There are a few decks that are budget friendly. Enchantress, Dredge, RDW and Sligh are all viable options. Enchantress is missing a few cards, but all 4 decks can be purchased for around 200 or less I believe. And dude, don't run the egg deck lol. If I see you in 2mans running the egg deck I'll get hungry and have to concede based on my need for scrambled eggs and bacon! Mmmmmmmm Bacon!
screw healthcare i need a stimulus package to help me get into legacy. I do miss anything close to resembling a budget in this article though. Im still torn on the egg deck too.
These are much better rogue decks than Part 1. One thing of note, You talk about using Imperial Recruiter in your Aluren Deck, but your deck doesn't have any maindeck. I am assuming you are referring to Whiffy's List in his article. I've been messing around with Aluren and personally don't think you need to go the Imperial path. I've been sticking with just the Strix package, running 4x Tarmos md. The deck is very slow, getting Aluren down can be a problem and the combo can be easily disrupted at times. So far great article, will finish reading it later.
look at his first 5 picks. had he not been forcing black, as even he says, he'd have gone into red (and so would most of us). after p1p1 black you get 4 red picks until p1p6 hideous end. i think the draft becomes quite unpredictable at that point. i'll admit this isn't quite a classic example of cutting a color, but maybe more about making an early color commitment and sticking to it.
and it also seems to me that some of the disfigures in pack2 come because he's taken all the black away from neighbors to the right.
I agree. I've been in drafts with you where I thought my pod were idiots (obv. I won), but would never actually come out and say my draft-mates were idiots.
I completely agree with this comment. Calling opponents idiots multiple times in single article (even in questioning form) is more a picture of you than your opponents. There are way too many players on magic online without elementary culture. And this article pretends to be educational! Congratulations on winning this draft ... and SHAME ON YOU!
walking atlas seems like it would work in a landfall deck, but even there its meh...In draft it can be a cheap KotR sneaking in Sejiri Steppe or Teetering Peaks but that is about it.
Yeah, forgot about the Walking Atlas - but you're right that:
1. It is the only way to get Instant speed Non-Basic Lands into play in Standard Pauper.
2. It is almost always going to be terrible.
And yes, there are multiple ways of getting Basic Lands into play - like Harrow, the Khalni Heart, Fetch-lands, etc.
Ok, so you had a few players in the draft who were below average in skill. But calling them idiots? Is this how you really feel about players with less experience / skill than you?
but i wouldve taken the Hedron Rover over the Mire's Toll. I can't think of any card i'd sub out for Toll, and as already mentioned Rover can block Marauder (and also Bladetusk Boar, which you saw).
Overall I would say if you didn't win with this gift you would be laughed into oblivion. I also think I would've cut the Croc for Pilgrim's Eye. Your three slot is pretty empty, fliers are at a premium, it ensures you hit four mana for Crypt Ripper and Jagwasp Swarm (not to mention Mind Sludge and kicking Marsh Casualities), AND it keeps the landfall coming. Not to mention that it's just plain CA. I know the Croc can occasionally be a "Juzam Djinn", but it's also a 1 toughness for the first turn and if you miss your fifth land drop, it really stinks. Then again you have a lot of 1 drops.
But with Nighthawk and 7 solid removal spells (including maybe the best board sweeper) you probably could've played Chimney Imp and won. I think this was less an example of what happens when you cut, and more an example of what happens when a draft if gift wrapped.
I don't think this was a great example of "basics of drafting" or cutting as, well frankly, 6th sick hideous ends are silly. A fun draft write up but not a good example of basics...
So do Harrow and Khalni Heart Expedition, I don't think gwyned was trying to indicate that there weren't any ways to play lands at instant speed, merely that these ways aren't very good/are unnecessary.
I think the one major mistake you made when making picks was not taking the lodestone golem. with your low cc creatures, it basically wouldve topped out your curve. When you are on the play a t4 lodestone is gg alot of time. You took a piece of removal instead , in a deck that already had alot of removal.
