Okay so the test event in Gatherling is up now. If any of you would like to come and test the deck processor you may. The event is called Tribal Test Event and will be up for the next 7 days. Pre-Register for the event the normal way and then you can enter test decks to see how Gatherling processes them and selects the tribe. If you find any errors feel free to report them to me along with the Gatherling output so I can fix it.
And Paul, I split the creature type field with the explode function which breaks the string into an array for using the spaces as a deliminator, that way I can just process the tribe sub types using a foreach loop.
If you have any skepticism, you should consider talking to the various people who run events on the web site.
Gatherling.com does nothing but provide a tool set and a centralized location to people who want to run events. The events on the site are not run by the people who run the site, they are run by an assortment of different people who are using those tools.
Nothing is asked of the series that come to gatherling, they do not have policy dictated to them, they do not lose any control of their own series, and they are free to leave with it if they decide they don't want to continue.
The only real centralizing element of the site is a mailing list that goes out to all the event hosts talking about new features being added and asking if people have any requests for features that would make it easier for them to run events.
I'm not quite sure what the site appears to be doing that you don't like, but I am kind of curious.
You seem to be under the impression that events on gatherling.com give up their independence somehow and fall under the control of someone else.
At the end of the day, the gatherling.com web site is a just a set of tools to run events and collect and display data about those events and a hub to make those events easier to find. When someone brings a series to gatherling, they are given access to these tools, but they are not asked to give up any control at all.
The people who run gatherling.com do not take over any aspect of running the series on the site, they only provide tools to the people who continue to run those series however they want.
You don't have to worry about what the gatherling people might do with the event because the only people with any say about how the event is run are still the original series organizers.
Well done - I really like your use of a screengrab - in this day/age of videos all over the place, it's nice to rest your eyes on a 'frozen in time' example...really helps soak in.
If any of you out there are Geeks like me (Yes I may look like a big hillbilly, but make no mistake, I am geek through and through hehe, here is a sample of the output from the tribe selection routine to show you how Gatherling makes the tribe selection. This output will not be in the final code in Gatherling, but is in right now so I can make sure Gatherling makes the correct decisions, and if not, why. When I get a chance, I will create a test event for any of you to join so you can enter TribAp decks and see how Gatherling processes them.
Processing Card Champion of the Parish
Selecting card type for card = Champion of the Parish
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Doomed Traveler
Selecting card type for card = Doomed Traveler
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Field Marshal
Selecting card type for card = Field Marshal
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Precinct Captain
Selecting card type for card = Precinct Captain
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Ranger of Eos
Selecting card type for card = Ranger of Eos
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Dryad Militant
Selecting card type for card = Dryad Militant
Creature Type = Dryad Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Dryad
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Student of Warfare
Selecting card type for card = Student of Warfare
Creature Type = Human Knight
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Knight
Pre-Shapeshifter Routine SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Dryad 1
Knight 1
Performing Shapeshifter routine...
Post-Shapeshifter Routine SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Dryad 1
Knight 1
Shapeshifter 0
Pre-Sorted SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Dryad 1
Knight 1
Shapeshifter 0
After Sorting SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Knight 1
Dryad 1
Shapeshifter 0
Two or more tribes are tied for largest tribe. They are:
Human 21 which has a frequency in Gatherling database of 1852
Soldier 21 which has a frequency in Gatherling database of 537
Lowest Frequechy Tribe is then selected: Soldier
Getting ready to return data tribe. Tribe Key: Soldier Count: 21
Tribe: Soldier is the biggest tribe with 21 members.
Data Received Back:
Tribe: Soldier. Number to be legal: 20 count: 21
I just wanted to chime in and say hello to everyone. Put my 2 cents in for what they are worth.
Let me first say that I am absolutely thrilled about Tribal Apocalypse coming to Gatherling.com. It was a huge disappointment for me when BlippyTheSlug first started bringing his Modern events to Gatherling, that Tribal Apocalypse was not one of the series that came to Gatherling.com (There is a whole story here within itself).
Once I heard Blippy was turning the TribAp series over to Kumagoro, I immediately contacted him and asked if he would be interested in moving the event to Gatherling.com, and yes, I was disappointed yet again when Kuma turned me down.
I have always wanted to play in a Tribal Wars event, and I love the Legacy card pool. Believe me when I say, if I had the time, I would be a regular at TribAp. I say this so you know that I am a fan of this event and want to see it translated to Gatherling.com correctly.
Since Kuma messaged me and told me he was ready to make the leap of faith and bring TribAp to Gatherling.com, I have been working diligently to get Gatherling ready for the leap. Here are the steps I have taken so far to prepare Gatherling for TribAp.
