It looks like a cool deck to play, but I find it also emblematic of a problem I (and others) face with the format: ubiquity. On the surface, it looks like a cool commander choice, but that's just the label because underneath, we see the same cards in decks over and over and over. The Titans, the best equipment, Survival, etc. etc. I hope you don't take that the wrong way, Mike, because I too often fall into the "good stuff"/auto-include trap, but I still think it is a kind of trap. There's a line between flavour and good stuff/competitiveness and it's often hard to know where to draw the line.
I've got to say, I admire your ability to be such a prolific writer and player. I admire that a lot, actually. It takes me forever to write one article just because I keep changing my mind throughout the writing process. Do you usually just play one game with a deck and then write about it? If not, how do you choose which game to feature? Inquiring minds wanna know. ;)
Thanks for the interest in the deck. I know it seems like a pile, but I have been playing Landstill for 10 years in Vintage. I wrote the primer for the deck in 2001 and have been playing ported versions in Legacy and only recently in Classic. The card choices may seem odd, but they have been heavily tested in Vintage and Legacy. I am still unclear as to whether there are better options for Classic metagames.
The only cards that definitely should be changed are the 3 Counterspell, which should be 3 Mana Drain. They were omitted simply because I could not find any. I am not sure if I would play a fourth. As for the other card choices, I will be happy to provide explanations for anyone who has specific questions.
Thanks again for taking the time to analyze the deck.
Haha! I was the Belcher player, but I didn't fully play. I had just woken up and my clannies asked me to join to fire the DE. I tried to play the first match but made a horrendous play error that I would never make if not half asleep* (indeed never made that play error before, grrr), and dropped from the tourney. I'm only saying this because the deck is actually fairly strong and I may have to avenge its name! ;P
* play error... forgot I had used Summoner's Pact when deciding to either a) Wheel of Fortune or b) Empty the Warrens. This decision came after a Memory Jar, so I had long forgotten the Pacts <-- yes, plural.
Great deck and great article overall. It's always a pleasure to read your writings.
Just one thing: I beg you to turn off the foil animation while recording, it kinda makes me nauseos while watvhing the vids. (Also, it lowers the quality and/or increases the video file size ;) ).
I forgot to mention, Gildie comes in against Jazzerator as well, to steal their Tinkered Blightsteel. He also ups the blue spell count considerably, making your countermagic stronger in games 2 and 3, which you need against Oath and Jazzerator.
By the way, nice job on the Meta analysis and overall placing information. Keep up the great work, this podcast gets better every time I listen to it.
Without boasting I want to say that I'm currently first in the MOCS draft section and I just wanted to say that I agree with pretty much every pick you made (which is why I included the mocs comment). A few things: 1) I take gold myr over invisomnacer 2) I cut Scudder over disperse. 3) Don't let that slasher fool you, he's a piece of junk (solely because of infect) - you generally need tech to play him and all the tech in the world doesn't stop fume spitter or virulent wound.
General Comment: I think we're going to find that vivisection was much better in MMM drafts as opposed to MSS. It's worth watching for when the third set drops.
This will be a late reply but I think that Thrun, the Last Troll would have been a MUCH better option against Control than those Jund Hackblades.
Going over your sideboard again, I see that you have a lot of mass removal there. 4x Pyroclasm, 2x Jund Charm, 1x Volcanic Fallout, 1x Massacre Wurm... those are 8 cards in total! In my opinion that's way more than necessary for a deck that is already great against creature decks with the main deck.
You already have 2x Jund Charm in the main deck. Add 2 more to the sideboard and you'll be fine. It's also your weapon against graveyard manipulation so it's actually one stone two birds.
Apparently you were expecting a lot of Aggro but looking at the recent tournaments, I personally wasen't expecting that much Aggro. Hypergenesis for example was a given. Blightning is good against them but sometimes even a third turn Blightning might be to late. Duress is a must to fight them. Which also works great against Control.
So if I were you playing that main deck, my sideboard would be this:
4x Duress (your weapon against Combo)
4x Thrun, the Last Troll (your weapon against Control)
3x Acidic Slime (great against many things including Cloudposts)
2x Thought Hemorrhage (good against Combo & Control)
2x Jund Charm (works both against Aggro & graveyard manipulation)
I did a video myself a while back of an Aluren deck using FOW. I can honestly say after much testing FOW is a must for me in the maindeck. In addition I find that adding discard to the sideboard is a better option than replacing FOW in the maindeck especially in a format that Dredge and Ad Nauseam Tendrils (ANT) is heavily played in. I have lost too many games against ANT where all I needed was a FOW, and since ANT is the top winning deck in the format right now I think it's a must.
