I have to thank Melira for my 5-0. I met 3 infect decks, the matches went more or less the same way: I lose game 1 pretty quickly, side Melira in, fetch Melira, the infect players look at her like, "Uh? What now?" (which, seriously, infect players? Dismember, maybe?), and couple turns later it's Iona time and gg.
My best match was against an Oath, though. Those were great games, I killed Emrakul twice flashing Big Game Hunter through Survival, then exiled him with Ashen Rider. Good times.
In the Top 8 vs. Nemesis.dek, I paid for my foolish decision not to put Elesh in the main deck. At some point in game 1 I managed to get a recursion through with 3 TNN on the other side of the board, and realized Elesh wasn't there. :/ Then I won game 2, but had to go to game 3 and that one didn't go well.
The final five gods mean that you don't have to force a 3-colour deck trying to reach three separate devotions. Think about it: Each colour now has one mono, two ally and two enemy colour gods. You can do a base deck in any one colour with some 5-colour fixing like Cavern of Souls, City of Brass or prophetic prism to splash the single mana for the other tribe members. This lets you build a much tighter deck with only one devotion to go for, so if you make your support spells permanents you can do a straight-up honest mostly monooloured God deck.
Is this the state that MTGO has devolved to, where we judge the client on whether it functions and where we have to use it cause there is no other choice? I surely will not lower my bar to that level.
I am with Rexdart, this is very concerning and now there is even a petition* (see link below) to stop beta let alone the many many negative posts on every MTGO forum I can find. How many players will be lost to beta and what impact will that have on our collections and ability to play? Very concerned and disgusted at the state of beta...
but I do question whether "vast majority" of people feel it is "unplayable garbage." The self-selecting people who comment on articles are unhappy with it, but I don't know how that number compares with the whole population. People who are not upset rarely comment at all.
BTW, good article on SCG, too.
Personally, I have tried the new beta at least once a month, often more often, since the wide beta first appeared. I figured I had to, if I was going to report on it accurately. I have always changed back to the V3 client as soon as I could. I will again this weekend. I don't *like* Shiny, but you can play Magic on it.
If I were in charge, my first action would be a complete review weighing the probable effects of scrapping shiny and starting V5, verses a move to Shiny. I would want to know exactly what is wrong with V3, what would be required to patch it up, and when we could have V5.
In the end, though, the decision has to be to start V5. In that case, the next decision is whether Shiny or V3 is better in the interim. And, yes, I know what the wait for V5 will be like. I have been reporting on Magic since V1, remember?
I played in the Prerelease, even won the tourney but felt so miserable, exhausted & unthrilled
by the experience that I seriously think of quitting my number one game of all time:
And this is distinctly different compared to the switch from V2 to V3 - even with losing leagues.
What a mess!
Hey grats on the t8 at the HoW! I just couldn't bring myself to field a bad deck so I opted out altogether. Incidentally grats on your annual undefeated win. May it be a streak.
I get what you're saying about the 2-drops, Kuma. But they do have a fair shot to trade with an attacker or a removal spell early and potentially protect Domri for a turn, which can make a difference. It's not even so much as I wanted those 2-drops as it is that I *didn't* want an additional seven or eight expensive creatures. Building endangered tribes is sometimes like a hybrid of a constructed format and a sealed deck. In sealed, you nearly always have to play 12-18 creatures, and because you have limited options available to you there is often a need to play some low-impact 2-drop just to make sure your curve isn't clogged too badly in one spot. Endangered tribes likewise present a very limited card pool to choose from. I would not have been comfortable playing only 3+ cmc creatures unless I was running more like six to eight mana dorks, rather than just the one set of Hierarchs.
On the topic of off-tribe creatures, I thought that my choices were highly synergistic with the deck's tribal centerpiece, in addition to having adding a lot of raw power. So in my case KotR was keyed to a particular card that it played very well with, and adding manadork was integral to assisting the tribe's lousy distribution that clogged all the good creatures at 3cmc. Using BoP in Naya Beasts is another example, to enable turn 2 Wooly Thoctars. There are also a category of archetype-enhancing off-tribe creatures, such as Mother of Runes in any white aggro deck, that are both synergistic and independently powerful. Mom is to current aggro decks what SFM was to the format's aggro decks in 2010, before she became restricted. The other sort of off-tribe splash would be like running Tarmogoyf in Cats. DirtyDuck did that all the time, I did it in the 2013 Invitational, and it is probably the correct build, but it doesn't really have any synergy. It's just raw off-tribe power.
