Deglamer! Completely forgot about this card. Good for dealing with Gods and other problem issues, and instant speed! Likely better than Fade into Antiquity in most cases. Don't forget this!
The Internet is a small place. I doubt that you know who I am by this PureMTGO name. But you might remember me as a one who made a certain hungry Cyclops eat all those poor Troglodytes.
thanks for the comment. I mentioned the removal in the first article, not the individual card reviews and didn't have much to say about it other than its hard to see a creature less deck existing in the meta, meaning it's upside over murder is unlikely to be huge. I initially had merchant and disciple individually spotlighted, but I spelt out the interaction I wanted to highlight in rescue and whip.
Hope you're right re purphuros, I just don't see it's power level in a vacuum.
All right, Next Level (First Level?) Blue exploiting devotion, but not in a tribal way because we want to explore new avenues (btw, even not using Merfolk, you could do well by using Faerie or Illusion.)
I made a first reconnaissance, based on the idea of only using creatures with more than 50% of blue symbols in their cost. I envision a soft-control midrange deck where you don't need a lot of early presence, you can just drop Thassa and let her do her thing before dropping a late finisher that also turns Thassa into a finisher, for an explosive endgame. You can follow that up with a Master of Waves if necessary, but I don't see the Master as central, more like a finishing strike, Supreme Verdict permitting.
So what do we get for this plan? Definitely Plumeveil is the first card to consider as something you drop along the road, that protects you (and possibly your early planeswalkers like Li'l Jace), enables a follow-up Master, and act as removal in most occasions. It's a great card that just currently doesn't have a home.
At that point, as we saw, anything will active Thassa's finishing mode, so a big Sphinx (Consecrate or Jwar Isle) seems the best option. But if we want something that fulfills the devotion threshold in one swell swoop, that's a work for the Spirit Avatars. Blue has decent ones, I'd say Ghastlord of Fugue and Overbeing of Myth are the best for-all-seasons ones. Overbeing is good if the deck has a lot of card drawing (as it should), maybe even splashing white for Sphinx's Revelation (and our own Supreme Verdicts), as white doesn't disturb Plumeveil.
Other options here: Teferi (who's always useful), Murkfiend Liege (who further pumps the Master tokens, gives everyone vigilance). For pure utility: Azami, Magus of the Future.
If we want something on the low side of the curve, CMC 3 is rich with 1UU or UUU: Nightveil Specter, Aether Adept or Wall of Frost for more tempo gain, Kira for protection, Cryptoplasm, Cold-Eyed Selkie (works well with the Liege), Calcite Snapper (which was a good target for Sovereign of Lost Alara/Eldrazi Conscription, so maybe that could even be the shell?). And then, of course, Vendilion Clique.
On other topics:
- "nothing else that was Indestructible, could become a creature and only cost 4." So, essentially, nothing else that was already Erebos? :P
- "I thought there was a non-Puresteel Cheeri0s in Modern that used Enduring Renewal?" I believe an Enduring Renewal combo in Modern does exist ("exist" being loosely used here), but that would be Fruity Pebbles, not Cheeri0s. I know, all these cereal names are confusing. May I say that I often find the name of the archetypes mightily stupid?
I find it interesting you don't mention Hero's Downfall or Gray Merchant outside of comments in other cards. I think they are very likely to be defining cards as well. Just going Whip of Erebos into Gray Merchant is an 8 point life swing on an empty board.
As for Purphoros, I think the hype is mostly in regard to standard which can play things like Burning Tree Emissary into hammer into a hasty god.
A bunch of stuff to respond to! Thanks again to everybody for the positive ratings!
@Elbinac - Sun Titan is the "infinite loop" with Gift of Immortality if you have a sac outlet. Blood Artist is infite damage/life (among lots of other cards) and Greater Good means you can draw your entire library. Melira Pod already exists in those colors, so a new "sacrifice" deck in those colors would need something special to stand out.
@olaw - The format can be fast, but between PRE's and the TPR I see a lot of 4 mana plays. Plus, the more powerful the format, the more ridiculous these splits wind up being. When people were first trying Jace, AoT, I had to do a 3 cards split of Snapacaster, LotV and Dismember. My hand was empty and I was trying to win on the back of a lone Aven Mindcesnor; it was pretty much a lose lose. Throwing 2 more cards into piles like that has a high chance of "crazy good". It might not find it's niche competing against Gifts and Revelation, but it has potential.
