If that's 12 AM EST, it works for Euro players too, but seriously man, it's the WORLD Wide Web, all times should be GMT. :)
(Which means you just have to know your local modifier to GMT to immediately grasp the time, as opposed to search for the modifier for EST, then work from that to determine GMT, then determine your local time). (This even in the case you plan an event mostly for Americans, because you never know who will be willing to play at odd times, and there's Asians players too in the equation. Let alone that your starting times are actually more Euro-friendly than USA-friendly, because it's easier for someone to play MTG in the late afternoon than during lunch time in a Sunday.)
The payout for Swiss (without playoff) can't award Top Whatever, because that would cause unbelievable frustration. That's the reason Blippy and I changed it originally, we SAW that frustration: the, say, 5th player would be cut out of prizes while having done exactly as good as the 2nd player, only with the bad luck of meeting slightly worse opponents (and in a, say, 16-people tournament, that's bound to be a ridiculously tiny difference in ratings anyway). You can't award that kind of luck, on top of the luck already necessary to get good matchups and good draws and so on. You can't leave a player saying, as they were, "I did my absolute best, I won EVERY match 2-0, and still wasn't enough? Then f*ck off!"
Swiss tournaments reward match points, that's what sanctioned tournaments do. In 4 rounds, you end with 12 points or 9 points, you did good, deserve a prize, period.
The land section descriptions are great. IMO that's a reason more to not leave out an entire type of lands (also, don't look at the Top 16 at a GP to know the meta. The meta for the Top 1000 would be different; the meta for dailies: different again; the meta for PREs: wildly different). The price of filter lands is inflated? Probably (also due to scarcity), but that's a reason more to monitor their prices, no? The day Cascade Bluffs crashes, I want to know. One of them is worth just 1 tix? I want to know which one.
I retroactively claim the inspiration for your event! Obviously time travel is involved. : )
The Poll time is military format and Eastern Standard Time. If I had included 13:00 (1:00 PM EST) it probably would have been more obvious. Putting EST may have been a broad assumption? Not sure if Noon my time is odd; it is earlier for the European players (who liked playing in WAFTT even though it was usually late) but still late enough that some West Coast players may squeak in.
The X-0 and X-1 distribution may be convenient, but it doesn't have to be the only method. If 1-4 always receive fixed amounts, then given the number of players that could work too. The Tiebreakers would be a huge factor in that. Days with smaller turnouts, it would mean that the X-2 players have more incentive to fight it out to try and squeak in. If it gets a bigger turnout, then it means some x-1's may lose out. Is a consistent 3-1 player happier competing for a solid 5 credits as opposed to getting some number between 1.8-2.5 over two weeks of placing? Only trial and error will let us know. (Of course, if I "kill" the PRE before it even gets off the ground, that isn't smart either...) I'm giving it a lot of thought (and some math).
As for Filter lands, I'm undecided on them. I should probably add them to have a complete listing of Lands. On the other hand, I did a count with the Top 16 of Brisbane, and I believe there was 1 copy of Cascade Bluffs and 1 copy of Fire-Lit Thicket and possibly 1 copy of the B/G one. Sometimes I'm not so sure if people leave them in JUST out of habit? Casting Kiki seems to be the main reason to include them (and now some of those lists play the R/W one to cast kiki/linvala). I honestly feel that they have inflated prices for the use that they see. Yes, some of the other lands I do list see even less use, but I hope the new section descriptions express why I am taking the time to list them as opposed to others. (Thoughts on that?)
As always, thanks for the conversation provoking comments! I'll to get in touch since there are lots of things I want to ask you! (Blippy too if I catch him online!)
Iv'e been testing out a deck list with a friend. Against the current meta game of r/w aggro and r/g, we have been crushing them both. i went with an all blue deck at first, but after a few days of testing gave it up. We still went with the black core, but gave the deck a twist with an addition of counters, bounce spells, and Ashiok. It's worked out pretty good so far.
