Cheers once again for taking the time to provide constructive comments. The decklists can easily to made larger in future, but the quality of the images aren't great, so I'll have to see how big I can go with degrading the quality.
I would need to look into the hosting of text files- I'm not very tech savvy but I'll look into it.
I also tried out using your decklist generator for the article, but had problems pasting in the CSS to the source code. Am I supposed to do something more complicated? Please forgive me if this doesn't make sense- I have no programming background.
Thanks Zach for the kind words. The article actually took an entire week to write, edit and format, though that was partly due to the fact that I was trying a lot of new features.
As for the extended art, I do them myself in my free time. Expect more in the future!
Really well done article. How long did the formatting take? I love the layout and wherever you got the alt art pics from. Also appreciate the organic way you slipped in the decklists.
I definitely support Judgment as an answer to True-Name. Mangara seems like a nice catch-all in matchups with other problem permanents.
I like Path because decks with basics will be aggressively fetching for them anyway against you, so the drawback is mitigated a bit. There aren't many creatures in the format that don't die to Sunlance except for Tarmogoyf, however, so they each seem quite potent. Dismember might be an option as well if you're looking for the best of both worlds.
True, but they are not in the board for sneak and show. Honestly that is a very good match-up already so I don't really need extra hate for it. Judgement may get cut to 1 but it is there for things like true-name. I have no other answer to that card except to race it. Mangara serves a permanent O-Ring and I think the way things are going now I may want extra removal like a path or sunlance. I appreciate the feedback it is always good to bounce ideas off of other players. I will be testing more extensively this week, I will see where that gets me. Only 9 days till the GP and I need to make sure I can be as ready as possible.
My issue with Judgment and Mangara is that neither beats Sneak and Show's line of Show and Tell into Sneak Attack, and while Oblivion Ring doesn't necessarily beat that either it makes it so that if they want to kill you by putting Griselbrand into play and drawing into an Emrakul they have to activate the Attack at instant speed the second time (so if they need to draw into a Petal or land with Griselbrand they're SOL). Ring also does the same thing against Omni-Tell. In addition, it's uncounterable if you put it in off of S&T, which is likely to be very relevant compared to Judgment (less so compared to Mangara).
I definitely like a Disenchant in the board for Stoneblade and Vortex decks.
Presentation comments:
The graphics based lists are a great idea if a bit small. Id go for making them 20-30% bigger. The text list links are good in theory but I would host actual text files if I were you so that people can just save them to disk and import them. Also where you posted "see text file" I probably would have linked to it right there. Having the links below the graphics list would help to.
Content comments:
Very nicely put forth, would have loved to see some video of the tourneys you are winning with the R/W tokens deck. Maybe some for each deck you run in tourney settings. I too, have been eying Master of Waves as an underutilized card though my uses are far more casual and fun than yours. (Pumping elemental creatures, acting as undying rocks amidst the anger of the gods, etc.)
Very good points CZML, I still want to hold on to 1 Liege because even though the discard option might be less viable the anthem can still be very important. I am unsure if I should expect (Sulfur Elemental) but I do expect some (Volcanic Fallout) The Leyline is also there to improve my game against TES or ANT and Mangara can be fragile but he will also not come in against decks that can and will kill him off. I did originally have O-ring but chose Council's Judgement instead. I may even take a few cards out and add in good ol' (Disenchant) I think (Sulfuric Vortex) will see more play and that will shut off skull,Jitte, and the firewalker.
Spirit of the Labyrinth seems great against both Delver and combo strategies. It also works well with the Enlightened Tutor package. Might even be maindeckable, but definitely worth considering in the board. More fragile than Leyline and doesn't do much work vs Burn but otherwise very good. I like Firewalkers because they're good against both burn and UR Delver strategies, especially Young Pyromancer. I'm a bit worried about Leyline's consistency, as turn 4 might be too late if you don't have it in your opener (or turn 5 if you have Thalia or use Wasteland).
Liege seems excessive, both for costing 4 and because Liliana of the Veil and Hymn to Tourach (the main cards you want it against) seem to be experiencing a downswing in popularity as neither are particularly good against Treasure Cruise.
Mangara might be better as an O-Ring because most people will likely be boarding in spot removal and you won't always have Vial+Wisp or Mom or Karakas to protect her. She's likely better than Ring if you get to untap with her and use her ability, but she seems very fragile.
