Yea I have this built in guilt if I go 3c if I feel like I can get a solid 23 in 2c. It would take something on the level of a fireball or a few good flash back effects, like the reanimated sorcery.
I've been surprising myself with ISD drafts... out of 6 Swiss drafts I've averaged 2 packs won - even when I thought my picks weren't that strong.
I'm finding almost no one plays fast and early aggro - so I've mostly focused on the quick low-cost game, and getting that consistent (2 out of 3 drafts playing black I managed to get 2 Diregraf Ghoul's in 2 of those games). Every colour has great 1st turn plays, Blue = Delver, Black = Diregraf, Red = Waif ...
So far green looks like the weakest colour, it doesn't have many big drops, nothing fast. It's hard to draft enough Warewolves to make a cohesive deck of them (and just as I wrote this, someone beat me with a red/green Warewolf deck - won due to overpowering and quantity of Ware's with little facilitating cards), Humans don't seem to hold up as well as constructed - especially the green/white type.
Blue/Black seems to be the strongest, my best drafted deck so far was Zombies. Black's removal isn't as silly as other formats, but Dead Weight, Victim of the Night (haven't played against a deck where I couldn't use it for someone yet) and even Corpse Lunge are all solid ... but the super-awesomeness comes from Unburial Rites, if you've got Skaabs then you can cast them from the grave without paying the cost - that Goliath has won me several games (and in 1 game, got him into play 3 times!).
Every time Cellar Door comes up, I have a serious think on it... but it's just too expensive to activate for my play style.
Banshee is nuts, even if your spending your own guy headlong into battle - there isn't much in ISD she can't kill even without comboing with other cards.
Loving the reasoning, and it's funny I had a similar convo with a buddy before I posted this asking him the same questions I am asking you guys (what did I pick wrong? how can i improve, etc).
So dunkle stille (who just qual'd for PT - grats bro! <3) was telling me very similar things, especially in regards to p1p2, p1p3, and p1p6.
He was arguing for another one of the 1/4 turtle dudes (the mill 4 guys) over the bonds, but I like the goliath too... would give me more end game reach.
Geistflame seems really good, and I actually mentioned as much. Needless to say I picked the wrong card here for SURE, no arguments.
p1p6 he said the exact same, claust over victim. I truly believe if I didn't lead with a p1p1 snappy I would have gone claust, and I hope to in the future (I will draft a lot more UB, bet on that!)
p1p11 - agr33++
p2p6 - I will try alter's reap.... Also sets off the 'Skinrender' :P
p3p2 - I would have that things' babies. Loving it and will pick it again and again (4/4 is no slouch for 5 mana, that ability is bonkers insane)
Thanks so much for your comments, they are much appreciated and I will retain the info!
P1P2 - Skaab Goliath is on the same power level as Bonds of Faith in my opinion, if not a little better. It keeps you on color (snapcaster is a fine card in limited and you'd like to play him) so I think it was the pick here.
P1P3 - Geistflame is really good. There is plenty of stuff it can kill and flashback cards are very good in blue decks because you will often mill yourself. Corpse Lunge is an okay choice here too, but is a bit conditional.
P1P6 - I think I continue to stay in blue with Claustrophobia, which is pretty close in power level to Victim of Night, if not better. I've been underwhelmed by Victim because man it sucks when it can't kill the creature you want it to. Geistcatcher's rig is also a strong consideration here and might actually be the pick.
P1P11 - Echo above poster. Corpse Lunge here.
P2P6 - Feral ridgewolf is pretty lousy. It's playable I guess but Altar's Reap is better IMO and in your colors. You passed a couple more Altar's Reaps throughout the draft, too. It's a fine card and at the very least is a good sideboard option against decks running bonds of faith, claustraphobia, etc.
P3P2 - I could be wrong and the Banshee is certainly defensible (although let's be real - it's not a skinrender) but Grasp might actually just be better. That card is insane.
This was a very good article. I don't draft much, to addicted to FNMs and Legacy Online, but since Legacy isn't firing it might be time to draft.
These are exactly the kind of draft articles I think help out the average player.
Well Done!
On a side note.......nobody likes the Mill Player. Online who cares, but at the local shop I'd think the teasing would be overwelming if I sleeved up a build like mill. Guess we will find out as I will try and push mill the next time we draft.
Ha - I totally agree that Cellar Door might just be underrated ... but that's because most would never consider it for their 40 ever, when it really might break slow control mirrors should that ever exist.
Totally understand on just "missing" Corpse Lunge - that makes perfect sense looking through the draft. That's kind of what's awesome about Innistrad too, in any other set the card would be borderline if not unplayable, but it can be basically Brimstone Volley in the right UB or GB deck.
