Ya with a flipper from hands, we can do.. wait I got something wrong there, oh well I'll figure it out later.
As always your enthusiasm and participation are great, maybe you could start promoting it soon once we get the particulars down as well, (website posts ect)
I know you 4-0ed in the SOM sealed, but apart from opening a superb package, I'm very confused why you didn't run a BGr poison deck. It's just obvious, but it might be only me.
I think you have to be fairly dedicated to him, but if you are he's great, but I'm not such a fan of running him as a random extra "good with artifacts" guy. and you want like 20 zero and 1 cc artifacts for him to be worth it.
to me Vedalken Archmage was a little slow, holding your 0 drops until he hits the board AND he is the target for every removal spell as well. But if he is on, its a really solid drawengine here.
I think having chase Mythics + reasonable Rares is much worse than having expensive Rares.
1. You can't trade for them. Having to trade 20-some odd Fetchlands for a JMS just feels wrong. This of course, is much easier to do online than in paper.
2. It discourages people from opening packs and instead prices them out of the format. With Ravinca-Ravnica-Guildpack and Ravnica-Guildpack-Dissension, the odds of opening a nice money rare, i.e. bop/bob/char/hierarch/rav dual were decent, and the odds of opening a dual land from the latter two sets were still decent, so it encouraged drafting and the busting of packs. You could 2-3 drafts or bust a dozen packs in hopes of getting that Hallowed Fountain you needed. But the new sets are horrible. You could bust a dozen packs and easily not find a chase Mythic. Moreover, that rare + 3 unc + 11 commons you spent $4 for are now likely worth $0.25 to a bot =/
Of course, people are addicted to drafting by now, and in the short term, I guess people have shown a willingness to just shell out to dealers for the high-priced Mythics. I don't know if people can keep this up in the long term though.
that's just like saying that the internet exists and you can post stuff there lol.
The PRE community has come up with solutions but I'm not going to award wizards credit for putting one forum up among their hundreds of forums so that if you look long enough you can find it.
In practice it's a huge handicap not to have something in game and to be flamed by ORCs for discussing PREs in regular chat channels.
Geth is pretty sweet for sure, a bit on the pricey side but certianly dragon-like in that if you untap with him or have a bunch of xtra mana after you play him things are going to go badly for your enemies.
Not sure that Koth is going to get monored over the top in commander, maybe with some trickey deckbuilding so that you have some combo and staying power.
Skith seems a little cheesy atm, they need to fix it so 20 poison counters are needed.
I wasn't suggesting that you would run the same deck only querying whether you would be successful doing so or more likely to succeed with something fresh. I think either approach has it's merits.
Why don't we go for standard first then, keep the mechanics involved a little lower and use cards that are familiar to more people? (seems like there should be more than 104 cards from shards legal though, a quick advanced search shows that just in reborn there are more than 175 that would be legal if their legality were set right now and I don't think prices have changes that much that systemically to go from more than 500 in the block to only 104)
So this would be like an Heirloom limited league then right? you can play it whenever you find an opponent? how does that usually work? Details to be worked out before execution to be sure, but I like the idea of an anytime league that lets people play during the week between constructed events.
Since there seems to be an issue using the excel list for this I suppose some other solution may have to be crafted, let me know what more you'll need from me to get that working and what you think about the mechanics of a league.
Actually I think this is a perfect next step for Heirloom, first the constructed event now the limited league.
*we'll certianly have to keep track of who has what in their pool of course right?
who says i would use the same deck i mean it doesnt seem to work what wins one week in this seems to almost be in last place the next week. but either way i guess if it comes down to skill and no luck i am at a huge disadvantage.:P
There are legal reasons why Wizards is not friendly towards PREs. Just as there are typically legal reasons for most of the things they do the player majority dislikes.
Koth and Elspeth are not married in official storyline, this is purely a development on their respective Facebook and Twitter feeds. The lines of fantasy and reality are blurring... I think I need to lie down...
I think your pool for Block is a bit small, I just had a look at Shards of Alara block and in the spreadsheet there are only 104 cards. I think Std or Extended sounds best. Classic is a possibility or Legacy but would require quite a bit of work as the spreadsheet is not very user friendly for what I need as the set and rarity are in the same column.
