Thanks for your article, as always. Concerning the PE top 8, do you mean the pairing rules will NOW follow paper magic, instead of NOT follow? Also, what was the problem with the current pairing rules? Sorry for being uninformed, but in never quite reached that stage... :)
Useful, as always, thanks. Just a note - Dark Depths snuck onto the Modern price list despite being banned. A card that could be interesting to add to that list is Leyline of Sanctity as it is a commonly used and powerful sideboard card already approaching 10 a pop.
Extended was dead long before Modern was introduced. You're almost reversing cause and effect here:
1) Extended was dead. (Ye Olde Extended)
2) NuExtended was stillborn
3) People wanted a non-rotating middle ground format
4) Modern vs Overextended, Modern won.
5) Wizzo's finally announces what happened at 1)
I would argue that Modern came about BECAUSE Extended was dead.
@ Rexdart " Most people with any ability to think long-term held onto theirs. " Except you're an idiot, many new players have joined the game or joined the modern format or just didn't own 20 zen fetches 3 years ago. These players aren't asking for a bailout for something they sold years ago. They're asking to be able to play a card game without spending the price of a week of a Cuban vacation or a semester of community college on a deck for a format that was deliberately designed to be more easily accessible (cheaper) than legacy or vintage.
The whole reason Modern exists is for Wizards to have a non-rotating format that isn't bound by the Reserved list. So reprinting (not having reserved) cards is the reason for the season.
Newer players have to start playing modern because that format will die without new blood. Newer players didn't play Extended or Prismatic and they died. Newer players didn't play Legend of the Five Rings and 89087 other CCGs and they all died. GP Richmond may have 4000 players, and you may have people to play with now, but formats die.
Why do newer players have to start playing modern? Because MTG is a business that must grow and a community that must thrive, not a closed club for Rexdart and his cardhoarding buddies.
The idea that prices will correct themselves because everyone will wake up and realize how ridiculous they are is asinine, Rexdart. Considering that Vintage and Legacy cards haven't corrected themselves in this way in 20 years, I can say that it won't happen in our lifetime.
When you compare the prices for a playset of fetches to the prices of spells/creatures in a Modern maindeck, 1 single playset of fetches is on par with the spells in your deck. That's what I consider ridiculous (I know this is the same for Legacy, but those lands are even rarer than Zendikar fetches). Eventually newer players such as myself will become older players and will still not have fetches to play Modern. If I keep playing for a few more years I will still have to pay 300+ for a playset of fetchlands (assuming the prices stay the same) if I want to play Modern even though I'd be an older player with a large collection. Of course I'm talking about paper only. Fetches are much cheaper online and I'd be more inclined to play Modern on MTGO than in real life.
And yet there are a few exceptions to your otherwise excellent point. Magnivore and Terravore I am looking at you, dudes... Absolutely no reason for them to be over 1 tix. And then I looked to make sure I knew what was talking about and all the vores on MTGOtraders are down under 4 tix. Ooops :/ (and all but one are under 1 tix.)
I love Resto Angel, and one of the great things about using her in this combo is that she's the only one that can win through Illness in the Ranks, which was showing up in PT sideboards. (I guess you can make infinite 0/3 Deceiver Exarchs to block, but that's not the point). And I generally think mana in Modern is far far FAR too greedy, and I cheer for maindeck Blood Moons when I see them :-)
I look forward to watching your match against KCI later when I get home. Caleb Durward just did a video series with that KCI deck, and he says you can win through Relic of Progenitus, but I suppose you have to toss enough stuff in the yard to bait it the way Living End can bait one-shot yard hate on a smaller Living End to set up a bigger one.
Varolz is a nice support dude for Skullbriar. You just can't depend on him being out there. So you can't run stuff like Phyrexian Dreadnaught and Death's Shadow, you just gotta use the dudes in your graveyard for value. The creature count in this version might even be a little low for that, but you can bump it up with ETB dudes.
