I concur. Last time I really enjoyed standard was back when I was playing U/R urzatron, which is quite a few seasons ago now.I only ever play random casual junk online, but I'm almost done trading my way towards my first legacy deck in paper. I started out cheap with a deck I already owned almost all of, and just need a set of cabal therapy now.
I'd like to give time-spiral block a farewell by building some kind of deck featuring flagstones of trokair, urborg, smallpox and the B/W filter land. There's something deeply satisfying about that play every time you manage it.
One random thing that crossed my mind reading your article; did you ever consider playing the rack and mishra in the same deck? That sounds fun....!
So far the set looks interesting. I like Infect a lot. A Note about the mythic mox. If there turns out to be any really advantageous reason to sac artifacts it could wind up being a 4 of in some decks, which could be pretty annoying (like drop ravager drop mox get your mana, sac it drop your second mox ect) But otherwise pretty narrow use so not that big a deal so long as the artifact deck doesnt turn out to be standard and extended dominating. Oh and let me know if youre up for a second round of Heirloom skirmishing AJ. I feel like that first time you could have had a little more prep time to make for better games.
Search deviantart.com for examples but be ware. Not all the art displayed there is for public use. Look for art that says it is for public use to be sure.
Attempting to take someone's scalp for payment is scalping. Let is not get too caught up in the semantics of ticket sales where scalping has been basically legitimized. The term originally comes from the custom of some highway robbers practicing scalping to imitate native Americans in order to throw off blame.
The bottom line of the scalper is to take the buyer for all they are worth if possible (as in highway robbery in case you didn't make the connection.) Speculators tend to work towards a price point and while they are happy to sell higher than that point they are almost never going to want to sell below it. This does not automatically make them scalpers. It is when they attempt to corner the market or cause a shortfall (via hording or flooding) that they come under a bad light.
In a sense anyone who buys cards at all with the idea of selling them later at a profit is a speculator. You are gambling that the price will rise not fall.
Heath, being a dealer is an easy shot, because as much as we revere the almighty buck we tend to revile anyone who seeks to profit by it openly, in our society. Store owners have overhead, future earnings to consider. (Ongoing viability in business is as important as current profitability.)
If the road is going to be rocky ahead he needs to know that now. Which means in some senses yes he is a speculator in the same boat as mr "I am buying 400 of x card in the hopes that it jumps to 400% of it's current price so I can be suddenly richer". The difference is availability. The dealer makes cards available just in case someone wants them. They take a risk on margins and buffer that with volume. They don't corner the market. They don't need to. They have a built-in market comprised of their loyal customer base. As long as they keep that base happy they will have some safety from the perils of the fluctuation of prices. I think adding limits to the amount a single person can buy (well above the amounts needed by the average player) is a reasonable step towards ensuring this.
Sure. I would say that a Scalper is breaking a rule, while a Speculator is (worst case) breaking the market forces.
When you buy a ticket to a concert/sporting event/etc, there's a rule that you're not allowed to sell it for more than you paid. If you break this rule, even with only one ticket you'd been intending to use personally, that's scalping.
When you buy some commodity (cards from a dealer in this case), it's fully expected that you'd like to sell it for more. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem only arises if they do it a lot. If one acquires so much that availability to other people becomes sorely limited, then they have the potential to act like a monopoly. A monopoly seller doesn't have to compete with other suppliers so they sell as high as demand will allow them to.
A lot of places have backed down on punishing scalping, because these resellers have a vested interest in ultimately selling the tickets and putting butts in the seats, which is what the venue cares about in the first place. They just want to ensure no scalper has enough of a monopoly to ALSO play that speculator type role.
Speculators I think make easy targets, to the extent that 2 years ago many people openly complained about speculators but couldn't really explain what one was. In theory a speculator could do all the bad things a monopoly would do, without the "virtue" of actually producing anything. But that theory is often pretty far from reality, because buying so many to create a monopoly pressure is very difficult. Sometimes it's possible, but more often they were just smarter to get in before a price move and then they're blamed with causing something that they merely predicted.
And don't forget, in both cases the speculator/scalper is trying to ultimately sell as many as they buy. So they don't really change supply/demand. The key phrase is "underlying value" or "intrinsic value", and no trader can create that, they merely ride it.
I have to disagree with you here. I believe the standard meta is in great shape at this point in time with many viable decks. Mythic Conscription, Jund, Valakut Ramp, Titan Eldrazi, RDW, Fauna Shaman/Vengevine, Soul Sisters, Dredgevine, Pyromancer/polymorph are all competitive decks. I think the format is the healthiest it's been in a while. While I know the price of mythics are crazy, a few of these decks are budget friendly for someone who plans on playing in competitive standard tournaments. However, if you're not looking to play competitively, it is a lot of money to put into these cards.