It's all possible though just let me know what you want to do and I'll build the pool ready for deck generation.
I'll change the rarity of Mythics to rare and see how it goes.
Once you decide on your format any players wanting their booster contents can just pm me via the wizards forum (same name ((with Heirloom in the subject)) and I'll send them back their pack contents.
I think the Mirroden Coalition league will be awesome. I won my prerelease flight last week and opened 5 of the packs already for my pool and I cracked an Elspeth. I think she is the best planeswalker of the three for limited, so I am pumped. I will be looking for you to see if I can take you down :)
My initial thought about dissipation field was similar to yours but I have noticed a lot of ETB critters recently. I also got wrecked by molten psyche today, that is fun against control. Good stuff.
I like the idea of starting with sealed even though draft is my truer passion, with draft we'd have to have a program other than mtgo then import decklists in, so obviously that would be a bit of a hassle.
The proportion of mythics to other rarities would have to be decreased I think since there are so few mythics in Heirloom (like 15) and including too many in the sealed pools seems a little repetitive with them being the same card all the time. If they were just counted as rare they would probably show up uncommonly enough to make sense.
I'll try to figure out a day we can run that event and we can go from there, question is do we do SOM block, Standard sealed, classic ect? given enough warning people can let us know what their opinion of included sets aught to be(I'm thinking either block, standard, or classic as the three choices).
I've looked into PRE drafting from a Cube point of view and think it would be a very painful process with picking cards and passing the booster along etc.
Leagues on the other hand are easy to do, pack generation is very easy to sort out as I do this for the Coalition League and it could easily be adapted for Heirloom packs.
You could do a sealed event in a similar way as well, infact this may be better for you as the packs could be generated before an event so every one has time to buy the cards they are missing.
If you are interested in this let me know all I need to generate packs for a sealed Heirloom pool is your list of cards with rarities in an excel spreadsheet then I can work out the pack structure from there.
I'd love to see packs drop to $3 online, but this would almost certainly be a mistake from Wizard's perspective. Even if enough people joined who otherwise would not have played previously to offset the loss of revenue, the problem is that on some level they would likely be stealing players from paper magic. Paper retailers would not like to have to compete with an online option that features both reasonable prices and accessibility. I definitely think lowering pack prices would be a boost to the online community, but it would likely be to the detriment of the paper community. And honestly, the paper community is orders of magnitude more important than the online one (and I say that as a basically online only player).
I also used to be really against mythics. I quit magic for a year and a half, and mythics were a big part of the reason why. That said, I'm less convinced now than I was then that mythics are as bad as some folks think. I could go either way. The reason why is that rare prices really have fallen. It's really obnoxious when Wizards prints a card like Vengevine at Mythic, but then again I'm also really glad that I'm not shelling out 20 for a Misty Rainforest like I used to for Breeding Pool, and that's not even factoring in inflation. I hate to think of how ridiculously expensive the worldwake duals would be without Mythics depressing their price. So on the one hand now you have chase mythics which command unprecedented prices along with rares that rarely go above the 8 ticket mark. On the other hand, before we had lots of expensive rares that were not as bad as the priciest mythics, but were still far more expensive than their counterparts are now. So would you rather fork over $160 for your playset of chase mythics or for your manabase? Honestly I don't know which is better for the game. On the one hand I feel like rare lands are more important for deckbuilding than any given mythic. You don't need to play Jace or Primeval Titan to be competitive. While it's true that you don't need rare lands to be competitive either, I feel that this is more difficult to avoid than any particular set of pricey mythics. It's kinda nice knowing that the cards that I'm forking over a lot for have a big impact on the game in obvious ways. That said, mythic prices tend to fluctuate a lot more wildly than rares used to, and I think this is a significant problem.
Guys, I like cats, but the 2 pictures above are a bit odd in this list.
Ya with a flipper from hands, we can do.. wait I got something wrong there, oh well I'll figure it out later.
As always your enthusiasm and participation are great, maybe you could start promoting it soon once we get the particulars down as well, (website posts ect)
X-
I know you 4-0ed in the SOM sealed, but apart from opening a superb package, I'm very confused why you didn't run a BGr poison deck. It's just obvious, but it might be only me.
