There is no need to ban Splinter Twin. The deck was kept in check during the entire PTQ season last summer (and arguably the existence of Modern.) Most Twin lists barely touch any Khans cards at all, so it's not like Twin has gained anything that pushes it over the top now. Pod didn't prey upon Twin either, so that's not it. Twin almost completely vanished over the fall too, showing that a harsh enough meta can easily displace the deck.
I really enjoyed the spirit of this article, but I did have some minor criticisms:
Using the full sized pictures over and over was a bit of a visual overload. The large chunks of them were aggravating to scroll through and actually made me pay less attention to what was in the groupings. I think this article was not well suited for that presentation. I don't think the thumbnails would have worked either. It would have worked fine with the listing of the cards names under groupings, with large groupings possibly being displayed in a 3-Column Table so that the list wasn't stretching awkwardly down the page. That would have provided you some more room to talk about things without flooding us with images.
While I know you were trying to show a variety of cards, you might have been a little too generous with cards that cost 4+ mana or cards that don't actually address the problem well enough. A lot of these cards will do something, but you probably overstated a good bit of them.
Plus, in all of those pictures, I don't see Combust anywhere, and next to Abrupt Decay, Combust is THE card that keeps Twin in check. (Well, Okay, Dismember, but after that...)
Twin does force you to play certain kinds of removal since if not you automatically lose the game on the spot. Again other decks you can use creatures to defend your life total, while against twin you cant. That is the main issue with combo in Modern in general. You can play all the dudes you want, but most of them are just dead cards when your opponent can twin or scapeshift you out of the game. The first time I started playing Modern and someone Twin'ed me I was so confused in how in the hell that combo was even legal. All it took them was playing two cards while I was tapped out and the game was already over. I had 20 life, 5 cards in hand, developed my board nicely, and then my opponent did nothing but just play 2 cards and you die. Not sure in what universe does that make any sense.
Experienced players obviously know how to deal with Twin, but if your new to Modern and dont know about Twin, you opponent will win with next to no effort. At least in Legacy most decks are equipped to deal with anything due to Force of Will. It doesnt matter what stupid combo your opponent is running there since I can just murder you with a counter spell. In Modern your just SoL most of the time. I dont get why Wizards hasnt considered reprinting Force of Will for modern. Would make the format a bit balanced as whole and would stop them from having to ban so many cards.
You have to have some kind of combo deck in Modern. If you kill off Twin what do you have left for combo in Modern? They've nerfed storm. I guess it leaves Pyromancer Ascension decks for combo (no thanks).
Twin is not invincible.
I agree that there should be a way to introduce Legacy cards directly into the Modern pool. If WOTC really wants Modern to succeed they will have to get around this problem sooner rather than later.
As for Legacy, I don't think it's sustainable with the reserved list in place. I've heard a lot of people talk about how they are opposed to counterfeit cards and yet also think that counterfeit cards may be the only way to save the format. Kind of a "if Wizards won't reprint them let the Chinese do it" sort of situation.
I sure hope Wizards hasn't painted themselves into a corner where we have to hope that Chinese counterfeiters can save Legacy. That just sounds insane.
If I walk into a room knowing that I won't face splinter twin, that's not going to make me decide to not pack any removal in my deck.
You have to play removal of some sort in almost every game of magic anywhere. Twin doesn't force me to play removal any more or any less than infect, zoo, gbx, whatever.
T
Infinite combos are essentially broken by nature. I don't think that makes them always overpowering. Many times, yes, they are.
One thing I've learned from losing to a turn one blood moon or grislebrand, losing a game fast doez feel bad at times. But losing slowly really isn't any different, it just gives you the illusion that you had a chance to win.
If we all start to think of losing The game on turns one through four like pulling off a bandaid quickly instead of slowly peeling it off, then maybe we as players can gain more perspective on the issue.
Twin is pretty busted since it warps the whole format around having to play removal spells and having to always keep mana open. However, banning Twin would not be a great idea. We already learned that banning a busted card like Birthing Pod doesnt help a format. Modern is going on a slope now to where everything that wins will just get banned, which is a terrible long term solution to a format.
Wizards needs to stop fucking around and just print a set thats exclusively legal to Modern and all other eternal formats in order to have some checks and balances to the format. Printing cards only through standard is what is making Modern a painful format to play. Legacy gets commander decks and other exclusive products like Conspiracy, Planechase, etc. Modern needs the same things.
They should just reprint alot of the Legacy staples that arent on the reserved list in Modern. People might say that would make Modern just an inferior Legacy, but if Wizards doesnt want to kill the reserved list, then there isnt going to be a Legacy someday anyway. With the way Legacy prices are, Legacy is basically nonexistent to alot of people.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Qasali Prodemage and other enchanment detruction won't work. Can't they just go off in response to the destruction trigger?