Here is a link to my FOW build, but be thoughtful as it's a slightly older build from last July:
I agree that its very subjective what is and what isn't fun. I was trying to illustrate with my tutor example how it is difficult to get the games you want using the game description. There are very few situations where I still have a chance to win and will concede. I don't have a problem with any particular mechanic or card (though Annihilator is pretty annoying) because any card can be used in a fun or interesting way. Ever Armageddon effects can be cool when used with Terravore or Countryside Crusher. What's not fun is using land destruction as a way to lock the opponents out of the game. Using Armageddon + Terravore early also isn't fun, since you won't be ending the game in 3 swings but 9 or 12. Sitting around watching one guy attack and hoping to draw a land isn't fun, at least in my opinion.
And by the way, I'm really not as rigid in game as I might seem from this discussion. Like I said, I will usually only concede in the face of certain defeat, and not even then if killing me will only take a few minutes or seconds (I really dislike people who concede to lethal damage when someone has a Sword of Fire and Ice or something). The only decks I really have a problem with are the people who build them only looking for a conclusive victory, not an interesting game. This distinction comes back to the Social Contract. If more people were aware of it and interested in trying to adhere to it, the format as a whole would improve. That's just my opinion, though, as is all I've said. I might not add in the disclaimer "IMO" after every sentence, but I'm not trying to speak with any authority.
Glad to see this series continue. These are great for getting ready for the next tournament, or to see what you missed in my case the past couple weeks.
Aluren is a good deck. The cost of it in paper grants small access to who can play it as it is a 2,000 deck and half of it is on a playset of Recruiters that see very little play in decks.
It was played a lot last year by many people online with a handful of pros testing it as well. As an archtype it has not yet made any top 8 placings in GP or SCG 5K series.
Artic Merfolk as the 2nd Dreamstalker to get around random Extripate spells-small but valid-.Artic Merfolk is a kicker cost and can not be stifled or the cost countered even if countering A.Merfolk.
Card is amazing, like a horse with sweet lemonade.
You want the 4 FoWs. Yes, all of them. No need to argue this simply because you don't play or own them.
technically it was cedric on his account. im not saying that your wrong im just saying that as an archtype, it was statiscally supierior to run fow. before deckcheck shut down i tried my hand at aluren and when i researched there were a greater number of fow versions at the top of the standings. my own testing of both showed fow to be better. i also ran thoughtseize along side it. this was at least a year ago though.
I'm interested in how you conclude that Aluren loses to turn 1 Thoughtseize/Duress every single time. I've been playing the deck for a few months now and have beat turn 1 Duress/Thoughtseize more times than I can count.
You are right, Aluren will lose to turn 1 a turn one combo from a deck like Belcher. But look at the math.
What percentage of Legacy games are won turn 1? Maybe 5%? That's being rather generous. I'd wager the number is more like 0.5% on turn 1.
Then in 50% of those turn 1 games, you'll be on the play and Thoughtseize does the same thing FoW does. We're now down to 2.5% of your games.
Then you have to have both FoW and another blue card in your hand. Assuming you cannot keep a hand that has less than 2 lands and and either Aluren/Recruiter against an unknown opponent that means you only have 3 other cards in hand. That means approximately 28% of the time you have FoW in your opener you won't have another blue spell you can exile (i.e. Cavern Harpy and Parasitic Strix don't count)in your hand. That means FoW is now responsible for keeping you from losing less than 2% of your games.
Less than 2% of games FoW will stop a turn 1 kill. Now what percentage of games will you face Krosan Grip which FoW is clearly inferior against. Then you decide which is better in Aluren.
@coolsucks: probably sideboard tech for workshop mirrors that play Smokestack, it's also a nice answer to Oath.
What does eon hub do in the sb for workshop? it was in the board for the 8th place deck.
It looks like a cool deck to play, but I find it also emblematic of a problem I (and others) face with the format: ubiquity. On the surface, it looks like a cool commander choice, but that's just the label because underneath, we see the same cards in decks over and over and over. The Titans, the best equipment, Survival, etc. etc. I hope you don't take that the wrong way, Mike, because I too often fall into the "good stuff"/auto-include trap, but I still think it is a kind of trap. There's a line between flavour and good stuff/competitiveness and it's often hard to know where to draw the line.
