I think it was a matter of never seeing a trygon predator and only two chewers in four games, plus I wasn't able to create a board presence before being locked out.
The Delver v. Shops matchup actually creates an interesting tension. On one hand, Shops has strategic superiority. If your opponent's plan is to play a bunch of cheap spells, making them more expensive or just plain unplayable is an excellent place to be. On the other hand, any deck with access to red and green can opt to overload on hate cards, Trygon Predator and Ancient Grudge being especially powerful, and tip the odds in their favor. I'm not sure exactly which configuration you're running, but a package of 2 Trygons main with a Mountain, 4 Chewers, 2 Grudges board will really help the Shop matchup. It does make you a bit weaker against the other Delver/Mentor decks though.
Last night, I was going to play mentor, but I audibled to public enemy number one at the last minute. I was 9 tix away from owning Delver, so I just went for it. But I hit shops twice, and drew terrible 4 times.
Round four, I did win game one on the draw though, so that felt good. I hear that's the worst it gets facing shops.
Also, round one I needed one more mana for something, and clicked on my strip mine by mistake. I had planned on saving it to kill a land with, likely mishra's factory, but montolio played wasteland next turn.
I keep winning games in practice, and having it fall apart in the daily. I went with Delver, because I figured it was the most consistent, but it didn't work out. Not sure what I'm playing tonight.
While I agree with the stance on generally not degrading the play experience for all players - I HATE the idea of muzzling people who play passionately - from one side or the other.
Why should I sit back and take it if someone slow rolls? Because it is good for the community? I try to be a grown up about most things but I can't stand by and even *act* like I agree with 'always being nice for the integrity of the format'
Sometimes people deserve to be chewed out - even me <3
It is brutal man, last night in round three I pulled off the lotus + fetch for Jace - Activate JAce and find both recall and Sapphire in top 3. Was a magical feeling!
Thanks for reading and taking the time to give feedback!
Thanks for doing the bit on Misdirection. I just have one minor yet important correction.
"Now, the spell that was being countered is no longer targeted by that counter, and instead, the Misdirection gets countered and the original spell is free to resolve."
While this is normally the outcome, it isn't how it actually works. After you chose a new target for your opponent's counter, the Misdirection finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard. The counter in question then fizzles (countered because of no legal targets for the young 'uns out there). The reason this is important is Mana Drain. Without a legal target, it does nothing; your opponent does not get mana in their next main phase whereas if the Drain actually countered the Misdirection they'd get 5. It's the same idea as Remanding your own spell in response to a Counter+Draw Cryptic Command; again, without a legal target, the Cryptic fizzles and your opponent does not draw a card off of it. Also worth noting is that you cannot make a spell on the stack target itself, thus you cannot Misdirect a Mental Misstep unless there's something else it can target. (i.e. your opponent plays Fastbond, you Misstep and they Misstep back, you can Misdirect their Misstep to their Fastbond but not onto itself.)
As far as the metagame breakdown goes, I don't think it's that the Delver deck is warping it, but Gush definitely is. "Big Blue" control decks, both historically and currently, just cannot compete with the raw and virtual card advantage inherent in those based on Turbo Xerox principals. It happened with Miracle/Super Gro and later with Gro-A-Tog, both times landing itself on the Restricted List. Delver and Mentor just happen to be the best shells to abuse it at present. (I hope that makes sense. I'm up way too late as I type this.)
You know, you're right. It's something that I am personally committed to working on for myself.
Lately, I try to remind myself that I've had plenty of great hands/games, and just because I did bad this one night, it isn't the end of the world.
I think TurboK, that you are the best example that I've seen. After our first match, you were extremely polite and gracious. If I could be nice like that every time I lose, I'd be happy with that.
Vintage is the most high variance format in magic, and many MTGO players can't seem to handle it. We should learn from the irl Vintage community where 99% of players are just happy to play, even if they lose. If you think you lost undeservedly just take 30 sec break to calm down, and take your fingers off that keyboard. We don't want other players to feel uncomfortable and make the community worse!
The MTGO vintage community is a small group of people, if we want dailies to continue to fire we have to stick together.
It's my business to completely over react. I also gave Roast a triple x for a rating.
Grading cards is kinda silly as is so I took it beyond. There are at least 10 cards waaayyyy worse than commune with lava. They're just not as fun to be over the top negative about.
Again, I tend to be reactionary and sensational. its probably fine in the right deck.
Wow, that Dack Fayden/Notion Thief combo is some next level stuff! I never would have thought of that. I really want to build this deck now just so I can win with that little combo.
@David Porzio: I think the confusion is because there is a difference between Spellskite's ability to redirect the target of a spell or ability and actual damage redirection. The ability of Valakut is what is being redirected; the damage happens has a the result of the ability. Spellskite can only change targets; it never redirects damage. (Your question to the judge would apply to a card like Shining Shoal.)
A nice idea for an article. There are a lot of cards in Modern that offer flexible options that could inspire more articles like this!
A counter-Skite technique for those looking to fight against Skite. While Skite's ability is on the stack, if you remove it before the ability resolves, the original target will be retained. So for a deck like Burn or Zoo, getting them to pay 2 life and then throwing out a Smash To Smithereens or a Path nets you a free "Shock".
