I always appreciate questions :)
1. I want to say it is in a good position but feel like it can still be easily hated out if Dromoka's command sees more play. It also can suffer from splash hate like Drown in Sorrow, Languish, and Virulent Plague. If those cards see less play than Tokens can see more play.
2. When I played Tokens I always feared playing against the big green decks unless I was able to counter their big threats and get under them or get Ascendancy online very quickly. Devotion really is just a strong consistent deck even though personally I am not a fan of it.
Yea I am not the most tech savvy but I can try to make better lists in the future. I think that Thopter deck can be really good as long as it keeps getting worked on and becomes even more finely tuned.
1. Do you think that Jeskai Tokens is well-placed in the format right now?
2. In your testing, did Jeskai Tokens have a good or bad matchup against Green/Red Devotion?
Welcome back! You've successfully out Haitused me. :D Glad to see you are still among the comedic and casual. I am a big fan of Thrashing Wumpus, so I am glad to see him get some love, though he didn't make your final lists.
Hey I know it is a lot of work putting deck lists in with fixed links but it really pays off. Especially with the new sets. At least reordering the lists so that creatures go in the creatures column would be a nice thing to do.
The Thopters deck is one I've been hearing about (and at least one of the people talking about it was a friend who went to Chicago.) I am hopeful to see it perform well and curious how it will shape up as formats shift.
You know Serra actually has 3 different images from its many incarnations and Gabriel Angelfire I'd argue for having iconic art (from Legends) so I would not expect new art from either. Now replacing Gabriel with a playable (read modern) angel like Sigarda is certainly sensible but WOTC's choices in these vault sets tend to be inscrutable to say the least.
Goblins can cause a big problem if people do not have a plan for it. I agree with you there. As far UB and Esper out of those 2 UB is where you want to be. Esper Dragons I think is dropping quickly out of favor.. Languish does not play well with Ojutai. :)
1. I stand behind Mono Red Goblins. It is truly a frightening deck to play against, and I am surprised that no one reached the top 8. The Obelisk of Urd gives it an extra edge, because one can no longer fight Mono Red by saying "Let's survive the initial assault and gain some life". I say: Prepare to watch people be piledrived! It will happen at Pro Tour Origins.
2. Where were the Blue/Black or Esper decks in Top 8? This archetype received an excellent new addition with Languish. Green/Red Devotion is very vulnerable to Languish because it wipes out all their mana producers before it's too late.
Yes Mana Leak is certainly a good playable card. It just so ubiquitous as an effect.
And Tron of course is good. But it wasn't popular at all until Post was banned. Even in OLD extended and Over Extended. The reason being that while the effect of achieving turn 3 Tron is indeed powerful (Karn! 2-3 beaters or Wurmcoil are all insane turn 3 plays as is All is Dust) the set had been around since Antiquities (I foolishly traded away a Time Walk for a set + other cards not realizing how great the disparity was at the time) and no one really used them for powerful plays before Modern came a long.
And the reason is evolution. They were put into 8th edition because no one at WOTC ever even dreamed of Modern format back then. I just find Tron to be a sleeper is all. Similar to how Summer Bloom suddenly became a tournament staple recently despite the combo for it with Amulet had been out since 2012. I wrote an article about it then (BECAUSE it was obscure) and people were like: "oh that's cute."
True, I was turned on to Amulet Bloom by BDM who had seen mention of it on MTG Salvation (A place where much of the great discussions about card interactions start, I find.) My point being, Modern is a format with a lot of sleepers that await certain bans/restrictions or printings to become really good and relevant.
Yeah Bop is an iconic card. It was one of the most colorful cards I received in my initial Unlimited packs and I was happy to have it. It is also scarcely seen and many pod decks didn't bother with it.
If a good deck pops up again that loves having BOP in it I will consider the format a lot friendlier to fun that it is now.
I knew I was on a bit of a time crunch to get the article out, but I didn't expect the product shot so soon. It reveals three cards: Akroma, Angel of Wrath (already known), Avacyn, Angel of Hope (correct, and without new art--perfect!), and Iona, Shield of Emeria (new art). That last one is the most surprising, and it makes it even more confusing why Linvala, Keeper of Silence wasn't in MM15--even with new art, Iona doesn't need a lot of printings (especially since it's one of the more casual-unfriendly cards). While Iona easily slots in for Linvala in the Modern slot, the art is a much bigger question. Both Serra Angel and Gabriel Angelfire really want new art, so that leaves me with two choices:
1. Keep Gabriel Angelfire with new art, and Serra Angel becomes the original art, in modern border for the first time.
2. Keep Serra Angel with new art, and replace Gabriel Angelfire with Sigarda, Host of Herons
I have a feeling they're going to go with the second option--it's probably the better option for the value of the set (as well as keeping their current vision of angels), but it means there isn't any unique card they can use to sell the set.
