Hey, I found the idea interesting. I built the deck for $7, buying the cards that I didn't own already at mtgo traders.
So far I have only played 1 match vs a vampire deck in the tourny room. I lost because in the first game I couldn't get the combo pieces, and in the second no blue mana. Maybe adding some Dark confidants and Sensei divining's top would help. I may try that and I'll tell you how it works out.
themes seem to be the strongest solution I've seen offered in awhile between that idea and restricting the tribes entered I think there is some potential still for this PRE, but it will require more work on the part of the organizer
They look like they could work, but note sure why they would be better than the "original" versions of those decks.
By the time you have dredged you should have been able to win with all the card advantage of the grave scrabllers. YOu dont need some big 8/8 to win I think.
Same with the Storm. Not sure that the 8/8 would be better than using grapshot/empty the warrens.
I think a must for reanimate with Crusher is Dragon Breath from Legions.
Pitch that as well to study/imp and get a 8/8 HASTE annihilator.
But the deck really needs another ( cheap) reanimation spell to work.
If only they had made Animate Dead a common....
I've been using your file, which is quite helpful.
Assuming you see this comment, when you next update it, could you change the CMC for Dryad Arbor to 0 please?
I couldn't find a contact to email this to you directly, so if anyone can pass this on that would also be helpful.
Not sure what was up with the recording, but it was annoying as Erik was in the left ear only and Sebastian was only in the right ear. There was no "stereo" sound.
A brief addendum: I wrote this before Ulamog’s Crusher was spoiled. The Crusher (and any other common Eldrazi fat) change card valuations in exciting ways.
Tutoring is like the granddaddy of card selection (it wasn't until your response that I fully understood how you were using the term card selection - my bad), but Raise Dead in the right deck can have as a wide a range of selections as tutors (albeit, with a very short clock before you deck yourself). I would not qualify Raise Dead in the same category as Commune with Nature because Commune with Nature only lets you search through 5 cards, whereas the number of cards available for Raise Dead is malleable based on the rest of the deck.
That still doesn't make Raise Dead a good card, and I wasn't really trying to compare Raise Dead to Aurochs Herd. Warren Pilferers is a more direct comparison given what you get in play and casting cost. I would say that Pilferers is a better card in a wider range of decks, but that Aurochs Herd is superior in a specific deck.
Of the listed cards I think Rhystic Study may be underplayed only because of its cost/rarity.
On Mystic/Demonic Tutors: tutoring is very different than a simple card selection ability like Commune with Nature or Raise Dead. And the big difference between Raise Dead and Aurochs Herd is that the former nets you a creature in hand, while the latter will also give you a 4/4 trampler in play. It’s card advantage.
As for my Herd/Woodreader comparison, I’d say it’s a little unfair of me, since you’re not using them for the same thing. Which is not to say I’d ever play it over Herd or Mulldrifter.
I have run into Bequeathal, Shadow Rift (Wee Dragonauts storm), Rhystic Study, and Wirewood Herald in pauper decks. I run Auriok Glaivemaster in a white weenie equipment deck that is fun, but way too random to be a consistently successful deck.
Crown of Flames seems outdated by Fiery Mantle with its resilience.
Quicksilver Dagger could be fun on Slippery Bogle.
I have faced a Song of the Damned deck that fills the graveyard with creatures to power a huge Consume Spirit. It is a fragile, but interesting deck that can support Haunting Misery very nicely.
"I consider Raise Dead to be a skill testing card for new players – it’s important to learn that card advantage trumps card selection, and like the very comparable card Commune with Nature, Raise Dead is just limited card selection."
vs.
"Compare Citanul Woodreaders to Aurochs Herd: for the same price as the kicked Woodreaders you get +3/+0, Trample, and conditional pumping, but you only draw one card and that card is always another Aurochs. Sounds like a better deal to me."
By your first statement, the 2 card draw of Citanul Woodreaders is superior to the Auroch-search of Aurochs herd, but your second statement sounds as if the limited search ability of Aurochs herd is better. Aurochs Herd is really good in a specific deck and it trumps Citanul Woodreaders in that deck, but there are decks where Citanul Woodreaders is most definitely better than Aurochs Herd (granted, there are usually better options than the Woodreader for those decks).
