in therey, no not in classic at all. but, last nights de a titan deck could probably place.
in legacy there is a titan deck, its not great but it was popular for a little while last year. it was pretty similar to the modern titan cloudpost decks, before they got banned. with candelabra of twanos.
They are going to drop like bricks. People are trying to get rid of them, and with the M12 ones not being reprinted, they have more applications in other formats. The SOM lands are worthless in a few months.
In paper while trying to get rid of a playset of foil Darkslick Shores I have to take a loss because nobody wants to pay that kind of money for cards cycling out.
And to the person above me, does Primeval Titan have any applications to Classic/Legacy? At all?
Good point! I guess for some reason I thought titans would rotate out before Wurmcoil, but I stand corrected. I agree that target sell time should be reduced to more the July timeframe to avoid any price degradation due to the rotation.
I thought this was interesting but I'm not quite clear about what happened between Mike and Zach or what Todd even did. I'm not trying to put down this article, I'm just intrigued and want to get the story. Thanks.
I'm totally for Sylvok Lifestaff (this links to the consideration on lifegaining too). It's really really powerful in pauper, and it's something only the standard pauper crowd really realized so far.
you really would up raven's crime to 3? Every time I've run it I never passed 2, it just felt unnecessary to go beyond since once you hit one you can recast it over and over
I like the analysis, but this seems like a bad pick; you're trying to project that Wurmcoil will increase its value into Sept. That means that despite rotation being soon (Oct right?), Wurmcoil will have increased from a current near-high price. If you want to predict a spike, it generally would be more of a Julyish timeframe (he's not the last Titan; M12 will rotate out with Wurmcoil), and you'd want to sell anything you were speculating on that was rotating soon.
I've won quite a bit recently with WG Tokens, it's true, there isn't a card in Paupers vast pool that reads, "Do something nasty to someone gaining life." Flaring Pain is about it for prevention, but if you can gain crazy life...lots of times you win, or you time the person out. I won last weeks DE vs. affinity and I had 203 life!
Re: Updates to "BUG DECK"
personally, I'd go with these changes...
2x wicker main (freeing up 1 spot) - 'doomblade' is probably the trump card vs. this affinity, and having 4 main is PLENTY for an average skilled player to win vs. any build of affinity.
2x warren (really a 5cc...you DO NOT want to see this in your first 12 cards) (Freeing up 2 spots)
Agony Warp is cute, but with so much storm, (present company guilty ;) I'd swap all 4 of these with 4x ech.decay...2/3rds of magic is sideboarding, and if you don't need em'...you just got a huge opening.
I'd add 2x Soul Manipulation main and 1 more raven's crime.
SIDEBOARD OVERHAUL....
4x duress
4x snuff out (infect)
4x festercreep (additional insurance vs. storm)
3x Sylvok Lifestaff (need only see 'Signal's' Goblin build to understand how powerful this card is mid-late game.
You know I have to say that when I started this article and included that BUG deck it never crossed my mind about trying to update it, but it seems to have peeked the most interest... perhaps I should have!
@ Kuma - Oracle probably would be a good add, but again I didn't update the deck and the list is pre-oracle, the deck can stack crits pretty well as is hitting a creature drop each turn, but I do see where the deck could use a bit more of an edge, maybe I'll attempt a revamp for a later article
@Fast - I think perhaps an updated version of the BUG deck could get an edge on MBC since it has an expanse of elements beyond MBC where the focus is only Discard/Kill.. what I liked most about the deck is that it has draw/ramp/evasion/kill/discard
Perhaps you're right, I really do think there is a lot of power behind life gain in Pauper, just look at the impact Glimmerpost has alone.. if you look at the Orz deck with Pest that's been showing here and there it has that element I was talking about in a life focus, running 4 crossroads + riftwatchers + renewed faith... we also see it with the emergence of the deck I call DimirTrinket which uses the lifestaff.. also there was the GW token deck that brings in the Midnight Pressence combo and the sisters, but with so many Warden triggers it times you out.. you nailed the problem though in finding the wincon, but the answer would probably come in a form of white aggro or the better option being the OrzDW deck, which uses the pest and guardian of the guildpact for the win
With regards to tilling thunder I do feel I've played you using that deck since I've only seen the Looting use once and I think its a great idea.. with the retrace you'd have an extra wincon in the flame jab... I have seen others playing this deck where the only creature base is a full set of cartographer and the treefolk, but against a deck with enough kill these creatures won't be enough to bring out the aggro.. grim discovery has been a great add to solve this issue, but most games you still need to hit the burn spells to pull off the win... and further going back to our discussion on life gain that will wreck this deck into milling itself... as I mentioned in the video tilling thunder is an incredibly fun deck.. it brings in epic wins, but at the same time it has the potential to lose in epic fashion as well
First of all, excellent article and videos. Now on to musings. Do you think the BUG deck has some advantages over a traditional pauper mono black deck as both decks rely on the power of two for ones (the BUG deck is nearly all two for ones).