Well my list isn't necessarily my favourite cards but the cards I think are most impactful on the format. Obviously the cards that see the most play are more impactful than the marginal cards. Though I can appreciate there are a number of different ways to approach making such a list - listing the most unique effects would probably make quite a different list.
Blood Moon made the Top 8 because it is a unique effect that you can't find anywhere else in Modern - well Magus of the Moon aside.
I'm interested in how you feel Mana Leak is irrelevant. It certainly sees a lot of play or are you referring to the fact that is easily replacable. I will certainly concede that if Mana Leak wasn't in the format I'm sure we would simply see Rune Snag, Deprive and the various other counterspells available take its place.
I feel Tron is a pretty big player in the format. Yes it isn't as good as Cloudpost was but that hasn't been legal in Modern since the very early days and we have to work with what we've got. There isn't a reasonable substitute anywhere else in Modern and its the element that allows cards like Karn and Ugin to be playable in the format.
I probably rated Birds of Paradise too highly in terms of its current impact on the format. However, it was very important to Pod decks and still sees play but it's not as significant as it once was. Probably showing my own bias rating it so highly. Still very iconic.
Sleight of Hand is not an attractive option but for a while it was at least the second best we had.
Blood Moon is my favorite Modern card period. Funny but true, I have never played it! I probably need to go get me a deck that lets me cast Blood Moon so I can finally be the one to hose someone with it instead of getting hosed.
Why is a card I never play my favorite? It shuts down Bloom and TRON. I love love love love love love love to watch live coverage of paper matches where that turn 2 Blood Moon drops (or turn 3 or 4 or 5, actually any turn) and causes an immediate concession.
"Blood Moon. Gross. Can't beat that." Scoops.
One of my greatest thrills was as a Pod player managing to win through a turn 3 Blood Moon. It would happen a surprising amount of times with Melira, but was even more fun when I was playing Kiki Pod but the opponent through it was the ole Abzan/Junk Pod. They'd snap off that Blood Moon and I could FEEL them grinning wickedly behind their monitor. Then, I'd use all those fresh Mountains they gave me to hard cast the triple Red Kik-Jiki, ditch a 3 cmc creature to pod and Drop Restoration Angel.... did it to yourself, homie.
Honestly I am not sure I'd pick any of the above as a favorite. They have varying degrees of usefulness, Prime Time and Blood Moon being the most interesting with Ooze and Bolt probably seeing the most play. Mana Leak seems irrelevant and while Tron is important it is does not really shine as an example of a ported card. It is merely the best colorless mana in the format since post was banned. (Though the number of Tron variants shows just how popular that strategy has been in Modern.) Birds is one of my favorite cards from Alpha onward but I would not think of it as a playable card vs the cut throat decks that compromise competitive modern. (Though I used to put 3-4 in Pod anyway. :))
Of the honorable mentions, Treetop is clearly the winner for me, with Grim Lavamancer a close second. Rancor is a card you see sometimes pop up when Stompy or Auras raise their ugly heads and That's fine. Pyroclasm is a necessary sweeper if you are only able to splash red so as to avoid paying RR1 for Anger of the Gods or Volcanic Fallout.
And Sleight of Hand is what is left after all the good cantrips have been banned to avoid a Legacy feel to Modern. Not a fan.
The spoiled art is Avian ChANGELing, yep spelled like that on the card apparently. But I don't think its real as it missing the Wizards copyright bottom right.
That's an interesting point. Kiki sees almost no play in the format these days. I cannot see any problem with Kiki staying unbanned if the day came that they banned Splinter Twin. The fact he costs 5 rather than 4, and actually has quite a restrictive mana cost with triple red, is very significant. Also, the fact that you can answer Kiki with a Lightning Bolt in a way you cannot answer a Splinter Twin on a Deceiver Exarch is a big factor.
If Twin were banned I think that deck would just die as Kiki is not a suitable substitute for Twin, which if they were looking to ban Twin would be the desired effect. Leaving Kiki as a permitted option is nice though as it does mean the combo still exists in some form.