The second piece of the puzzle is sufficient removal. These UR decks don't run that many creatures. I am extremely hesitant to keep hands without a Lightning Bolt or equivalent, for example. Apart from the mentioned things Vapor Snags and Snapcaster Mages also exist and need to be played around.
Three stars means 'good'. There is always room for improvement, for example looking at all the ways the meta is adjusting right now to beat the prevalence of Delver decks. There are some pretty off-the-wall looking brews cashing dailies right now.
It is not the start of censorship, it is a critique. No one is questioning your right to publish or say anything. I think that you are wrong in your assessment of the current state of the program and that your article therefore is damaging for the community. I know that it is also not the intent of your censorship comment but put to an extreme you are also asking for censorship when you caution me for expressing my opinion.
I am sure that you are passionate about your article series so I have also no hard feelings and enjoy your comments. I did not intend to single out your article if that is how you see it, there are a range of articles and comments on the same topic which I find damaging.
Yeah, there are a lot of sideboards right now that start with 4x Dragon Claw.
Kor Firewalker is good, but it's not unstoppable. Delver flys right over it and a well timed Skull Crack can turn a typical block into a bloody mess. No one card turns off either strategy. A good Burn player won't fold to a single Leyline of Sanctity...
I'm a little curious about the 3 "star" rating. Was there something more you wanted from the article, or felt was lacking?
I tried to contact the editor about this, but have not yet received a reply. I just wanted to clarify I actually underestimated some of the numbers above. I was accidentally only counting positive combinations rather than non-negative combinations. (That is, I listed the numbers given decks had to contain at least one copy of each of the land types). Here are the corrections:
Momir Basic: the number of possible decks is 635,376 (64 choose 60).
Momir metagame: the number of possible matchups is 201,851,013,000 (635,376 choose 2).
"Snow" Momir Basic: the number of possible decks is 56,672,074,888 (69 choose 60).
"Snow" Momir metagame: the number of possible matchups is 1,605,862,036,027,204,068,828 (1 sextillion / 1 thousand billion billion)(56,672,074,888 choose 2).
For the one non-basic-land card Standard, this changes the result to be: (64 choose 60) + (63 choose 59) + (62 choose 58) + (61 choose 57) + (60 choose 56) = 2,798,376 possible decks.
I think Icy Blast is one of the best cards in the set and is severely underrated. I rate it very highly, it's a fog, it can be a time walk, it's a spell that when I cast it I feel like I am winning the game.
Great debates, keep them coming as that means we care. I agree with many of Paul's points as well. I think the conversation has gone far from the article intent but since it hit a nerve let's talk about this more. Few points I would make:
1) This is going very philosophical but I am a believer in transparency and openness on all views (inclusion mindset). I do not agree with the notion that the tone of my article will breed a narrative that will sink MTGO or players individual views. In fact, I think that statement is very wrong, off base, attacking and actually belittles to community. Put to an extreme it is the start of censorship which I know is not the intent of the statements but I caution the view that I am destructive, elitist or the such by stating my opinions.
2) You may have contrary views to me, fine I am happy and expect that, let's discuss that but do not put words in my mouth please! My opinions and experiences are mine, you may have different ones but listen to other people's thoughts so you can make a more informed decision on your own views. If you have an opinion on how great the new client is overall I will listen and use that information as I see fit.
3) Rerepete was right on with his quote to make my point on data - "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
4) I, personally, do not think WOTC has made MTGO to my expectations. That also was not the point of my article and I did not want to write an article about that, my point was the Hasbro earnings report has given me hope. I do feel I have an informed decision from my experiences and I know others feel similar to me. We have no proof but I do not think stating my opinion is a bad thing or something I should not say. Don't like my tone? Think I stated things as fact? OK point heard and I can try to soften because I listen and make changes to others opinions like I am suggesting you do. That said my opinion in reading the survey results is the same - I did feel the way I wrote, and dislike that we are really talking about communication, performance and stability as the key items to this day.
I know English is not everyone's first language and people are passionate about this topic so I, at least, have no hard feelings and enjoy the comments.
I merged my two accounts without contacting Wizards. It took two tries and three days but it was all automated.
Cheers once again for taking the time to provide constructive comments. The decklists can easily to made larger in future, but the quality of the images aren't great, so I'll have to see how big I can go with degrading the quality.
I would need to look into the hosting of text files- I'm not very tech savvy but I'll look into it.
I also tried out using your decklist generator for the article, but had problems pasting in the CSS to the source code. Am I supposed to do something more complicated? Please forgive me if this doesn't make sense- I have no programming background.
