I've been watching a lot of your gameplay videos recently, and really wanted to compliment you on putting it out there and getting a good variation of commander food for thought. The fact that you run through replays is actually very appealing as it condenses games into much shorter spells and allows us to take in more of the highlights, I appreciate this is usually going to be extra time on your part.
That said, one thing that I would love to have seen in the pre-con reviews is more of your thoughts on the deck after each game, rather than a synopsis of the video. I appreciate we can see some of this within the video, but reading your perspective is always nice confirmation, and allows for a bit more understanding on the card interaction.
A good example of this is the Invitational final, where the card disadvantage of force of will ended up being a significant factor when the opposition had more wrath effects than the control deck could counter. At least twice, it was force of will exiling another counterspell leaving the control player empty handed in the face of further counter or lose spells.
FoW is not necessarily better than counterspell in Tribal Wars. Because FoW 2-for-1's you, it's typically only wanted against combo decks, or in blue tempo decks that need to tap out and protect their threats early. It's typically a bad card against grindy midrange decks or simple aggro decks like goblins or soldiers. In those matchups, you'd probably rather have a counterspell, or just a removal spell instead of any countermagic at all. Most decks in Tribal Wars are decks that FoW isn't great against, I play it sometimes but just as a hedge against combo. It isn't even that great in my blue aggro decks anymore because of opposing Supreme Verdicts.
The concept of the T10 is to push players into using different tricks, not to "balance" the power level of the tournament. They're all the more representative noncreature nonland spells of each color (you might also notice they're almost all 1-mana spells). Taking them out one event per month is not something we do because they pose problems, just to try and do something different once in a while. (Same reasoning for doing different subformats, among which Singleton: to have fun with them, shake things up).
The problematic cards, as far as I'm concerned are only 4 (plus those that DCI sanctioned, and not even all of them, but we don't have control over those): Glimpse of Nature and its clone Beck/Call, Thopter Foundry, Hypergenesis.
The debate on the Swords of X and Y (and Batterskull) is still active, and will be re-evaluated after April's Underdog.
I sent this over to a buddy of mine looking to get into Commander but not sure which precon he'd like to start with. Great stuff as usual! Also special mention to angel tribal, I love it, I remember back when I started playing that was one of the first things I attempted so it holds a special spot in my heart.
In the majority of cases, these are the cards at the top of the 'most used nonland cards' metric, a statistical analysis of every deck list going back through several years of this event.
Ah, but I actually do enjoy Modern, and that's why I did not like the pro tour meta game. Obliterator in GB is not new, and neither is Goyf in Twins, the later having appeared more than a year ago. The brews might be better optimized, and perhaps we will see more of these now that Jund is gone, but apart from Blue Moon, I did not find the pro's brewing particularly exciting. And I feel the format definitely felt less interactive this time around. But as you said, to each his own.
I especially liked the Red deck which reminded me of a Braids of Fire/Paradox Haze deck I had many years ago. Maybe a single Dark Depths in there just for lolz?
EDIT: Doh, Dark Depths is not Modern legal. Nevermind me.
I like the new timeline. You could expand it to also include more about the dates of the season i.e. when will the modern season start. I am very bad at finding this kind of information.
What we each find pleasing differs. I liked the PT and like the format. The Top 8 had an aggro deck, a control deck and a combo deck, plus some hybrids. Several of the same archetypes reappeared, which is what should happen in an eternal format, but all were tweaked slightly, and Tarmo-Twin was arguably a new hybrid. The Amulet of Vigor deck that splashed for Hive Mind, and the Rock deck that ran Obliterator were new innovations.
I have played in, and watched, boring formats. This was not one. And it contained the sort of decks I like. But, in the end, what I like and what you like don't have to coincide. It's like art - no one type will make everyone happy. And if Modern isnn't your ppreference, hopefully you like Standard or Theros drafts. Those should get you through the MOdern season.
I assume the Legacy sell-off, and some of the Modern sell-off, is attributable to people cashing in for tix to draft BNG. That usually seems to happen every time there's a new set released.