As far as forcing goes, I have been drafting alot of zzw lately and have been trying to force mono or close to mono color decks as often as I can. It is surprisingly easy, though I would recomend not going mono blue.
Your deck was very strong. I didn't mean it was an average deck just that your picks pack one weren't forcing the color but where average given your pack 1 pick 1. Your picks were good and I might have only changed 1 or 2 of them for a more aggressive curve
You talk about how cutting black hard gave you the nuts black deck a lot but what I see is just an average black draft in which a bunch or poor drafters ignored black regardless. I don't see much in the way of cutting black except few passed red removal where you took decent playable black. Some days you just get the draft pod that all ignores a color (usually lower skilled players fixated on playing their 1st pick regardless of what colors are open). In this case people fought over the worst shared color, green. Point is your picks didn't push anyone out of a color, they were already avoiding black to begin with. The wheel of your first pack clearly shows this.
I liked it. I believe that you should stick to your writing style. It's fine to remind us of the competitive spirit in Magic. As long as you aren't a jerk to your opponents. For example, "I crushed TopBossUltra in round one" is fine, while "TopBossUltra is a terrible player, so I beat him in round one" is not. I didn't notice you insulting anyone.
Also, stick to your editor. I did see one thing he missed though (I only read the article once). "I'm one of the few white weenie players who don't really respect this guy." It should be "doesn't." Still, as a reader I thank you for using an editor, and as someone who has done some editing I thank you for crediting him.
While your article doesn't serve the purpose you claim it will, it serves as a good primer for WW and it seems to have generated a lot of interest in the deck.
For the most part, all I've done with this comment is agree with things Paul Leicht said about the article. I can live with that though. He seems like a smart guy.
The reserve requirement is actually 10%. Still is. It's there to cover the immediate payback needs and no more. So banks can lend not just three times what they hold, but nine times. (Although a loan is an "asset" so I'd avoid using that word.) Most don't go quite to that limit so triple might be more practically realistic, but the law is 10%.
This isn't a bad thing by the way. If banks had to hold more money on hand they couldn't make as many loans, so they wouldn't have as much opportunity to make profits, so they'd have to charge a greater rate spread. It would be harder to get a loan to buy a house, and you'd pay 7 or 8% instead of 5%.
The problem a few years ago is that banks loaned money to people who couldn't pay it back. That meant Fannie Mae and Lehman Brothers and all the other guys couldn't pay their own loans, and no longer had good standing to borrow more. Since the whole banking system is based on passing money around, when it stops flowing back everyone feels that pain.
So strictly speaking the problem wasn't the quantity of loans, it was the quality. Yes technically there should have been fewer, but it should have been the right fewer.
Surely Tireless Tribe is the being overlooked here? it worked well enough in extended dredge decks not so long ago?
And Bojuka Bog will make it one sided if you just hold it in hand until ready to reanimate
Then just slot in loads of creatures with enters the battlefield and/or cycling and your away...fault grinder comes to mind...
turn 1 tribe, turn 2 4/4 trampler with the other guy on no lands...seems like the games over there and then to me, especially if the other guys opted for a sub-optimal low land hand
or what about playing it in a blue agro/control deck as a splash, drop down a draw 1 discard 1 guy then plump Errant Ephemeron into play on turn 4 with 2 mana open for your counter spell as protection
I do agree that the main weakness is a lack of decent targets but for the time being I think exhume opens up a fair few avenues, unearth (the card) will only just be around the corner and that will surely add punch too
There are a few decks that are budget friendly. Enchantress, Dredge, RDW and Sligh are all viable options. Enchantress is missing a few cards, but all 4 decks can be purchased for around 200 or less I believe. And dude, don't run the egg deck lol. If I see you in 2mans running the egg deck I'll get hungry and have to concede based on my need for scrambled eggs and bacon! Mmmmmmmm Bacon!
screw healthcare i need a stimulus package to help me get into legacy. I do miss anything close to resembling a budget in this article though. Im still torn on the egg deck too.