Agreed the last time i liked standard at all was after the Kami/Rav Pro Tour Honolulu when decks like Hand-in-Hand, Beachhouse rock, Gruul, Heartbeat maga and others were everywhere. Its gone significantly downhill since. I know play a majority of Commander which is where all my money goes. So eventually I may try out 100cs.
I've already make a pair of cards. Just a few questions.
Do I have to register in the forum too?
Can I use mtg images for this? They fit well, and i'm sure i won't find any vedalken nor viridian anywhere.
Yep, I'm definitely happy with the decision. I recently sold off a few more Alara staples (with intent to rebuy) to fund a set of Wastelands, so I'm well on my way. Ironically, I again find myself in need of a set of Jace, which will give me the ability to play Standard if I choose, which is nice I guess. Stupid card being relevant in every constructed format... After him, it's all downhill as I start to collect duals.
Congrats on making the leap. Fowx4 Daze4 Standx4 = definitely the right direction as it commits you to legacy/classic. I am in agreement about standard as I can't remember a time in recent years it has been fun in a casual sense. Sure there is some interest in developing rogue brews that can stand up to deck du jour tech but mostly it is a drag to see the same inevitable strategies played out over and over and then yes when you've finally got a winner to see it rotate out soon. So I am totally with you with the buyout of standard and into eternal.
the 8 of rule is not hard and fast either. I have bought plenty of cards from mtgotraders in larger than 8x quantity. I got around 16 illusionary masks for 25 cents to 40 cents each and sold them for $1 each. Man, the big whopping like $10 I made was so bad for the market. Same like when I bought 75 foil textless lightning helix for 14 from another dealer and came out ahead by $3 when all was said and done. Most speculators are small time speculators like myself looking to make a few bucks here or there to buy more cards. I know I should have bought vengevines at $11 and lotus cobras at $8 in large quantity, and mutavaults at $7, but I can't afford that much $$. I am glad I have a few spare liches that are not getting traded until after scars.
It is not like the dopplegangers are really that expensive of a card. I really don't see the problem.
Also, try yourself some EDH. IT is awesome. Make sure to buy yourself a from the vault deck so you can get some staples.
Somebody buying 8 or 20 copies of a card is not a speculator, unless you are talking about power, black lotus, etc. This is a piker looking to turn a couple bucks into a couple more bucks. A real speculator would be buying up every single copy of a card on the market, which could very easily cause an increase in price, and for very good reason. If this is true, then the market is not sophisticated and is way too easy to exploit, and will continue to be exploited in this manner until it adjusts. The "value" of a card is what someone is willing to pay for it, the actual value of a card is linked directly to its rarity, and all rares have the same actual value, which is worthless. The amount that you as a consumer and the dealer or whomever is choosing to sell you the card agree upon is the intrinsic value of the card. If a dealer thought that he/she is getting ripped off they simply will choose to sell the card for a price higher than the "speculator" was willing to pay. Dealers are speculators in their own right, they buy cards for less and try to sell them for more, and while they serve a much broader purpose, speculators serve a purpose as well. Also lost in this conversation is the instances where a speculator would hoard a rare from dealers and the catalyst to move the card higher never happens, burning the speculator and leaving the dealer with his profits. Now the speculator has served a very nice purposes for the dealer, in buying up his/her entire stock of a card in short order (for the price that the dealer was advertising and willing to sell the card for) on a card that may have taken months to move if being moved at all. This is a collectible card game, if you want it to just be a card game then you have to take away the collectible nature of the game, and the game dies overnight.
I have to agree with you that the current Meta in standard is just not very interesting at all. I can't wait for the Scars rotation when all these decks like Jund, Mythic Con etc. all become redundant. Although a year from now we'll all be here complaining about the next overplayed meta decks! Casual standard is great fun but you wouldn't catch me near the tournament room. Competitive standard has become too focused on all the mythics like JMS, Primeval etc. - if you don't have access to these ridiculously priced cards you stand little to no chance competitively.
It's a shame really but I suppose otherwise nobody would buy boosters and wotc would make no money.
I concur. Last time I really enjoyed standard was back when I was playing U/R urzatron, which is quite a few seasons ago now.I only ever play random casual junk online, but I'm almost done trading my way towards my first legacy deck in paper. I started out cheap with a deck I already owned almost all of, and just need a set of cabal therapy now.
I'd like to give time-spiral block a farewell by building some kind of deck featuring flagstones of trokair, urborg, smallpox and the B/W filter land. There's something deeply satisfying about that play every time you manage it.
One random thing that crossed my mind reading your article; did you ever consider playing the rack and mishra in the same deck? That sounds fun....!