I agree with you about this Kuma, and I wouldn't even call it a "banning" of Rage Forger because it doesn't have the same connotations as a ban. It's more like you're picking cards to be added to the Tribal Ten on an ongoing basis to encourage deckbuilding diversity *within* tribes. That's an interesting approach. While I think it adds some "complexity creep" to Tribal, if the players can keep up with it then so be it. I also agree with your approach that things like FoW and Natural Order would be left alone, with a focus on altering particular tribal strategies not culling generally powerful cards.
I had been contemplating future deckbuilding challenges along those lines, to encourage people to play common tribes in unorthodox ways. For example, play Goblins without any 1 drops or burn spells, play elves without any creatures that create mana, and so on. What was holding me back with that kind of challenge is that those tribes were only legal once a month. It's nice that I could issue a challenge like that now.
Thanks for you article, as always. I really did not share your feeling concerning the Modern metagame at the pro tour. 90% of the decks were just variations on previous archetypes, nothing truly new emerged, 60% of total decks played were combo decks or had a combo element... I very believe that whatever goal WotC had in mind with the last round of banning/unbanning was not met.
"If one doesn't see it, it's no wonder Rage Forger looks unassuming. It's not. Nor the build was intended as just for fun and ended up in final out of sheer luck or something." Since you just reentered into the debate despite saying just above that you wouldn't, I'll.... shut up now.
By the way, can you please post the link to the ban-list. I could probably find it if it's fairly obvious, but it won't hurt to post. Thanks.
I'll stop debating with BoB about this particular point because I've had enough of the drama. I know many Magic players like drama, I don't. If I wanted drama, I would watch me some Shakespeare.
The rule is clearly established up there: "When one of the Major League tribe ends undefeated in a Pure event, one of the cards defining that build will be banned." That's it. It will be done, not put up for debate. I'll consult with the Four Riders privately when I'm in doubt, and the moment the ban will be communicated, the consultation will be over.
I have knowledge of the meta. Everybody could have, but that would mean spending hours researching it. You can go on our Tribal Central on Googledocs, go to the Popularity page, look at the times Shaman has been played, then go to the calendar (this year, last year), click on the events, look at the Shaman lists, see how many different players played them, with which results, and what are the cards that appear the most in those decks, and why (the why is provided by replays in this article series). Do that, if you like, or just trust me.
I'm sorry I used the F world ("fair"), which is something Magic players should never do. Pk23's build is a "nice" deck, but there's a reason why there are so many creatures there. If one doesn't see it, it's no wonder Rage Forger looks unassuming. It's not. Nor the build was intended as just for fun and ended up in final out of sheer luck or something.
But the point is: this particular build is a "nice" version of a build that keeps showing up and winning matches through a certain Shaman lord procuring inevitable damage. For the Purification Process to make any sense at all, established winning patterns in the Major League tribes need to be broken, otherwise they'll keep coming back in the same form. I don't think this is a complicate concept, but of course it needs a supreme judge, and that's me. I repeat: it's not an occasion to debate on what a card does in a vacuum, or in a meta that doesn't exist in reality, and whatnot. Or if Tribal Apocalypse is more casual or more cutthtroat and what to do about that, et cetera. The sense is that under the past ruling, Shaman, with or without Rage Forger, with or without Dark Depths, with or without Sunastian Falconer, was not playable in Pure events. Now it is. But not exactly how it is in Regular events, or it wouldn't justify the existence of the Pure sub-format.
I've been watching a lot of your gameplay videos recently, and really wanted to compliment you on putting it out there and getting a good variation of commander food for thought. The fact that you run through replays is actually very appealing as it condenses games into much shorter spells and allows us to take in more of the highlights, I appreciate this is usually going to be extra time on your part.
That said, one thing that I would love to have seen in the pre-con reviews is more of your thoughts on the deck after each game, rather than a synopsis of the video. I appreciate we can see some of this within the video, but reading your perspective is always nice confirmation, and allows for a bit more understanding on the card interaction.
Thanks and keep up the great content.