These are much better rogue decks than Part 1. One thing of note, You talk about using Imperial Recruiter in your Aluren Deck, but your deck doesn't have any maindeck. I am assuming you are referring to Whiffy's List in his article. I've been messing around with Aluren and personally don't think you need to go the Imperial path. I've been sticking with just the Strix package, running 4x Tarmos md. The deck is very slow, getting Aluren down can be a problem and the combo can be easily disrupted at times. So far great article, will finish reading it later.
look at his first 5 picks. had he not been forcing black, as even he says, he'd have gone into red (and so would most of us). after p1p1 black you get 4 red picks until p1p6 hideous end. i think the draft becomes quite unpredictable at that point. i'll admit this isn't quite a classic example of cutting a color, but maybe more about making an early color commitment and sticking to it.
and it also seems to me that some of the disfigures in pack2 come because he's taken all the black away from neighbors to the right.
Cutting didnt result in you having a good black deck.
Black was ignored and it was the colour you happened to be in.
The stuff that tabled from the first packs clearly shows this.
And I agree with the above about lodestone.
It wouldnt be a raredraft, but simply the best pick for your deck.
I agree. I've been in drafts with you where I thought my pod were idiots (obv. I won), but would never actually come out and say my draft-mates were idiots.
I completely agree with this comment. Calling opponents idiots multiple times in single article (even in questioning form) is more a picture of you than your opponents. There are way too many players on magic online without elementary culture. And this article pretends to be educational! Congratulations on winning this draft ... and SHAME ON YOU!
walking atlas seems like it would work in a landfall deck, but even there its meh...In draft it can be a cheap KotR sneaking in Sejiri Steppe or Teetering Peaks but that is about it.
Yeah, forgot about the Walking Atlas - but you're right that:
1. It is the only way to get Instant speed Non-Basic Lands into play in Standard Pauper.
2. It is almost always going to be terrible.
And yes, there are multiple ways of getting Basic Lands into play - like Harrow, the Khalni Heart, Fetch-lands, etc.
ummmm Quicksand is non basic therefore harrow and KHE are not even relevant to the topic at hand
Ok, so you had a few players in the draft who were below average in skill. But calling them idiots? Is this how you really feel about players with less experience / skill than you?
but i wouldve taken the Hedron Rover over the Mire's Toll. I can't think of any card i'd sub out for Toll, and as already mentioned Rover can block Marauder (and also Bladetusk Boar, which you saw).
Overall I would say if you didn't win with this gift you would be laughed into oblivion. I also think I would've cut the Croc for Pilgrim's Eye. Your three slot is pretty empty, fliers are at a premium, it ensures you hit four mana for Crypt Ripper and Jagwasp Swarm (not to mention Mind Sludge and kicking Marsh Casualities), AND it keeps the landfall coming. Not to mention that it's just plain CA. I know the Croc can occasionally be a "Juzam Djinn", but it's also a 1 toughness for the first turn and if you miss your fifth land drop, it really stinks. Then again you have a lot of 1 drops.
But with Nighthawk and 7 solid removal spells (including maybe the best board sweeper) you probably could've played Chimney Imp and won. I think this was less an example of what happens when you cut, and more an example of what happens when a draft if gift wrapped.
I don't think this was a great example of "basics of drafting" or cutting as, well frankly, 6th sick hideous ends are silly. A fun draft write up but not a good example of basics...
So do Harrow and Khalni Heart Expedition, I don't think gwyned was trying to indicate that there weren't any ways to play lands at instant speed, merely that these ways aren't very good/are unnecessary.
Sick sick draft.
Walking Atlas allows you to put lands in play at instant speed, but I can see how easy it is to overlook since it's terrible.