I've got to say, I admire your ability to be such a prolific writer and player. I admire that a lot, actually. It takes me forever to write one article just because I keep changing my mind throughout the writing process. Do you usually just play one game with a deck and then write about it? If not, how do you choose which game to feature? Inquiring minds wanna know. ;)
+50 Elite points for the bong hit @37:01
Yeah that does sound like a deck you don't want to sleep through playing.
Thanks for the interest in the deck. I know it seems like a pile, but I have been playing Landstill for 10 years in Vintage. I wrote the primer for the deck in 2001 and have been playing ported versions in Legacy and only recently in Classic. The card choices may seem odd, but they have been heavily tested in Vintage and Legacy. I am still unclear as to whether there are better options for Classic metagames.
The only cards that definitely should be changed are the 3 Counterspell, which should be 3 Mana Drain. They were omitted simply because I could not find any. I am not sure if I would play a fourth. As for the other card choices, I will be happy to provide explanations for anyone who has specific questions.
Thanks again for taking the time to analyze the deck.
Haha! I was the Belcher player, but I didn't fully play. I had just woken up and my clannies asked me to join to fire the DE. I tried to play the first match but made a horrendous play error that I would never make if not half asleep* (indeed never made that play error before, grrr), and dropped from the tourney. I'm only saying this because the deck is actually fairly strong and I may have to avenge its name! ;P
* play error... forgot I had used Summoner's Pact when deciding to either a) Wheel of Fortune or b) Empty the Warrens. This decision came after a Memory Jar, so I had long forgotten the Pacts <-- yes, plural.
Thanks for all the hard work guys. This is easily the best weekly thing on pure now. Keep it up.
Actually I did it I think yesterday (if not the day before) but the article was probably already submitted by then
Great deck and great article overall. It's always a pleasure to read your writings.
Just one thing: I beg you to turn off the foil animation while recording, it kinda makes me nauseos while watvhing the vids. (Also, it lowers the quality and/or increases the video file size ;) ).
I forgot to mention, Gildie comes in against Jazzerator as well, to steal their Tinkered Blightsteel. He also ups the blue spell count considerably, making your countermagic stronger in games 2 and 3, which you need against Oath and Jazzerator.
By the way, nice job on the Meta analysis and overall placing information. Keep up the great work, this podcast gets better every time I listen to it.
Don't forget that the Dragon's Breath trigger can be Stifled, then Gilded Drake becomes a lot better. You can also Nature's Claim the DB.
That is very succinct. I don't think I could argue with any of those choices.
Without boasting I want to say that I'm currently first in the MOCS draft section and I just wanted to say that I agree with pretty much every pick you made (which is why I included the mocs comment). A few things: 1) I take gold myr over invisomnacer 2) I cut Scudder over disperse. 3) Don't let that slasher fool you, he's a piece of junk (solely because of infect) - you generally need tech to play him and all the tech in the world doesn't stop fume spitter or virulent wound.
General Comment: I think we're going to find that vivisection was much better in MMM drafts as opposed to MSS. It's worth watching for when the third set drops.
General Comment: Battle Cry is messed.
Well drafted and a decent money open.
Thanks
This will be a late reply but I think that Thrun, the Last Troll would have been a MUCH better option against Control than those Jund Hackblades.
Going over your sideboard again, I see that you have a lot of mass removal there. 4x Pyroclasm, 2x Jund Charm, 1x Volcanic Fallout, 1x Massacre Wurm... those are 8 cards in total! In my opinion that's way more than necessary for a deck that is already great against creature decks with the main deck.
You already have 2x Jund Charm in the main deck. Add 2 more to the sideboard and you'll be fine. It's also your weapon against graveyard manipulation so it's actually one stone two birds.
Apparently you were expecting a lot of Aggro but looking at the recent tournaments, I personally wasen't expecting that much Aggro. Hypergenesis for example was a given. Blightning is good against them but sometimes even a third turn Blightning might be to late. Duress is a must to fight them. Which also works great against Control.
So if I were you playing that main deck, my sideboard would be this:
4x Duress (your weapon against Combo)
4x Thrun, the Last Troll (your weapon against Control)
3x Acidic Slime (great against many things including Cloudposts)
2x Thought Hemorrhage (good against Combo & Control)
2x Jund Charm (works both against Aggro & graveyard manipulation)
Just my thoughts.