So far the set looks interesting. I like Infect a lot. A Note about the mythic mox. If there turns out to be any really advantageous reason to sac artifacts it could wind up being a 4 of in some decks, which could be pretty annoying (like drop ravager drop mox get your mana, sac it drop your second mox ect) But otherwise pretty narrow use so not that big a deal so long as the artifact deck doesnt turn out to be standard and extended dominating. Oh and let me know if youre up for a second round of Heirloom skirmishing AJ. I feel like that first time you could have had a little more prep time to make for better games.
Xaoslegend-
Search deviantart.com for examples but be ware. Not all the art displayed there is for public use. Look for art that says it is for public use to be sure.
Where u get the card images from? not to hot on the paintshopping stuff as i got 2 kick arse sure winning cards :)
Attempting to take someone's scalp for payment is scalping. Let is not get too caught up in the semantics of ticket sales where scalping has been basically legitimized. The term originally comes from the custom of some highway robbers practicing scalping to imitate native Americans in order to throw off blame.
The bottom line of the scalper is to take the buyer for all they are worth if possible (as in highway robbery in case you didn't make the connection.) Speculators tend to work towards a price point and while they are happy to sell higher than that point they are almost never going to want to sell below it. This does not automatically make them scalpers. It is when they attempt to corner the market or cause a shortfall (via hording or flooding) that they come under a bad light.
In a sense anyone who buys cards at all with the idea of selling them later at a profit is a speculator. You are gambling that the price will rise not fall.
Heath, being a dealer is an easy shot, because as much as we revere the almighty buck we tend to revile anyone who seeks to profit by it openly, in our society. Store owners have overhead, future earnings to consider. (Ongoing viability in business is as important as current profitability.)
If the road is going to be rocky ahead he needs to know that now. Which means in some senses yes he is a speculator in the same boat as mr "I am buying 400 of x card in the hopes that it jumps to 400% of it's current price so I can be suddenly richer". The difference is availability. The dealer makes cards available just in case someone wants them. They take a risk on margins and buffer that with volume. They don't corner the market. They don't need to. They have a built-in market comprised of their loyal customer base. As long as they keep that base happy they will have some safety from the perils of the fluctuation of prices. I think adding limits to the amount a single person can buy (well above the amounts needed by the average player) is a reasonable step towards ensuring this.
Sure. I would say that a Scalper is breaking a rule, while a Speculator is (worst case) breaking the market forces.
When you buy a ticket to a concert/sporting event/etc, there's a rule that you're not allowed to sell it for more than you paid. If you break this rule, even with only one ticket you'd been intending to use personally, that's scalping.
When you buy some commodity (cards from a dealer in this case), it's fully expected that you'd like to sell it for more. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem only arises if they do it a lot. If one acquires so much that availability to other people becomes sorely limited, then they have the potential to act like a monopoly. A monopoly seller doesn't have to compete with other suppliers so they sell as high as demand will allow them to.
A lot of places have backed down on punishing scalping, because these resellers have a vested interest in ultimately selling the tickets and putting butts in the seats, which is what the venue cares about in the first place. They just want to ensure no scalper has enough of a monopoly to ALSO play that speculator type role.
Speculators I think make easy targets, to the extent that 2 years ago many people openly complained about speculators but couldn't really explain what one was. In theory a speculator could do all the bad things a monopoly would do, without the "virtue" of actually producing anything. But that theory is often pretty far from reality, because buying so many to create a monopoly pressure is very difficult. Sometimes it's possible, but more often they were just smarter to get in before a price move and then they're blamed with causing something that they merely predicted.
And don't forget, in both cases the speculator/scalper is trying to ultimately sell as many as they buy. So they don't really change supply/demand. The key phrase is "underlying value" or "intrinsic value", and no trader can create that, they merely ride it.
I have to disagree with you here. I believe the standard meta is in great shape at this point in time with many viable decks. Mythic Conscription, Jund, Valakut Ramp, Titan Eldrazi, RDW, Fauna Shaman/Vengevine, Soul Sisters, Dredgevine, Pyromancer/polymorph are all competitive decks. I think the format is the healthiest it's been in a while. While I know the price of mythics are crazy, a few of these decks are budget friendly for someone who plans on playing in competitive standard tournaments. However, if you're not looking to play competitively, it is a lot of money to put into these cards.
Agreed the last time i liked standard at all was after the Kami/Rav Pro Tour Honolulu when decks like Hand-in-Hand, Beachhouse rock, Gruul, Heartbeat maga and others were everywhere. Its gone significantly downhill since. I know play a majority of Commander which is where all my money goes. So eventually I may try out 100cs.
we prefer non-recycled artwork and yes you do have to register on the forums.