@Romellos and Kuma - Exactly! There are several cards that have started seeing use that people originally shrugged at. Honestly, who thought Daybreak Coronet would ever become a "chase rare"?
@Kuma
Master of Waves - I think "Merfolk of Bladehold" is still apt even in the way you describe using it. If it lives = "GG?", but it needs more support to get there than Hero would. Merfolk is the go to not only because of the tribal aspect, but because most of those merfolk all have 'U U' in the corner of the card. That means a lot for Master. I'm not sure which other blue aggro creatures are around that provide so much devotion and synergy for MoW? (might be fun to look though)
Thassa - I just meant Plumeveil itself provides 3/5 - both of them together is only 1 away. In some kind of U/x control match, I could see just having out a "devotionless" Thasa to help make your draws better.
Erebos - Yeah, I was sure there was some kind of Enchantment that did it, but nothing else that was Indestructible, could become a creature and only cost 4. I probably should have phrased that better? I hadn't really thought about grabbing it with Pod, but after the 2 Melira Pod mirror-matches in WAFTT yestrday, I feel like the 4 drops were always so crucial, that getting an "almost blank" 4 drop could be bad. Even if you are stopping the 2 infinite life combos, you could still just get infinite damaged out. It could be a good idea to SB in against UWR or Midrange since you can start drawing cards.
Purphoros - I thought there was a non-Puresteel Cheeri0s in Modern that used Enduring Renewal? If not, time to make one. :) There are a lot of different "creature loops" in Modern, heck, maybe Naya Purphoros could be the deck that uses Sun Titan/Gift?
The Color Green: Shhhhh. :) Besides, green is doing fine in Modern.
Elspeth 3.0 - I think right now she doesn't have a place. Her most useful ability will probably be her Retribution of the Meek mode. Most of the meta is based around 2/x and 3/x creatures. The most common 4/x (Celestial Colonnade, IMO) isn't around for sorcery speed removal to hit. After that, we are just looking at large Goyfs and other assorted things (Primeval, 'Lark, Wurmcoil, boosted Ascendant) Since she can't blow up most of the creatures, then we are looking at her +1 that makes 3 soldiers. This is only really good if you get to use it more then once. Otherwise, for 3 mana, Timely Reinforcements usually nets 6 life and 3 1/1's.
I'd say Gideon does a better job protecting the player against more things than Elspeth 3.0 will. If more big stompy decks start to take over, things might change.
whooh.
Please be sure to post any other comments here! Obviously I'll take the time to respond.
Nice. What do I need to do on reddit to get this too? 5000+ views looks awesome. I have not used reddit much and have never gained effects like this from it
Curse of the Swine: I get the sense this card will be used less than one might think. For starters, it's for blue decks that try and go solo, which aren't that common (you say Tron, but Tron doesn't hit double blue — or double colored in general — all that happily, because that means it's delaying its battleplan and durdling around. Which means Oblivion Stone >>>>[insert one hundred > symbols here]>>>> Curse of the Swine). If they are accompanied by white, black or red, why they should bother with a X-costed sweeper that doesn't entirely solve the board? In fact it doesn't even a card against heavy aggro. What are you gonna do, hit 3-4 Goblin Guides or assorted Moggs and make them better? Hit a bunch of Soul Sisters guys and see the opponent swing for lethal through your empty board? No, this is at its best with X=1 or X=2. Mostly in mono-blue decks. Which brings us to...
Master of Waves (et al.): You immediately thought of Merfolk, but it seems to me they're actually pushing (with this, Thassa, Nykthos, and Curse of the Swine) for mono-blue aggro decks that AREN'T Merfolk. Or aren't tribal either. There have to be a 12-15 good finishers in blue by now, no? I didn't check but it's worth trying. By the way, your devotion math might be a little off: with Thassa, you don't need 5 more symbols, you need 4, so Plumeveil is 3/4 of what you need, not 3/5 (unless you aren't just aiming for non-God-related devotion). Also: did you consider that you might wanna NOT hit Thassa's devotion, to prevent your free scryer/unblockable engine to be killed by Path to Exile?