Thanks Zach for the kind words. The article actually took an entire week to write, edit and format, though that was partly due to the fact that I was trying a lot of new features.
As for the extended art, I do them myself in my free time. Expect more in the future!
That could be it. I do tend to just leave my MTGO client logged in for days at at time.
Really well done article. How long did the formatting take? I love the layout and wherever you got the alt art pics from. Also appreciate the organic way you slipped in the decklists.
High-Quality work man - 5 stars.
Zach
I definitely support Judgment as an answer to True-Name. Mangara seems like a nice catch-all in matchups with other problem permanents.
I like Path because decks with basics will be aggressively fetching for them anyway against you, so the drawback is mitigated a bit. There aren't many creatures in the format that don't die to Sunlance except for Tarmogoyf, however, so they each seem quite potent. Dismember might be an option as well if you're looking for the best of both worlds.
True, but they are not in the board for sneak and show. Honestly that is a very good match-up already so I don't really need extra hate for it. Judgement may get cut to 1 but it is there for things like true-name. I have no other answer to that card except to race it. Mangara serves a permanent O-Ring and I think the way things are going now I may want extra removal like a path or sunlance. I appreciate the feedback it is always good to bounce ideas off of other players. I will be testing more extensively this week, I will see where that gets me. Only 9 days till the GP and I need to make sure I can be as ready as possible.
MY DUAL LAND ART IS FIXED! HOORAY! UP WITH CONCENTRIC RECTANGLES! DOWN WITH CHEAP UGLY VMA DUALS!
My issue with Judgment and Mangara is that neither beats Sneak and Show's line of Show and Tell into Sneak Attack, and while Oblivion Ring doesn't necessarily beat that either it makes it so that if they want to kill you by putting Griselbrand into play and drawing into an Emrakul they have to activate the Attack at instant speed the second time (so if they need to draw into a Petal or land with Griselbrand they're SOL). Ring also does the same thing against Omni-Tell. In addition, it's uncounterable if you put it in off of S&T, which is likely to be very relevant compared to Judgment (less so compared to Mangara).
I definitely like a Disenchant in the board for Stoneblade and Vortex decks.
Presentation comments:
The graphics based lists are a great idea if a bit small. Id go for making them 20-30% bigger. The text list links are good in theory but I would host actual text files if I were you so that people can just save them to disk and import them. Also where you posted "see text file" I probably would have linked to it right there. Having the links below the graphics list would help to.
Content comments:
Very nicely put forth, would have loved to see some video of the tourneys you are winning with the R/W tokens deck. Maybe some for each deck you run in tourney settings. I too, have been eying Master of Waves as an underutilized card though my uses are far more casual and fun than yours. (Pumping elemental creatures, acting as undying rocks amidst the anger of the gods, etc.)
Very good points CZML, I still want to hold on to 1 Liege because even though the discard option might be less viable the anthem can still be very important. I am unsure if I should expect (Sulfur Elemental) but I do expect some (Volcanic Fallout) The Leyline is also there to improve my game against TES or ANT and Mangara can be fragile but he will also not come in against decks that can and will kill him off. I did originally have O-ring but chose Council's Judgement instead. I may even take a few cards out and add in good ol' (Disenchant) I think (Sulfuric Vortex) will see more play and that will shut off skull,Jitte, and the firewalker.
Spirit of the Labyrinth seems great against both Delver and combo strategies. It also works well with the Enlightened Tutor package. Might even be maindeckable, but definitely worth considering in the board. More fragile than Leyline and doesn't do much work vs Burn but otherwise very good. I like Firewalkers because they're good against both burn and UR Delver strategies, especially Young Pyromancer. I'm a bit worried about Leyline's consistency, as turn 4 might be too late if you don't have it in your opener (or turn 5 if you have Thalia or use Wasteland).
Liege seems excessive, both for costing 4 and because Liliana of the Veil and Hymn to Tourach (the main cards you want it against) seem to be experiencing a downswing in popularity as neither are particularly good against Treasure Cruise.
Mangara might be better as an O-Ring because most people will likely be boarding in spot removal and you won't always have Vial+Wisp or Mom or Karakas to protect her. She's likely better than Ring if you get to untap with her and use her ability, but she seems very fragile.
The best way to reach me is at puremtgoeditor@gmail.com.