Mystical Tutor and Demonic Tutor illustrate that card search can be just as desirable and powerful as raw card draw (ignoring Ancestral Recall for the moment). I agree that Raise Dead is a bad card, but I don't think the reason is as simple as card draw vs. card tutoring inequality. Raise Dead simply doesn't do enough to justify its inclusion in a deck, especially with Warren Pilferers around.
Thanks for the comments. I see that sloth in Magic means something different to everybody but next week I will once again present you a bunch of decks and I will raise the level of laziness with each deck. At the end I will enter a state where I will not even have the energy to win; instead my opponents will lose.
Seems like a slothful strategy of wait for your opponent to kill him/herself has got to be done with giving them hurtful creatures and artifacts and enchanting their permanents with auras that ping. Also add in Manabarbs, Ankh of Mishra etc for punishing effects.
I think you got the sloth wrong way. It sounds now that you are doing all the work when it should be your minions doing it? Or maybe you want to attempt easy victories with Coalition Victory, Biorhythm and the like, which would be lazy as well.
Of these cards I see wrench mind played in serious formats occasionally. Recover, quicksilver dagger and desecrator hag I see quite often in casual games, and the rest probably never.
I have played citanul woodreaders in a 100 singleton deck, and it's really never a card I want to draw, just too slow against fast aggressive decks and too expensive against control. The lure of 2 more cards has been blinding me to how slow and limited it is on the battlefield. I have come to the conclusion that Kavu Climber is better all round, or in fact something better costed like Nessian Courser would come down earlier for offense/defense and make more of an impact on games.
Wall of Roots vs Vine Trellis - if you're not using the mana on your own turn then Vine Trellis is clearly superior to Wall of Roots. Just saying.
I love the flavor of Sarkhan's lack of +abilities. In the comic he's talking to himself and he says something like "Why am I guarding this empty place? What was I thinking when I pledged my loyalty to NB?" So he's going mad from isolation and self doubt.
How are you picking off Hypergenesis's creatures exactly? Smother, Bolt, and Firespout do nothing.
Not to mention the inability of your list to handle a Progenitus.
Enjoy casting spells off no lands or signets.
And no competent Hypergenesis pilot walks into negate/spell pierce postboard.
Your matchup "percentages" seem completely offhand with no strong supporting playtesting experience to support. You can't actually believe you can win against DDT 40% of the time.
Trying out new and interesting decks keeps the format alive and I support it fully. But posting bogus matchup analyses just seems both futile and counterproductive. Well written article otherwise, keep writing.
P.S. Both Ancient Grudge and Leyline of the Void see play. A fact you don't seem to take into account when you did matchups. Postboard games are important. Zoo will not just be all dudes postboard. They will bring in Negates, Meddling Mages, and other disruption. Similarly, DDT will have Leylines.
The Lust for Blood BYOS deck looks pretty darn good. I'll believe that it wins! But I'm also a sucker for Zoo decks. I also give Bleed For Me two thumbs up. Open the Vaults is such a cool card.
My comment about "just write about Jund" was a comment on how much everyone likes to talk about how much they hate that deck. Gluttony = Putrid Leech and the cascade mechanic. Anger = Blightning. Sloth = "I don't know what to play, I guess I'll play Jund." (Sloth is also = "I was lazy this week so here's an article on Jund" if you want to be meta like MaRo.) Envy = hating on Jund because it beats you (a non-Jund player) every week. Lust = Thrinax and more card advantage from cascade. But since you're not restricting yourself to Standard like I thought you were after week one, meh. Although good call with "Not Your Average Jund." This whole article was fun to read.
Sloth.... hm... are you building a Stasis lock? (Without Stasis, I know.) Or maybe a deck with Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Ivory Mask, Damping Field, and other defensive cards and then wait for your opponent to deck? That's borderline evil. Copper Tablet / Armageddon Clock are good slothy win conditions, although we don't have the Clock. Oh! Chains of Mephistopheles, Megrim, Anvil of Bogardan, and Howling Mine. With multiple Chains your opponent will never draw a card (and keep it) and they'll mill for a bunch each turn. I'm just guessing. You probably already have next week's deck already made.
Hey, I found the idea interesting. I built the deck for $7, buying the cards that I didn't own already at mtgo traders.
So far I have only played 1 match vs a vampire deck in the tourny room. I lost because in the first game I couldn't get the combo pieces, and in the second no blue mana. Maybe adding some Dark confidants and Sensei divining's top would help. I may try that and I'll tell you how it works out.
themes seem to be the strongest solution I've seen offered in awhile between that idea and restricting the tribes entered I think there is some potential still for this PRE, but it will require more work on the part of the organizer
I'll talk to Erik about that. Sometimes the stereo mixer just glitches out.
