory Tower has finally been pierced by the barbs of an angry populace even if it took the nobility (pros ranting) to do it. I am glad they who dwell in said tower are finally copping to the problems at hand. I am hopeful something positive will come of it.
Yeah, it's been my experience that Blood Moon is awesome against Oath, provided you don't have any creatures on board, because it mana-screws them and shuts off Orchard, but Magus is very mediocre, especially since they run 4 Lotus Petals.
Pros: you're funny. Cons: I think you give an inconsistent standard from card to card as to what counts as a modern-day analogue, but I guess I shouldn't take it too seriously. Nitpick: unless I'm mistaken, Singing Tree stops non-fliers as well. Head-scratcher: Goblin Guide is only a "moderate upgrade" over Hurr Jackal? Guide has brought tournament wins to RDW that could never have happened without it. In sum: fun read, thanks!
oh wait you mean i skipped those when listing sets chronologically
whoops! if i do get that far in the series, i would do them before homelands yes
maybe one day
You're not going to do Ice Age and Alliances?
Here is my most recent play session and decklist. Much easier to see the decklist at the end of the video for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE0O78mSRZU
Feel free to use it, adapt it, or ignore it entirely. As I said earlier, it would also be interesting to see an unspoiled take on how the deck can be adapted to better fit the meta.
Mine's one or two years out of date too believe it or not.
My photo is not my most current either.
Yeah, that build was soft to Oath, primarily because I overestimated the value of Magus of the Moon in the Oath matchup.
For the record, though, in Game 1 you score wins off win cons alternative to Oath (as happened in my videos with Gilded Drake-Blightsteel), but I think for Games 2 and 3 the plan should just be to blow up the Oath with hasty Trygon or... sadly... Thunderscape Battlemage, in addition to the Cage plan. Also, if you are in a situation where you're otherwise confident but expect the possibility of Dragon's Breath, you can plop an Ooze onto the table and plan to eat it when it's in the yard before its trigger resolves. Not ideal, but certainly possible.
My general strategy, though, is just to lose when my opponents draw insane hands. I can cope with that.
Did you guys see my deck? I had 4 Memory Jar's to win the foil snapcaster!!! Also my deck was not stax - I mean it had 4 Kuldotha Forgemaster even... Now do I get any credit Zach?
It was actually Terminus, not Balance, although they pretty much had the same effect at that point. Also, I think Bluediamonds and Enderfall are also running it (Balance, that is), at least in the board. As for why Balance is underplayed, I'd say it's because it doesn't really fit into a lot of decks: Stax, Affinity, and Dredge obviously aren't going to play it and neither are Fish/Bears decks, so unless you are running Oath with white in it, there really isn't an obvious place for it.
As for Vintage players, it was briefly mentioned on the post about MTGO on the Drain and was generally met with a shrug, far as I can tell. Most Vintage players are going to be paying attention to paper Magic and aren't really going to care about what happens online until Vintage actually happens.
I agree that the whole thing is a fiasco, especially given all the time they've had to work on getting it right. I didn't talk about it too much in my column, because I mostly wanted to focus on Magic, but the most annoying thing about it is that there is no explanation of what went wrong, what they are needing to fix, what the timetable is before sanctioned events are back online. I don't expect them to detail every little thing, but to just out of the blue say, "Hey guys, we're taking everything down! We'll let you know more at the end of the year!" is just asinine.
Sorry, the first match is here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3GXYrcdXFM
That being said, there's at least a 50% chance your opponent hits Blightsteel and Dragon Breath has kind of fallen out of favor in a lot of builds, so I think the Image and Drake aren't exactly meaningless.
With the 'quick Oath' line, I suppose I was speaking more the point that if Oath comes out Turn 1 or 2 in Game 1, you don't have any reliable options to get out of it, whereas later in the game, you at least have a chance.
Ah k! Well then carry on haha.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I plan on giving more in-depth answers to these questions in my next article, but for now I will give the short versions.
PW: There was one big reason for not including Noble Hierarch in the list. I'm a blue deck that splashes green and white, and my manabase reflects that. Wasteland is a 4-of in most Classic lists. For that reason, I thought it important to have access to basics. As a result, I have less room for duals and wastelands of my own. To play a set of noble hierarchs, I would need to cut basics for more Tropical Islands. When building the deck, I thought making myself vulnerable to wasteland was going to be a big no-no.
In my experience, the stax matchup is always lopsided one way or the other. It's all about the opening hands. Sneaking in a turn 1 Delver under the taxing effects really puts pressure on them to get some offense going of their own. If I can Force their first taxing effect, a lot of times it buys me enough time to resolve a Pridemage or Trygon. On the flipside, their opening hand can also leave me in a near-impossible to win situation.
Dangerlinto: I completely agree. Returning a land with Daze is not optimal (far from it actually) in the Stax matchup. Please also remember that this is a deck that I threw together to introduce myself to the format and is far from a finished product. My next article will talk about changes I would make now that I have a bit of experience.
For the record, that is not a current photo of me, it's just the coolest one!
Totally agree. Also Daze is a total dud (almost all the time) vs Spheres. This is not a deck that you want to be putting lands BACK in your hand against - nor is it useful to save your lands vs wasteland because that interaction doesn't happen vs shops.
It's usually not worth the space in your deck. You might want to look into a couple of cards that have more gas all around. Apart from PW excellent advice, you could try Goyf if you want more aggro or Nature's Claim if you want more card for card trade-off.
it's not just vulnerable to a Quick Oath, it's vulnerable to Oath, period. First of all, neither drake nor image helps when the opponent get dragon's breath, and while Drake on Emrakul is great if you can land it if Griselbrand comes out you are dead - you are unlikely to get anything done once you give oath 7-14 more cards - you probably aren't getting a chance to cast Image or Drake.
Since this deck can't protect it cages anyway, you'd probably just rather not let oath activate altogether - which means either make yourself untargetable, or destroy oath - if that's what you really want to try to do with this deck.
i laughed way too much at this reply, and I'm not sure why. Good work on the article though.
You're playing Deprive in addition to Counterspell and Daze?
I like your gross beard. I used to have a gross beard like that, too. It would be even grosser if they were to touch each other and get tangled up.
Thanks for the article, and for your concise and well-written analysis of the dominant archetypes. As for your deck, I actually find it really interesting. It eschews the power and ramp of Noble Hierarch in the interest of playing additional reactive cards, including free countermagic and 4x STP. The 4x Jace is also interesting and likely serves as your long-term win goal vs. Oath. I would suspect that not running the Hierarch makes it very difficult for you to beat through Sphere- and tax-effects in the Stax matchups, essentially giving you one fewer option to power out a Trygon, and one fewer permanent to tap to a Tangle Wire. With that said, I appreciate the subtle roguish reworking of the Bant list, and I'd be curious to hear what your experiences against Stax builds were.