Secondly on you comment about life gain. I feel there is a lot of untapped potential of a pauper life gainish deck (martyr, squadron hawks, soul wardens and if you are feeling really mean grim harvest) but I am unsure of how to win a game outside of rage quits (after you cast grim harvest for the 10th time). What are you thoughts of a decent win condition for such a deck.
Lastly, about tilling thunder. I have been playing a similar deck for a few weeks but more of a loam build (I wasn't aware of this decklist). 30ish lands lots of retrace and looting but I have found it hard to win. My only real win condition is cenn's enlistment. Maybe with you suggestion I could aggro up my deck a bit, we will see.
It seems to me that this is part of "One Million Word"s point... everyone who writes an article tends to say how easy it is and anyone can do it, but the truth is it's not. So he's putting this to the test, doing it in an "easy and simple" way it's good indicative evidence on whether it is easy or not.
You need so much knowledge of the game and history, there's a huge time and experience investment in being able to speculate and drive up your value. And I like your Elesh note, I got her late last year and sold her for 7 tix (didn't want to, she's great but needed the tix) a few months later and she's hitting the low 20s I drafted another, almost the same day she dropped back down to 12 tix - held her (partly in protest hehe!) and then one weekend all of a sudden I got 32 for her. You can make some educated guesses but there's a big luck factor going on unless you get really "hardcore" about and that's not an attractive option for the majority of players :)
In the BUG list, you are confident enough with the blue sources to run 12 blue cards maindeck. At this point, why not go all in and put even Sea Gate Oracle in place of Phyrexian Rager? (With some further adjustement in the mana base, of course).
Also, is Warren Pilferers so better than Gravedigger to justify the higher casting cost? At cc=5 the deck hopes to play a 2/2 flyer anyway. For the same reason, I'd cut something for a couple equipments. Maybe even just Sylvok Lifestaff, which is a pain in the ass for aggro decks (and this is casual, so you'd expect to face aggro a lot). For a deck with limited control elements, you need a clock a bit faster than 2 evasive damage, no?
haha it's very true, if you watch the videos I did mention I kept the original sideboard from the deck, which I saw probably over a year ago and couldn't even describe the sideboard choices lol just about every card in it is in those same "just to be different" lines
Teeg and Archon aren't incompatible. Imho solutions to artifacts/enchantments that require sacrifice/activation are less good than the enter the battlefield ones. Since there is no dearth of those I see no reason to use Qasali pridemage and crew unless you are hoping to transform into an aggro beatdown deck (ala Zoo) post sideboard.
Good stuff - that Bug list looks consistant, but the sideboard is awful. QUAG SICKNESS? This reeks of one of those choices someone makes 'just to be different' - there are over 30 better options.
Thanks for the suggestions! I put in Chalice of the Void, but haven't yet figured out how to use it.
I did try out Archon of Justice and it's a really good card. Unfortunately for the Modern format, I think everyone is going to end playing Urzatron, which means decks like Pod are going to need Gaddock Teeg all day long.
For artifact removal, I'm using Harmonic Sliver and Qasali Pridemage. If you're running blue in Pod, I think Grimgrin, Corpse Born could be amazing. He destroys a creature when he attacks, yikes!
in therey, no not in classic at all. but, last nights de a titan deck could probably place.
in legacy there is a titan deck, its not great but it was popular for a little while last year. it was pretty similar to the modern titan cloudpost decks, before they got banned. with candelabra of twanos.
SOM Duals = Bad.
