Mythic rarity has just made the game more expensive than it needs to be, but I really don't think its going anywhere. Wizards is obviously going to print cards people really want at mythic rarity because that sells packs. The more people seem to just accept $75+ standard cards as normal, the less wizards needs to fear printing must-haves in the mythic slot. I have to agree with you, as $300 dollars for a playset of a standard card is absurd. People vote with their wallets though, and they don't seem to have much of an issue with mythics considering they still play the game.
Personally I've disliked mythics since their release. Some of the best staples in the game are getting printed at mythic and that's just making magic unaffordable to a lot of players.
There needs to be an easy way for people to play casual and competitive to really get that lifelong hook into magic and mythic seems like a way to get more money out of players that already are hooked but that will diminish new recruitment in the future.
I could certianly be wrong about this, but intuitively that's how it would seem to work to me. Right now magic is enjoying the benefits of having video games introduce people to the format, which is counteracting this I think.
I think if they didn't print cards that were good as 3-4 ofs in a lot of decks it would be alot healthier for magic. (IE Vengevine, 4cc and lower good planeswalkers, Baneslayer angel, ect are just exploitative of the rarity system on magic players)
Mox Opal doesnt bother me too much so far, since its use is narrowed to artifact decks. So long as those dont become a massive part of the magic metagame it should be ok in value.
I like the Momir Vig format. there seems to be more strategy to it then one might think. Nice to see an article on it. One thing I want to point out, and I will quote first:
"It's the year 2010 - everyone knows about the idea of card advantage....it says that drawing more cards than your opponent will usually lead to victory."
I want to point out that card advantage is not just about drawing cards and discarding cards. Some cards give you card advantage because of the options they provide you.
Good article. I think you did a solid job of differentiating between utilitarian and staple.
If WotC reprints the Artifact Lands in Scars of Mirrodin, how much does that up the value and playability of Mox Opal?
I wish you had gone into more of a comparison of why Mox Opal is not a utility card but dual Lands are since that is an example of a Utility card provided in the MaRo article. Personally, I think that Mox Opal is just as utilitarian as dual lands. The Opal provides broader color fixing than a mere dual land. It has equivalent constraints in my opinion as Mox Opal requires artifact usage (a deck building constraint) while dual lands only work for certain color pairs and actual dual lands (not sac and search) have recently been limited to allied colors.
Enjoyable read of an interesting topic. This reasonning is clear and I would agree on many points. My opinion is that the mox is currently very underestimated.
In Vintage, in legacy and even in extend, there already are some decks in which this opal could well fit in. And in standard, we dont get a full view of SoM set but I wouldnt be surprised if it becomes more than playable in an environement where we could find cards like basilic collar, the new bonesplitter, the new CMC0 1/1 artifact creature, needles, stoneforge mystics, chalices, voltaic keys and some others. All of these cards are pretty cheap to cast and seems well playable. And we even dont know the full spoiler (of the first set of the block) ...but if ever WotC put the artifact lands back at a moment ... you see what i mean. I also believe that even if frustating, to put it legendary isnt a bad idea. Firstly it is its only real "drawback", and secondly I think it would be have been very powerfull to almost broken to let them play simultaneously. Regarding play health as well, but also regarding price & acessibility.
Good article and good style ... maybe just a bit more pictures next time
Even still. In pre-mythic times, Chrome Mox didn't see play in every deck, and current mythics don't see play in every deck. I'm 100% sure Mox Opal will see play, but it's not like every deck's going to want to use it. As it currently stands, not a single Standard deck wants/can use this card. Post rotation, you'll still a pretty O.O opening 7 to get instant value out of it. Obviously we need to see the full spoiler to know for sure, but even with some pretty generous speculation I still don't like the card in Standard. Is it really so far fetched that WotC printed a Mox for the sake of flavor, rather than power?
Im having a very hard time imagining WotC making a mythic mox that isn't going to see heavy play at least in standard...but we wont know until we have a complete spoiler
Making a 0 drop used to be a good ploy, you'd often make a Dryad Arbor. The odds have dropped since they published a bunch of worthless kobolds in med3.
oh and this build made the mana change a lot, i took out forests for mountains and added one island since shared discovery can be played early and the sideboard has blue
I made this deck and had the same problem as lythand. mysteries was good but then i tried shared discovery and never looked back... its insane, but it also means more tokens so plus brood birthing, and less fatties so no crushers. taking out the crushers leaves you with less win conditions so i added some hissing iguanars. i also cut the burst lightning for staggershock, basically because it two for ones. now I'm testing with MotM to see if thats a better win condition but my thinking is if you have that many tokens you should win anyways. I ended up cutting growth spasm completely to get more threats but i still dont know if the deck is better off that way.
