There are always answers for everything in magic. This is a discussion I always seem to run into. But which is more powerful- Elesh Norn on turn 3/4 or Doom Blade on turn 3/4?
Doomblade
go for the throat
vapor snag
o-ring
grafdiggers cage
nihel spellbomb
dungeon geist
etc etc etc
there is no shortage of answers to either fatties or graveyards.
the fastest, and i mean fastest that you could ever get a fattie down is t3, and every single one of those above cards can answer either fattie or rites before it kills you.
1. american website, where we have freedom of religion and speech.
2. no one inserted a religious view . Two statements were made by 2 people 1 is an opinion about mr rodgers, 1 is a fact about mother teresa.
Modern does have a tendency to keep cards high, although I think it will drop a little at least from the rotation.
From earlier comment I agree - sell time is probably more the July timeframe to maximize selling potential.
I disagree with the statement that a card must be playable in a non-casual format to have long term value (to a degree). I think there are many cards that are not tourney viable that will have value. Although the value will be less for sure you will find some casual cards in the 5-10 tix range over time. As I mention, a card like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is an example, it was never a tourney card and never will be most likely however it has been a 5+ tix card even after getting reprinted. What do other people think on this topic?
Great article btw. On the whole Hall vs. Flores thing, I don't think anyone did anything wrong. Asking someone to actually beat you and not conceding shouldn't be seen as scumbaggery. Magic was meant to be played from 20 to 0 so why not actually make him go off? If Flores had just "shown him" then none of this would even be talked about, so it really feels like Flores just made a mistake.
As for the Todd Anderson thing, I met him a SCG Indianapolis this past year and he's a really nice guy. Never played against him, so I'm not saying he's a saint by any stretch, but he seems like a nice person. If he did in fact give some of his winnings to the person who got left out of Top 8, that seems more than reasonable. I would bet he just made a mathematical error. Plus, he didn't force his opponent to ID, so once again, his opponent could have avoided this. It was just a crappy break.
It's weird because I usually assume the worst in people, but here I'm giving the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, if you want be competitive, you'd have to get Grafdigger's Cage and a few more answers. That's not really an expensive card- it keeps falling.
I'm not suggesting that Unburial Rites should be banned no matter what, it's just that the deck feels so strong that I don't know why everyone isn't playing it. Ultimately, that's what will decide whether something gets banned- how many people play it. As an uncommon, it feels too strong for what it does, and if the deck is running white, it probably has Oblivion Ring too. I don't know that any deck is going to win just by playing turn 1 Grafdigger's.
The Unburial Rites combo might get weaker once the Scars block rotates. The Innistrad block feels less of a money set, meaning there aren't as many strong cards everywhere. I just look at it and go- turn 4 Elesh Norn...too strong for standard.
Banning Unburial Rites? Because you can reanimate a creature at turn 4? This is a budget article alright, but don't leave home without your sideboard cards.
I agree in a sense. This is why IDs still exist. Because the company who not only makes the game but the rules has decided they are an imperfect yet workable solution to problems in the way top 8s work. Yet there are some who would rather the option did not exist.
Yet it is tangentially important. Every person who is accused of doing something wrong is being checked for integrity. Even if the accusation is totally false at some point there is a check. Also cheating is not the same thing. Cheating does indicate a total lack of integrity but this is not the only loss of integrity possible. People who think intentional draws are dishonorable or who feel that Jedi Mind Tricks are unethical are saying that the people who do them lack integrity.
I think this is where a lot of people get confused. You don't have to break the law to be a wrong doer. If you KNOW you did something wrong even if it was legal then you are a wrong doer. If those around you think you did something wrong, then they are going think of you as a wrong doer. Sometimes perception of wrong doing is strong enough that people will come right out and say it.
Wrong doers by definition lack integrity whether or not anyone thinks of them that way. The fact that society does not automatically protect us against every wrong with law just means "morality" has to take up the slack. A person's sense of morality should keep their actions in check for society. That this doesn't actually work is an indication of the divide in values that people have. Hence discussions of whether being a scumbag to someone in a game indicates a lack of integrity.
This is why people have public debates about stuff they think is wrong. They hope to sway others to their thinking and to show perhaps how some people who may have the public trust are not in fact acting in the public good. Without getting into specifics or taking sides in politics I am sure we can think of a lot of examples in the news these days.
Integrity was not really related to these situations; niether one cheated someone (although you could argue that Todd sort-of did, but I wouldn't), no one did anything that was against the rules of MTG, etc.
I actually said less controversial, indicating I believe Mr. Rodgers to be a better person than Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa is in fact highly controversial, which is why I used the qualifier.
Mother Teresa was a bitter old woman who was against birth control in one of the poorest places on earth. Don't use her as a saint (even if she is one).