Great article as always, Joe. I don't want to toot my own horn but I'm going to anyways. I, too, have given away cards before to a newer player. I can't remember the guy's username but a couple days after giving him some cards he saw I was online and so he challenged me to a match. He ended up beating me with some of the cards I had given him! It was the best defeat I had ever experienced.
I've tried replying to those using Facebook but for some reason my replies will not show. I don't why? But anyways, David Porzio, Valakut's triggers only need a legal target in order to put them on the stack. They do not need a legal target upon resolution. When the triggers resolve and their target is no longer on the battlefield or has been given hexproof, etc. then those triggers will be countered because of no legal target. It is not a bug. Nothing in Magic says a spell or ability has to have a legal target in order to resolve.
I put Omniscience on hold, but I never had much luck with it in my oath deck. I did get a few turn one or turn two wins, but I had even more games with wretched mulligans into oblivion.
If it works, it's definitely strong. That's for sure.
What's the over under of AJ Impy putting Harbinger of the Hunt in a dragon tribal deck with Basikisk Collar in the next month and boasting about it on Freed from the Reel?
If anyone doubts this deck, they're wrong. I can personally attest to it's strength.
I used to play bug delver and shardless bug in legacy, this deck reminds me of that, it's fundamentally fair, but the power level is extremely high.
The first time you get mind twisted by dack /notion theif, you'll know what's up.
I actually had to sell bug delver to afford my vintage buy-in, otherwise I would be playing with the deck already.
I strongly disagree with your assessment of Commune with Lava. The idea is to hold it and wait for the end of your opponent's turn and then cast it. You get a whole turn of X mana worth of stuff to play. F--- is extremely negative. It certainly isn't an A+ for the spikes since it requires some work to be interesting but it isn't a F---.
As pointed out above I messed up on Roast. An edit has been submitted. It's obviously two mana. I was overly excited. My review still stands as stated. I knew it was two mana when I wrote all those nice things, but my fingers sometime don't listen to my brain. Then as revenge my brain misses obvious rewrites.
I think it was a matter of never seeing a trygon predator and only two chewers in four games, plus I wasn't able to create a board presence before being locked out.
Def need practice though.
The Delver v. Shops matchup actually creates an interesting tension. On one hand, Shops has strategic superiority. If your opponent's plan is to play a bunch of cheap spells, making them more expensive or just plain unplayable is an excellent place to be. On the other hand, any deck with access to red and green can opt to overload on hate cards, Trygon Predator and Ancient Grudge being especially powerful, and tip the odds in their favor. I'm not sure exactly which configuration you're running, but a package of 2 Trygons main with a Mountain, 4 Chewers, 2 Grudges board will really help the Shop matchup. It does make you a bit weaker against the other Delver/Mentor decks though.
Last night, I was going to play mentor, but I audibled to public enemy number one at the last minute. I was 9 tix away from owning Delver, so I just went for it. But I hit shops twice, and drew terrible 4 times.
Round four, I did win game one on the draw though, so that felt good. I hear that's the worst it gets facing shops.
Also, round one I needed one more mana for something, and clicked on my strip mine by mistake. I had planned on saving it to kill a land with, likely mishra's factory, but montolio played wasteland next turn.
I keep winning games in practice, and having it fall apart in the daily. I went with Delver, because I figured it was the most consistent, but it didn't work out. Not sure what I'm playing tonight.
I've heard people say that delver is the worst creature in that deck.They say it's a Young Pyromancer deck at heart.
I've won almost every match with delver, shops and the mirror being notable exceptions.
Thanks for reading, and for the clarification, I never thought about the resolution of that chain involving misdirection/mana drain.
I would say pretty high!
*Just my opinion*
While I agree with the stance on generally not degrading the play experience for all players - I HATE the idea of muzzling people who play passionately - from one side or the other.
Why should I sit back and take it if someone slow rolls? Because it is good for the community? I try to be a grown up about most things but I can't stand by and even *act* like I agree with 'always being nice for the integrity of the format'
Sometimes people deserve to be chewed out - even me <3
*Just my opinion*
It is brutal man, last night in round three I pulled off the lotus + fetch for Jace - Activate JAce and find both recall and Sapphire in top 3. Was a magical feeling!
Thanks for reading and taking the time to give feedback!
Love seeing you out grinding on Saturday nights man! What are you playing now?
Had the 4-0 last night - but I drew stone-cold nothing in r4 :(
Thanks for doing the bit on Misdirection. I just have one minor yet important correction.
"Now, the spell that was being countered is no longer targeted by that counter, and instead, the Misdirection gets countered and the original spell is free to resolve."