I'm not sure what you mean by solid counterspells, there is Dissolve and....nothing. Ashiok also has a problem of doing nothing against aggro which is nearly always the center of early metagame (right now it's all about R/G aggro). Prognostic Sphinx is a good reason, but I just don't see the others.
A new Modern PRE has actually been born, one day before this article.
It's called Modern Times, it's on Gatherling, and you can find the forum page here.
It's for Euro people, but maybe it can branch out to some U.S. friendly timezone in the future, like Overdrive! did (but in reverse).
(Again, write to me!)
About your poll: time expressed in EST = bad. I don't even get if those are supposed to be AM or PM. They seem strange in any case: a tournament that starts at noon or midnight?
Prize distribution: none of the proposed methods applies to Swiss. Swiss needs to have the Blippy/Kuma long-tested X-0 and X-1 distribution (based on what WotC itself does, anyway). Any other system is absurd for Swiss. If the tournament is direct elimination instead, any TopX is good. What X is strictly depends on the budget from the sponsor.
About the lands: table subdivision is great, but man, you really do hate the filter lands, do you? :) I don't use them either, but they're undeniably pro lands, and more used in competitive play than both fast lands and check lands. Cascade Bluffs is $17.75! Others are between 5 and 10, with some exceptions. They're among the most pricey lands in Modern.
I missed it! (Busy week).
But hey, you did miss Modern Times in turn! :P (Both in Gatherling — it was announced in the home page — and in the Wizards forum — which still has some purpose). But no big deal, it'll still be there next week, and the week after that. :)
I'm going to read/comment your article now.
And I don't seem to have your email, so drop me a line at aicardigianluca at gmail.com, you can still join the Dragon fun if you want. Everybody can.
I could totally support that idea too! If anything, maybe one that passes off host from week to week for a bit? Being a first time event runner, it would be nice to have somebody helping out.
If the article is getting other people to think about the situation and consider their own ideas, then I consider the article a success!
Whoa, Kuma, you started a Modern PRE? Did you even read my article this week?! I totally would have talked about that!!! Sheesh, go to my article and post a comment about it or something!!! : ) Sadly, that time is too early for me to play. :(
Aww...I would have totally written a dragon themed Modern Perspective too.. ;(
Thanks for the comments insightful as always. Sometimes I think we make bold claims for effect and I think we would all agree something like selkie is not strictly superior to edric but both of us are pretty nutty and would probably rather hit for 4 and draw 4 cards than hit for 6 and draw 3 (I added a hierarch to your scenario which doesnt seem far fetched)
It seems like Ashiok and the solid counterspells could set up a good control shell. Also it has the duel land and a few other solid threats. Why isn't that a consideration?
I've also been lamenting the loss of PREs in the Modern format. I know that Blippy's events are what got me started playing the format, and I've collected a lot of the staples since then and built several decks.
If a sponsor were found for such a PRE, I might be available to host if needed, depending on people's preferred time.
The white in that pool seems like a trap to me. There are some really good cards, but only a few. I would have gone either R/B or R/G. Overall though the pool is quite unexciting.
I'd like to unlock Nymph or Octopus this week. Sadly not possible because any tribe with less than 11 members is unplayable in Singleton, which tends to lead to the problem you outlined above first thing with the big, redundant tribes dominating. But this is old ground. Gorgons! I've built them several times over the years, most recently in July 2011, during the Blippy-run Blippian era. At that time, we'd just hit the 5 Gorgons necessary to run the tribe without changelings, thanks to Damia. However, this meant the deck included Masked Gorgon alongside the three legends and Recluse. Deck used Sickening Dreams as its discard outlet for madness and refreshing Damia, with a reanimation suite for the fatties. Mana base was swamps, fetches and Coffers, with the rav duals colourfixing.