I can't claim to be an expert on vendor pricing but other than players selling their own cards and packs I have only on a couple occasions seen lower prices at another bot on a card I wanted (though I don't usually buy top singles so there may be a difference there I'm less familiar with)
Certainly the completeness of the Mtgotraders library is one thing that makes Heirloom possible and manageable.
No problem. We all only have so much time to get all the things we want to do done. I remember when Myojins ruled the casual tables, it'll be fun to see them in tournaments again. I look forward to seeing you there.
Thanks again for your support and for the competition. I should have the legal list up today which will let me get back to writing the second article and posting some youtube videos of last week's tournament and start to get the next mtgotraders article submitted.
In many ways Mtgotraders is a large supporter of the format by posting the articles and having a great search engine for looking up cards(I won't say no to more of course...) The greatest support for the format is always going to be just playing it and encouraging others to play.
Good article, I enjoyed it, but my view on the Mox hasn't changed. Let it be Mythic. Honestly, if it was a good card that could go in any deck and not have damning restrictions, I think it would have been a rare. As it it, it's VERY restrictive, will NOT see play in many decks, and I just don't think it's a very good card all around. Make it Legendary, give it a good chunk of lore, and let it be Mythic.
Also, they are pushing the mythic nostalgia thing quite a bit in Scars. If we had 4 nostalgia mythics in the last 2 years, we have at least 3 in scars by itself: Mox Opal, Mindslaver, and the new Platinum Robot guy. Now you'll hear no argument from me that Mindslaver is a cut-and-dry mythic, as it meets about all those requirements, and since Plat. Angel became mythic I guess Platinum robot makes sense as a mythic too, but moxen with drawbacks are simply not all that exciting, and should not be the kind of card that R&D wants at mythic. I think zero cost mana producers fall too much into the utility category to make having them at mythic reasonable from a cost perspective. I know WotC allegedly does not really care about the secondary market, but they should have enough respect for their customers to understand that (if it turn out lots of decks need the mox to be competitive) that the end result will be astronomical prices. I don't mind having to shell out for a jace 2.0 every now and then, but if utility mana producers go to mythic then this whole thing is getting out of hand. To me, the new mox is similar to the ravnica duals. A worse version of something powerful from the past...and Rosewater said that they would not put duals at mythic...so why the mox?
I completely agree with this article.
I knew the Mox would be mythic, and agree that the name/history involved excites the playerbase. That has to be why people actually spent 30 bucks for Reversal, right?
Very well spoken, thought out arguments to silence the continuous, repetitive complaints that come up every set.
I fully agree with you on the "evocative of uniquely powerful cards of the past" category of mythic cards. If Mox Opal wouldn't have the word "Mox" in its name, it wouldn't feel mythic. And as you said, R&D already tried this category with Time Warp (although that card has been around as a regular rare before) and Time Reversal.
But Mox Opal is not the third utility mythic, it's the fourth. See: Lotus Cobra. That card wouldn't feel half as mythic if it wouldn't carry "Lotus" in its name - Black Lotus evokes even more nostalgic feelings than the Moxen (and remember, R&D tried to design a fixed Lotus more than once, just as they tried with the Moxen).
at first i would like to thank xaoslegend for all the work he is doing! He introduced me top a format, that sets a standard for me! U get all the mechanics of all sets printed up to now to create creative decks that have a deep stragey level. For the cost of 1 single played standard Rare, u geta whole competitive deck!
Thx for the first funny matches we had!
looking forward to play more and the tournament on Saturday!
Maybe u can get mtgotraders as a support, while promoting the side all the way with heirloom!
I actually like the Reassembling Skeleton in pack 1, as I think he's a very powerful card that can combo nicely with various other things, and if you don't get them he still makes a decent wall to blank out their best attacker for 2 mana a turn and buy you a lot of time. But I can't argue with taking the one card in the set's best color and sending a strong signal, either.
I did look at the pick 2 Bloodthrone Vampire and smile at how well he woulda gone with pick 1 skeleton. Though of course even then I'd never take him over Crystal Ball!
It's not that hard to put a deck together actually. Xaoslegend, I praise all the work your doing for this format, sorry I couldn't play the last tournament, was trying to figure out how to get a myojin into play early (why is fist of suns not cheaper) - I have a deck ready now anyway.
Mythic rarity has just made the game more expensive than it needs to be, but I really don't think its going anywhere. Wizards is obviously going to print cards people really want at mythic rarity because that sells packs. The more people seem to just accept $75+ standard cards as normal, the less wizards needs to fear printing must-haves in the mythic slot. I have to agree with you, as $300 dollars for a playset of a standard card is absurd. People vote with their wallets though, and they don't seem to have much of an issue with mythics considering they still play the game.