I think you have to be fairly dedicated to him, but if you are he's great, but I'm not such a fan of running him as a random extra "good with artifacts" guy. and you want like 20 zero and 1 cc artifacts for him to be worth it.
X-
Hello Guys!
Thx for doing the work for this project, im really looking forward to try that!
I would really like to help out in any way, only with computer subjects im not sooo familiar...
Hey Guys!
to me Vedalken Archmage was a little slow, holding your 0 drops until he hits the board AND he is the target for every removal spell as well. But if he is on, its a really solid drawengine here.
I think having chase Mythics + reasonable Rares is much worse than having expensive Rares.
1. You can't trade for them. Having to trade 20-some odd Fetchlands for a JMS just feels wrong. This of course, is much easier to do online than in paper.
2. It discourages people from opening packs and instead prices them out of the format. With Ravinca-Ravnica-Guildpack and Ravnica-Guildpack-Dissension, the odds of opening a nice money rare, i.e. bop/bob/char/hierarch/rav dual were decent, and the odds of opening a dual land from the latter two sets were still decent, so it encouraged drafting and the busting of packs. You could 2-3 drafts or bust a dozen packs in hopes of getting that Hallowed Fountain you needed. But the new sets are horrible. You could bust a dozen packs and easily not find a chase Mythic. Moreover, that rare + 3 unc + 11 commons you spent $4 for are now likely worth $0.25 to a bot =/
Of course, people are addicted to drafting by now, and in the short term, I guess people have shown a willingness to just shell out to dealers for the high-priced Mythics. I don't know if people can keep this up in the long term though.
Its not even kind of close enough,
that's just like saying that the internet exists and you can post stuff there lol.
The PRE community has come up with solutions but I'm not going to award wizards credit for putting one forum up among their hundreds of forums so that if you look long enough you can find it.
In practice it's a huge handicap not to have something in game and to be flamed by ORCs for discussing PREs in regular chat channels.
X-
They have a forum for PREs on their website. Not quite a classified section, but close enough.
Hey there Lythand,
Another great article,
Geth is pretty sweet for sure, a bit on the pricey side but certianly dragon-like in that if you untap with him or have a bunch of xtra mana after you play him things are going to go badly for your enemies.
Not sure that Koth is going to get monored over the top in commander, maybe with some trickey deckbuilding so that you have some combo and staying power.
Skith seems a little cheesy atm, they need to fix it so 20 poison counters are needed.
X-
Legal reasons not to give people who run and are looking to play in PRE's even a classified's section?
There is always skill and luck in magic hehe
I wasn't suggesting that you would run the same deck only querying whether you would be successful doing so or more likely to succeed with something fresh. I think either approach has it's merits.
X-
Why don't we go for standard first then, keep the mechanics involved a little lower and use cards that are familiar to more people? (seems like there should be more than 104 cards from shards legal though, a quick advanced search shows that just in reborn there are more than 175 that would be legal if their legality were set right now and I don't think prices have changes that much that systemically to go from more than 500 in the block to only 104)
So this would be like an Heirloom limited league then right? you can play it whenever you find an opponent? how does that usually work? Details to be worked out before execution to be sure, but I like the idea of an anytime league that lets people play during the week between constructed events.
Since there seems to be an issue using the excel list for this I suppose some other solution may have to be crafted, let me know what more you'll need from me to get that working and what you think about the mechanics of a league.
Actually I think this is a perfect next step for Heirloom, first the constructed event now the limited league.
*we'll certianly have to keep track of who has what in their pool of course right?
X-
who says i would use the same deck i mean it doesnt seem to work what wins one week in this seems to almost be in last place the next week. but either way i guess if it comes down to skill and no luck i am at a huge disadvantage.:P
There are legal reasons why Wizards is not friendly towards PREs. Just as there are typically legal reasons for most of the things they do the player majority dislikes.
Koth and Elspeth are not married in official storyline, this is purely a development on their respective Facebook and Twitter feeds. The lines of fantasy and reality are blurring... I think I need to lie down...
I think your pool for Block is a bit small, I just had a look at Shards of Alara block and in the spreadsheet there are only 104 cards. I think Std or Extended sounds best. Classic is a possibility or Legacy but would require quite a bit of work as the spreadsheet is not very user friendly for what I need as the set and rarity are in the same column.