1) Updated the Gatherling deck database to hold all the additional information it will need for TribAp. So the deck database now has a column for the tribe and the format now has been updated to recognize Tribal events.
2) Updated Gatherling's Format Editor so that events can now use the Tribal Deck Modifier.
3) Updated the Gatherling's deck validator to auto-recognize a deck's tribe and verify that the tribe has enough members. If two or more tribes have the same number, Gatherling will even select the correct tribe by frequency.
4) After round 1, Gatherling will automatically show what tribe each player is on in the metagame reports. You still will have to wait till the end of the event to see the deck lists though.
5) Updated Gatherling's rating system by creating a Tribal Wars rating. So you will all know exactly what your rating is, and it will automatically be updated after each event you play in.
6) Tribal Apocalyse will have its own working Ban list and Restricted List.
And here is what is in the works:
1) Creating Custom formats for each TribAp format. (Singleton,
2) Adding the ability to use a different deck each round of an event. Like is used in the Invitational.
3) I still have to implement the Tribe Only bans for Stoneforge Mystic, Emrakul the Aeons Torn, Iona Shield of Emeria, and Progenitus.
So as you guys can see, there has already been a lot of progress. I want you all to know that I will work diligently and faithfully to help Kuma make this transition to Gatherling be successful and will work hard to provide you with all the tools you need to run this event. And don't forget you will be gaining all of Gatherling's core features as well.
So in response to RexDart's concerns and skepticism, you are right to be skeptical and have concerns. I do completely understand your concerns and am very thankful to get this great opportunity to help the Tribal Apocalypse series. Hopefully you all see with the latest Gatherling Updates that I am taking it seriously, and I am going to work diligently and faithfully to make this transition to Gatherling.com a successful one.
I wanted to say thank you also to Nagarjuna and mihahitlor for your words of support, and also to Kumagoro and the rest of the Tribal Apocalypse community for giving me this opportunity. If anyone has any further concerns, or just have ideas for something they would like to see implemented in Gatherling for Tribal Apocalypse, you can send me a message in Gatherling's online messaging service here:
No, it wasn't off screen, it was during sideboarding. Yeah, it wasn't really a lot of trash talking, but it was more than what I had seen playing in these events so it put me off more than it probably should've. If he had brought in countermagic, his first counter would've gotten me, but after that I would've played around a counter. That being said, if he gets a good draw backed up with countermagic, it really puts me in a bad spot and probably shifts the matchup significantly in his favor. Ghost Quarter is legal, and probably the best option towards land hate we have in Standard Heirloom.
There is Ghost Quarter (and Acidic Slime if you're playing Green). I was about to say that resolving Witchbane Orb is game over for an UB mill deck, but then saw that Mind Grind doesn't target.
In your match vs JTI he does most of the talking, and I never see you call him anything...was that off screen? Honestly I thought he lived up to his name a bit but more or less deliberately, not because he's an actual idiot but because he likes playing the fool.
Also that was not a lot of trash talk from him compared to some I have seen. In PREs no less. I was wondering how you would do if you faced his deck with negates etc sided in against you. It seems like a timely counter or two would have set your plan back a lot. Though getting Drownyard down and active cuts through some of that. Also wondering if there is any playable land hate in Heirloom these days.
Also my mono black pod and golgari pod were brews I tried though I think we vetoed them for 2hg because they didn't quite have the power/diversity of the other variations.
Hey, I didn't want to cause more competition in the events I play in! :)
And yeah, both Restoration Angel and the Conscripts have been vastly influential, but I see most of the wins are still done with Melira. I won't mind if at some point they would ban Chord of Calling. :)
By the way, I realize I didn't explain how the Conscripts mechanic actually works with the Pod. I know that most of my readers know that perfectly, but since it didn't occur to me at first when I saw the card for the first time, I'll just clarify: the "take control of a permanent and untap it" clause doesn't specify to whom that permanent should belong to in the first place, so you basically "take control" of your own Pod, ending up simply untapping it. Nice abuse here. :)
I like the Bant better myself, but it's harder to pull off. And Keiga was there for a while, and it's probably coming back the next time I'll use the deck.