Yea, whenever I think back to the pick, I always regret it. Especially after I saw LSV playing his sealed deck with both Moorland Haunt and Back From the Brink in his deck, the Haunt just worked out so well- I guess I was just having pipe dreams of reusing utility creatures like Fiend Hunter and Slayer of the Wicked without really realizing aggro/swarm was a pretty big Plan A of my deck.
I think passing the Moorland Haunt is wrong. It's just too insane of a card, even if it kinda steps in the toes of your Back from the Brink. I think the UW deck wants to be more about swarming than having a late game card advantage engine.
That said, good draft. U/W is currently replacing U/B as my favorite archetype in the format. Congrats for the win. :)
Thanks SO much! This is exactly what I was looking for...
Is it bad I had to look up all of the cards you named (with a few exceptions :P )?
I appreciate the insight and I feel like I was just being a greedy turd when I started picking red cards... Just didn't feel right.
I will say I think cellar door is being rather underrated, but I don't know how much. I agree with your '%40' observation, as 4/10 times it will be milling one card for 3 mana (meh) so I think it will stay in the sb if I pick it again in the future.
I think I just MISSED Corspe Lunge (which is obviously no excuse). I thought it was the discard spell in hindsight, but I will keep my eye out for it in the future. I felt like I was missing more removal..
Stalker was pretty meh, hopefully I will get more equipment if I get him again..
Banshee is one of my fav cards after one draft. He is really ridic.
Thanks a mill for the comments man, I want to learn this format!
It's still VERY early in the format, but it seems like you missed a couple of key interactions/cards:
-p3p6, taking Devils over Corpse Lunge when you're firmly in UB "Dump Stuff Into Yard" is bizarre ... you're never starting the Devils, and even if you think you've reached critical mass of stuff that removes creatures, it's an unreal sideboard solution for you against otherwise-troublesome stuff like, oh, other gift Bloodline Keepers.
-Delver of Secrets isn't all that good ... a 'normal' deck running 17 lands/15 creatures will still only have a 20% chance of any given card off the top being an instant/sorcery (and a lot of UB decks will want to run more creatures since you're working them out of the yard so often (plus that doesn't take into account artifacts or the fact that some of the best UB non-creatures are enchantments, etc.). Delver is a brutally bad topdeck, and looks pretty mopey any turn other than turn 1 (the mana savings versus something like, say, Moon Heron with 8 lands lategame isn't all that sweet).
-Cellar Door is basically a 2cc, fragile Urza's Factory. No, seriously - most decks will have about a 40% chance of the bottom card being a creature (assuming 16), so you're investing about 7.5 mana on average for a 2/2. Now, the Factory was kind of sweet in slow U decks in TSP draft, but that's because it was a land that cheated a spell - this is a spell that has a legit shot to do nothing forever. You really need a VERY specific deck to want the Door over nearly any card with text or power/toughness. Especially where you mentioned it p1p5, Typhoid Rats is better than the Door in 99.995% of UB decks, and it's a better speculative pick even if you wind up UW.
-Door over Lunge p1p11 is borderline insane. Lunge isn't great, but in your deck, it's at its peak effectiveness because you're filling the yard, and in about half your matchups it does much more than Victim of Night.
-Stalker is a fine man, but he's definitely at his best with equipment - might be at his most marginal in a good UB deck (which yours was).
-Banshee is hard to activate - you made some good decisions to grab Morbid enablers, which feels like the key. Not sure I'd roll the equipment, but it looked VERY solid from what I've watched, so kudos. I feel like I learned a lot, haha.
In short - GREAT deck, very nice draft, and hopefully these small things make sense. Appreciate the vids!
I personally hated to publish this, because i love to draft mill so much! I think you did a great job explaining the concepts on the archetype so well!
"When you say "Rat (non-Kamigawa only)", do you mean that Kamigawa rats can't be run at all, or Kamigawa rats don't count towards the 20-tribe members?"
It means they can't be run at all. No Rat Worriors, no Rat Ninja, just plain ol' "Creature - Rat".
The special event looks like it might be a fun event. I'll try to be there. And thanks Kuma for the article. It once again reminded me how much fun Tribal Wars is.
Yea I have this built in guilt if I go 3c if I feel like I can get a solid 23 in 2c. It would take something on the level of a fireball or a few good flash back effects, like the reanimated sorcery.
I've been surprising myself with ISD drafts... out of 6 Swiss drafts I've averaged 2 packs won - even when I thought my picks weren't that strong.
I'm finding almost no one plays fast and early aggro - so I've mostly focused on the quick low-cost game, and getting that consistent (2 out of 3 drafts playing black I managed to get 2 Diregraf Ghoul's in 2 of those games). Every colour has great 1st turn plays, Blue = Delver, Black = Diregraf, Red = Waif ...