While this is normally the outcome, it isn't how it actually works. After you chose a new target for your opponent's counter, the Misdirection finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard. The counter in question then fizzles (countered because of no legal targets for the young 'uns out there). The reason this is important is Mana Drain. Without a legal target, it does nothing; your opponent does not get mana in their next main phase whereas if the Drain actually countered the Misdirection they'd get 5. It's the same idea as Remanding your own spell in response to a Counter+Draw Cryptic Command; again, without a legal target, the Cryptic fizzles and your opponent does not draw a card off of it. Also worth noting is that you cannot make a spell on the stack target itself, thus you cannot Misdirect a Mental Misstep unless there's something else it can target. (i.e. your opponent plays Fastbond, you Misstep and they Misstep back, you can Misdirect their Misstep to their Fastbond but not onto itself.)
As far as the metagame breakdown goes, I don't think it's that the Delver deck is warping it, but Gush definitely is. "Big Blue" control decks, both historically and currently, just cannot compete with the raw and virtual card advantage inherent in those based on Turbo Xerox principals. It happened with Miracle/Super Gro and later with Gro-A-Tog, both times landing itself on the Restricted List. Delver and Mentor just happen to be the best shells to abuse it at present. (I hope that makes sense. I'm up way too late as I type this.)
You know, you're right. It's something that I am personally committed to working on for myself.
Lately, I try to remind myself that I've had plenty of great hands/games, and just because I did bad this one night, it isn't the end of the world.
I think TurboK, that you are the best example that I've seen. After our first match, you were extremely polite and gracious. If I could be nice like that every time I lose, I'd be happy with that.
Hi guys,
Vintage is the most high variance format in magic, and many MTGO players can't seem to handle it. We should learn from the irl Vintage community where 99% of players are just happy to play, even if they lose. If you think you lost undeservedly just take 30 sec break to calm down, and take your fingers off that keyboard. We don't want other players to feel uncomfortable and make the community worse!
The MTGO vintage community is a small group of people, if we want dailies to continue to fire we have to stick together.
Cheers
It's my business to completely over react. I also gave Roast a triple x for a rating.
Grading cards is kinda silly as is so I took it beyond. There are at least 10 cards waaayyyy worse than commune with lava. They're just not as fun to be over the top negative about.
Again, I tend to be reactionary and sensational. its probably fine in the right deck.
That counter-skite play is a pretty good one. Thanks for the tip. I like it!
Wow, that Dack Fayden/Notion Thief combo is some next level stuff! I never would have thought of that. I really want to build this deck now just so I can win with that little combo.
@David Porzio: I think the confusion is because there is a difference between Spellskite's ability to redirect the target of a spell or ability and actual damage redirection. The ability of Valakut is what is being redirected; the damage happens has a the result of the ability. Spellskite can only change targets; it never redirects damage. (Your question to the judge would apply to a card like Shining Shoal.)
A nice idea for an article. There are a lot of cards in Modern that offer flexible options that could inspire more articles like this!
A counter-Skite technique for those looking to fight against Skite. While Skite's ability is on the stack, if you remove it before the ability resolves, the original target will be retained. So for a deck like Burn or Zoo, getting them to pay 2 life and then throwing out a Smash To Smithereens or a Path nets you a free "Shock".
Thanks for the shout-out guys! That makes my day.
Keep uup tthe good work!
That's great! I think it's important. If everyone did a little something nice for someone, we'd all be better off.
Thanks for reading!
Great article as always, Joe. I don't want to toot my own horn but I'm going to anyways. I, too, have given away cards before to a newer player. I can't remember the guy's username but a couple days after giving him some cards he saw I was online and so he challenged me to a match. He ended up beating me with some of the cards I had given him! It was the best defeat I had ever experienced.
I've tried replying to those using Facebook but for some reason my replies will not show. I don't why? But anyways, David Porzio, Valakut's triggers only need a legal target in order to put them on the stack. They do not need a legal target upon resolution. When the triggers resolve and their target is no longer on the battlefield or has been given hexproof, etc. then those triggers will be countered because of no legal target. It is not a bug. Nothing in Magic says a spell or ability has to have a legal target in order to resolve.
I put Omniscience on hold, but I never had much luck with it in my oath deck. I did get a few turn one or turn two wins, but I had even more games with wretched mulligans into oblivion.
If it works, it's definitely strong. That's for sure.
What's the over under of AJ Impy putting Harbinger of the Hunt in a dragon tribal deck with Basikisk Collar in the next month and boasting about it on Freed from the Reel?
If anyone doubts this deck, they're wrong. I can personally attest to it's strength.
I used to play bug delver and shardless bug in legacy, this deck reminds me of that, it's fundamentally fair, but the power level is extremely high.
The first time you get mind twisted by dack /notion theif, you'll know what's up.
I actually had to sell bug delver to afford my vintage buy-in, otherwise I would be playing with the deck already.
I strongly disagree with your assessment of Commune with Lava. The idea is to hold it and wait for the end of your opponent's turn and then cast it. You get a whole turn of X mana worth of stuff to play. F--- is extremely negative. It certainly isn't an A+ for the spikes since it requires some work to be interesting but it isn't a F---.
As pointed out above I messed up on Roast. An edit has been submitted. It's obviously two mana. I was overly excited. My review still stands as stated. I knew it was two mana when I wrote all those nice things, but my fingers sometime don't listen to my brain. Then as revenge my brain misses obvious rewrites.
No, really.