I ran Naya too, I think I won two events with that (you still do Redcap into Kiki into Conscript in the same turn, other than Resto/Kiki.) Hell, I ran dozens of combinations, even weird ones like an almost entirely mono-red Pod with maindeck Blood Moons (which always had unbelievable bad luck in the matchups, including one event where I faced 2 other mono-red builds -- the sheer quantity of RDW/Burn in the PRE meta was strongly against that strategy anyway.) Or a soft combo with Yosei, which is also something one might want to try. But if had to list everything that you can possible do with the shell, the article would likely have been three times longer. :)
When it came to make two decks encompassing all the 5 colors and run them on a more recurring basis (kind of what we discussed about Tribal decks, which in Modern comes more natural to me), I wanted to separate white and black, like I wrote. At that point, if I had put red with white, then the other deck would have been UBG, which didn't seem too attractive to me. Black doesn't help the Archmage too much, and I can't stress enough how powerful she is in these decks. You get to the point where the opponent is like, "Wait a minute, now you'll keep podding stuff in, and I can't kill the Pod nor sweep anymore?"
I think they should give the community power over some supported events. Just note the tourney price and number of players, mtgo spits out a prize pool, and go. Then, if we can set our own filters, we can have any format we want, launch any tourney we want, and go. I mean, seriously, there's little room if any for abuse, as the client would run the ticket collecting and prize generation, all you'd need then is a proper filter put in place by the host, and MTGO is selling tix for whatever format people want to play, and providing packs of the latest(Or even tix) for the prize pool, all handled server side. The only thing anyone would have to do is set up the event and send out invites, and people could run their deck against the filter and register, again, in client. Either way, people can play their own tourneys, PREs get prize support, and everyone is buying tix and some are winning packs. Playing what they want, when they get a group together.
The key with those 8 man queues is that 5 pack for a win. If you consistently 1 and 2, you can go over the hump in pack per ticket. For instance, in 2 mans, 2 tix wins 1 pack. In an 8 man, you can win 5 packs for 6 tix. 2nd place's 3 packs is the same as winning 3 straight heads up matches.
Okay so the test event in Gatherling is up now. If any of you would like to come and test the deck processor you may. The event is called Tribal Test Event and will be up for the next 7 days. Pre-Register for the event the normal way and then you can enter test decks to see how Gatherling processes them and selects the tribe. If you find any errors feel free to report them to me along with the Gatherling output so I can fix it.
And Paul, I split the creature type field with the explode function which breaks the string into an array for using the spaces as a deliminator, that way I can just process the tribe sub types using a foreach loop.
If you have any skepticism, you should consider talking to the various people who run events on the web site.
Gatherling.com does nothing but provide a tool set and a centralized location to people who want to run events. The events on the site are not run by the people who run the site, they are run by an assortment of different people who are using those tools.
Nothing is asked of the series that come to gatherling, they do not have policy dictated to them, they do not lose any control of their own series, and they are free to leave with it if they decide they don't want to continue.
The only real centralizing element of the site is a mailing list that goes out to all the event hosts talking about new features being added and asking if people have any requests for features that would make it easier for them to run events.
I'm not quite sure what the site appears to be doing that you don't like, but I am kind of curious.
You seem to be under the impression that events on gatherling.com give up their independence somehow and fall under the control of someone else.
At the end of the day, the gatherling.com web site is a just a set of tools to run events and collect and display data about those events and a hub to make those events easier to find. When someone brings a series to gatherling, they are given access to these tools, but they are not asked to give up any control at all.
The people who run gatherling.com do not take over any aspect of running the series on the site, they only provide tools to the people who continue to run those series however they want.
You don't have to worry about what the gatherling people might do with the event because the only people with any say about how the event is run are still the original series organizers.
Thx for the feedback, I'll definitely look to use screenshots where appropriate in the future.
Looks good Dabil :) I assume you used a reg ex split on the creature type field.
Well done - I really like your use of a screengrab - in this day/age of videos all over the place, it's nice to rest your eyes on a 'frozen in time' example...really helps soak in.
If any of you out there are Geeks like me (Yes I may look like a big hillbilly, but make no mistake, I am geek through and through hehe, here is a sample of the output from the tribe selection routine to show you how Gatherling makes the tribe selection. This output will not be in the final code in Gatherling, but is in right now so I can make sure Gatherling makes the correct decisions, and if not, why. When I get a chance, I will create a test event for any of you to join so you can enter TribAp decks and see how Gatherling processes them.
Processing Card Champion of the Parish
Selecting card type for card = Champion of the Parish
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Doomed Traveler
Selecting card type for card = Doomed Traveler
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Field Marshal
Selecting card type for card = Field Marshal
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Precinct Captain
Selecting card type for card = Precinct Captain
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Ranger of Eos
Selecting card type for card = Ranger of Eos
Creature Type = Human Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Dryad Militant
Selecting card type for card = Dryad Militant
Creature Type = Dryad Soldier
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Dryad
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Soldier
Processing Card Student of Warfare
Selecting card type for card = Student of Warfare
Creature Type = Human Knight
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Human
After Exploding subtype Sub Type = Knight
Pre-Shapeshifter Routine SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Dryad 1
Knight 1
Performing Shapeshifter routine...