So far green looks like the weakest colour, it doesn't have many big drops, nothing fast. It's hard to draft enough Warewolves to make a cohesive deck of them (and just as I wrote this, someone beat me with a red/green Warewolf deck - won due to overpowering and quantity of Ware's with little facilitating cards), Humans don't seem to hold up as well as constructed - especially the green/white type.
Blue/Black seems to be the strongest, my best drafted deck so far was Zombies. Black's removal isn't as silly as other formats, but Dead Weight, Victim of the Night (haven't played against a deck where I couldn't use it for someone yet) and even Corpse Lunge are all solid ... but the super-awesomeness comes from Unburial Rites, if you've got Skaabs then you can cast them from the grave without paying the cost - that Goliath has won me several games (and in 1 game, got him into play 3 times!).
Well done, Rick. I'm glad to see your video here.
An advice to all drafters around here: take care with Ricklongo. The guy is a machine!
Every time Cellar Door comes up, I have a serious think on it... but it's just too expensive to activate for my play style.
Banshee is nuts, even if your spending your own guy headlong into battle - there isn't much in ISD she can't kill even without comboing with other cards.
I think you've faced dredge int he 4th round every time you play in a dailyXD... That deck is just to popular.
you have the same amount of mispronounced words as the native english speakers. Strong accent but nobody should have any issues understanding you.
Good job.
Heh, I cringe when I listen to myself mispronounce stuff like "tribute". :P
I think you severely undervalue Shimmering Grotto :) I love splashing!
I love listening to this. :)
Thanks vis!
Loving the reasoning, and it's funny I had a similar convo with a buddy before I posted this asking him the same questions I am asking you guys (what did I pick wrong? how can i improve, etc).
So dunkle stille (who just qual'd for PT - grats bro! <3) was telling me very similar things, especially in regards to p1p2, p1p3, and p1p6.
He was arguing for another one of the 1/4 turtle dudes (the mill 4 guys) over the bonds, but I like the goliath too... would give me more end game reach.
Geistflame seems really good, and I actually mentioned as much. Needless to say I picked the wrong card here for SURE, no arguments.
p1p6 he said the exact same, claust over victim. I truly believe if I didn't lead with a p1p1 snappy I would have gone claust, and I hope to in the future (I will draft a lot more UB, bet on that!)
p1p11 - agr33++
p2p6 - I will try alter's reap.... Also sets off the 'Skinrender' :P
p3p2 - I would have that things' babies. Loving it and will pick it again and again (4/4 is no slouch for 5 mana, that ability is bonkers insane)
Thanks so much for your comments, they are much appreciated and I will retain the info!
Zach
Good stuff, here are the picks I disagreed with:
P1P2 - Skaab Goliath is on the same power level as Bonds of Faith in my opinion, if not a little better. It keeps you on color (snapcaster is a fine card in limited and you'd like to play him) so I think it was the pick here.
P1P3 - Geistflame is really good. There is plenty of stuff it can kill and flashback cards are very good in blue decks because you will often mill yourself. Corpse Lunge is an okay choice here too, but is a bit conditional.
P1P6 - I think I continue to stay in blue with Claustrophobia, which is pretty close in power level to Victim of Night, if not better. I've been underwhelmed by Victim because man it sucks when it can't kill the creature you want it to. Geistcatcher's rig is also a strong consideration here and might actually be the pick.
P1P11 - Echo above poster. Corpse Lunge here.
P2P6 - Feral ridgewolf is pretty lousy. It's playable I guess but Altar's Reap is better IMO and in your colors. You passed a couple more Altar's Reaps throughout the draft, too. It's a fine card and at the very least is a good sideboard option against decks running bonds of faith, claustraphobia, etc.
P3P2 - I could be wrong and the Banshee is certainly defensible (although let's be real - it's not a skinrender) but Grasp might actually just be better. That card is insane.
This was a very good article. I don't draft much, to addicted to FNMs and Legacy Online, but since Legacy isn't firing it might be time to draft.
These are exactly the kind of draft articles I think help out the average player.
Well Done!
On a side note.......nobody likes the Mill Player. Online who cares, but at the local shop I'd think the teasing would be overwelming if I sleeved up a build like mill. Guess we will find out as I will try and push mill the next time we draft.
Ha - I totally agree that Cellar Door might just be underrated ... but that's because most would never consider it for their 40 ever, when it really might break slow control mirrors should that ever exist.
Totally understand on just "missing" Corpse Lunge - that makes perfect sense looking through the draft. That's kind of what's awesome about Innistrad too, in any other set the card would be borderline if not unplayable, but it can be basically Brimstone Volley in the right UB or GB deck.
Keep the drafts coming, man!