Why do newer players have to start playing Modern? The format is designed for people who have been playing a few years and have larger collections, to give them something to do with their older cards. It just isn't intended for people who began playing in DKA. If those people want to play Modern, they are welcome to do so, but they shouldn't expect to have as easy a time putting together a deck as somebody who has been playing since original Mirrodin.
When you say the prices are "ridiculous", I think that's a very arbitrary line to set, what constitutes a "ridiculous" price is basically whatever price the person speaking the phrase feels is too expensive for him. But I agree the prices are ridiculous in one sense: the cards just aren't that rare. For something that has no intrinsic value and is basically just a collectible (you can't watch TV on your Misty Rainforest, make phone calls with it, use it to chop wood, etc.), there are just way too many of them in existence already to support their current price. In paper, there must be one or two million copies of Misty Rainforest, but it's almost the same price as Diamond Valley, for which there were 20,500 copies printed and not considering how many have been lost/destroyed. The price of Misty Rainforest is entirely propped up by player demand, which is cyclical and can't be trusted in the long-term. At some point, the game will shrink back towards 2010 levels (or worse) and people will realize just how massively overprinted everything from Zendikar block forwards really was.
edit: Just to note quickly that the online market is much better about this. The market is so liquid that supply and demand corrects almost instantly to arrive at something much closer to the "correct" price, whether high or low. The past price behaviour of IPA rares, and the current behaviour of Masques block rares, reflects an understanding of actual rarity online that the paper world seems to lack.
Yeah I agree that this is a serious problem. Chris's point is well taken from the point of view of online players but paper prices are always so much higher and so much more ludicrous.
I'm probably going to sell out my entire paper collection very soon. If it gets much higher I can just straight up buy a new car, which would help me out immensely.
I bought fetches for pretty cheap when they were in standard (When I say pretty cheap, they were always 40 to 50 bucks a playset per.)But it gets tempting more and more and I imagine by the end of the year probably sell out completely. I just don't play that much.
You know, there are newer players that came after Zendikar (I came during Dark Ascension), and the prices of fetches ARE ridiculous. It's hard to get into Modern when your manabase costs as much, if not more than a Standard deck. They NEED to be reprinted, otherwise newer players will never get into Modern.
Then there are poor people, like me, who have never been able to afford them (in paper), period. They always float just out of reach. Well out of reach, now.
About the price of Scalding Tarn... why exactly should the people who foolishly traded or sold theirs away a few years ago get a huge bailout in the form of a reprint?? I held onto my 20 ZEN fetches, it was *extremely* obvious that holding onto them was the wise move. Most people with any ability to think long-term held onto theirs. Impatient people with no foresight sold theirs off for drafts, beers, draft beers, or whatever they thought they absolutely had to have RIGHT NOW back in 2011. So that same crowd wants to have their mistake fixed for them by a reprint, at the expense of everybody who was smart. I say let's just not reprint them, so finally the short-sighted people might learn a lesson from their mistake instead of just whining and crying "gimme gimme gimme" whenever they don't have something that they EASILY could have had right now if they'd planned ahead.
As for Tribal Wars, I am like you, becoming skeptical that they will ever bring it back, whatever they said.
I also did an article about this deck back in January, after I first saw the list that Caleb received from one of his readers, Will de la Guardia.
I hated the deck. It was very frustrating to play, and I would not recommend the deck to anybody. You can check out my article about it here, and I have some matchplay videos with the deck also: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/eternal-warrior-14-the-avalanche/
Yeah I don't know how many WOTC people read this site but I truly hope they get the message here. It would be a shame to have to divest from the game because they are too stupid to care about their casual market.
Thanks for your article, as always. Concerning the PE top 8, do you mean the pairing rules will NOW follow paper magic, instead of NOT follow? Also, what was the problem with the current pairing rules? Sorry for being uninformed, but in never quite reached that stage... :)
Useful, as always, thanks. Just a note - Dark Depths snuck onto the Modern price list despite being banned. A card that could be interesting to add to that list is Leyline of Sanctity as it is a commonly used and powerful sideboard card already approaching 10 a pop.