As a German, im used to get stereotyped, but i DID play other Decks!^^
New YSO rule: drink coffee before hitting record.
A good example of this is the Invitational final, where the card disadvantage of force of will ended up being a significant factor when the opposition had more wrath effects than the control deck could counter. At least twice, it was force of will exiling another counterspell leaving the control player empty handed in the face of further counter or lose spells.
FoW is not necessarily better than counterspell in Tribal Wars. Because FoW 2-for-1's you, it's typically only wanted against combo decks, or in blue tempo decks that need to tap out and protect their threats early. It's typically a bad card against grindy midrange decks or simple aggro decks like goblins or soldiers. In those matchups, you'd probably rather have a counterspell, or just a removal spell instead of any countermagic at all. Most decks in Tribal Wars are decks that FoW isn't great against, I play it sometimes but just as a hedge against combo. It isn't even that great in my blue aggro decks anymore because of opposing Supreme Verdicts.
The concept of the T10 is to push players into using different tricks, not to "balance" the power level of the tournament. They're all the more representative noncreature nonland spells of each color (you might also notice they're almost all 1-mana spells). Taking them out one event per month is not something we do because they pose problems, just to try and do something different once in a while. (Same reasoning for doing different subformats, among which Singleton: to have fun with them, shake things up).
The problematic cards, as far as I'm concerned are only 4 (plus those that DCI sanctioned, and not even all of them, but we don't have control over those): Glimpse of Nature and its clone Beck/Call, Thopter Foundry, Hypergenesis.
The debate on the Swords of X and Y (and Batterskull) is still active, and will be re-evaluated after April's Underdog.
I sent this over to a buddy of mine looking to get into Commander but not sure which precon he'd like to start with. Great stuff as usual! Also special mention to angel tribal, I love it, I remember back when I started playing that was one of the first things I attempted so it holds a special spot in my heart.
But given that, wouldn't you think FoW would be higher if it cost the same as counterspell?
In the majority of cases, these are the cards at the top of the 'most used nonland cards' metric, a statistical analysis of every deck list going back through several years of this event.
Short answer, tribal is a *very* different beast. For the long answer, I'm sure kumagoro will be around sooner or later.
Indeed - clearly not attacking with all there was a big mistake. The time got me moving quickly and I was lucky the mistake didn't lose me that game!
me too me too....I can never keep track of the "seasons".
Ah, but I actually do enjoy Modern, and that's why I did not like the pro tour meta game. Obliterator in GB is not new, and neither is Goyf in Twins, the later having appeared more than a year ago. The brews might be better optimized, and perhaps we will see more of these now that Jund is gone, but apart from Blue Moon, I did not find the pro's brewing particularly exciting. And I feel the format definitely felt less interactive this time around. But as you said, to each his own.
The timeline is much appreciated, particularly the item coinciding with one of my primary interests.
I'm confused. Without being a long time player of Tribal, I looked at the T10 for the first time.
Counterspell is more problematic than Force of Will? Especially with Vial already on the list.
O-ring is more of a problem than Journey to Nowhere?
White spot removal is banned, but black sweepers are okay (Massacre and Black Sun's Zenith for example)?
Brainstorm is banned, but JtMS is okay?
I especially liked the Red deck which reminded me of a Braids of Fire/Paradox Haze deck I had many years ago. Maybe a single Dark Depths in there just for lolz?
EDIT: Doh, Dark Depths is not Modern legal. Nevermind me.
I like the new timeline. You could expand it to also include more about the dates of the season i.e. when will the modern season start. I am very bad at finding this kind of information.
Excellent article, there are lots of interesting ideas here that can give a light to the future brews of Nykthos themed decks.
What we each find pleasing differs. I liked the PT and like the format. The Top 8 had an aggro deck, a control deck and a combo deck, plus some hybrids. Several of the same archetypes reappeared, which is what should happen in an eternal format, but all were tweaked slightly, and Tarmo-Twin was arguably a new hybrid. The Amulet of Vigor deck that splashed for Hive Mind, and the Rock deck that ran Obliterator were new innovations.