Post-Shapeshifter Routine SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Dryad 1
Knight 1
Shapeshifter 0
Pre-Sorted SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Dryad 1
Knight 1
Shapeshifter 0
After Sorting SubType List
Human 21
Soldier 21
Knight 1
Dryad 1
Shapeshifter 0
Two or more tribes are tied for largest tribe. They are:
Human 21 which has a frequency in Gatherling database of 1852
Soldier 21 which has a frequency in Gatherling database of 537
Lowest Frequechy Tribe is then selected: Soldier
Getting ready to return data tribe. Tribe Key: Soldier Count: 21
Tribe: Soldier is the biggest tribe with 21 members.
Data Received Back:
Tribe: Soldier. Number to be legal: 20 count: 21
I just wanted to chime in and say hello to everyone. Put my 2 cents in for what they are worth.
Let me first say that I am absolutely thrilled about Tribal Apocalypse coming to Gatherling.com. It was a huge disappointment for me when BlippyTheSlug first started bringing his Modern events to Gatherling, that Tribal Apocalypse was not one of the series that came to Gatherling.com (There is a whole story here within itself).
Once I heard Blippy was turning the TribAp series over to Kumagoro, I immediately contacted him and asked if he would be interested in moving the event to Gatherling.com, and yes, I was disappointed yet again when Kuma turned me down.
I have always wanted to play in a Tribal Wars event, and I love the Legacy card pool. Believe me when I say, if I had the time, I would be a regular at TribAp. I say this so you know that I am a fan of this event and want to see it translated to Gatherling.com correctly.
Since Kuma messaged me and told me he was ready to make the leap of faith and bring TribAp to Gatherling.com, I have been working diligently to get Gatherling ready for the leap. Here are the steps I have taken so far to prepare Gatherling for TribAp.
1) Updated the Gatherling deck database to hold all the additional information it will need for TribAp. So the deck database now has a column for the tribe and the format now has been updated to recognize Tribal events.
2) Updated Gatherling's Format Editor so that events can now use the Tribal Deck Modifier.
3) Updated the Gatherling's deck validator to auto-recognize a deck's tribe and verify that the tribe has enough members. If two or more tribes have the same number, Gatherling will even select the correct tribe by frequency.
4) After round 1, Gatherling will automatically show what tribe each player is on in the metagame reports. You still will have to wait till the end of the event to see the deck lists though.
5) Updated Gatherling's rating system by creating a Tribal Wars rating. So you will all know exactly what your rating is, and it will automatically be updated after each event you play in.
6) Tribal Apocalyse will have its own working Ban list and Restricted List.
And here is what is in the works:
1) Creating Custom formats for each TribAp format. (Singleton,
2) Adding the ability to use a different deck each round of an event. Like is used in the Invitational.
3) I still have to implement the Tribe Only bans for Stoneforge Mystic, Emrakul the Aeons Torn, Iona Shield of Emeria, and Progenitus.
So as you guys can see, there has already been a lot of progress. I want you all to know that I will work diligently and faithfully to help Kuma make this transition to Gatherling be successful and will work hard to provide you with all the tools you need to run this event. And don't forget you will be gaining all of Gatherling's core features as well.
So in response to RexDart's concerns and skepticism, you are right to be skeptical and have concerns. I do completely understand your concerns and am very thankful to get this great opportunity to help the Tribal Apocalypse series. Hopefully you all see with the latest Gatherling Updates that I am taking it seriously, and I am going to work diligently and faithfully to make this transition to Gatherling.com a successful one.
I wanted to say thank you also to Nagarjuna and mihahitlor for your words of support, and also to Kumagoro and the rest of the Tribal Apocalypse community for giving me this opportunity. If anyone has any further concerns, or just have ideas for something they would like to see implemented in Gatherling for Tribal Apocalypse, you can send me a message in Gatherling's online messaging service here:
http://www.gatherling.com/message.php?mode=Send&type=Update%20Request
No, it wasn't off screen, it was during sideboarding. Yeah, it wasn't really a lot of trash talking, but it was more than what I had seen playing in these events so it put me off more than it probably should've. If he had brought in countermagic, his first counter would've gotten me, but after that I would've played around a counter. That being said, if he gets a good draw backed up with countermagic, it really puts me in a bad spot and probably shifts the matchup significantly in his favor. Ghost Quarter is legal, and probably the best option towards land hate we have in Standard Heirloom.