Personally I've disliked mythics since their release. Some of the best staples in the game are getting printed at mythic and that's just making magic unaffordable to a lot of players.
There needs to be an easy way for people to play casual and competitive to really get that lifelong hook into magic and mythic seems like a way to get more money out of players that already are hooked but that will diminish new recruitment in the future.
I could certianly be wrong about this, but intuitively that's how it would seem to work to me. Right now magic is enjoying the benefits of having video games introduce people to the format, which is counteracting this I think.
I think if they didn't print cards that were good as 3-4 ofs in a lot of decks it would be alot healthier for magic. (IE Vengevine, 4cc and lower good planeswalkers, Baneslayer angel, ect are just exploitative of the rarity system on magic players)
Mox Opal doesnt bother me too much so far, since its use is narrowed to artifact decks. So long as those dont become a massive part of the magic metagame it should be ok in value.
Xaoslegend-
Thanks guys.
I am registered but it is probably easier to email me at mrmorale32@yahoo.com.
Momir basic is certianly a favorite of mine, simple, even chance to succeed, it's almost like a boardgame version of magic.
I've always wanted to give this format a try. It looks really fun, but I can't bring myself to buy an avatar for 8.50 >.<
Another great article.
By the way leviathan, I need to contact you. Are you registered in the forums?
I like the Momir Vig format. there seems to be more strategy to it then one might think. Nice to see an article on it. One thing I want to point out, and I will quote first:
"It's the year 2010 - everyone knows about the idea of card advantage....it says that drawing more cards than your opponent will usually lead to victory."
I want to point out that card advantage is not just about drawing cards and discarding cards. Some cards give you card advantage because of the options they provide you.
Good article. I think you did a solid job of differentiating between utilitarian and staple.
If WotC reprints the Artifact Lands in Scars of Mirrodin, how much does that up the value and playability of Mox Opal?
I wish you had gone into more of a comparison of why Mox Opal is not a utility card but dual Lands are since that is an example of a Utility card provided in the MaRo article. Personally, I think that Mox Opal is just as utilitarian as dual lands. The Opal provides broader color fixing than a mere dual land. It has equivalent constraints in my opinion as Mox Opal requires artifact usage (a deck building constraint) while dual lands only work for certain color pairs and actual dual lands (not sac and search) have recently been limited to allied colors.
Enjoyable read of an interesting topic. This reasonning is clear and I would agree on many points. My opinion is that the mox is currently very underestimated.
In Vintage, in legacy and even in extend, there already are some decks in which this opal could well fit in. And in standard, we dont get a full view of SoM set but I wouldnt be surprised if it becomes more than playable in an environement where we could find cards like basilic collar, the new bonesplitter, the new CMC0 1/1 artifact creature, needles, stoneforge mystics, chalices, voltaic keys and some others. All of these cards are pretty cheap to cast and seems well playable. And we even dont know the full spoiler (of the first set of the block) ...but if ever WotC put the artifact lands back at a moment ... you see what i mean. I also believe that even if frustating, to put it legendary isnt a bad idea. Firstly it is its only real "drawback", and secondly I think it would be have been very powerfull to almost broken to let them play simultaneously. Regarding play health as well, but also regarding price & acessibility.
Good article and good style ... maybe just a bit more pictures next time
Even still. In pre-mythic times, Chrome Mox didn't see play in every deck, and current mythics don't see play in every deck. I'm 100% sure Mox Opal will see play, but it's not like every deck's going to want to use it. As it currently stands, not a single Standard deck wants/can use this card. Post rotation, you'll still a pretty O.O opening 7 to get instant value out of it. Obviously we need to see the full spoiler to know for sure, but even with some pretty generous speculation I still don't like the card in Standard. Is it really so far fetched that WotC printed a Mox for the sake of flavor, rather than power?
Im having a very hard time imagining WotC making a mythic mox that isn't going to see heavy play at least in standard...but we wont know until we have a complete spoiler
I concur. Unless there is something specific we don't know about upcoming sets that breaks it, it lacks luster. That isn't to say it won't have uses.
Making a 0 drop used to be a good ploy, you'd often make a Dryad Arbor. The odds have dropped since they published a bunch of worthless kobolds in med3.
oh and this build made the mana change a lot, i took out forests for mountains and added one island since shared discovery can be played early and the sideboard has blue
I made this deck and had the same problem as lythand. mysteries was good but then i tried shared discovery and never looked back... its insane, but it also means more tokens so plus brood birthing, and less fatties so no crushers. taking out the crushers leaves you with less win conditions so i added some hissing iguanars. i also cut the burst lightning for staggershock, basically because it two for ones. now I'm testing with MotM to see if thats a better win condition but my thinking is if you have that many tokens you should win anyways. I ended up cutting growth spasm completely to get more threats but i still dont know if the deck is better off that way.