It's all possible though just let me know what you want to do and I'll build the pool ready for deck generation.
I'll change the rarity of Mythics to rare and see how it goes.
Once you decide on your format any players wanting their booster contents can just pm me via the wizards forum (same name ((with Heirloom in the subject)) and I'll send them back their pack contents.
I think the Mirroden Coalition league will be awesome. I won my prerelease flight last week and opened 5 of the packs already for my pool and I cracked an Elspeth. I think she is the best planeswalker of the three for limited, so I am pumped. I will be looking for you to see if I can take you down :)
My initial thought about dissipation field was similar to yours but I have noticed a lot of ETB critters recently. I also got wrecked by molten psyche today, that is fun against control. Good stuff.
Hey Flippers,
As a lover of limited I'd certianly like to try this out sometime, we have an excel version of the card list already http://www.archive.org/download/heirloomexcelDB/heirloomlistexcel.xls (missing 2-3 cards i think)
I like the idea of starting with sealed even though draft is my truer passion, with draft we'd have to have a program other than mtgo then import decklists in, so obviously that would be a bit of a hassle.
The proportion of mythics to other rarities would have to be decreased I think since there are so few mythics in Heirloom (like 15) and including too many in the sealed pools seems a little repetitive with them being the same card all the time. If they were just counted as rare they would probably show up uncommonly enough to make sense.
I'll try to figure out a day we can run that event and we can go from there, question is do we do SOM block, Standard sealed, classic ect? given enough warning people can let us know what their opinion of included sets aught to be(I'm thinking either block, standard, or classic as the three choices).
X-
Maybe I'm easily entertained but this was just non-PC enough to be really funny. My favorite part:
You tell me. *flex*
I've beaten LSV a few times, where are my promo cards?
I've looked into PRE drafting from a Cube point of view and think it would be a very painful process with picking cards and passing the booster along etc.
Leagues on the other hand are easy to do, pack generation is very easy to sort out as I do this for the Coalition League and it could easily be adapted for Heirloom packs.
You could do a sealed event in a similar way as well, infact this may be better for you as the packs could be generated before an event so every one has time to buy the cards they are missing.
If you are interested in this let me know all I need to generate packs for a sealed Heirloom pool is your list of cards with rarities in an excel spreadsheet then I can work out the pack structure from there.
I think this is hands down the best idea I've seen, especially when combined with the freeroll suggestion.
I'd love to see packs drop to $3 online, but this would almost certainly be a mistake from Wizard's perspective. Even if enough people joined who otherwise would not have played previously to offset the loss of revenue, the problem is that on some level they would likely be stealing players from paper magic. Paper retailers would not like to have to compete with an online option that features both reasonable prices and accessibility. I definitely think lowering pack prices would be a boost to the online community, but it would likely be to the detriment of the paper community. And honestly, the paper community is orders of magnitude more important than the online one (and I say that as a basically online only player).
I also used to be really against mythics. I quit magic for a year and a half, and mythics were a big part of the reason why. That said, I'm less convinced now than I was then that mythics are as bad as some folks think. I could go either way. The reason why is that rare prices really have fallen. It's really obnoxious when Wizards prints a card like Vengevine at Mythic, but then again I'm also really glad that I'm not shelling out 20 for a Misty Rainforest like I used to for Breeding Pool, and that's not even factoring in inflation. I hate to think of how ridiculously expensive the worldwake duals would be without Mythics depressing their price. So on the one hand now you have chase mythics which command unprecedented prices along with rares that rarely go above the 8 ticket mark. On the other hand, before we had lots of expensive rares that were not as bad as the priciest mythics, but were still far more expensive than their counterparts are now. So would you rather fork over $160 for your playset of chase mythics or for your manabase? Honestly I don't know which is better for the game. On the one hand I feel like rare lands are more important for deckbuilding than any given mythic. You don't need to play Jace or Primeval Titan to be competitive. While it's true that you don't need rare lands to be competitive either, I feel that this is more difficult to avoid than any particular set of pricey mythics. It's kinda nice knowing that the cards that I'm forking over a lot for have a big impact on the game in obvious ways. That said, mythic prices tend to fluctuate a lot more wildly than rares used to, and I think this is a significant problem.