One thing that frustrates me to the point of banging my head against my keyboard is the fact that in spite of their comments to the contrary, Wizards does not listen. You can cry and scream an complain all you want but they will doggedly go ahead and do what they want. They don't care if they lose valued long-term customers. They figure they will acquire new customers to replace the ones who quit.
I've actually talked in person to Wizards employees (big-name former players that most people would recognize). They all were of the opinion that only Wizards knows what's best for the game and we should all be grateful for whatever we get.
I logged on yesterday mainly because I felt I had to after Wednesday's podcast. (We advocated giving it a chance.) I was not disappointed because I expected no changes to the things that bother me (greatly) about v4. I really wish WOTC didn't have such a stubborn commitment to it because they are not improving it as far as I can see. Sure stability is #1 priority but if your longest time users feel like they are being forced to abandon ship then maybe your priorities need to expand a bit.
Anyway, Pete, last week's article had a lot more bugged cards listed in the comments. Did you forget to add them?
I read Adam's article on CFB today as well. It was a well written peice that really outlines alot of the problems with Shiny.
Not to add to the furious amount of negativity that has already been put on the Beta client, but it is an inferior product to V3 imo.
It has improved from a year ago, but nowhere near as much as it should have in that time frame.
I worry about the future of modo if they force us onto this existing Beta client in July without alot of improvements.
I completely echo Rex's thoughts on my collection. Particularily as mine cards are all foil and I cannot tollerate looking at them on the Beta they are so ugly.
This is a pivotal stage in the growth of modo and they better not screw it up.
Montolio
While Pete Jahn may not feel that the beta is unplayable garbage, the vast majority of people do. For a significant amount of players it will not even run on their computer in the first place, or will crash so often as to be unusable. The program is ugly, barely works and is a large downgrade to v3.
Check out the article on channellfireball.com and read through the comments. Its not just me saying the beta is crap, its virtually everyone.
I don't have any personal experience with the new client but Adam Barnello says it's junk and he's not part of some tinfoil hat brigade. His article on CFB today makes the point that not only is v4 nit designed for us, the current hardcore enthusiasts, it isn't even accessible to new players. What's more, the perception is that it's garbage, and most prominent players who stream on twitch have labelled it garbage and won't use it. That perception will fuel a panic as the date nears.
I am once again feeling very nervous about holding a valuable digital collection. If this goes as badly as expected, or is even perceived as bad, prices of all non-redeemable cards could tank overnight.
Wow, I'm blown away. Somehow I always thought your articles were focused on Modern only and dismissed them. Apparently, not. It was a great read. Thanks!
I see the Legacy Tribal Wars filter in the beta. Woot!
So I upload a Legacy Tribal Wars deck. Beta says, "Nope, it's Legacy." I say, "Nope, it's Legacy Tribal Wars. Look, it's one of the formats you give me to choose from." Beta says, "Alright."
I look at the deck. It's filed under the Legacy folder.
Yesterday I had to host a PRE in the beta. It's basically a nightmare.
Blippy won't be as optimist when he'll have to experience that. Try watch a game: the server won't give you access to some watchable games for mysterious reasons. Try communicate with a player who's playing a game: they're entirely cut out from the unified chat contraption (most of them don't play with the audio on and/or didn't activate the sound effect of the chat and/or those effects don't always work).
Like Blippy said, the codes are worthless now (of course they'll bring them back, but right now, there's no way to differentiate posts in a chat).
Like you said, you can't past anything longer than a single line (this is particularly baffling. You would think a more advanced chat would do that more easily). So there's no way for players to exchange lists in the game. Because why would Magic players want to do that, right?
The most comical thing: to access what in V3 is the Anything Goes room, you have to perform several actions and select the Getting Serious room. When you're done, you end up in a room that's called... Anything Goes.
Sometimes the beta seems specifically designed to alienate V3 users.
The things that irk me about the beta client haven't changed since they started with the first wide beta. To me that spells a big NO. I logged on today because I figured giving it a chance is a perennial thing. I was immediately struck by how much the same everything is. Whatever was changed was not in the UI. Truth be told I didn't get as far as playing a game this time. Though I did consider it. I was so annoyed with trying to build a deck in the editor that once I was done I just quit. Did I mention that you can't paste a deck into chat in v4? :/ It doesn't work the way it does in V3.