I think the one major mistake you made when making picks was not taking the lodestone golem. with your low cc creatures, it basically wouldve topped out your curve. When you are on the play a t4 lodestone is gg alot of time. You took a piece of removal instead , in a deck that already had alot of removal.
As far as forcing goes, I have been drafting alot of zzw lately and have been trying to force mono or close to mono color decks as often as I can. It is surprisingly easy, though I would recomend not going mono blue.
Your deck was very strong. I didn't mean it was an average deck just that your picks pack one weren't forcing the color but where average given your pack 1 pick 1. Your picks were good and I might have only changed 1 or 2 of them for a more aggressive curve
You talk about how cutting black hard gave you the nuts black deck a lot but what I see is just an average black draft in which a bunch or poor drafters ignored black regardless. I don't see much in the way of cutting black except few passed red removal where you took decent playable black. Some days you just get the draft pod that all ignores a color (usually lower skilled players fixated on playing their 1st pick regardless of what colors are open). In this case people fought over the worst shared color, green. Point is your picks didn't push anyone out of a color, they were already avoiding black to begin with. The wheel of your first pack clearly shows this.
I liked it. I believe that you should stick to your writing style. It's fine to remind us of the competitive spirit in Magic. As long as you aren't a jerk to your opponents. For example, "I crushed TopBossUltra in round one" is fine, while "TopBossUltra is a terrible player, so I beat him in round one" is not. I didn't notice you insulting anyone.
Also, stick to your editor. I did see one thing he missed though (I only read the article once). "I'm one of the few white weenie players who don't really respect this guy." It should be "doesn't." Still, as a reader I thank you for using an editor, and as someone who has done some editing I thank you for crediting him.
While your article doesn't serve the purpose you claim it will, it serves as a good primer for WW and it seems to have generated a lot of interest in the deck.
For the most part, all I've done with this comment is agree with things Paul Leicht said about the article. I can live with that though. He seems like a smart guy.
Heh, we need a way to make Target Player throw Target Computer through Target Window. Perhaps as a UU instant?
The reserve requirement is actually 10%. Still is. It's there to cover the immediate payback needs and no more. So banks can lend not just three times what they hold, but nine times. (Although a loan is an "asset" so I'd avoid using that word.) Most don't go quite to that limit so triple might be more practically realistic, but the law is 10%.
This isn't a bad thing by the way. If banks had to hold more money on hand they couldn't make as many loans, so they wouldn't have as much opportunity to make profits, so they'd have to charge a greater rate spread. It would be harder to get a loan to buy a house, and you'd pay 7 or 8% instead of 5%.
The problem a few years ago is that banks loaned money to people who couldn't pay it back. That meant Fannie Mae and Lehman Brothers and all the other guys couldn't pay their own loans, and no longer had good standing to borrow more. Since the whole banking system is based on passing money around, when it stops flowing back everyone feels that pain.
So strictly speaking the problem wasn't the quantity of loans, it was the quality. Yes technically there should have been fewer, but it should have been the right fewer.
Surely Tireless Tribe is the being overlooked here? it worked well enough in extended dredge decks not so long ago?
And Bojuka Bog will make it one sided if you just hold it in hand until ready to reanimate
Then just slot in loads of creatures with enters the battlefield and/or cycling and your away...fault grinder comes to mind...
turn 1 tribe, turn 2 4/4 trampler with the other guy on no lands...seems like the games over there and then to me, especially if the other guys opted for a sub-optimal low land hand
or what about playing it in a blue agro/control deck as a splash, drop down a draw 1 discard 1 guy then plump Errant Ephemeron into play on turn 4 with 2 mana open for your counter spell as protection
I do agree that the main weakness is a lack of decent targets but for the time being I think exhume opens up a fair few avenues, unearth (the card) will only just be around the corner and that will surely add punch too
basically, I 6-0d the swiss but lost round 2 of top 8
I put it last week. How long it normally takes to get some answer?