LE
I did a video myself a while back of an Aluren deck using FOW. I can honestly say after much testing FOW is a must for me in the maindeck. In addition I find that adding discard to the sideboard is a better option than replacing FOW in the maindeck especially in a format that Dredge and Ad Nauseam Tendrils (ANT) is heavily played in. I have lost too many games against ANT where all I needed was a FOW, and since ANT is the top winning deck in the format right now I think it's a must.
Here is a link to my FOW build, but be thoughtful as it's a slightly older build from last July:
http://www.mtgoacademy.com/article-forcing-the-will-aluren/
Still it's good to see other writers finally taking up Legacy.
Wow I don't play legacy due to budget constrains but I think that was the best play through I've seen on puremtgo.
Good job.
I agree that its very subjective what is and what isn't fun. I was trying to illustrate with my tutor example how it is difficult to get the games you want using the game description. There are very few situations where I still have a chance to win and will concede. I don't have a problem with any particular mechanic or card (though Annihilator is pretty annoying) because any card can be used in a fun or interesting way. Ever Armageddon effects can be cool when used with Terravore or Countryside Crusher. What's not fun is using land destruction as a way to lock the opponents out of the game. Using Armageddon + Terravore early also isn't fun, since you won't be ending the game in 3 swings but 9 or 12. Sitting around watching one guy attack and hoping to draw a land isn't fun, at least in my opinion.
And by the way, I'm really not as rigid in game as I might seem from this discussion. Like I said, I will usually only concede in the face of certain defeat, and not even then if killing me will only take a few minutes or seconds (I really dislike people who concede to lethal damage when someone has a Sword of Fire and Ice or something). The only decks I really have a problem with are the people who build them only looking for a conclusive victory, not an interesting game. This distinction comes back to the Social Contract. If more people were aware of it and interested in trying to adhere to it, the format as a whole would improve. That's just my opinion, though, as is all I've said. I might not add in the disclaimer "IMO" after every sentence, but I'm not trying to speak with any authority.
And Featuring FMB's too!
Glad to see this series continue. These are great for getting ready for the next tournament, or to see what you missed in my case the past couple weeks.
Aluren is a good deck. The cost of it in paper grants small access to who can play it as it is a 2,000 deck and half of it is on a playset of Recruiters that see very little play in decks.
It was played a lot last year by many people online with a handful of pros testing it as well. As an archtype it has not yet made any top 8 placings in GP or SCG 5K series.
Artic Merfolk as the 2nd Dreamstalker to get around random Extripate spells-small but valid-.Artic Merfolk is a kicker cost and can not be stifled or the cost countered even if countering A.Merfolk.
Card is amazing, like a horse with sweet lemonade.
You want the 4 FoWs. Yes, all of them. No need to argue this simply because you don't play or own them.
technically it was cedric on his account. im not saying that your wrong im just saying that as an archtype, it was statiscally supierior to run fow. before deckcheck shut down i tried my hand at aluren and when i researched there were a greater number of fow versions at the top of the standings. my own testing of both showed fow to be better. i also ran thoughtseize along side it. this was at least a year ago though.
Maybe JX can chime into this conversation since he is the one who was successfully piloting Aluren in tourneys awhile back.
Oh JX, where art thou.
I'm interested in how you conclude that Aluren loses to turn 1 Thoughtseize/Duress every single time. I've been playing the deck for a few months now and have beat turn 1 Duress/Thoughtseize more times than I can count.
You are right, Aluren will lose to turn 1 a turn one combo from a deck like Belcher. But look at the math.
What percentage of Legacy games are won turn 1? Maybe 5%? That's being rather generous. I'd wager the number is more like 0.5% on turn 1.
Then in 50% of those turn 1 games, you'll be on the play and Thoughtseize does the same thing FoW does. We're now down to 2.5% of your games.
Then you have to have both FoW and another blue card in your hand. Assuming you cannot keep a hand that has less than 2 lands and and either Aluren/Recruiter against an unknown opponent that means you only have 3 other cards in hand. That means approximately 28% of the time you have FoW in your opener you won't have another blue spell you can exile (i.e. Cavern Harpy and Parasitic Strix don't count)in your hand. That means FoW is now responsible for keeping you from losing less than 2% of your games.
Less than 2% of games FoW will stop a turn 1 kill. Now what percentage of games will you face Krosan Grip which FoW is clearly inferior against. Then you decide which is better in Aluren.