There is Ghost Quarter (and Acidic Slime if you're playing Green). I was about to say that resolving Witchbane Orb is game over for an UB mill deck, but then saw that Mind Grind doesn't target.
I know Geist is a tool that any stompy deck would be happy to have, Hasty undying goodness.
In your match vs JTI he does most of the talking, and I never see you call him anything...was that off screen? Honestly I thought he lived up to his name a bit but more or less deliberately, not because he's an actual idiot but because he likes playing the fool.
Also that was not a lot of trash talk from him compared to some I have seen. In PREs no less. I was wondering how you would do if you faced his deck with negates etc sided in against you. It seems like a timely counter or two would have set your plan back a lot. Though getting Drownyard down and active cuts through some of that. Also wondering if there is any playable land hate in Heirloom these days.
Nice article aside from a few proofable errors.
Also my mono black pod and golgari pod were brews I tried though I think we vetoed them for 2hg because they didn't quite have the power/diversity of the other variations.
I remember you using Venser Pod in those 2HG games, which is something I never happened to do, but I mentioned it because of you. :)
Hey, I didn't want to cause more competition in the events I play in! :)
And yeah, both Restoration Angel and the Conscripts have been vastly influential, but I see most of the wins are still done with Melira. I won't mind if at some point they would ban Chord of Calling. :)
By the way, I realize I didn't explain how the Conscripts mechanic actually works with the Pod. I know that most of my readers know that perfectly, but since it didn't occur to me at first when I saw the card for the first time, I'll just clarify: the "take control of a permanent and untap it" clause doesn't specify to whom that permanent should belong to in the first place, so you basically "take control" of your own Pod, ending up simply untapping it. Nice abuse here. :)
Thank you! :)
I like the Bant better myself, but it's harder to pull off. And Keiga was there for a while, and it's probably coming back the next time I'll use the deck.
I ran Naya too, I think I won two events with that (you still do Redcap into Kiki into Conscript in the same turn, other than Resto/Kiki.) Hell, I ran dozens of combinations, even weird ones like an almost entirely mono-red Pod with maindeck Blood Moons (which always had unbelievable bad luck in the matchups, including one event where I faced 2 other mono-red builds -- the sheer quantity of RDW/Burn in the PRE meta was strongly against that strategy anyway.) Or a soft combo with Yosei, which is also something one might want to try. But if had to list everything that you can possible do with the shell, the article would likely have been three times longer. :)
When it came to make two decks encompassing all the 5 colors and run them on a more recurring basis (kind of what we discussed about Tribal decks, which in Modern comes more natural to me), I wanted to separate white and black, like I wrote. At that point, if I had put red with white, then the other deck would have been UBG, which didn't seem too attractive to me. Black doesn't help the Archmage too much, and I can't stress enough how powerful she is in these decks. You get to the point where the opponent is like, "Wait a minute, now you'll keep podding stuff in, and I can't kill the Pod nor sweep anymore?"
I think they should give the community power over some supported events. Just note the tourney price and number of players, mtgo spits out a prize pool, and go. Then, if we can set our own filters, we can have any format we want, launch any tourney we want, and go. I mean, seriously, there's little room if any for abuse, as the client would run the ticket collecting and prize generation, all you'd need then is a proper filter put in place by the host, and MTGO is selling tix for whatever format people want to play, and providing packs of the latest(Or even tix) for the prize pool, all handled server side. The only thing anyone would have to do is set up the event and send out invites, and people could run their deck against the filter and register, again, in client. Either way, people can play their own tourneys, PREs get prize support, and everyone is buying tix and some are winning packs. Playing what they want, when they get a group together.
The key with those 8 man queues is that 5 pack for a win. If you consistently 1 and 2, you can go over the hump in pack per ticket. For instance, in 2 mans, 2 tix wins 1 pack. In an 8 man, you can win 5 packs for 6 tix. 2nd place's 3 packs is the same as winning 3 straight heads up matches.
Are they playing this game? I have a hard time figuring it out. - Scott Sohr
I really appreciate the creativity of the one who made the drawing. A good artist indeed. - Scott Sohr
If you give me your deck on Christmas Day, it will be the greatest gift ever. Please have a heart and give it to me. - Scott Sohr
Patience is essential when it comes to deckbuilding. A little error will mess things up. - O2 Media
They are trying to insinuate that riding a bicycle is easy. On the contrary it is not. It is opposite to being easy. - O2 Media
This game is really addictive. I am starting to learn this one. - Trident University