I'd probably trash it completely and start again with the new guys. Still reanimation, because high casting costs, a madness outlet and some decent fat lends itself naturally to that. The legends would still be the mainstays, probably a coffers engine and both monstrosities. Big removal suite. Are Gorgons Spooky?
Thanks for the shout-out for Classic. With the promise of Vintage around the corner (?), this could be the last large, open, Classic tournament ever! I'm hoping we can get a fairly large turnout for this and send off Classic in a meaningful way.
Yeah, Pete... you kind of just messed that sealed up :) I mean that in the nicest and most endearing way possible. I think you kind of got blinded by a few powerful white cards.
I would have built a RB deck. Specifically, the following list:
With that list, you actually end up with a pretty powerful RB aggressive deck. You've got the Crusader and the Hero, along with 3 powerful 2cmc auras, which means you can get off to pretty degenerate starts. You have evasion in the harpies, and you have the very powerful and deadly combo of Two-Headed Cerberus + Baleful Eidolon. You've got some reach with the Gorgon, the Marauder, and the Titan, and you've got enough humans that the Titan will be able to kill your opponent in the late game. Also, Titan + Human + Baleful Eidolon is a very sick combination.
Honestly, I would expect that deck to go at least 3-1, but it is definitely capable of going 4-0.
If that's 12 AM EST, it works for Euro players too, but seriously man, it's the WORLD Wide Web, all times should be GMT. :)
(Which means you just have to know your local modifier to GMT to immediately grasp the time, as opposed to search for the modifier for EST, then work from that to determine GMT, then determine your local time). (This even in the case you plan an event mostly for Americans, because you never know who will be willing to play at odd times, and there's Asians players too in the equation. Let alone that your starting times are actually more Euro-friendly than USA-friendly, because it's easier for someone to play MTG in the late afternoon than during lunch time in a Sunday.)
The payout for Swiss (without playoff) can't award Top Whatever, because that would cause unbelievable frustration. That's the reason Blippy and I changed it originally, we SAW that frustration: the, say, 5th player would be cut out of prizes while having done exactly as good as the 2nd player, only with the bad luck of meeting slightly worse opponents (and in a, say, 16-people tournament, that's bound to be a ridiculously tiny difference in ratings anyway). You can't award that kind of luck, on top of the luck already necessary to get good matchups and good draws and so on. You can't leave a player saying, as they were, "I did my absolute best, I won EVERY match 2-0, and still wasn't enough? Then f*ck off!"
Swiss tournaments reward match points, that's what sanctioned tournaments do. In 4 rounds, you end with 12 points or 9 points, you did good, deserve a prize, period.
The land section descriptions are great. IMO that's a reason more to not leave out an entire type of lands (also, don't look at the Top 16 at a GP to know the meta. The meta for the Top 1000 would be different; the meta for dailies: different again; the meta for PREs: wildly different). The price of filter lands is inflated? Probably (also due to scarcity), but that's a reason more to monitor their prices, no? The day Cascade Bluffs crashes, I want to know. One of them is worth just 1 tix? I want to know which one.
Looking forward to your email!
I retroactively claim the inspiration for your event! Obviously time travel is involved. : )
The Poll time is military format and Eastern Standard Time. If I had included 13:00 (1:00 PM EST) it probably would have been more obvious. Putting EST may have been a broad assumption? Not sure if Noon my time is odd; it is earlier for the European players (who liked playing in WAFTT even though it was usually late) but still late enough that some West Coast players may squeak in.
The X-0 and X-1 distribution may be convenient, but it doesn't have to be the only method. If 1-4 always receive fixed amounts, then given the number of players that could work too. The Tiebreakers would be a huge factor in that. Days with smaller turnouts, it would mean that the X-2 players have more incentive to fight it out to try and squeak in. If it gets a bigger turnout, then it means some x-1's may lose out. Is a consistent 3-1 player happier competing for a solid 5 credits as opposed to getting some number between 1.8-2.5 over two weeks of placing? Only trial and error will let us know. (Of course, if I "kill" the PRE before it even gets off the ground, that isn't smart either...) I'm giving it a lot of thought (and some math).