I have played in, and watched, boring formats. This was not one. And it contained the sort of decks I like. But, in the end, what I like and what you like don't have to coincide. It's like art - no one type will make everyone happy. And if Modern isnn't your ppreference, hopefully you like Standard or Theros drafts. Those should get you through the MOdern season.
I assume the Legacy sell-off, and some of the Modern sell-off, is attributable to people cashing in for tix to draft BNG. That usually seems to happen every time there's a new set released.
I agree with you about this Kuma, and I wouldn't even call it a "banning" of Rage Forger because it doesn't have the same connotations as a ban. It's more like you're picking cards to be added to the Tribal Ten on an ongoing basis to encourage deckbuilding diversity *within* tribes. That's an interesting approach. While I think it adds some "complexity creep" to Tribal, if the players can keep up with it then so be it. I also agree with your approach that things like FoW and Natural Order would be left alone, with a focus on altering particular tribal strategies not culling generally powerful cards.
I had been contemplating future deckbuilding challenges along those lines, to encourage people to play common tribes in unorthodox ways. For example, play Goblins without any 1 drops or burn spells, play elves without any creatures that create mana, and so on. What was holding me back with that kind of challenge is that those tribes were only legal once a month. It's nice that I could issue a challenge like that now.
Thanks for you article, as always. I really did not share your feeling concerning the Modern metagame at the pro tour. 90% of the decks were just variations on previous archetypes, nothing truly new emerged, 60% of total decks played were combo decks or had a combo element... I very believe that whatever goal WotC had in mind with the last round of banning/unbanning was not met.
General ban list.
Pure Tribal stuff.
"If one doesn't see it, it's no wonder Rage Forger looks unassuming. It's not. Nor the build was intended as just for fun and ended up in final out of sheer luck or something." Since you just reentered into the debate despite saying just above that you wouldn't, I'll.... shut up now.
By the way, can you please post the link to the ban-list. I could probably find it if it's fairly obvious, but it won't hurt to post. Thanks.
I'll stop debating with BoB about this particular point because I've had enough of the drama. I know many Magic players like drama, I don't. If I wanted drama, I would watch me some Shakespeare.
The rule is clearly established up there: "When one of the Major League tribe ends undefeated in a Pure event, one of the cards defining that build will be banned." That's it. It will be done, not put up for debate. I'll consult with the Four Riders privately when I'm in doubt, and the moment the ban will be communicated, the consultation will be over.
I have knowledge of the meta. Everybody could have, but that would mean spending hours researching it. You can go on our Tribal Central on Googledocs, go to the Popularity page, look at the times Shaman has been played, then go to the calendar (this year, last year), click on the events, look at the Shaman lists, see how many different players played them, with which results, and what are the cards that appear the most in those decks, and why (the why is provided by replays in this article series). Do that, if you like, or just trust me.
I'm sorry I used the F world ("fair"), which is something Magic players should never do. Pk23's build is a "nice" deck, but there's a reason why there are so many creatures there. If one doesn't see it, it's no wonder Rage Forger looks unassuming. It's not. Nor the build was intended as just for fun and ended up in final out of sheer luck or something.
But the point is: this particular build is a "nice" version of a build that keeps showing up and winning matches through a certain Shaman lord procuring inevitable damage. For the Purification Process to make any sense at all, established winning patterns in the Major League tribes need to be broken, otherwise they'll keep coming back in the same form. I don't think this is a complicate concept, but of course it needs a supreme judge, and that's me. I repeat: it's not an occasion to debate on what a card does in a vacuum, or in a meta that doesn't exist in reality, and whatnot. Or if Tribal Apocalypse is more casual or more cutthtroat and what to do about that, et cetera. The sense is that under the past ruling, Shaman, with or without Rage Forger, with or without Dark Depths, with or without Sunastian Falconer, was not playable in Pure events. Now it is. But not exactly how it is in Regular events, or it wouldn't justify the existence of the Pure sub-format.
And that's all I have to say about that.