They are going to drop like bricks. People are trying to get rid of them, and with the M12 ones not being reprinted, they have more applications in other formats. The SOM lands are worthless in a few months.
In paper while trying to get rid of a playset of foil Darkslick Shores I have to take a loss because nobody wants to pay that kind of money for cards cycling out.
And to the person above me, does Primeval Titan have any applications to Classic/Legacy? At all?
Good point! I guess for some reason I thought titans would rotate out before Wurmcoil, but I stand corrected. I agree that target sell time should be reduced to more the July timeframe to avoid any price degradation due to the rotation.
I thought this was interesting but I'm not quite clear about what happened between Mike and Zach or what Todd even did. I'm not trying to put down this article, I'm just intrigued and want to get the story. Thanks.
I'm totally for Sylvok Lifestaff (this links to the consideration on lifegaining too). It's really really powerful in pauper, and it's something only the standard pauper crowd really realized so far.
hooray, next week you can show a classic event fired, too bad a legacy deck won the event:(
you really would up raven's crime to 3? Every time I've run it I never passed 2, it just felt unnecessary to go beyond since once you hit one you can recast it over and over
I like the analysis, but this seems like a bad pick; you're trying to project that Wurmcoil will increase its value into Sept. That means that despite rotation being soon (Oct right?), Wurmcoil will have increased from a current near-high price. If you want to predict a spike, it generally would be more of a Julyish timeframe (he's not the last Titan; M12 will rotate out with Wurmcoil), and you'd want to sell anything you were speculating on that was rotating soon.
I've won quite a bit recently with WG Tokens, it's true, there isn't a card in Paupers vast pool that reads, "Do something nasty to someone gaining life." Flaring Pain is about it for prevention, but if you can gain crazy life...lots of times you win, or you time the person out. I won last weeks DE vs. affinity and I had 203 life!
Re: Updates to "BUG DECK"
personally, I'd go with these changes...
2x wicker main (freeing up 1 spot) - 'doomblade' is probably the trump card vs. this affinity, and having 4 main is PLENTY for an average skilled player to win vs. any build of affinity.
2x warren (really a 5cc...you DO NOT want to see this in your first 12 cards) (Freeing up 2 spots)
Agony Warp is cute, but with so much storm, (present company guilty ;) I'd swap all 4 of these with 4x ech.decay...2/3rds of magic is sideboarding, and if you don't need em'...you just got a huge opening.
I'd add 2x Soul Manipulation main and 1 more raven's crime.
SIDEBOARD OVERHAUL....
4x duress
4x snuff out (infect)
4x festercreep (additional insurance vs. storm)
3x Sylvok Lifestaff (need only see 'Signal's' Goblin build to understand how powerful this card is mid-late game.
You know I have to say that when I started this article and included that BUG deck it never crossed my mind about trying to update it, but it seems to have peeked the most interest... perhaps I should have!
@ Kuma - Oracle probably would be a good add, but again I didn't update the deck and the list is pre-oracle, the deck can stack crits pretty well as is hitting a creature drop each turn, but I do see where the deck could use a bit more of an edge, maybe I'll attempt a revamp for a later article
@Fast - I think perhaps an updated version of the BUG deck could get an edge on MBC since it has an expanse of elements beyond MBC where the focus is only Discard/Kill.. what I liked most about the deck is that it has draw/ramp/evasion/kill/discard
Perhaps you're right, I really do think there is a lot of power behind life gain in Pauper, just look at the impact Glimmerpost has alone.. if you look at the Orz deck with Pest that's been showing here and there it has that element I was talking about in a life focus, running 4 crossroads + riftwatchers + renewed faith... we also see it with the emergence of the deck I call DimirTrinket which uses the lifestaff.. also there was the GW token deck that brings in the Midnight Pressence combo and the sisters, but with so many Warden triggers it times you out.. you nailed the problem though in finding the wincon, but the answer would probably come in a form of white aggro or the better option being the OrzDW deck, which uses the pest and guardian of the guildpact for the win
With regards to tilling thunder I do feel I've played you using that deck since I've only seen the Looting use once and I think its a great idea.. with the retrace you'd have an extra wincon in the flame jab... I have seen others playing this deck where the only creature base is a full set of cartographer and the treefolk, but against a deck with enough kill these creatures won't be enough to bring out the aggro.. grim discovery has been a great add to solve this issue, but most games you still need to hit the burn spells to pull off the win... and further going back to our discussion on life gain that will wreck this deck into milling itself... as I mentioned in the video tilling thunder is an incredibly fun deck.. it brings in epic wins, but at the same time it has the potential to lose in epic fashion as well
The monkey in my brain says 'Yaaaay!'