I agree with your sentiment about how wonderful it is that the client basically works. I wish we lived in a world where it worked even remotely the way it should given the standards of design and technology that are available. I can't say I will be using it if they shut down v3 before doing anything more to improve the experience of it. To me the experience is the whole point. Without that all you have is a bad game that barely works.
Guild slots are precious, I prefer to to use them on stuff that is interesting, and/or fills a particular strategic role. The Cockatrice doesn't fill any role in my simic strategies are needing. As far as interesting, it flashes in, eats something and then attacks and defends as needed, maybe he grows himself. It is a very good, cube worthy card. It just doesn't float my boat. Perhaps if he were in a guild where I feel I have more cards that I wouldn't mind cutting like gruul, or rakdos, or azorious, he would make the cut on quality alone.
I should've included Sigiled Skink as a potential in Pauper, oops. I'm not a fan of pikers without evasion or combat tricks but if the lizard hits twice then it's worth it. Might be enough.
Flurry of Horns I thought about, but nah. You're right, it's the CMC holding it back. 2/3's on turn 5+ isn't exciting. Maybe if they had intimidate or something to keep them relevant.
Cockatrice, boring? Flash, Flying, Deathtouch, Monstrosity? That sounds wicked to me!
Agreed, Nyx Weaver is my favorite. I can really get behind passive self-mill that doesn't interfere with my draw phase like Dredge does. Such a solid, versatile creature.
I've been playing a lot of Legacy lately, dredge most often, the scooping too soon thing is real. I refuse to concede a game until it's obvious that I am going to lose (when they attack for lethal.) and actually beat double leyline of the void with 3 1/1s because my opponent had just those leylines and an island for the whole game.
Old Joshua would have looked at those leylines, and packed it in before I finished my first turn.
I have to thank Melira for my 5-0. I met 3 infect decks, the matches went more or less the same way: I lose game 1 pretty quickly, side Melira in, fetch Melira, the infect players look at her like, "Uh? What now?" (which, seriously, infect players? Dismember, maybe?), and couple turns later it's Iona time and gg.
My best match was against an Oath, though. Those were great games, I killed Emrakul twice flashing Big Game Hunter through Survival, then exiled him with Ashen Rider. Good times.
In the Top 8 vs. Nemesis.dek, I paid for my foolish decision not to put Elesh in the main deck. At some point in game 1 I managed to get a recursion through with 3 TNN on the other side of the board, and realized Elesh wasn't there. :/ Then I won game 2, but had to go to game 3 and that one didn't go well.
The final five gods mean that you don't have to force a 3-colour deck trying to reach three separate devotions. Think about it: Each colour now has one mono, two ally and two enemy colour gods. You can do a base deck in any one colour with some 5-colour fixing like Cavern of Souls, City of Brass or prophetic prism to splash the single mana for the other tribe members. This lets you build a much tighter deck with only one devotion to go for, so if you make your support spells permanents you can do a straight-up honest mostly monooloured God deck.
We were well positioned Kumagoro, just couldn't close it out!
It was nice to draw against you, woof! (Because I'm pretty sure I would have lost otherwise. Even with Kataki and Bane of Progress on my side).
Is this the state that MTGO has devolved to, where we judge the client on whether it functions and where we have to use it cause there is no other choice? I surely will not lower my bar to that level.
I am with Rexdart, this is very concerning and now there is even a petition* (see link below) to stop beta let alone the many many negative posts on every MTGO forum I can find. How many players will be lost to beta and what impact will that have on our collections and ability to play? Very concerned and disgusted at the state of beta...
*(http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/wizards-of-the-coast-acknowledge-t...)
but I do question whether "vast majority" of people feel it is "unplayable garbage." The self-selecting people who comment on articles are unhappy with it, but I don't know how that number compares with the whole population. People who are not upset rarely comment at all.
BTW, good article on SCG, too.
Personally, I have tried the new beta at least once a month, often more often, since the wide beta first appeared. I figured I had to, if I was going to report on it accurately. I have always changed back to the V3 client as soon as I could. I will again this weekend. I don't *like* Shiny, but you can play Magic on it.
If I were in charge, my first action would be a complete review weighing the probable effects of scrapping shiny and starting V5, verses a move to Shiny. I would want to know exactly what is wrong with V3, what would be required to patch it up, and when we could have V5.