Just for clarity I don't think Twin should be banned but back at the last set of bannings there were a lot of people calling for it, which I imagine puts it on WOTC's radar. Recent results don't support a Twin ban though and I think it would kind of fly in the face of their Turn 4 Combo rule to ban Twin, though I'm sure they'll do whatever is necessary for a balanced format.
I think leave all the versions for now. The list is long, but not unwieldy. Plus, if you remove some, do you leave the highest or lowest? Some people like to know when to buy, others to watch the market.
Also, the improvements didn't do anything for trade. Now I crash about every 3rd bot transaction, and its freezes up my whole computer to load a trade collection.
Important update (that I didn't give in the article and should have): The Changeling Issue is now mentioned in the Bug Blog under Client Known Issues. As a Legacy Tribal Wars-marked item! This means they acknowledge it officially and are going to fix it! Eventually.
If asked without listening to the commentary of Joe and Josh I probably would have shrugged at the no bans. It is what I expected. We just had a series of bans last time. And they seem to have worked. Good.
The only commentary I would have added to the ban/restricted list no changes discussion is that a) Shops particular Martello variants are very beatable. Turn 1 Chalice set to 1 or 0 certain hurts a lot. It is not game over by itself anymore than turn 1 lodestone golem is. Follow that up with a tax artifact, however and maybe we are talking go to game 2/3.
How to win against extremely early "god" starts is a challenge of the format. I don't see Dig as format warping any more than any of the other big blue cards. That they made it good enough to play in vintage MIGHT have been in error but I doubt it. Blue gets to select cards. Restricting it makes no sense to me.
As to banning Griselbrand or Goryo's Vengeance in Modern, I see no point. Yes turn 1 wins in Modern are anathema to the philosophy of the format but that is a very rare occurrence and it is not unique to this deck archetype. And there is certainly plenty of hate to bring in from sideboards if you wish to insure it not happening.
To reiterate: No bans?? No surprises there...
Now that said I am sure some friends of mine would love to see Prophet of Kruphix banned from Commander just because: Annoying cards are annoying. I lent my Tasigur deck to someone at the EDH last week and they got god draw after god draw and even with 3 of us actively fighting them in the end they won. Of course by then Prophet had long since been exiled but he played his part for sure.
Keeping in mind my opinions are those of a casual observer more than a competitor.
According to Gatherer, there are 3 enchantment removal in Origins. 2 @ common (Caustic Caterpillar, and Enlightened Ascetic); 1 @ uncommon (Conclave Naturalists).
I always appreciate questions :)
1. I want to say it is in a good position but feel like it can still be easily hated out if Dromoka's command sees more play. It also can suffer from splash hate like Drown in Sorrow, Languish, and Virulent Plague. If those cards see less play than Tokens can see more play.
2. When I played Tokens I always feared playing against the big green decks unless I was able to counter their big threats and get under them or get Ascendancy online very quickly. Devotion really is just a strong consistent deck even though personally I am not a fan of it.
Yea I am not the most tech savvy but I can try to make better lists in the future. I think that Thopter deck can be really good as long as it keeps getting worked on and becomes even more finely tuned.
Nice tips Carl, some excellent advice there.
Hi Marcus,
Can I ask you two questions?
1. Do you think that Jeskai Tokens is well-placed in the format right now?
2. In your testing, did Jeskai Tokens have a good or bad matchup against Green/Red Devotion?
Thanks,
Michelle
Welcome back! You've successfully out Haitused me. :D Glad to see you are still among the comedic and casual. I am a big fan of Thrashing Wumpus, so I am glad to see him get some love, though he didn't make your final lists.
Hey I know it is a lot of work putting deck lists in with fixed links but it really pays off. Especially with the new sets. At least reordering the lists so that creatures go in the creatures column would be a nice thing to do.
The Thopters deck is one I've been hearing about (and at least one of the people talking about it was a friend who went to Chicago.) I am hopeful to see it perform well and curious how it will shape up as formats shift.
Keep Writing.
You know Serra actually has 3 different images from its many incarnations and Gabriel Angelfire I'd argue for having iconic art (from Legends) so I would not expect new art from either. Now replacing Gabriel with a playable (read modern) angel like Sigarda is certainly sensible but WOTC's choices in these vault sets tend to be inscrutable to say the least.
Goblins can cause a big problem if people do not have a plan for it. I agree with you there. As far UB and Esper out of those 2 UB is where you want to be. Esper Dragons I think is dropping quickly out of favor.. Languish does not play well with Ojutai. :)
Great article.