Agent of Fates: The fact that you resort to using self-damage and self-milling to activate your Hero makes me think that Heroic is really unsalvageable. :)
Erebos: "I don' think there are any other Black cards that just stop your opponents from gaining life." Everlasting Torment. Erebos is a great Pod station in black-heavy builds, anyway. Strong sideboard option in general.
Purphoros: "Combo decks like "Cheeri0s", that are all about dropping as many creatures as they can into play". Aren't you thinking of Legacy Cheeri0S, though? You need Kobolds for that, no? And Glimpse of Nature, which is banned. I saw Modern versions with just Puresteel Paladin, lots of 0-cost artifacts, and Retract to recast them again and again (and Grapeshot for the kill). Maybe more like Quest for the Holy Relic decks? All these decks are almost manaless anyway (12-15 lands at best plus Moxen), so I don't think they can play a 4-mana dude (which would do nothing in the Paladin version, anyway). Plus, it would seem a win-more, since once those engine gets going, the game is over.
All in all I don't like Purphoros (and the Gods you don't even mention, but maybe a little more in the case of Heliod) because unlike Thassa and Erebos he doesn't impact the board in the slightest the turn he comes, and he needs for you to have another specific type of card at hand or he'll keep doing nothing, while Thassa and Erebos help you find what you — and they — need.
As for the missed cards, I would have liked to see your opinion on Elspeth 3.0. There are (admittedly odd) aggro/control builds that might like her, no?
I agree on Xenagos being an entirely new subject that requires an entirely new build. He might associate himself with Domri, though.
And boy, green really gets nothing of relevance this set, didn't it? Nemesis of Mortals is so clearly a pity mention from you. :)
Or like, "Daybreak Coronet? That's just crap, nobody will ever even think of playing it". Yep. :)
(I also remember Splinter Twin being considered a worthless Johnny toy, and even after Splinter.dek became a thing, Kiki-Jiki being considered too slow for Modern and just a cute oddity).
Something always happens along the road, says the wise man.
Great article to read, as per usual. The investment project was informative to follow, though I am not an investor - I simply buy cards I want to play with (I don't trade, much). It's unfortunate that you didn't make money in the grand scheme of things, and that the overall time committed was the equivalent of making much less than a minimum wage job.
It's obvious that Theros will not impact much to the Eternal formats like RtR did. Maybe it's still too early to say that by looking the first set. Who knows.
I believe some cards have potentials, like; Hero’s Downfall (Jund), Fleecemane Lion (maybe in GW Maverick), Steam Augury (???), Swan Song (R/U Storm or Splinter Twin decks, Soldier of the Pantheon (maybe in White Tax, not sure), Chained to the Rocks (maybe in some Naya Bogle)
I think Steam Augury is a strong card and it will see play in a dedicated deck one day. But I'm not sure how or under which deck shell. Recently, I saw some Grixis Control deck ideas for Modern that are using it. Personally, I don't expect Steam Augury to shine in a day or maybe it will take years.
Modern Meta is shifting constantly and this leave open door to any new possibilities. During the first year of Modern, people were thinking that there is no chance for Cryptic Command to see play as Blue Control type decks were assumed too weak. Then Snapcaster Mage came...
I agree. The investment project has provided an open and fair forum for people to predict price movements in advance instead of applying hindsight. I think Pete has done an awesome job in following the suggestions.
An interesting look at what Theros brings to Modern. I think I agree with your evaluations. There isn't anything that jumps out as being a standout in Modern. The Gods are probably the most interesting card but in a format with such good removal I doubt they are going to see much competitive play.
Steam Augury might see some play but sadly I think it's slightly too expensive to make a big impact. As good as Fact or Fiction is I think Modern is slightly too fast for it to be an amazing effect in Modern. The rest is not too exciting.
Deglamer! Completely forgot about this card. Good for dealing with Gods and other problem issues, and instant speed! Likely better than Fade into Antiquity in most cases. Don't forget this!
I don't know how you'd do the draft portion online but count me in!
Oh boy, you're pushing my memory past it's limits there - we're talking the better part of a decade here!
The Internet is a small place. I doubt that you know who I am by this PureMTGO name. But you might remember me as a one who made a certain hungry Cyclops eat all those poor Troglodytes.
thanks for the comment. I mentioned the removal in the first article, not the individual card reviews and didn't have much to say about it other than its hard to see a creature less deck existing in the meta, meaning it's upside over murder is unlikely to be huge. I initially had merchant and disciple individually spotlighted, but I spelt out the interaction I wanted to highlight in rescue and whip.