I can see that, I just hate swiftspear so much. Prowess seems to high risk for me
The second piece of the puzzle is sufficient removal. These UR decks don't run that many creatures. I am extremely hesitant to keep hands without a Lightning Bolt or equivalent, for example. Apart from the mentioned things Vapor Snags and Snapcaster Mages also exist and need to be played around.
Three stars means 'good'. There is always room for improvement, for example looking at all the ways the meta is adjusting right now to beat the prevalence of Delver decks. There are some pretty off-the-wall looking brews cashing dailies right now.
It is not the start of censorship, it is a critique. No one is questioning your right to publish or say anything. I think that you are wrong in your assessment of the current state of the program and that your article therefore is damaging for the community. I know that it is also not the intent of your censorship comment but put to an extreme you are also asking for censorship when you caution me for expressing my opinion.
I am sure that you are passionate about your article series so I have also no hard feelings and enjoy your comments. I did not intend to single out your article if that is how you see it, there are a range of articles and comments on the same topic which I find damaging.
Yeah, there are a lot of sideboards right now that start with 4x Dragon Claw.
Kor Firewalker is good, but it's not unstoppable. Delver flys right over it and a well timed Skull Crack can turn a typical block into a bloody mess. No one card turns off either strategy. A good Burn player won't fold to a single Leyline of Sanctity...
I'm a little curious about the 3 "star" rating. Was there something more you wanted from the article, or felt was lacking?
I would of taken Icy Blast there too, I think I would of gone Swiftspear with next pick and veered into Jeskai after that though.
Hello all,
I tried to contact the editor about this, but have not yet received a reply. I just wanted to clarify I actually underestimated some of the numbers above. I was accidentally only counting positive combinations rather than non-negative combinations. (That is, I listed the numbers given decks had to contain at least one copy of each of the land types). Here are the corrections:
Momir Basic: the number of possible decks is 635,376 (64 choose 60).
Momir metagame: the number of possible matchups is 201,851,013,000 (635,376 choose 2).
"Snow" Momir Basic: the number of possible decks is 56,672,074,888 (69 choose 60).
"Snow" Momir metagame: the number of possible matchups is 1,605,862,036,027,204,068,828 (1 sextillion / 1 thousand billion billion)(56,672,074,888 choose 2).
For the one non-basic-land card Standard, this changes the result to be: (64 choose 60) + (63 choose 59) + (62 choose 58) + (61 choose 57) + (60 choose 56) = 2,798,376 possible decks.
How to cash a Modern daily event on MTGO: Step 1. Put four Kor Firewalkers in your deck.
I think Icy Blast is one of the best cards in the set and is severely underrated. I rate it very highly, it's a fog, it can be a time walk, it's a spell that when I cast it I feel like I am winning the game.
Great debates, keep them coming as that means we care. I agree with many of Paul's points as well. I think the conversation has gone far from the article intent but since it hit a nerve let's talk about this more. Few points I would make:
1) This is going very philosophical but I am a believer in transparency and openness on all views (inclusion mindset). I do not agree with the notion that the tone of my article will breed a narrative that will sink MTGO or players individual views. In fact, I think that statement is very wrong, off base, attacking and actually belittles to community. Put to an extreme it is the start of censorship which I know is not the intent of the statements but I caution the view that I am destructive, elitist or the such by stating my opinions.
2) You may have contrary views to me, fine I am happy and expect that, let's discuss that but do not put words in my mouth please! My opinions and experiences are mine, you may have different ones but listen to other people's thoughts so you can make a more informed decision on your own views. If you have an opinion on how great the new client is overall I will listen and use that information as I see fit.
3) Rerepete was right on with his quote to make my point on data - "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
4) I, personally, do not think WOTC has made MTGO to my expectations. That also was not the point of my article and I did not want to write an article about that, my point was the Hasbro earnings report has given me hope. I do feel I have an informed decision from my experiences and I know others feel similar to me. We have no proof but I do not think stating my opinion is a bad thing or something I should not say. Don't like my tone? Think I stated things as fact? OK point heard and I can try to soften because I listen and make changes to others opinions like I am suggesting you do. That said my opinion in reading the survey results is the same - I did feel the way I wrote, and dislike that we are really talking about communication, performance and stability as the key items to this day.
I know English is not everyone's first language and people are passionate about this topic so I, at least, have no hard feelings and enjoy the comments.
Nice Draft Josh - but my biggest gripe is p1p1. The only card I am taking over the best UC in the set is a big $ rare.
Why did you pick icy blast over it?
Z
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
I think you over-estimate the complexity of Hearthstone. It caught my interest for about a week before it got boring.