Extended was dead long before Modern was introduced. You're almost reversing cause and effect here:
1) Extended was dead. (Ye Olde Extended)
2) NuExtended was stillborn
3) People wanted a non-rotating middle ground format
4) Modern vs Overextended, Modern won.
5) Wizzo's finally announces what happened at 1)
I would argue that Modern came about BECAUSE Extended was dead.
Not that I don't agree with you, but didn't Extended die because Modern was introduced?
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@ Rexdart " Most people with any ability to think long-term held onto theirs. " Except you're an idiot, many new players have joined the game or joined the modern format or just didn't own 20 zen fetches 3 years ago. These players aren't asking for a bailout for something they sold years ago. They're asking to be able to play a card game without spending the price of a week of a Cuban vacation or a semester of community college on a deck for a format that was deliberately designed to be more easily accessible (cheaper) than legacy or vintage.
The whole reason Modern exists is for Wizards to have a non-rotating format that isn't bound by the Reserved list. So reprinting (not having reserved) cards is the reason for the season.
Newer players have to start playing modern because that format will die without new blood. Newer players didn't play Extended or Prismatic and they died. Newer players didn't play Legend of the Five Rings and 89087 other CCGs and they all died. GP Richmond may have 4000 players, and you may have people to play with now, but formats die.
Why do newer players have to start playing modern? Because MTG is a business that must grow and a community that must thrive, not a closed club for Rexdart and his cardhoarding buddies.
The idea that prices will correct themselves because everyone will wake up and realize how ridiculous they are is asinine, Rexdart. Considering that Vintage and Legacy cards haven't corrected themselves in this way in 20 years, I can say that it won't happen in our lifetime.
Added to the Essentials for future references:
Champion's Helm: Another good way to protect your commander.
Powder Keg: Ratchet Bomb's slightly worse predecessor, still good for redundancy.
"Why do newer players have to start playing Modern?"
Because it's there.
When you compare the prices for a playset of fetches to the prices of spells/creatures in a Modern maindeck, 1 single playset of fetches is on par with the spells in your deck. That's what I consider ridiculous (I know this is the same for Legacy, but those lands are even rarer than Zendikar fetches). Eventually newer players such as myself will become older players and will still not have fetches to play Modern. If I keep playing for a few more years I will still have to pay 300+ for a playset of fetchlands (assuming the prices stay the same) if I want to play Modern even though I'd be an older player with a large collection. Of course I'm talking about paper only. Fetches are much cheaper online and I'd be more inclined to play Modern on MTGO than in real life.
And yet there are a few exceptions to your otherwise excellent point. Magnivore and Terravore I am looking at you, dudes... Absolutely no reason for them to be over 1 tix. And then I looked to make sure I knew what was talking about and all the vores on MTGOtraders are down under 4 tix. Ooops :/ (and all but one are under 1 tix.)
I love Resto Angel, and one of the great things about using her in this combo is that she's the only one that can win through Illness in the Ranks, which was showing up in PT sideboards. (I guess you can make infinite 0/3 Deceiver Exarchs to block, but that's not the point). And I generally think mana in Modern is far far FAR too greedy, and I cheer for maindeck Blood Moons when I see them :-)
I look forward to watching your match against KCI later when I get home. Caleb Durward just did a video series with that KCI deck, and he says you can win through Relic of Progenitus, but I suppose you have to toss enough stuff in the yard to bait it the way Living End can bait one-shot yard hate on a smaller Living End to set up a bigger one.
Varolz is a nice support dude for Skullbriar. You just can't depend on him being out there. So you can't run stuff like Phyrexian Dreadnaught and Death's Shadow, you just gotta use the dudes in your graveyard for value. The creature count in this version might even be a little low for that, but you can bump it up with ETB dudes.