First of all, excellent article and videos. Now on to musings. Do you think the BUG deck has some advantages over a traditional pauper mono black deck as both decks rely on the power of two for ones (the BUG deck is nearly all two for ones).
Secondly on you comment about life gain. I feel there is a lot of untapped potential of a pauper life gainish deck (martyr, squadron hawks, soul wardens and if you are feeling really mean grim harvest) but I am unsure of how to win a game outside of rage quits (after you cast grim harvest for the 10th time). What are you thoughts of a decent win condition for such a deck.
Lastly, about tilling thunder. I have been playing a similar deck for a few weeks but more of a loam build (I wasn't aware of this decklist). 30ish lands lots of retrace and looting but I have found it hard to win. My only real win condition is cenn's enlistment. Maybe with you suggestion I could aggro up my deck a bit, we will see.
Thanks again for your insight
It seems to me that this is part of "One Million Word"s point... everyone who writes an article tends to say how easy it is and anyone can do it, but the truth is it's not. So he's putting this to the test, doing it in an "easy and simple" way it's good indicative evidence on whether it is easy or not.
You need so much knowledge of the game and history, there's a huge time and experience investment in being able to speculate and drive up your value. And I like your Elesh note, I got her late last year and sold her for 7 tix (didn't want to, she's great but needed the tix) a few months later and she's hitting the low 20s I drafted another, almost the same day she dropped back down to 12 tix - held her (partly in protest hehe!) and then one weekend all of a sudden I got 32 for her. You can make some educated guesses but there's a big luck factor going on unless you get really "hardcore" about and that's not an attractive option for the majority of players :)
I decided on a second Spellskite in that spot- one mainboard, the other in the sideboard.
Okay, so what would you put in its place instead?
In the BUG list, you are confident enough with the blue sources to run 12 blue cards maindeck. At this point, why not go all in and put even Sea Gate Oracle in place of Phyrexian Rager? (With some further adjustement in the mana base, of course).
Also, is Warren Pilferers so better than Gravedigger to justify the higher casting cost? At cc=5 the deck hopes to play a 2/2 flyer anyway. For the same reason, I'd cut something for a couple equipments. Maybe even just Sylvok Lifestaff, which is a pain in the ass for aggro decks (and this is casual, so you'd expect to face aggro a lot). For a deck with limited control elements, you need a clock a bit faster than 2 evasive damage, no?
I think if you are worried about Torpor Orb your deck has bigger problems. But OK.
There's only one problem....Harmonic Sliver won't destroy Torpor Orb. :p
haha it's very true, if you watch the videos I did mention I kept the original sideboard from the deck, which I saw probably over a year ago and couldn't even describe the sideboard choices lol just about every card in it is in those same "just to be different" lines
Teeg and Archon aren't incompatible. Imho solutions to artifacts/enchantments that require sacrifice/activation are less good than the enter the battlefield ones. Since there is no dearth of those I see no reason to use Qasali pridemage and crew unless you are hoping to transform into an aggro beatdown deck (ala Zoo) post sideboard.
Good stuff - that Bug list looks consistant, but the sideboard is awful. QUAG SICKNESS? This reeks of one of those choices someone makes 'just to be different' - there are over 30 better options.
Thanks for the suggestions! I put in Chalice of the Void, but haven't yet figured out how to use it.
I did try out Archon of Justice and it's a really good card. Unfortunately for the Modern format, I think everyone is going to end playing Urzatron, which means decks like Pod are going to need Gaddock Teeg all day long.
For artifact removal, I'm using Harmonic Sliver and Qasali Pridemage. If you're running blue in Pod, I think Grimgrin, Corpse Born could be amazing. He destroys a creature when he attacks, yikes!
Thanks deluxeicoff! Four stars for coverage and detail, but I give myself one star for gameplay...
Awesome. Thanks for letting us know. :)
Great breakdown/coverage & detail