I've thought about getting back into modern. if splinter twin got banned, I wouldn't rejoin just based on principle, I don't have the deck or anything.
What has happened is that DCI bans have made players that get salty over a deck that beats them often, they expect that they can cry and provoke a ban. At least that's how it seems.
No need to ban Twin at all. Twin is a fragile combo. It's not like when Jeskai Ascendancy could go off even through removal and disruption.
I hope no one at Wizards is actually considering this. If they do, then the Banned and Restricted list should be called the "Whatever Wins Is Toast" list. Twin will not dominate like Birthing Pod did, because Twin has a lot of bad match ups.
I'm not knocking the deck. I love the deck! I'm just saying it's not any more likely to win an event than Jund or Junk or Affinity is. It's another good to great deck. Banning Twin would basically be saying "Play Creature Decks OR ELSE!"
I don't think Splinter Twin is likely to be banned. I can understand people saying that with it winning the Pro Tour and the last Modern GP but I don't think a ban is really warranted. As you say there are a lot of ways to interact with the combo and although losing on Turn 4 sucks there are plenty of available answers. Also, given the Turn 4 rule it would be very strange to ban something that very clearly fits within that paradigm.
If it would be banned for anything it would probably for being too versatile and being able to fit very easily into a URx Control shell - without too much card commitment. However, I think calls for a Twin ban are a bit alarmist.
Surprisingly, Chainer's Edict has been great for me in my board. The games you want them for tend to go long and seven mana isn't that far-fetched.
Just in this last PCT, I routinely played Treasure Cruise for six to eight mana and paid the full cost for Angler. It's just something you do sometimes.
I also think the number of lands could be cut to 18 for this deck with more cantrips, so in that case, Edict would have be evaluated.
Splinter Twin does not need to be banned. These past 2 big results just shows us people really aren't respecting the deck. It in no way even needs to combo off to win. There are plenty of cards that prey on it and you pointed out pretty much all of them. I for one actually enjoy the modern format and like that are a ton of decks to play and still room to brew and play rogue strategies.
And with 4x Evolving Wilds, only 14 lands that actually make mana. I know there are tons and tons of cantrips here to find land, but even so, getting to 7 seems far-fetched, and it synergizes poorly with Delve.
Wouldn't Diabolic Edict be better 90% of the time?
W/x D&T is a good deck. I'm sad it didn't beat bloom at the GP. SoL isn't that great in Modern right now. In the two drop spot, some options to try are Inquisitor Exarch or Epochrasite. Exarch always seems promising, especially in a Burn heavy meta. Also, no Dryad Militant? It is so hatey and aggressive.
I think such build will be much efficient under Soul Sisters shell. Here is a draft deck idea that Outpost Siege would be good with its Dragon mode, together with Purphoros for double punishing:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Norin the Wary
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Ajani's Pridemate
2 Auriok Champion
2 Ranger of Eos
3 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Path to Exile
3 Return to the Ranks
1 Spirit Bonds
3 Outpost Siege
8 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Mountain
Mardu Woe-Reaper has the upside of exiling some creatures and gaining some life but I think you're right, Ainok Bond-Kin would have been better. I know I'm playing 17 lands but I have Whisperer and Map so it's 19 mana sources. I really wanted Map because it could fetch red and Whisperer while it obviously can be killed, can sometimes provide very explosive draws.
And about the red splash it's not that the deck needs it but Pyrotechnics is really too good to not play. If I didn't have the RG land I guess I wouldn't play it but with this pool I really think I have to play it. And Burn Away kills almost anything and in Fate Reforged, almost every rare is a bomb and I only had Reach of Shadows and Rite as hard removal.
To be honest I built the deck with the 2nd Ainok Bond-Kin and without Burn Away and after submitting I thought for a while and decided to put Burn Away and I took out Ainok. In the hurry of doing so fearing that it could be just 1 or 2 players left to submit and they submitted in the meantime, I took out Ainok instead of Woe-Reaper.
There is no need to ban Splinter Twin. The deck was kept in check during the entire PTQ season last summer (and arguably the existence of Modern.) Most Twin lists barely touch any Khans cards at all, so it's not like Twin has gained anything that pushes it over the top now. Pod didn't prey upon Twin either, so that's not it. Twin almost completely vanished over the fall too, showing that a harsh enough meta can easily displace the deck.