Ah, OK - thanks for the clarification! I wish people would say "I think and it is being hinted that X isn't going to be reprinted" rather than "Since X isn't being reprinted, and they're replacing it with an Uncommon cycle..." when speculating.
I'm guessing that one of four scenarios happens in M13:
1) the M10 duals are back alone
2) the M10 duals are back with the ISD duals to make the cycle complete
3) the shocklands are back
4) a new rare cycle of dual lands is introduced
I also enjoy paper a lot more too, but all the other factors in paper do really annoy me. A big one for me is opponents slow playing. Without constantly having a judge watching you, can be to finish a match with a lot of opponents when the games go to 1-1.
Ugh, I hear that the rumor is that Goyf is coming before every single set is released. It being in future sight (and the future part of it is that it revealed Planeswalkers as a card type,) tripped a lot of people out.
Wurmcoil should drop considerably before rotation, especially since there will be so many unredeemed promo copies floating around, and it was 0 legacy implications and is a 1-of in a few modern decks. I have no idea where it stabilizes long term, but I would imagine it will be much lower than you think.
For a card to have long term value, it has to be playable in non-casual formats, and Wurmcoil barely meets that critera. Wurmcoil is not ever going to be an all-star in Modern or Legacy, where Path and Swords are legal. The higher the CMC, the less value it has long term, as a general rule. Look at Baneslayer, first it was 50, then it was 25, then 10, now its a 3-5 ticket card, and it has actually seen legacy play (insanely).
I would rather buy something from SOM block that stands the test of time. The swords, Elesh Norn and Batterskull will all see play past rotation and will drop in price before that happens.
A perfect example of amoral thinking. Well done. Short-SIGHTEDness aside, there is a certain type of person who chooses personal integrity over any potential prize and is amazed when others lack their sense of morality.
Calling people names ("Mr Rogers"? lol) only displays your contempt for your fellow human beings. Again congrats. Though perhaps not so politic to announce it so bluntly. Most people at least pretend to be part of the norm. :)
Modern has a funny way of keeping cards expensive. I don't think Wurmcoil Engine will be any exception. Buy some close or after rotation, then sell after the next season starts up.
There are always answers for everything in magic. This is a discussion I always seem to run into. But which is more powerful- Elesh Norn on turn 3/4 or Doom Blade on turn 3/4?
Doomblade
go for the throat
vapor snag
o-ring
grafdiggers cage
nihel spellbomb
dungeon geist
etc etc etc
there is no shortage of answers to either fatties or graveyards.
the fastest, and i mean fastest that you could ever get a fattie down is t3, and every single one of those above cards can answer either fattie or rites before it kills you.
2 thingz doctor of jetz,
1. american website, where we have freedom of religion and speech.
2. no one inserted a religious view . Two statements were made by 2 people 1 is an opinion about mr rodgers, 1 is a fact about mother teresa.
Please don't insert your own religious views into the conversation, especially when they are ignorant.
Thanks!
nice to see a draft again for us drafters, the massive amount of responses I think says "more draft stuff"
Modern does have a tendency to keep cards high, although I think it will drop a little at least from the rotation.
From earlier comment I agree - sell time is probably more the July timeframe to maximize selling potential.
I disagree with the statement that a card must be playable in a non-casual format to have long term value (to a degree). I think there are many cards that are not tourney viable that will have value. Although the value will be less for sure you will find some casual cards in the 5-10 tix range over time. As I mention, a card like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is an example, it was never a tourney card and never will be most likely however it has been a 5+ tix card even after getting reprinted. What do other people think on this topic?
Great article btw. On the whole Hall vs. Flores thing, I don't think anyone did anything wrong. Asking someone to actually beat you and not conceding shouldn't be seen as scumbaggery. Magic was meant to be played from 20 to 0 so why not actually make him go off? If Flores had just "shown him" then none of this would even be talked about, so it really feels like Flores just made a mistake.
As for the Todd Anderson thing, I met him a SCG Indianapolis this past year and he's a really nice guy. Never played against him, so I'm not saying he's a saint by any stretch, but he seems like a nice person. If he did in fact give some of his winnings to the person who got left out of Top 8, that seems more than reasonable. I would bet he just made a mathematical error. Plus, he didn't force his opponent to ID, so once again, his opponent could have avoided this. It was just a crappy break.
It's weird because I usually assume the worst in people, but here I'm giving the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, if you want be competitive, you'd have to get Grafdigger's Cage and a few more answers. That's not really an expensive card- it keeps falling.
I'm not suggesting that Unburial Rites should be banned no matter what, it's just that the deck feels so strong that I don't know why everyone isn't playing it. Ultimately, that's what will decide whether something gets banned- how many people play it. As an uncommon, it feels too strong for what it does, and if the deck is running white, it probably has Oblivion Ring too. I don't know that any deck is going to win just by playing turn 1 Grafdigger's.