In the end, though, the decision has to be to start V5. In that case, the next decision is whether Shiny or V3 is better in the interim. And, yes, I know what the wait for V5 will be like. I have been reporting on Magic since V1, remember?
I played in the Prerelease, even won the tourney but felt so miserable, exhausted & unthrilled
by the experience that I seriously think of quitting my number one game of all time:
And this is distinctly different compared to the switch from V2 to V3 - even with losing leagues.
What a mess!
Hey grats on the t8 at the HoW! I just couldn't bring myself to field a bad deck so I opted out altogether. Incidentally grats on your annual undefeated win. May it be a streak.
I get what you're saying about the 2-drops, Kuma. But they do have a fair shot to trade with an attacker or a removal spell early and potentially protect Domri for a turn, which can make a difference. It's not even so much as I wanted those 2-drops as it is that I *didn't* want an additional seven or eight expensive creatures. Building endangered tribes is sometimes like a hybrid of a constructed format and a sealed deck. In sealed, you nearly always have to play 12-18 creatures, and because you have limited options available to you there is often a need to play some low-impact 2-drop just to make sure your curve isn't clogged too badly in one spot. Endangered tribes likewise present a very limited card pool to choose from. I would not have been comfortable playing only 3+ cmc creatures unless I was running more like six to eight mana dorks, rather than just the one set of Hierarchs.
On the topic of off-tribe creatures, I thought that my choices were highly synergistic with the deck's tribal centerpiece, in addition to having adding a lot of raw power. So in my case KotR was keyed to a particular card that it played very well with, and adding manadork was integral to assisting the tribe's lousy distribution that clogged all the good creatures at 3cmc. Using BoP in Naya Beasts is another example, to enable turn 2 Wooly Thoctars. There are also a category of archetype-enhancing off-tribe creatures, such as Mother of Runes in any white aggro deck, that are both synergistic and independently powerful. Mom is to current aggro decks what SFM was to the format's aggro decks in 2010, before she became restricted. The other sort of off-tribe splash would be like running Tarmogoyf in Cats. DirtyDuck did that all the time, I did it in the 2013 Invitational, and it is probably the correct build, but it doesn't really have any synergy. It's just raw off-tribe power.
That's because they've had kegs worth of the Kool-Aid to help them see the light. That and they don't recognize the Big Muddy.
One thing that frustrates me to the point of banging my head against my keyboard is the fact that in spite of their comments to the contrary, Wizards does not listen. You can cry and scream an complain all you want but they will doggedly go ahead and do what they want. They don't care if they lose valued long-term customers. They figure they will acquire new customers to replace the ones who quit.
I've actually talked in person to Wizards employees (big-name former players that most people would recognize). They all were of the opinion that only Wizards knows what's best for the game and we should all be grateful for whatever we get.
I logged on yesterday mainly because I felt I had to after Wednesday's podcast. (We advocated giving it a chance.) I was not disappointed because I expected no changes to the things that bother me (greatly) about v4. I really wish WOTC didn't have such a stubborn commitment to it because they are not improving it as far as I can see. Sure stability is #1 priority but if your longest time users feel like they are being forced to abandon ship then maybe your priorities need to expand a bit.
Anyway, Pete, last week's article had a lot more bugged cards listed in the comments. Did you forget to add them?
just for flavor to put a ! on how I feel about this mess:
http://youtu.be/uXnJVkEX8O4
I read Adam's article on CFB today as well. It was a well written peice that really outlines alot of the problems with Shiny.
Not to add to the furious amount of negativity that has already been put on the Beta client, but it is an inferior product to V3 imo.
It has improved from a year ago, but nowhere near as much as it should have in that time frame.
I worry about the future of modo if they force us onto this existing Beta client in July without alot of improvements.
I completely echo Rex's thoughts on my collection. Particularily as mine cards are all foil and I cannot tollerate looking at them on the Beta they are so ugly.
This is a pivotal stage in the growth of modo and they better not screw it up.
Montolio
While Pete Jahn may not feel that the beta is unplayable garbage, the vast majority of people do. For a significant amount of players it will not even run on their computer in the first place, or will crash so often as to be unusable. The program is ugly, barely works and is a large downgrade to v3.
Check out the article on channellfireball.com and read through the comments. Its not just me saying the beta is crap, its virtually everyone.
I don't have any personal experience with the new client but Adam Barnello says it's junk and he's not part of some tinfoil hat brigade. His article on CFB today makes the point that not only is v4 nit designed for us, the current hardcore enthusiasts, it isn't even accessible to new players. What's more, the perception is that it's garbage, and most prominent players who stream on twitch have labelled it garbage and won't use it. That perception will fuel a panic as the date nears.