Hey Etriol,
I can't claim to be an expert on vendor pricing but other than players selling their own cards and packs I have only on a couple occasions seen lower prices at another bot on a card I wanted (though I don't usually buy top singles so there may be a difference there I'm less familiar with)
Certainly the completeness of the Mtgotraders library is one thing that makes Heirloom possible and manageable.
Xaoslegend-
Hey Feastoftheunicorn,
No problem. We all only have so much time to get all the things we want to do done. I remember when Myojins ruled the casual tables, it'll be fun to see them in tournaments again. I look forward to seeing you there.
Xaoslegend-
(Just remember it's Saturday this week)
Hey Nagarjuna,
Thanks again for your support and for the competition. I should have the legal list up today which will let me get back to writing the second article and posting some youtube videos of last week's tournament and start to get the next mtgotraders article submitted.
In many ways Mtgotraders is a large supporter of the format by posting the articles and having a great search engine for looking up cards(I won't say no to more of course...) The greatest support for the format is always going to be just playing it and encouraging others to play.
Thanks again,
Xaoslegend-
Good article, I enjoyed it, but my view on the Mox hasn't changed. Let it be Mythic. Honestly, if it was a good card that could go in any deck and not have damning restrictions, I think it would have been a rare. As it it, it's VERY restrictive, will NOT see play in many decks, and I just don't think it's a very good card all around. Make it Legendary, give it a good chunk of lore, and let it be Mythic.
Also, they are pushing the mythic nostalgia thing quite a bit in Scars. If we had 4 nostalgia mythics in the last 2 years, we have at least 3 in scars by itself: Mox Opal, Mindslaver, and the new Platinum Robot guy. Now you'll hear no argument from me that Mindslaver is a cut-and-dry mythic, as it meets about all those requirements, and since Plat. Angel became mythic I guess Platinum robot makes sense as a mythic too, but moxen with drawbacks are simply not all that exciting, and should not be the kind of card that R&D wants at mythic. I think zero cost mana producers fall too much into the utility category to make having them at mythic reasonable from a cost perspective. I know WotC allegedly does not really care about the secondary market, but they should have enough respect for their customers to understand that (if it turn out lots of decks need the mox to be competitive) that the end result will be astronomical prices. I don't mind having to shell out for a jace 2.0 every now and then, but if utility mana producers go to mythic then this whole thing is getting out of hand. To me, the new mox is similar to the ravnica duals. A worse version of something powerful from the past...and Rosewater said that they would not put duals at mythic...so why the mox?
I completely agree with this article.
I knew the Mox would be mythic, and agree that the name/history involved excites the playerbase. That has to be why people actually spent 30 bucks for Reversal, right?
Very well spoken, thought out arguments to silence the continuous, repetitive complaints that come up every set.
Hi there,
great article, pleasure to read.
I fully agree with you on the "evocative of uniquely powerful cards of the past" category of mythic cards. If Mox Opal wouldn't have the word "Mox" in its name, it wouldn't feel mythic. And as you said, R&D already tried this category with Time Warp (although that card has been around as a regular rare before) and Time Reversal.
But Mox Opal is not the third utility mythic, it's the fourth. See: Lotus Cobra. That card wouldn't feel half as mythic if it wouldn't carry "Lotus" in its name - Black Lotus evokes even more nostalgic feelings than the Moxen (and remember, R&D tried to design a fixed Lotus more than once, just as they tried with the Moxen).
--T.
Hey there,
at first i would like to thank xaoslegend for all the work he is doing! He introduced me top a format, that sets a standard for me! U get all the mechanics of all sets printed up to now to create creative decks that have a deep stragey level. For the cost of 1 single played standard Rare, u geta whole competitive deck!
Thx for the first funny matches we had!
looking forward to play more and the tournament on Saturday!
Maybe u can get mtgotraders as a support, while promoting the side all the way with heirloom!
Best wishes
I actually like the Reassembling Skeleton in pack 1, as I think he's a very powerful card that can combo nicely with various other things, and if you don't get them he still makes a decent wall to blank out their best attacker for 2 mana a turn and buy you a lot of time. But I can't argue with taking the one card in the set's best color and sending a strong signal, either.
I did look at the pick 2 Bloodthrone Vampire and smile at how well he woulda gone with pick 1 skeleton. Though of course even then I'd never take him over Crystal Ball!
It's not that hard to put a deck together actually. Xaoslegend, I praise all the work your doing for this format, sorry I couldn't play the last tournament, was trying to figure out how to get a myojin into play early (why is fist of suns not cheaper) - I have a deck ready now anyway.