Playing a deck in a main format means you aren't restricted towards the types of creatures played. This may seem like a small thing but it isn't. In addition while it was a tourney deck (so were many others that have appeared in tribal apoc, it was never top of the tiered decks. As much as I respect Manuel Bucher's deck building skills, he tends to build decks that are more fun than good. (For a pro that is.)
you actually already have 8 ways of dealing with firewalker and the deck does a pretty good job of racing them if you don't get one of those, especially with kargan. if you can't afford kargan try out the firehearts instead, but kargan has won me games vs vampires and firewalker decks that i wouldn't win otherwise.
also, chain reaction is sick vs vampires too. they tend to overextend. i have been taking out all chalices and 1 or 2 charger when i take out the ld package to make room for all of the rest. usually 12 cards are exchanged between main and sb on the matchups where ld doesn't matter.
i was planning on rhinos this week, but couldn't get the deck right in time so i brought fae even tho they are boring just so they could finally have their day at 3-0
Legendary Creatures
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Sorceries
3 Demonic Dread
3 Hypergenesis
Lands
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Pillar of the Paruns
2 Reflecting Pool
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
Legendary Lands
2 Gemstone Caverns
Stats:
Average mana: 3.20
Average creature mana cost: 6.68
Average creature power: 5.13
Average creature toughness: 5.13
I've been thinking about Lethal Vapors for a few days now since I read this article and believe your first approach with knights was the right one, just that you are a bit ahead of your time. I think it will work when Knight Exemplar is released in M11.
This deck is pretty brutal when the opponent is unprepared. The best strategy to beat it, I have found, is to kill the dopplegangers as soon as they get on board. It won't stop the vengvines, but having two vengevines in the graveyard and a doppleganger or two is pretty much game over. Hasty demons are pretty bad as well.
I was happily suprised with a 3-1 record and 2 of those wins vs. Storm. However, I dont think that 1 event is really representative of how the deck fairs in the metagame. I plan to do some testing against the other big players (Goblins, MUC, B/x control). I will say that I really missed the Gravediggers and Grim Discoveries in the original board when I was battling U/B control and MBCu. I think having Digger and perhaps Unearth (since all the creatures are 3cc or less) could really help the matchup. Also, Obsidian Acolyte could really help since it fights what is the bane of any deck sporting significant burn, Tendrils of Corruption. I must say, I was a little less than impressed with the Expedition. Against Storm, its pretty good since they have no blockers and you take out a 1/3 of their life when it hits. Against pretty much anything, that being decks sporting some form of removal, it kinda sucks. Im thinking Keldon Marauders may be a better fit in classic. It always gets there for at least 2, can trade with a lot of stuff, and only gets better with each Skyfisher you draw.
I watched part of one of your storm games last night before I hit the bar, I'm impressed that the deck did that well in classic with a few mods.
I salute you.
Agree on the harshness (which I think would have been offset if we got the original decklist again, or an extra report, but that has been said already as well). I think the point of the author wasn't that FoW sucks outright, but that the tempo swing of 2-for-1 is often a little too steep for the casual room - especially if it is part of a larger tourney build, where early tempo gains are stressed much more but sometimes lead to a hand burn-out in casual.
That being said, I definitely don't think "any random pile" can beat a lot of these tourney decks that come into the casual room. That's the whole issue people have with them "not being casual" - if it was such a walk in the park, people would laugh at them for not being casual, then proceed to utterly destroy them and send them back to the Tourney Practice room.
As it stands, sheer card quality in many of these decks is enough to see victory. Also, the most frequent tourney classic decks I see in casual are those that have a really fast clock but are especially susceptible to sideboard hate - dredge, charbelcher, ANT, leyline/helm. If these people opened Best 2/3 Matches it wouldn't be so bad - but they do a single-game hit-and-run without allowing any opportunity for reprisal - fostering easy wins. Even outside of these especially-vulnerable-to-SB decks, most tourney decks are extremely powerful without planned silver bullets in the deck. The fact that the author can reliably out-fight them without sinking to their level is worthy of note - but I would have liked to see more battles to really press the point home.
I encourage everyone who thinks it's easy to beat tournament decks in the casual room to really remember that statement the next time you're across from a tourney build. And to not concede, or complain, and see if you come out on top. I'm guessing it'll elicit the response "well of course my (random pile of cards) couldn't stand up to your $$$," even if you don't say it out loud.
Paul - have you tried Open the Vaults as a 1-2x? I could see a build with GWB with Vapors, where you could try a few umbras or some utility enchants as well. Reanimating all your Vapors means you can play them very aggressively at the get-go.
I am very happy to get the free product and don't want to seem ungrateful but have to admit there is a small part of me that is disappointed at the prize payout. I wrote this article because I thought these events would be firing constantly during the weekend but didn't consider that they would cut down on the prizes. I got all amped up to play these drafts and now I just may end up waiting until the Nix Tix as well.