Hope you're right re purphuros, I just don't see it's power level in a vacuum.
Yep! Somehow I find myself writing content for every game I seriously play :)
All right, Next Level (First Level?) Blue exploiting devotion, but not in a tribal way because we want to explore new avenues (btw, even not using Merfolk, you could do well by using Faerie or Illusion.)
I made a first reconnaissance, based on the idea of only using creatures with more than 50% of blue symbols in their cost. I envision a soft-control midrange deck where you don't need a lot of early presence, you can just drop Thassa and let her do her thing before dropping a late finisher that also turns Thassa into a finisher, for an explosive endgame. You can follow that up with a Master of Waves if necessary, but I don't see the Master as central, more like a finishing strike, Supreme Verdict permitting.
So what do we get for this plan? Definitely Plumeveil is the first card to consider as something you drop along the road, that protects you (and possibly your early planeswalkers like Li'l Jace), enables a follow-up Master, and act as removal in most occasions. It's a great card that just currently doesn't have a home.
At that point, as we saw, anything will active Thassa's finishing mode, so a big Sphinx (Consecrate or Jwar Isle) seems the best option. But if we want something that fulfills the devotion threshold in one swell swoop, that's a work for the Spirit Avatars. Blue has decent ones, I'd say Ghastlord of Fugue and Overbeing of Myth are the best for-all-seasons ones. Overbeing is good if the deck has a lot of card drawing (as it should), maybe even splashing white for Sphinx's Revelation (and our own Supreme Verdicts), as white doesn't disturb Plumeveil.
Other options here: Teferi (who's always useful), Murkfiend Liege (who further pumps the Master tokens, gives everyone vigilance). For pure utility: Azami, Magus of the Future.
If we want something on the low side of the curve, CMC 3 is rich with 1UU or UUU: Nightveil Specter, Aether Adept or Wall of Frost for more tempo gain, Kira for protection, Cryptoplasm, Cold-Eyed Selkie (works well with the Liege), Calcite Snapper (which was a good target for Sovereign of Lost Alara/Eldrazi Conscription, so maybe that could even be the shell?). And then, of course, Vendilion Clique.
On other topics:
- "nothing else that was Indestructible, could become a creature and only cost 4." So, essentially, nothing else that was already Erebos? :P
- "I thought there was a non-Puresteel Cheeri0s in Modern that used Enduring Renewal?" I believe an Enduring Renewal combo in Modern does exist ("exist" being loosely used here), but that would be Fruity Pebbles, not Cheeri0s. I know, all these cereal names are confusing. May I say that I often find the name of the archetypes mightily stupid?
That username, are you the same Psychobabble that used to do reviews in celestialheavens.com?
I put together a Modern Silverblack cube on mtgo. Looking for drafters. Anyone up for it add me, vaultboyhunter.
Good article.
I find it interesting you don't mention Hero's Downfall or Gray Merchant outside of comments in other cards. I think they are very likely to be defining cards as well. Just going Whip of Erebos into Gray Merchant is an 8 point life swing on an empty board.
As for Purphoros, I think the hype is mostly in regard to standard which can play things like Burning Tree Emissary into hammer into a hasty god.
A bunch of stuff to respond to! Thanks again to everybody for the positive ratings!
@Elbinac - Sun Titan is the "infinite loop" with Gift of Immortality if you have a sac outlet. Blood Artist is infite damage/life (among lots of other cards) and Greater Good means you can draw your entire library. Melira Pod already exists in those colors, so a new "sacrifice" deck in those colors would need something special to stand out.
@olaw - The format can be fast, but between PRE's and the TPR I see a lot of 4 mana plays. Plus, the more powerful the format, the more ridiculous these splits wind up being. When people were first trying Jace, AoT, I had to do a 3 cards split of Snapacaster, LotV and Dismember. My hand was empty and I was trying to win on the back of a lone Aven Mindcesnor; it was pretty much a lose lose. Throwing 2 more cards into piles like that has a high chance of "crazy good". It might not find it's niche competing against Gifts and Revelation, but it has potential.