As for Filter lands, I'm undecided on them. I should probably add them to have a complete listing of Lands. On the other hand, I did a count with the Top 16 of Brisbane, and I believe there was 1 copy of Cascade Bluffs and 1 copy of Fire-Lit Thicket and possibly 1 copy of the B/G one. Sometimes I'm not so sure if people leave them in JUST out of habit? Casting Kiki seems to be the main reason to include them (and now some of those lists play the R/W one to cast kiki/linvala). I honestly feel that they have inflated prices for the use that they see. Yes, some of the other lands I do list see even less use, but I hope the new section descriptions express why I am taking the time to list them as opposed to others. (Thoughts on that?)
As always, thanks for the conversation provoking comments! I'll to get in touch since there are lots of things I want to ask you! (Blippy too if I catch him online!)
Iv'e been testing out a deck list with a friend. Against the current meta game of r/w aggro and r/g, we have been crushing them both. i went with an all blue deck at first, but after a few days of testing gave it up. We still went with the black core, but gave the deck a twist with an addition of counters, bounce spells, and Ashiok. It's worked out pretty good so far.
I'm not sure what you mean by solid counterspells, there is Dissolve and....nothing. Ashiok also has a problem of doing nothing against aggro which is nearly always the center of early metagame (right now it's all about R/G aggro). Prognostic Sphinx is a good reason, but I just don't see the others.
Those are interesting cards. Very powerful and very useful. - Paul Kadri
I really don't mind the mess. As long as you get the job done, then that is fine with me. - Paul Kadri
The deck is so great. You know if it is up to something the minute you see it. - Paul Kadri
A new Modern PRE has actually been born, one day before this article.
It's called Modern Times, it's on Gatherling, and you can find the forum page here.
It's for Euro people, but maybe it can branch out to some U.S. friendly timezone in the future, like Overdrive! did (but in reverse).
(Again, write to me!)
About your poll: time expressed in EST = bad. I don't even get if those are supposed to be AM or PM. They seem strange in any case: a tournament that starts at noon or midnight?
Prize distribution: none of the proposed methods applies to Swiss. Swiss needs to have the Blippy/Kuma long-tested X-0 and X-1 distribution (based on what WotC itself does, anyway). Any other system is absurd for Swiss. If the tournament is direct elimination instead, any TopX is good. What X is strictly depends on the budget from the sponsor.
About the lands: table subdivision is great, but man, you really do hate the filter lands, do you? :) I don't use them either, but they're undeniably pro lands, and more used in competitive play than both fast lands and check lands. Cascade Bluffs is $17.75! Others are between 5 and 10, with some exceptions. They're among the most pricey lands in Modern.
I missed it! (Busy week).
But hey, you did miss Modern Times in turn! :P (Both in Gatherling — it was announced in the home page — and in the Wizards forum — which still has some purpose). But no big deal, it'll still be there next week, and the week after that. :)
I'm going to read/comment your article now.
And I don't seem to have your email, so drop me a line at aicardigianluca at gmail.com, you can still join the Dragon fun if you want. Everybody can.
Sure. Verb phrase ellipsis construction. I did the same in the previous sentence. Here and in the article.
Gorgons are spooky indeed.
Here's a version of the deck that went 3-0 (6-0 in games):
http://i.imgur.com/dYLVoz0.png
I could totally support that idea too! If anything, maybe one that passes off host from week to week for a bit? Being a first time event runner, it would be nice to have somebody helping out.
If the article is getting other people to think about the situation and consider their own ideas, then I consider the article a success!