Chicago surprised me because:
1. I stand behind Mono Red Goblins. It is truly a frightening deck to play against, and I am surprised that no one reached the top 8. The Obelisk of Urd gives it an extra edge, because one can no longer fight Mono Red by saying "Let's survive the initial assault and gain some life". I say: Prepare to watch people be piledrived! It will happen at Pro Tour Origins.
2. Where were the Blue/Black or Esper decks in Top 8? This archetype received an excellent new addition with Languish. Green/Red Devotion is very vulnerable to Languish because it wipes out all their mana producers before it's too late.
Michelle
Yes Mana Leak is certainly a good playable card. It just so ubiquitous as an effect.
And Tron of course is good. But it wasn't popular at all until Post was banned. Even in OLD extended and Over Extended. The reason being that while the effect of achieving turn 3 Tron is indeed powerful (Karn! 2-3 beaters or Wurmcoil are all insane turn 3 plays as is All is Dust) the set had been around since Antiquities (I foolishly traded away a Time Walk for a set + other cards not realizing how great the disparity was at the time) and no one really used them for powerful plays before Modern came a long.
And the reason is evolution. They were put into 8th edition because no one at WOTC ever even dreamed of Modern format back then. I just find Tron to be a sleeper is all. Similar to how Summer Bloom suddenly became a tournament staple recently despite the combo for it with Amulet had been out since 2012. I wrote an article about it then (BECAUSE it was obscure) and people were like: "oh that's cute."
True, I was turned on to Amulet Bloom by BDM who had seen mention of it on MTG Salvation (A place where much of the great discussions about card interactions start, I find.) My point being, Modern is a format with a lot of sleepers that await certain bans/restrictions or printings to become really good and relevant.
Yeah Bop is an iconic card. It was one of the most colorful cards I received in my initial Unlimited packs and I was happy to have it. It is also scarcely seen and many pod decks didn't bother with it.
If a good deck pops up again that loves having BOP in it I will consider the format a lot friendlier to fun that it is now.
I knew I was on a bit of a time crunch to get the article out, but I didn't expect the product shot so soon. It reveals three cards: Akroma, Angel of Wrath (already known), Avacyn, Angel of Hope (correct, and without new art--perfect!), and Iona, Shield of Emeria (new art). That last one is the most surprising, and it makes it even more confusing why Linvala, Keeper of Silence wasn't in MM15--even with new art, Iona doesn't need a lot of printings (especially since it's one of the more casual-unfriendly cards). While Iona easily slots in for Linvala in the Modern slot, the art is a much bigger question. Both Serra Angel and Gabriel Angelfire really want new art, so that leaves me with two choices:
1. Keep Gabriel Angelfire with new art, and Serra Angel becomes the original art, in modern border for the first time.
2. Keep Serra Angel with new art, and replace Gabriel Angelfire with Sigarda, Host of Herons
I have a feeling they're going to go with the second option--it's probably the better option for the value of the set (as well as keeping their current vision of angels), but it means there isn't any unique card they can use to sell the set.
Thanks for the comment Paul.
Well my list isn't necessarily my favourite cards but the cards I think are most impactful on the format. Obviously the cards that see the most play are more impactful than the marginal cards. Though I can appreciate there are a number of different ways to approach making such a list - listing the most unique effects would probably make quite a different list.
Blood Moon made the Top 8 because it is a unique effect that you can't find anywhere else in Modern - well Magus of the Moon aside.
I'm interested in how you feel Mana Leak is irrelevant. It certainly sees a lot of play or are you referring to the fact that is easily replacable. I will certainly concede that if Mana Leak wasn't in the format I'm sure we would simply see Rune Snag, Deprive and the various other counterspells available take its place.
I feel Tron is a pretty big player in the format. Yes it isn't as good as Cloudpost was but that hasn't been legal in Modern since the very early days and we have to work with what we've got. There isn't a reasonable substitute anywhere else in Modern and its the element that allows cards like Karn and Ugin to be playable in the format.
I probably rated Birds of Paradise too highly in terms of its current impact on the format. However, it was very important to Pod decks and still sees play but it's not as significant as it once was. Probably showing my own bias rating it so highly. Still very iconic.
Sleight of Hand is not an attractive option but for a while it was at least the second best we had.
Yeah fighting against blood moon can be fun if your deck is designed to do so. That's one reason I loved pod decks. The flexibility and resilience.