@Romellos and Kuma - Exactly! There are several cards that have started seeing use that people originally shrugged at. Honestly, who thought Daybreak Coronet would ever become a "chase rare"?
@Kuma
Master of Waves - I think "Merfolk of Bladehold" is still apt even in the way you describe using it. If it lives = "GG?", but it needs more support to get there than Hero would. Merfolk is the go to not only because of the tribal aspect, but because most of those merfolk all have 'U U' in the corner of the card. That means a lot for Master. I'm not sure which other blue aggro creatures are around that provide so much devotion and synergy for MoW? (might be fun to look though)
Thassa - I just meant Plumeveil itself provides 3/5 - both of them together is only 1 away. In some kind of U/x control match, I could see just having out a "devotionless" Thasa to help make your draws better.
Erebos - Yeah, I was sure there was some kind of Enchantment that did it, but nothing else that was Indestructible, could become a creature and only cost 4. I probably should have phrased that better? I hadn't really thought about grabbing it with Pod, but after the 2 Melira Pod mirror-matches in WAFTT yestrday, I feel like the 4 drops were always so crucial, that getting an "almost blank" 4 drop could be bad. Even if you are stopping the 2 infinite life combos, you could still just get infinite damaged out. It could be a good idea to SB in against UWR or Midrange since you can start drawing cards.
Purphoros - I thought there was a non-Puresteel Cheeri0s in Modern that used Enduring Renewal? If not, time to make one. :) There are a lot of different "creature loops" in Modern, heck, maybe Naya Purphoros could be the deck that uses Sun Titan/Gift?
The Color Green: Shhhhh. :) Besides, green is doing fine in Modern.
Elspeth 3.0 - I think right now she doesn't have a place. Her most useful ability will probably be her Retribution of the Meek mode. Most of the meta is based around 2/x and 3/x creatures. The most common 4/x (Celestial Colonnade, IMO) isn't around for sorcery speed removal to hit. After that, we are just looking at large Goyfs and other assorted things (Primeval, 'Lark, Wurmcoil, boosted Ascendant) Since she can't blow up most of the creatures, then we are looking at her +1 that makes 3 soldiers. This is only really good if you get to use it more then once. Otherwise, for 3 mana, Timely Reinforcements usually nets 6 life and 3 1/1's.
I'd say Gideon does a better job protecting the player against more things than Elspeth 3.0 will. If more big stompy decks start to take over, things might change.
whooh.
Please be sure to post any other comments here! Obviously I'll take the time to respond.
Great tip about reddit. Testing it right now on my Pauper Gauntlet competitor article that was already closing in on 4000 views.
It works like a charm.
Doctor Anime mentioned about the www.reddit.com/r/magictcg
at Leviathan's latest article, here:
http://puremtgo.com/articles/conqueror-commander-vol-cxxiii-theros-overv...
Yes :P, I have tried Doctor Anime's suggestion about the reddit. Well, I'm not thinking to use it every time. Maybe, when I got interesting decks.
Nice. What do I need to do on reddit to get this too? 5000+ views looks awesome. I have not used reddit much and have never gained effects like this from it
hehe, so did you do the reddit thing? Because you just jumped from about 300 to 5000 views. :) apparently we all really need to do that?
Great job. Some comments.
Curse of the Swine: I get the sense this card will be used less than one might think. For starters, it's for blue decks that try and go solo, which aren't that common (you say Tron, but Tron doesn't hit double blue — or double colored in general — all that happily, because that means it's delaying its battleplan and durdling around. Which means Oblivion Stone >>>>[insert one hundred > symbols here]>>>> Curse of the Swine). If they are accompanied by white, black or red, why they should bother with a X-costed sweeper that doesn't entirely solve the board? In fact it doesn't even a card against heavy aggro. What are you gonna do, hit 3-4 Goblin Guides or assorted Moggs and make them better? Hit a bunch of Soul Sisters guys and see the opponent swing for lethal through your empty board? No, this is at its best with X=1 or X=2. Mostly in mono-blue decks. Which brings us to...
Master of Waves (et al.): You immediately thought of Merfolk, but it seems to me they're actually pushing (with this, Thassa, Nykthos, and Curse of the Swine) for mono-blue aggro decks that AREN'T Merfolk. Or aren't tribal either. There have to be a 12-15 good finishers in blue by now, no? I didn't check but it's worth trying. By the way, your devotion math might be a little off: with Thassa, you don't need 5 more symbols, you need 4, so Plumeveil is 3/4 of what you need, not 3/5 (unless you aren't just aiming for non-God-related devotion). Also: did you consider that you might wanna NOT hit Thassa's devotion, to prevent your free scryer/unblockable engine to be killed by Path to Exile?