Why do newer players have to start playing Modern? The format is designed for people who have been playing a few years and have larger collections, to give them something to do with their older cards. It just isn't intended for people who began playing in DKA. If those people want to play Modern, they are welcome to do so, but they shouldn't expect to have as easy a time putting together a deck as somebody who has been playing since original Mirrodin.
When you say the prices are "ridiculous", I think that's a very arbitrary line to set, what constitutes a "ridiculous" price is basically whatever price the person speaking the phrase feels is too expensive for him. But I agree the prices are ridiculous in one sense: the cards just aren't that rare. For something that has no intrinsic value and is basically just a collectible (you can't watch TV on your Misty Rainforest, make phone calls with it, use it to chop wood, etc.), there are just way too many of them in existence already to support their current price. In paper, there must be one or two million copies of Misty Rainforest, but it's almost the same price as Diamond Valley, for which there were 20,500 copies printed and not considering how many have been lost/destroyed. The price of Misty Rainforest is entirely propped up by player demand, which is cyclical and can't be trusted in the long-term. At some point, the game will shrink back towards 2010 levels (or worse) and people will realize just how massively overprinted everything from Zendikar block forwards really was.
edit: Just to note quickly that the online market is much better about this. The market is so liquid that supply and demand corrects almost instantly to arrive at something much closer to the "correct" price, whether high or low. The past price behaviour of IPA rares, and the current behaviour of Masques block rares, reflects an understanding of actual rarity online that the paper world seems to lack.
Yeah I agree that this is a serious problem. Chris's point is well taken from the point of view of online players but paper prices are always so much higher and so much more ludicrous.
I'm probably going to sell out my entire paper collection very soon. If it gets much higher I can just straight up buy a new car, which would help me out immensely.
I bought fetches for pretty cheap when they were in standard (When I say pretty cheap, they were always 40 to 50 bucks a playset per.)But it gets tempting more and more and I imagine by the end of the year probably sell out completely. I just don't play that much.
You know, there are newer players that came after Zendikar (I came during Dark Ascension), and the prices of fetches ARE ridiculous. It's hard to get into Modern when your manabase costs as much, if not more than a Standard deck. They NEED to be reprinted, otherwise newer players will never get into Modern.
Then there are poor people, like me, who have never been able to afford them (in paper), period. They always float just out of reach. Well out of reach, now.
About the price of Scalding Tarn... why exactly should the people who foolishly traded or sold theirs away a few years ago get a huge bailout in the form of a reprint?? I held onto my 20 ZEN fetches, it was *extremely* obvious that holding onto them was the wise move. Most people with any ability to think long-term held onto theirs. Impatient people with no foresight sold theirs off for drafts, beers, draft beers, or whatever they thought they absolutely had to have RIGHT NOW back in 2011. So that same crowd wants to have their mistake fixed for them by a reprint, at the expense of everybody who was smart. I say let's just not reprint them, so finally the short-sighted people might learn a lesson from their mistake instead of just whining and crying "gimme gimme gimme" whenever they don't have something that they EASILY could have had right now if they'd planned ahead.
As for Tribal Wars, I am like you, becoming skeptical that they will ever bring it back, whatever they said.
Hey romellos,
I also did an article about this deck back in January, after I first saw the list that Caleb received from one of his readers, Will de la Guardia.
I hated the deck. It was very frustrating to play, and I would not recommend the deck to anybody. You can check out my article about it here, and I have some matchplay videos with the deck also: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/eternal-warrior-14-the-avalanche/
It doesn't kill Norin, but it kills most of the deck (except for a grown Champion of the Parish).
I might just test Devil a bit more, it felt really underwhelming when I played it...
Yeah I don't know how many WOTC people read this site but I truly hope they get the message here. It would be a shame to have to divest from the game because they are too stupid to care about their casual market.