Whoa, Kuma, you started a Modern PRE? Did you even read my article this week?! I totally would have talked about that!!! Sheesh, go to my article and post a comment about it or something!!! : ) Sadly, that time is too early for me to play. :(
Aww...I would have totally written a dragon themed Modern Perspective too.. ;(
Thanks for the comments insightful as always. Sometimes I think we make bold claims for effect and I think we would all agree something like selkie is not strictly superior to edric but both of us are pretty nutty and would probably rather hit for 4 and draw 4 cards than hit for 6 and draw 3 (I added a hierarch to your scenario which doesnt seem far fetched)
Don't expect anything in return when you pay taxes. That is our " tribute" to the government. - Missed Fortune
"Every day one or more articles about Dragons from regular PureMTGO writers. " I assume this was supposed to end in "Will be posted here."?
It seems like Ashiok and the solid counterspells could set up a good control shell. Also it has the duel land and a few other solid threats. Why isn't that a consideration?
Glad to hear it! Time zones always make things tricky. Thanks so much for participating.
These games here are somehow interesting. Good to see this post. I can't wait for the next game or tournament. - Paul Kadiri
I've also been lamenting the loss of PREs in the Modern format. I know that Blippy's events are what got me started playing the format, and I've collected a lot of the staples since then and built several decks.
If a sponsor were found for such a PRE, I might be available to host if needed, depending on people's preferred time.
The white in that pool seems like a trap to me. There are some really good cards, but only a few. I would have gone either R/B or R/G. Overall though the pool is quite unexciting.
I'd like to unlock Nymph or Octopus this week. Sadly not possible because any tribe with less than 11 members is unplayable in Singleton, which tends to lead to the problem you outlined above first thing with the big, redundant tribes dominating. But this is old ground. Gorgons! I've built them several times over the years, most recently in July 2011, during the Blippy-run Blippian era. At that time, we'd just hit the 5 Gorgons necessary to run the tribe without changelings, thanks to Damia. However, this meant the deck included Masked Gorgon alongside the three legends and Recluse. Deck used Sickening Dreams as its discard outlet for madness and refreshing Damia, with a reanimation suite for the fatties. Mana base was swamps, fetches and Coffers, with the rav duals colourfixing.
I'd probably trash it completely and start again with the new guys. Still reanimation, because high casting costs, a madness outlet and some decent fat lends itself naturally to that. The legends would still be the mainstays, probably a coffers engine and both monstrosities. Big removal suite. Are Gorgons Spooky?
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the shout-out for Classic. With the promise of Vintage around the corner (?), this could be the last large, open, Classic tournament ever! I'm hoping we can get a fairly large turnout for this and send off Classic in a meaningful way.
Yeah, Pete... you kind of just messed that sealed up :) I mean that in the nicest and most endearing way possible. I think you kind of got blinded by a few powerful white cards.
I would have built a RB deck. Specifically, the following list:
1 Minotaur Skullcleaver
1 Deathbellow Raider
1 Ordeal of Purphoros
1 Borderland Minotaur
1 Magma Jet
1 Arena Athlete
1 Flamespeaker Adept
1 Titan’s Strength
1 Satyr Rambler
2 Two-Headed Cerberus
1 Spearpoint Oread
1 Titan of Eternal Fire
1 Akroan Crusader
2 Blood-Toll Harpy
2 Baleful Eidolon
1 Keepsake Gorgon
1 Mogis’s Marauder
1 Scourgemark
1 Ordeal of Erebos
1 Tormented Hero
With that list, you actually end up with a pretty powerful RB aggressive deck. You've got the Crusader and the Hero, along with 3 powerful 2cmc auras, which means you can get off to pretty degenerate starts. You have evasion in the harpies, and you have the very powerful and deadly combo of Two-Headed Cerberus + Baleful Eidolon. You've got some reach with the Gorgon, the Marauder, and the Titan, and you've got enough humans that the Titan will be able to kill your opponent in the late game. Also, Titan + Human + Baleful Eidolon is a very sick combination.
Honestly, I would expect that deck to go at least 3-1, but it is definitely capable of going 4-0.