Yea, whenever I think back to the pick, I always regret it. Especially after I saw LSV playing his sealed deck with both Moorland Haunt and Back From the Brink in his deck, the Haunt just worked out so well- I guess I was just having pipe dreams of reusing utility creatures like Fiend Hunter and Slayer of the Wicked without really realizing aggro/swarm was a pretty big Plan A of my deck.
Thanks for the congrats :)
I think passing the Moorland Haunt is wrong. It's just too insane of a card, even if it kinda steps in the toes of your Back from the Brink. I think the UW deck wants to be more about swarming than having a late game card advantage engine.
That said, good draft. U/W is currently replacing U/B as my favorite archetype in the format. Congrats for the win. :)
yes.
Wow man -
Thanks SO much! This is exactly what I was looking for...
Is it bad I had to look up all of the cards you named (with a few exceptions :P )?
I appreciate the insight and I feel like I was just being a greedy turd when I started picking red cards... Just didn't feel right.
I will say I think cellar door is being rather underrated, but I don't know how much. I agree with your '%40' observation, as 4/10 times it will be milling one card for 3 mana (meh) so I think it will stay in the sb if I pick it again in the future.
I think I just MISSED Corspe Lunge (which is obviously no excuse). I thought it was the discard spell in hindsight, but I will keep my eye out for it in the future. I felt like I was missing more removal..
Stalker was pretty meh, hopefully I will get more equipment if I get him again..
Banshee is one of my fav cards after one draft. He is really ridic.
Thanks a mill for the comments man, I want to learn this format!
Best,
Zach
It's still VERY early in the format, but it seems like you missed a couple of key interactions/cards:
-p3p6, taking Devils over Corpse Lunge when you're firmly in UB "Dump Stuff Into Yard" is bizarre ... you're never starting the Devils, and even if you think you've reached critical mass of stuff that removes creatures, it's an unreal sideboard solution for you against otherwise-troublesome stuff like, oh, other gift Bloodline Keepers.
-Delver of Secrets isn't all that good ... a 'normal' deck running 17 lands/15 creatures will still only have a 20% chance of any given card off the top being an instant/sorcery (and a lot of UB decks will want to run more creatures since you're working them out of the yard so often (plus that doesn't take into account artifacts or the fact that some of the best UB non-creatures are enchantments, etc.). Delver is a brutally bad topdeck, and looks pretty mopey any turn other than turn 1 (the mana savings versus something like, say, Moon Heron with 8 lands lategame isn't all that sweet).
-Cellar Door is basically a 2cc, fragile Urza's Factory. No, seriously - most decks will have about a 40% chance of the bottom card being a creature (assuming 16), so you're investing about 7.5 mana on average for a 2/2. Now, the Factory was kind of sweet in slow U decks in TSP draft, but that's because it was a land that cheated a spell - this is a spell that has a legit shot to do nothing forever. You really need a VERY specific deck to want the Door over nearly any card with text or power/toughness. Especially where you mentioned it p1p5, Typhoid Rats is better than the Door in 99.995% of UB decks, and it's a better speculative pick even if you wind up UW.
-Door over Lunge p1p11 is borderline insane. Lunge isn't great, but in your deck, it's at its peak effectiveness because you're filling the yard, and in about half your matchups it does much more than Victim of Night.
-Stalker is a fine man, but he's definitely at his best with equipment - might be at his most marginal in a good UB deck (which yours was).
-Banshee is hard to activate - you made some good decisions to grab Morbid enablers, which feels like the key. Not sure I'd roll the equipment, but it looked VERY solid from what I've watched, so kudos. I feel like I learned a lot, haha.
In short - GREAT deck, very nice draft, and hopefully these small things make sense. Appreciate the vids!
I watched about 1/2 of this before work. Good videos so far.
I sold my collection when I stopped playing back in January.
Although I did pick up some cards for a STD (M12) deck a few weeks ago from credit I had left over.
Its nearly tribal so you never know, just need to bring myself round to playing again. Maybe when they get the new client going I'll pop back in.
I personally hated to publish this, because i love to draft mill so much! I think you did a great job explaining the concepts on the archetype so well!
I'd absolutely LOVE it if you and Shard showed up!
"When you say "Rat (non-Kamigawa only)", do you mean that Kamigawa rats can't be run at all, or Kamigawa rats don't count towards the 20-tribe members?"
It means they can't be run at all. No Rat Worriors, no Rat Ninja, just plain ol' "Creature - Rat".
Tribal Apocalypse happens every Saturday at 1700 GMT, with registration opening at 1630 GMT.
The special event looks like it might be a fun event. I'll try to be there. And thanks Kuma for the article. It once again reminded me how much fun Tribal Wars is.
LE