I really enjoyed the spirit of this article, but I did have some minor criticisms:
Using the full sized pictures over and over was a bit of a visual overload. The large chunks of them were aggravating to scroll through and actually made me pay less attention to what was in the groupings. I think this article was not well suited for that presentation. I don't think the thumbnails would have worked either. It would have worked fine with the listing of the cards names under groupings, with large groupings possibly being displayed in a 3-Column Table so that the list wasn't stretching awkwardly down the page. That would have provided you some more room to talk about things without flooding us with images.
While I know you were trying to show a variety of cards, you might have been a little too generous with cards that cost 4+ mana or cards that don't actually address the problem well enough. A lot of these cards will do something, but you probably overstated a good bit of them.
Plus, in all of those pictures, I don't see Combust anywhere, and next to Abrupt Decay, Combust is THE card that keeps Twin in check. (Well, Okay, Dismember, but after that...)
Still nice job!
- Gio
sorry double post
Twin does force you to play certain kinds of removal since if not you automatically lose the game on the spot. Again other decks you can use creatures to defend your life total, while against twin you cant. That is the main issue with combo in Modern in general. You can play all the dudes you want, but most of them are just dead cards when your opponent can twin or scapeshift you out of the game. The first time I started playing Modern and someone Twin'ed me I was so confused in how in the hell that combo was even legal. All it took them was playing two cards while I was tapped out and the game was already over. I had 20 life, 5 cards in hand, developed my board nicely, and then my opponent did nothing but just play 2 cards and you die. Not sure in what universe does that make any sense.
Experienced players obviously know how to deal with Twin, but if your new to Modern and dont know about Twin, you opponent will win with next to no effort. At least in Legacy most decks are equipped to deal with anything due to Force of Will. It doesnt matter what stupid combo your opponent is running there since I can just murder you with a counter spell. In Modern your just SoL most of the time. I dont get why Wizards hasnt considered reprinting Force of Will for modern. Would make the format a bit balanced as whole and would stop them from having to ban so many cards.
You have to have some kind of combo deck in Modern. If you kill off Twin what do you have left for combo in Modern? They've nerfed storm. I guess it leaves Pyromancer Ascension decks for combo (no thanks).
Twin is not invincible.
I agree that there should be a way to introduce Legacy cards directly into the Modern pool. If WOTC really wants Modern to succeed they will have to get around this problem sooner rather than later.
As for Legacy, I don't think it's sustainable with the reserved list in place. I've heard a lot of people talk about how they are opposed to counterfeit cards and yet also think that counterfeit cards may be the only way to save the format. Kind of a "if Wizards won't reprint them let the Chinese do it" sort of situation.
I sure hope Wizards hasn't painted themselves into a corner where we have to hope that Chinese counterfeiters can save Legacy. That just sounds insane.
That would be bad for Asian players if they do that. Are they going to make a server for Asia only. I would miss a lot of players if that happens.
If I walk into a room knowing that I won't face splinter twin, that's not going to make me decide to not pack any removal in my deck.
You have to play removal of some sort in almost every game of magic anywhere. Twin doesn't force me to play removal any more or any less than infect, zoo, gbx, whatever.
T
Infinite combos are essentially broken by nature. I don't think that makes them always overpowering. Many times, yes, they are.
One thing I've learned from losing to a turn one blood moon or grislebrand, losing a game fast doez feel bad at times. But losing slowly really isn't any different, it just gives you the illusion that you had a chance to win.
If we all start to think of losing The game on turns one through four like pulling off a bandaid quickly instead of slowly peeling it off, then maybe we as players can gain more perspective on the issue.
Ban amulet though. Card is off the chain yo. Jk
What about Sun Titan or Primeval Titan for this deck?
Twin is pretty busted since it warps the whole format around having to play removal spells and having to always keep mana open. However, banning Twin would not be a great idea. We already learned that banning a busted card like Birthing Pod doesnt help a format. Modern is going on a slope now to where everything that wins will just get banned, which is a terrible long term solution to a format.
Wizards needs to stop fucking around and just print a set thats exclusively legal to Modern and all other eternal formats in order to have some checks and balances to the format. Printing cards only through standard is what is making Modern a painful format to play. Legacy gets commander decks and other exclusive products like Conspiracy, Planechase, etc. Modern needs the same things.
They should just reprint alot of the Legacy staples that arent on the reserved list in Modern. People might say that would make Modern just an inferior Legacy, but if Wizards doesnt want to kill the reserved list, then there isnt going to be a Legacy someday anyway. With the way Legacy prices are, Legacy is basically nonexistent to alot of people.
You pop it in response to the first activation.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Qasali Prodemage and other enchanment detruction won't work. Can't they just go off in response to the destruction trigger?
Particularly after the pod ban.
nice article.