The Unburial Rites combo might get weaker once the Scars block rotates. The Innistrad block feels less of a money set, meaning there aren't as many strong cards everywhere. I just look at it and go- turn 4 Elesh Norn...too strong for standard.
Hall did nothing wrong. Flores blundered and paid for it.
Flores essentially said "look i have x, just conceed." Hall says "show me"
Hall didnt say i lose or i scoop or anything close to that. its not his fault that Flores screwed up an on board win.
Banning Unburial Rites? Because you can reanimate a creature at turn 4? This is a budget article alright, but don't leave home without your sideboard cards.
I agree in a sense. This is why IDs still exist. Because the company who not only makes the game but the rules has decided they are an imperfect yet workable solution to problems in the way top 8s work. Yet there are some who would rather the option did not exist.
Yet it is tangentially important. Every person who is accused of doing something wrong is being checked for integrity. Even if the accusation is totally false at some point there is a check. Also cheating is not the same thing. Cheating does indicate a total lack of integrity but this is not the only loss of integrity possible. People who think intentional draws are dishonorable or who feel that Jedi Mind Tricks are unethical are saying that the people who do them lack integrity.
I think this is where a lot of people get confused. You don't have to break the law to be a wrong doer. If you KNOW you did something wrong even if it was legal then you are a wrong doer. If those around you think you did something wrong, then they are going think of you as a wrong doer. Sometimes perception of wrong doing is strong enough that people will come right out and say it.
Wrong doers by definition lack integrity whether or not anyone thinks of them that way. The fact that society does not automatically protect us against every wrong with law just means "morality" has to take up the slack. A person's sense of morality should keep their actions in check for society. That this doesn't actually work is an indication of the divide in values that people have. Hence discussions of whether being a scumbag to someone in a game indicates a lack of integrity.
This is why people have public debates about stuff they think is wrong. They hope to sway others to their thinking and to show perhaps how some people who may have the public trust are not in fact acting in the public good. Without getting into specifics or taking sides in politics I am sure we can think of a lot of examples in the news these days.
Integrity was not really related to these situations; niether one cheated someone (although you could argue that Todd sort-of did, but I wouldn't), no one did anything that was against the rules of MTG, etc.
Plenty of Magic players will tell you they have integrity; choosing that integrity over prizes in competitive Magic is a misplaced fallacy.
Poor Night Revelers...I actually like that card!
I actually said less controversial, indicating I believe Mr. Rodgers to be a better person than Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa is in fact highly controversial, which is why I used the qualifier.
Mother Teresa was a bitter old woman who was against birth control in one of the poorest places on earth. Don't use her as a saint (even if she is one).
Ah, OK - thanks for the clarification! I wish people would say "I think and it is being hinted that X isn't going to be reprinted" rather than "Since X isn't being reprinted, and they're replacing it with an Uncommon cycle..." when speculating.
I'm guessing that one of four scenarios happens in M13:
1) the M10 duals are back alone
2) the M10 duals are back with the ISD duals to make the cycle complete
3) the shocklands are back
4) a new rare cycle of dual lands is introduced
I also enjoy paper a lot more too, but all the other factors in paper do really annoy me. A big one for me is opponents slow playing. Without constantly having a judge watching you, can be to finish a match with a lot of opponents when the games go to 1-1.
Ugh, I hear that the rumor is that Goyf is coming before every single set is released. It being in future sight (and the future part of it is that it revealed Planeswalkers as a card type,) tripped a lot of people out.
Wurmcoil should drop considerably before rotation, especially since there will be so many unredeemed promo copies floating around, and it was 0 legacy implications and is a 1-of in a few modern decks. I have no idea where it stabilizes long term, but I would imagine it will be much lower than you think.
For a card to have long term value, it has to be playable in non-casual formats, and Wurmcoil barely meets that critera. Wurmcoil is not ever going to be an all-star in Modern or Legacy, where Path and Swords are legal. The higher the CMC, the less value it has long term, as a general rule. Look at Baneslayer, first it was 50, then it was 25, then 10, now its a 3-5 ticket card, and it has actually seen legacy play (insanely).
I would rather buy something from SOM block that stands the test of time. The swords, Elesh Norn and Batterskull will all see play past rotation and will drop in price before that happens.
Nice lag double post...deleted for sake of not being utterly confusing.
A perfect example of amoral thinking. Well done. Short-SIGHTEDness aside, there is a certain type of person who chooses personal integrity over any potential prize and is amazed when others lack their sense of morality.
Calling people names ("Mr Rogers"? lol) only displays your contempt for your fellow human beings. Again congrats. Though perhaps not so politic to announce it so bluntly. Most people at least pretend to be part of the norm. :)
Modern has a funny way of keeping cards expensive. I don't think Wurmcoil Engine will be any exception. Buy some close or after rotation, then sell after the next season starts up.