Agent of Fates: The fact that you resort to using self-damage and self-milling to activate your Hero makes me think that Heroic is really unsalvageable. :)
Erebos: "I don' think there are any other Black cards that just stop your opponents from gaining life." Everlasting Torment. Erebos is a great Pod station in black-heavy builds, anyway. Strong sideboard option in general.
Purphoros: "Combo decks like "Cheeri0s", that are all about dropping as many creatures as they can into play". Aren't you thinking of Legacy Cheeri0S, though? You need Kobolds for that, no? And Glimpse of Nature, which is banned. I saw Modern versions with just Puresteel Paladin, lots of 0-cost artifacts, and Retract to recast them again and again (and Grapeshot for the kill). Maybe more like Quest for the Holy Relic decks? All these decks are almost manaless anyway (12-15 lands at best plus Moxen), so I don't think they can play a 4-mana dude (which would do nothing in the Paladin version, anyway). Plus, it would seem a win-more, since once those engine gets going, the game is over.
All in all I don't like Purphoros (and the Gods you don't even mention, but maybe a little more in the case of Heliod) because unlike Thassa and Erebos he doesn't impact the board in the slightest the turn he comes, and he needs for you to have another specific type of card at hand or he'll keep doing nothing, while Thassa and Erebos help you find what you — and they — need.
As for the missed cards, I would have liked to see your opinion on Elspeth 3.0. There are (admittedly odd) aggro/control builds that might like her, no?
I agree on Xenagos being an entirely new subject that requires an entirely new build. He might associate himself with Domri, though.
And boy, green really gets nothing of relevance this set, didn't it? Nemesis of Mortals is so clearly a pity mention from you. :)
Or like, "Daybreak Coronet? That's just crap, nobody will ever even think of playing it". Yep. :)
(I also remember Splinter Twin being considered a worthless Johnny toy, and even after Splinter.dek became a thing, Kiki-Jiki being considered too slow for Modern and just a cute oddity).
Something always happens along the road, says the wise man.
Great article to read, as per usual. The investment project was informative to follow, though I am not an investor - I simply buy cards I want to play with (I don't trade, much). It's unfortunate that you didn't make money in the grand scheme of things, and that the overall time committed was the equivalent of making much less than a minimum wage job.
But keep up the good work!
It really is. Ars Arcanum does it too. If an article on this site is picking up over 3k viewers, it's because of reddit.
It's obvious that Theros will not impact much to the Eternal formats like RtR did. Maybe it's still too early to say that by looking the first set. Who knows.
I believe some cards have potentials, like; Hero’s Downfall (Jund), Fleecemane Lion (maybe in GW Maverick), Steam Augury (???), Swan Song (R/U Storm or Splinter Twin decks, Soldier of the Pantheon (maybe in White Tax, not sure), Chained to the Rocks (maybe in some Naya Bogle)
I think Steam Augury is a strong card and it will see play in a dedicated deck one day. But I'm not sure how or under which deck shell. Recently, I saw some Grixis Control deck ideas for Modern that are using it. Personally, I don't expect Steam Augury to shine in a day or maybe it will take years.
Modern Meta is shifting constantly and this leave open door to any new possibilities. During the first year of Modern, people were thinking that there is no chance for Cryptic Command to see play as Blue Control type decks were assumed too weak. Then Snapcaster Mage came...
That's a good idea honestly. We should probably all be doing that.
I agree. The investment project has provided an open and fair forum for people to predict price movements in advance instead of applying hindsight. I think Pete has done an awesome job in following the suggestions.
An interesting look at what Theros brings to Modern. I think I agree with your evaluations. There isn't anything that jumps out as being a standout in Modern. The Gods are probably the most interesting card but in a format with such good removal I doubt they are going to see much competitive play.
Steam Augury might see some play but sadly I think it's slightly too expensive to make a big impact. As good as Fact or Fiction is I think Modern is slightly too fast for it to be an amazing effect in Modern. The rest is not too exciting.