I've thought about getting back into modern. if splinter twin got banned, I wouldn't rejoin just based on principle, I don't have the deck or anything.
What has happened is that DCI bans have made players that get salty over a deck that beats them often, they expect that they can cry and provoke a ban. At least that's how it seems.
No need to ban Twin at all. Twin is a fragile combo. It's not like when Jeskai Ascendancy could go off even through removal and disruption.
I hope no one at Wizards is actually considering this. If they do, then the Banned and Restricted list should be called the "Whatever Wins Is Toast" list. Twin will not dominate like Birthing Pod did, because Twin has a lot of bad match ups.
I'm not knocking the deck. I love the deck! I'm just saying it's not any more likely to win an event than Jund or Junk or Affinity is. It's another good to great deck. Banning Twin would basically be saying "Play Creature Decks OR ELSE!"
Great article BTW.
The Turn 4 rule is expressly stated by Tom LaPille here as a rule of thumb they used in making the original banned list for the format:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/155
I know it's also been mentioned at other points by various members of Wizards.
I don't think Splinter Twin is likely to be banned. I can understand people saying that with it winning the Pro Tour and the last Modern GP but I don't think a ban is really warranted. As you say there are a lot of ways to interact with the combo and although losing on Turn 4 sucks there are plenty of available answers. Also, given the Turn 4 rule it would be very strange to ban something that very clearly fits within that paradigm.
If it would be banned for anything it would probably for being too versatile and being able to fit very easily into a URx Control shell - without too much card commitment. However, I think calls for a Twin ban are a bit alarmist.
Surprisingly, Chainer's Edict has been great for me in my board. The games you want them for tend to go long and seven mana isn't that far-fetched.
Just in this last PCT, I routinely played Treasure Cruise for six to eight mana and paid the full cost for Angler. It's just something you do sometimes.
I also think the number of lands could be cut to 18 for this deck with more cantrips, so in that case, Edict would have be evaluated.
Splinter Twin does not need to be banned. These past 2 big results just shows us people really aren't respecting the deck. It in no way even needs to combo off to win. There are plenty of cards that prey on it and you pointed out pretty much all of them. I for one actually enjoy the modern format and like that are a ton of decks to play and still room to brew and play rogue strategies.
And with 4x Evolving Wilds, only 14 lands that actually make mana. I know there are tons and tons of cantrips here to find land, but even so, getting to 7 seems far-fetched, and it synergizes poorly with Delve.
Wouldn't Diabolic Edict be better 90% of the time?
W/x D&T is a good deck. I'm sad it didn't beat bloom at the GP. SoL isn't that great in Modern right now. In the two drop spot, some options to try are Inquisitor Exarch or Epochrasite. Exarch always seems promising, especially in a Burn heavy meta. Also, no Dryad Militant? It is so hatey and aggressive.
You only need 1 lotus, you usually play 4 ports
Sorry about that. We're working on getting better recording software again, though the pinging was avoidable if I'd remembered that particular flaw.
Norin is a bit slow for the deck, ideally you want multiple pings a turn. It'd make a good kill with kobolds and cloudstone curio, though.
Would you consider adding 1 x Soulfire Grand Master?
That's a lot like the sisters build Olaw was writing about last year and that I stole for my Genesis Sisters variation.
Found this week's theme especially useful. Thanks!
I think such build will be much efficient under Soul Sisters shell. Here is a draft deck idea that Outpost Siege would be good with its Dragon mode, together with Purphoros for double punishing:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Norin the Wary
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Ajani's Pridemate
2 Auriok Champion
2 Ranger of Eos
3 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Path to Exile
3 Return to the Ranks
1 Spirit Bonds
3 Outpost Siege
8 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Mountain
Mardu Woe-Reaper has the upside of exiling some creatures and gaining some life but I think you're right, Ainok Bond-Kin would have been better. I know I'm playing 17 lands but I have Whisperer and Map so it's 19 mana sources. I really wanted Map because it could fetch red and Whisperer while it obviously can be killed, can sometimes provide very explosive draws.
And about the red splash it's not that the deck needs it but Pyrotechnics is really too good to not play. If I didn't have the RG land I guess I wouldn't play it but with this pool I really think I have to play it. And Burn Away kills almost anything and in Fate Reforged, almost every rare is a bomb and I only had Reach of Shadows and Rite as hard removal.
To be honest I built the deck with the 2nd Ainok Bond-Kin and without Burn Away and after submitting I thought for a while and decided to put Burn Away and I took out Ainok. In the hurry of doing so fearing that it could be just 1 or 2 players left to submit and they submitted in the meantime, I took out Ainok instead of Woe-Reaper.
Anyway, thanks for your comment.