I am once again feeling very nervous about holding a valuable digital collection. If this goes as badly as expected, or is even perceived as bad, prices of all non-redeemable cards could tank overnight.
Wow, I'm blown away. Somehow I always thought your articles were focused on Modern only and dismissed them. Apparently, not. It was a great read. Thanks!
I tried running Overdrive! in Beta a few months (years?) back. I gave up and switched to v3 before end of Round 1.
I check out the beta chat for the features that I need with each release. And am disappointed each time.
I am ceasing my PREs with the drop of the v3 client. (Unless drastic improvements happen between now and then)
I see the Legacy Tribal Wars filter in the beta. Woot!
So I upload a Legacy Tribal Wars deck. Beta says, "Nope, it's Legacy." I say, "Nope, it's Legacy Tribal Wars. Look, it's one of the formats you give me to choose from." Beta says, "Alright."
I look at the deck. It's filed under the Legacy folder.
I log off.
Yesterday I had to host a PRE in the beta. It's basically a nightmare.
Blippy won't be as optimist when he'll have to experience that. Try watch a game: the server won't give you access to some watchable games for mysterious reasons. Try communicate with a player who's playing a game: they're entirely cut out from the unified chat contraption (most of them don't play with the audio on and/or didn't activate the sound effect of the chat and/or those effects don't always work).
Like Blippy said, the codes are worthless now (of course they'll bring them back, but right now, there's no way to differentiate posts in a chat).
Like you said, you can't past anything longer than a single line (this is particularly baffling. You would think a more advanced chat would do that more easily). So there's no way for players to exchange lists in the game. Because why would Magic players want to do that, right?
The most comical thing: to access what in V3 is the Anything Goes room, you have to perform several actions and select the Getting Serious room. When you're done, you end up in a room that's called... Anything Goes.
Sometimes the beta seems specifically designed to alienate V3 users.
The things that irk me about the beta client haven't changed since they started with the first wide beta. To me that spells a big NO. I logged on today because I figured giving it a chance is a perennial thing. I was immediately struck by how much the same everything is. Whatever was changed was not in the UI. Truth be told I didn't get as far as playing a game this time. Though I did consider it. I was so annoyed with trying to build a deck in the editor that once I was done I just quit. Did I mention that you can't paste a deck into chat in v4? :/ It doesn't work the way it does in V3.
I agree with your sentiment about how wonderful it is that the client basically works. I wish we lived in a world where it worked even remotely the way it should given the standards of design and technology that are available. I can't say I will be using it if they shut down v3 before doing anything more to improve the experience of it. To me the experience is the whole point. Without that all you have is a bad game that barely works.
Guild slots are precious, I prefer to to use them on stuff that is interesting, and/or fills a particular strategic role. The Cockatrice doesn't fill any role in my simic strategies are needing. As far as interesting, it flashes in, eats something and then attacks and defends as needed, maybe he grows himself. It is a very good, cube worthy card. It just doesn't float my boat. Perhaps if he were in a guild where I feel I have more cards that I wouldn't mind cutting like gruul, or rakdos, or azorious, he would make the cut on quality alone.
You can check out my cube here.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/2766
Thanks thekk
By the way, do you have a cubetutor list that you're willing to share? I always like browsing other cube lists for ideas.
I should've included Sigiled Skink as a potential in Pauper, oops. I'm not a fan of pikers without evasion or combat tricks but if the lizard hits twice then it's worth it. Might be enough.
Flurry of Horns I thought about, but nah. You're right, it's the CMC holding it back. 2/3's on turn 5+ isn't exciting. Maybe if they had intimidate or something to keep them relevant.
Cockatrice, boring? Flash, Flying, Deathtouch, Monstrosity? That sounds wicked to me!
Agreed, Nyx Weaver is my favorite. I can really get behind passive self-mill that doesn't interfere with my draw phase like Dredge does. Such a solid, versatile creature.
I've been playing a lot of Legacy lately, dredge most often, the scooping too soon thing is real. I refuse to concede a game until it's obvious that I am going to lose (when they attack for lethal.) and actually beat double leyline of the void with 3 1/1s because my opponent had just those leylines and an island for the whole game.
Old Joshua would have looked at those leylines, and packed it in before I finished my first turn.