The 9 Tix Alara Block drafts are a good deal and I wouldn't mind playing the Force of Will/Dual Land Lottery in the 12 tix MED drafts. All in all, I can't really complain.
And you're very vulnerable to a counterspell on Hypergenesis.
It's definitely an all your eggs in one basket approach, which usually means you either generate an overwhelming victory or die without doing much of anything.
Therefore, when it works, it looks a lot more powerful than it is....
If Ranth went 3-0 with it I'd be inclined to agree but the fact is the deck is very hit or miss. I have several variants and none I would consider a reasonable idea for competitive tourney play. It's just not good enough.
Well, I took the list into battle in TPDC last night. The only changes I made were -4 Burst Lightning +4 Firebolt main, and updated the sideboard for what I thought I might encounter in classic (MUC Fae, Affinity, Goblins, Stompy, Storm, and U/B control) 4 Martyr of Ashes 4 Pyroblast 4 Benevolent Unicorn 3 Doom Blade. I finished the night 3-1, dropping after round 4 due to it being after midnight est. I took down U/B control and 2 storm decks, losing to MBCu.
sad i missed it. Seems like hypergenisis could move from the watch to the ban list though. I can't really see how sneak attack isn't okay, but that isn't?
Playing a deck in a main format means you aren't restricted towards the types of creatures played. This may seem like a small thing but it isn't. In addition while it was a tourney deck (so were many others that have appeared in tribal apoc, it was never top of the tiered decks. As much as I respect Manuel Bucher's deck building skills, he tends to build decks that are more fun than good. (For a pro that is.)
I've seen a couple stax lists using Baneslayer instead of exalted, shame to see exalted lose a slot since it doesnt see much play these days
you actually already have 8 ways of dealing with firewalker and the deck does a pretty good job of racing them if you don't get one of those, especially with kargan. if you can't afford kargan try out the firehearts instead, but kargan has won me games vs vampires and firewalker decks that i wouldn't win otherwise.
also, chain reaction is sick vs vampires too. they tend to overextend. i have been taking out all chalices and 1 or 2 charger when i take out the ld package to make room for all of the rest. usually 12 cards are exchanged between main and sb on the matchups where ld doesn't matter.
i was planning on rhinos this week, but couldn't get the deck right in time so i brought fae even tho they are boring just so they could finally have their day at 3-0
Wasn't the Hyper Dragons deck and extended tournament deck a while back?
Hypergenesis
Suggested by Manuel Bucher on 2009-10-18 as a potential deck for Extended
As written about in http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/extended/18145_Positive_EV_Austin_Ext...
Print this deck!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Serum Powder
Artifact Creatures
4 Magister Sphinx
Creatures
4 Angel of Despair
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Hellkite Overlord
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantments
4 Ardent Plea
Instants
4 Violent Outburst
Legendary Creatures
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Sorceries
3 Demonic Dread
3 Hypergenesis
Lands
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Pillar of the Paruns
2 Reflecting Pool
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
Legendary Lands
2 Gemstone Caverns
Stats:
Average mana: 3.20
Average creature mana cost: 6.68
Average creature power: 5.13
Average creature toughness: 5.13
Deck Composition:
Artifacts: 6.67%
Artifact Creatures: 6.67%
Creatures: 26.67%
Enchantments: 6.67%
Instants: 6.67%
Lands: 30.00%
Legendary Creatures: 3.33%
Legendary Lands: 3.33%
Sorceries: 10.00%
I've been thinking about Lethal Vapors for a few days now since I read this article and believe your first approach with knights was the right one, just that you are a bit ahead of your time. I think it will work when Knight Exemplar is released in M11.
Yeah, I was kinda underwhelmed with the doppelgangers before testing them. It only took a couple games for it all to make sense XD
This deck is pretty brutal when the opponent is unprepared. The best strategy to beat it, I have found, is to kill the dopplegangers as soon as they get on board. It won't stop the vengvines, but having two vengevines in the graveyard and a doppleganger or two is pretty much game over. Hasty demons are pretty bad as well.
I was happily suprised with a 3-1 record and 2 of those wins vs. Storm. However, I dont think that 1 event is really representative of how the deck fairs in the metagame. I plan to do some testing against the other big players (Goblins, MUC, B/x control). I will say that I really missed the Gravediggers and Grim Discoveries in the original board when I was battling U/B control and MBCu. I think having Digger and perhaps Unearth (since all the creatures are 3cc or less) could really help the matchup. Also, Obsidian Acolyte could really help since it fights what is the bane of any deck sporting significant burn, Tendrils of Corruption. I must say, I was a little less than impressed with the Expedition. Against Storm, its pretty good since they have no blockers and you take out a 1/3 of their life when it hits. Against pretty much anything, that being decks sporting some form of removal, it kinda sucks. Im thinking Keldon Marauders may be a better fit in classic. It always gets there for at least 2, can trade with a lot of stuff, and only gets better with each Skyfisher you draw.