I've already make a pair of cards. Just a few questions.
Do I have to register in the forum too?
Can I use mtg images for this? They fit well, and i'm sure i won't find any vedalken nor viridian anywhere.
Hey!..... Yeah, it is XD
Yep, I'm definitely happy with the decision. I recently sold off a few more Alara staples (with intent to rebuy) to fund a set of Wastelands, so I'm well on my way. Ironically, I again find myself in need of a set of Jace, which will give me the ability to play Standard if I choose, which is nice I guess. Stupid card being relevant in every constructed format... After him, it's all downhill as I start to collect duals.
I said it last week and i will say it again. Soul sisters is a truly horrible deck.
Congrats on winning, good luck judging :)
Congrats on making the leap. Fowx4 Daze4 Standx4 = definitely the right direction as it commits you to legacy/classic. I am in agreement about standard as I can't remember a time in recent years it has been fun in a casual sense. Sure there is some interest in developing rogue brews that can stand up to deck du jour tech but mostly it is a drag to see the same inevitable strategies played out over and over and then yes when you've finally got a winner to see it rotate out soon. So I am totally with you with the buyout of standard and into eternal.
Yep, with 4x Grim Monolith and 4x Tinker the win was Platinum Angel. Get her out, then the Scepter and win!
the 8 of rule is not hard and fast either. I have bought plenty of cards from mtgotraders in larger than 8x quantity. I got around 16 illusionary masks for 25 cents to 40 cents each and sold them for $1 each. Man, the big whopping like $10 I made was so bad for the market. Same like when I bought 75 foil textless lightning helix for 14 from another dealer and came out ahead by $3 when all was said and done. Most speculators are small time speculators like myself looking to make a few bucks here or there to buy more cards. I know I should have bought vengevines at $11 and lotus cobras at $8 in large quantity, and mutavaults at $7, but I can't afford that much $$. I am glad I have a few spare liches that are not getting traded until after scars.
It is not like the dopplegangers are really that expensive of a card. I really don't see the problem.
Also, try yourself some EDH. IT is awesome. Make sure to buy yourself a from the vault deck so you can get some staples.
platinum angel is the answer to the final fortune problem
I love decks with Cat Warriors. I say the more cats, the more likely the victory!
Somebody buying 8 or 20 copies of a card is not a speculator, unless you are talking about power, black lotus, etc. This is a piker looking to turn a couple bucks into a couple more bucks. A real speculator would be buying up every single copy of a card on the market, which could very easily cause an increase in price, and for very good reason. If this is true, then the market is not sophisticated and is way too easy to exploit, and will continue to be exploited in this manner until it adjusts. The "value" of a card is what someone is willing to pay for it, the actual value of a card is linked directly to its rarity, and all rares have the same actual value, which is worthless. The amount that you as a consumer and the dealer or whomever is choosing to sell you the card agree upon is the intrinsic value of the card. If a dealer thought that he/she is getting ripped off they simply will choose to sell the card for a price higher than the "speculator" was willing to pay. Dealers are speculators in their own right, they buy cards for less and try to sell them for more, and while they serve a much broader purpose, speculators serve a purpose as well. Also lost in this conversation is the instances where a speculator would hoard a rare from dealers and the catalyst to move the card higher never happens, burning the speculator and leaving the dealer with his profits. Now the speculator has served a very nice purposes for the dealer, in buying up his/her entire stock of a card in short order (for the price that the dealer was advertising and willing to sell the card for) on a card that may have taken months to move if being moved at all. This is a collectible card game, if you want it to just be a card game then you have to take away the collectible nature of the game, and the game dies overnight.
I have to agree with you that the current Meta in standard is just not very interesting at all. I can't wait for the Scars rotation when all these decks like Jund, Mythic Con etc. all become redundant. Although a year from now we'll all be here complaining about the next overplayed meta decks! Casual standard is great fun but you wouldn't catch me near the tournament room. Competitive standard has become too focused on all the mythics like JMS, Primeval etc. - if you don't have access to these ridiculously priced cards you stand little to no chance competitively.
It's a shame really but I suppose otherwise nobody would buy boosters and wotc would make no money.
Ok, I gotta know. How DO you win the game with a Final Fortune on an Isochron Scepter? Do you have another Scepter with a Stifle in it, or something?
You're absolutely right... That does come off as trolling... >:{
Just want to say thanks to everyone that showed up for our first weekly Heirloom event on 9/5/10 here. I had a great time.
Links to more detail about the event here with cardlinks: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5771777#post5771777 here to stay on puremtgo: http://puremtgo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1996&sid=e3ccd2787670e184...
Xaoslegend-