Thanks for the heads up
They look like they could work, but note sure why they would be better than the "original" versions of those decks.
By the time you have dredged you should have been able to win with all the card advantage of the grave scrabllers. YOu dont need some big 8/8 to win I think.
Same with the Storm. Not sure that the 8/8 would be better than using grapshot/empty the warrens.
I think a must for reanimate with Crusher is Dragon Breath from Legions.
Pitch that as well to study/imp and get a 8/8 HASTE annihilator.
But the deck really needs another ( cheap) reanimation spell to work.
If only they had made Animate Dead a common....
I sided in my trusty Evil Presences to take out Karakas in MEDIII limited.
Hi
I've been using your file, which is quite helpful.
Assuming you see this comment, when you next update it, could you change the CMC for Dryad Arbor to 0 please?
I couldn't find a contact to email this to you directly, so if anyone can pass this on that would also be helpful.
Thanks!
thats just mean...
Not sure what was up with the recording, but it was annoying as Erik was in the left ear only and Sebastian was only in the right ear. There was no "stereo" sound.
A brief addendum: I wrote this before Ulamog’s Crusher was spoiled. The Crusher (and any other common Eldrazi fat) change card valuations in exciting ways.
Elder it is :)
Yeah I agree 100%.
Hey, Drelnoch is the hardest working pimp around ... don't hate on the Yeti Mutant :)
Tutoring is like the granddaddy of card selection (it wasn't until your response that I fully understood how you were using the term card selection - my bad), but Raise Dead in the right deck can have as a wide a range of selections as tutors (albeit, with a very short clock before you deck yourself). I would not qualify Raise Dead in the same category as Commune with Nature because Commune with Nature only lets you search through 5 cards, whereas the number of cards available for Raise Dead is malleable based on the rest of the deck.
That still doesn't make Raise Dead a good card, and I wasn't really trying to compare Raise Dead to Aurochs Herd. Warren Pilferers is a more direct comparison given what you get in play and casting cost. I would say that Pilferers is a better card in a wider range of decks, but that Aurochs Herd is superior in a specific deck.
Of the listed cards I think Rhystic Study may be underplayed only because of its cost/rarity.
On Mystic/Demonic Tutors: tutoring is very different than a simple card selection ability like Commune with Nature or Raise Dead. And the big difference between Raise Dead and Aurochs Herd is that the former nets you a creature in hand, while the latter will also give you a 4/4 trampler in play. It’s card advantage.
As for my Herd/Woodreader comparison, I’d say it’s a little unfair of me, since you’re not using them for the same thing. Which is not to say I’d ever play it over Herd or Mulldrifter.
Good article :D
You know my favorite use for Wirewood Herald, is using him to get out a Ninja. Because NO ONE WILL EVER BLOCK HIM
I have run into Bequeathal, Shadow Rift (Wee Dragonauts storm), Rhystic Study, and Wirewood Herald in pauper decks. I run Auriok Glaivemaster in a white weenie equipment deck that is fun, but way too random to be a consistently successful deck.
Crown of Flames seems outdated by Fiery Mantle with its resilience.
Quicksilver Dagger could be fun on Slippery Bogle.
I have faced a Song of the Damned deck that fills the graveyard with creatures to power a huge Consume Spirit. It is a fragile, but interesting deck that can support Haunting Misery very nicely.
"I consider Raise Dead to be a skill testing card for new players – it’s important to learn that card advantage trumps card selection, and like the very comparable card Commune with Nature, Raise Dead is just limited card selection."
vs.
"Compare Citanul Woodreaders to Aurochs Herd: for the same price as the kicked Woodreaders you get +3/+0, Trample, and conditional pumping, but you only draw one card and that card is always another Aurochs. Sounds like a better deal to me."
By your first statement, the 2 card draw of Citanul Woodreaders is superior to the Auroch-search of Aurochs herd, but your second statement sounds as if the limited search ability of Aurochs herd is better. Aurochs Herd is really good in a specific deck and it trumps Citanul Woodreaders in that deck, but there are decks where Citanul Woodreaders is most definitely better than Aurochs Herd (granted, there are usually better options than the Woodreader for those decks).