I watched part of one of your storm games last night before I hit the bar, I'm impressed that the deck did that well in classic with a few mods.
I salute you.
Agree on the harshness (which I think would have been offset if we got the original decklist again, or an extra report, but that has been said already as well). I think the point of the author wasn't that FoW sucks outright, but that the tempo swing of 2-for-1 is often a little too steep for the casual room - especially if it is part of a larger tourney build, where early tempo gains are stressed much more but sometimes lead to a hand burn-out in casual.
That being said, I definitely don't think "any random pile" can beat a lot of these tourney decks that come into the casual room. That's the whole issue people have with them "not being casual" - if it was such a walk in the park, people would laugh at them for not being casual, then proceed to utterly destroy them and send them back to the Tourney Practice room.
As it stands, sheer card quality in many of these decks is enough to see victory. Also, the most frequent tourney classic decks I see in casual are those that have a really fast clock but are especially susceptible to sideboard hate - dredge, charbelcher, ANT, leyline/helm. If these people opened Best 2/3 Matches it wouldn't be so bad - but they do a single-game hit-and-run without allowing any opportunity for reprisal - fostering easy wins. Even outside of these especially-vulnerable-to-SB decks, most tourney decks are extremely powerful without planned silver bullets in the deck. The fact that the author can reliably out-fight them without sinking to their level is worthy of note - but I would have liked to see more battles to really press the point home.
I encourage everyone who thinks it's easy to beat tournament decks in the casual room to really remember that statement the next time you're across from a tourney build. And to not concede, or complain, and see if you come out on top. I'm guessing it'll elicit the response "well of course my (random pile of cards) couldn't stand up to your $$$," even if you don't say it out loud.
Because ultimately, that response....is valid.
My deck can be found in this article.
I ran 10 cascade cards, the intention is to win on the turn Hypergenesis resolves. Otherwise you are asking for a beating next turn in tribal.
Yes the deck is vulnerable to counterspells but I've not seen many of those in the games I've played to see it as a major threat.
The best answer for MUC is Vulshok Sorcerer and/or Thunderbolt(s)
Paul - have you tried Open the Vaults as a 1-2x? I could see a build with GWB with Vapors, where you could try a few umbras or some utility enchants as well. Reanimating all your Vapors means you can play them very aggressively at the get-go.
I am very happy to get the free product and don't want to seem ungrateful but have to admit there is a small part of me that is disappointed at the prize payout. I wrote this article because I thought these events would be firing constantly during the weekend but didn't consider that they would cut down on the prizes. I got all amped up to play these drafts and now I just may end up waiting until the Nix Tix as well.
The 9 Tix Alara Block drafts are a good deal and I wouldn't mind playing the Force of Will/Dual Land Lottery in the 12 tix MED drafts. All in all, I can't really complain.
"Jace's Ingenuity is definitely a bad..."
Ouch, no, JI is AMAZING, that would be an error on my part meaning to allude to Jace's Erasure >.<
I hope MTGO will re do playable Avatar... that was an awesome part of release event.
And you're very vulnerable to a counterspell on Hypergenesis.
It's definitely an all your eggs in one basket approach, which usually means you either generate an overwhelming victory or die without doing much of anything.
Therefore, when it works, it looks a lot more powerful than it is....
Add to the fact that even after resolution you're not guaranteed a win. Against another high cost tribe especially.
Sort of, you did do well, but with Hypergenesis, you do need to actually draw a cascade spell...I forgot how many your ran, my build runs 9.
I beg to differ with the correct dragons and a good mana base it is a tournament winner as I have proved in the past.
If Ranth went 3-0 with it I'd be inclined to agree but the fact is the deck is very hit or miss. I have several variants and none I would consider a reasonable idea for competitive tourney play. It's just not good enough.
Well, I took the list into battle in TPDC last night. The only changes I made were -4 Burst Lightning +4 Firebolt main, and updated the sideboard for what I thought I might encounter in classic (MUC Fae, Affinity, Goblins, Stompy, Storm, and U/B control) 4 Martyr of Ashes 4 Pyroblast 4 Benevolent Unicorn 3 Doom Blade. I finished the night 3-1, dropping after round 4 due to it being after midnight est. I took down U/B control and 2 storm decks, losing to MBCu.
sad i missed it. Seems like hypergenisis could move from the watch to the ban list though. I can't really see how sneak attack isn't okay, but that isn't?
Reading is essential. (check the edit.)