Mystical Tutor and Demonic Tutor illustrate that card search can be just as desirable and powerful as raw card draw (ignoring Ancestral Recall for the moment). I agree that Raise Dead is a bad card, but I don't think the reason is as simple as card draw vs. card tutoring inequality. Raise Dead simply doesn't do enough to justify its inclusion in a deck, especially with Warren Pilferers around.
Thanks for the comments. I see that sloth in Magic means something different to everybody but next week I will once again present you a bunch of decks and I will raise the level of laziness with each deck. At the end I will enter a state where I will not even have the energy to win; instead my opponents will lose.
But we'll talk all that stuff next week.
Thanks again for the comments.
LE
Seems like a slothful strategy of wait for your opponent to kill him/herself has got to be done with giving them hurtful creatures and artifacts and enchanting their permanents with auras that ping. Also add in Manabarbs, Ankh of Mishra etc for punishing effects.
There's a comic? You are definitely more Vorthos than I.
I understand tapping creatures would be worksome, but isn't tapping mana to play the spells, shuffle deck (albeit virtually) and drawing cards too? ;)
I think you got the sloth wrong way. It sounds now that you are doing all the work when it should be your minions doing it? Or maybe you want to attempt easy victories with Coalition Victory, Biorhythm and the like, which would be lazy as well.
I liked this article.
Of these cards I see wrench mind played in serious formats occasionally. Recover, quicksilver dagger and desecrator hag I see quite often in casual games, and the rest probably never.
I have played citanul woodreaders in a 100 singleton deck, and it's really never a card I want to draw, just too slow against fast aggressive decks and too expensive against control. The lure of 2 more cards has been blinding me to how slow and limited it is on the battlefield. I have come to the conclusion that Kavu Climber is better all round, or in fact something better costed like Nessian Courser would come down earlier for offense/defense and make more of an impact on games.
Wall of Roots vs Vine Trellis - if you're not using the mana on your own turn then Vine Trellis is clearly superior to Wall of Roots. Just saying.
I love the flavor of Sarkhan's lack of +abilities. In the comic he's talking to himself and he says something like "Why am I guarding this empty place? What was I thinking when I pledged my loyalty to NB?" So he's going mad from isolation and self doubt.
How are you picking off Hypergenesis's creatures exactly? Smother, Bolt, and Firespout do nothing.
Not to mention the inability of your list to handle a Progenitus.
Enjoy casting spells off no lands or signets.
And no competent Hypergenesis pilot walks into negate/spell pierce postboard.
Your matchup "percentages" seem completely offhand with no strong supporting playtesting experience to support. You can't actually believe you can win against DDT 40% of the time.
Trying out new and interesting decks keeps the format alive and I support it fully. But posting bogus matchup analyses just seems both futile and counterproductive. Well written article otherwise, keep writing.
P.S. Both Ancient Grudge and Leyline of the Void see play. A fact you don't seem to take into account when you did matchups. Postboard games are important. Zoo will not just be all dudes postboard. They will bring in Negates, Meddling Mages, and other disruption. Similarly, DDT will have Leylines.
The Lust for Blood BYOS deck looks pretty darn good. I'll believe that it wins! But I'm also a sucker for Zoo decks. I also give Bleed For Me two thumbs up. Open the Vaults is such a cool card.
My comment about "just write about Jund" was a comment on how much everyone likes to talk about how much they hate that deck. Gluttony = Putrid Leech and the cascade mechanic. Anger = Blightning. Sloth = "I don't know what to play, I guess I'll play Jund." (Sloth is also = "I was lazy this week so here's an article on Jund" if you want to be meta like MaRo.) Envy = hating on Jund because it beats you (a non-Jund player) every week. Lust = Thrinax and more card advantage from cascade. But since you're not restricting yourself to Standard like I thought you were after week one, meh. Although good call with "Not Your Average Jund." This whole article was fun to read.
Sloth.... hm... are you building a Stasis lock? (Without Stasis, I know.) Or maybe a deck with Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Ivory Mask, Damping Field, and other defensive cards and then wait for your opponent to deck? That's borderline evil. Copper Tablet / Armageddon Clock are good slothy win conditions, although we don't have the Clock. Oh! Chains of Mephistopheles, Megrim, Anvil of Bogardan, and Howling Mine. With multiple Chains your opponent will never draw a card (and keep it) and they'll mill for a bunch each turn. I'm just guessing. You probably already have next week's deck already made.