I'm saving this read for tonight when the wife nods off. I'm going to be doing a ton of Sealed and Draft when Origins hits.
Thanks!
Blood Moon is my favorite Modern card period. Funny but true, I have never played it! I probably need to go get me a deck that lets me cast Blood Moon so I can finally be the one to hose someone with it instead of getting hosed.
Why is a card I never play my favorite? It shuts down Bloom and TRON. I love love love love love love love to watch live coverage of paper matches where that turn 2 Blood Moon drops (or turn 3 or 4 or 5, actually any turn) and causes an immediate concession.
"Blood Moon. Gross. Can't beat that." Scoops.
One of my greatest thrills was as a Pod player managing to win through a turn 3 Blood Moon. It would happen a surprising amount of times with Melira, but was even more fun when I was playing Kiki Pod but the opponent through it was the ole Abzan/Junk Pod. They'd snap off that Blood Moon and I could FEEL them grinning wickedly behind their monitor. Then, I'd use all those fresh Mountains they gave me to hard cast the triple Red Kik-Jiki, ditch a 3 cmc creature to pod and Drop Restoration Angel.... did it to yourself, homie.
Ahhhhhhhhh so good to be back into Modern again.
Great article.
Um, it's spelled like as a joke, to capitalize Angel, given the whole from the vault angels speculation right now.
Honestly I am not sure I'd pick any of the above as a favorite. They have varying degrees of usefulness, Prime Time and Blood Moon being the most interesting with Ooze and Bolt probably seeing the most play. Mana Leak seems irrelevant and while Tron is important it is does not really shine as an example of a ported card. It is merely the best colorless mana in the format since post was banned. (Though the number of Tron variants shows just how popular that strategy has been in Modern.) Birds is one of my favorite cards from Alpha onward but I would not think of it as a playable card vs the cut throat decks that compromise competitive modern. (Though I used to put 3-4 in Pod anyway. :))
Of the honorable mentions, Treetop is clearly the winner for me, with Grim Lavamancer a close second. Rancor is a card you see sometimes pop up when Stompy or Auras raise their ugly heads and That's fine. Pyroclasm is a necessary sweeper if you are only able to splash red so as to avoid paying RR1 for Anger of the Gods or Volcanic Fallout.
And Sleight of Hand is what is left after all the good cantrips have been banned to avoid a Legacy feel to Modern. Not a fan.
The spoiled art is Avian ChANGELing, yep spelled like that on the card apparently. But I don't think its real as it missing the Wizards copyright bottom right.
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
... Brago and Strionic Resonator. I think I'm in love. Thank you!
I've been enjoying Vish Kal and Illusionist's Bracers recently. Any commander with a powerful activated ability being copied for free is good times.
I already built a Tribal Mite-Twin deck......
and it was so much worse than Bazaar's
That's an interesting point. Kiki sees almost no play in the format these days. I cannot see any problem with Kiki staying unbanned if the day came that they banned Splinter Twin. The fact he costs 5 rather than 4, and actually has quite a restrictive mana cost with triple red, is very significant. Also, the fact that you can answer Kiki with a Lightning Bolt in a way you cannot answer a Splinter Twin on a Deceiver Exarch is a big factor.
If Twin were banned I think that deck would just die as Kiki is not a suitable substitute for Twin, which if they were looking to ban Twin would be the desired effect. Leaving Kiki as a permitted option is nice though as it does mean the combo still exists in some form.
Just for clarity I don't think Twin should be banned but back at the last set of bannings there were a lot of people calling for it, which I imagine puts it on WOTC's radar. Recent results don't support a Twin ban though and I think it would kind of fly in the face of their Turn 4 Combo rule to ban Twin, though I'm sure they'll do whatever is necessary for a balanced format.
I think leave all the versions for now. The list is long, but not unwieldy. Plus, if you remove some, do you leave the highest or lowest? Some people like to know when to buy, others to watch the market.
Also, the improvements didn't do anything for trade. Now I crash about every 3rd bot transaction, and its freezes up my whole computer to load a trade collection.
Important update (that I didn't give in the article and should have): The Changeling Issue is now mentioned in the Bug Blog under Client Known Issues. As a Legacy Tribal Wars-marked item! This means they acknowledge it officially and are going to fix it! Eventually.
If asked without listening to the commentary of Joe and Josh I probably would have shrugged at the no bans. It is what I expected. We just had a series of bans last time. And they seem to have worked. Good.
The only commentary I would have added to the ban/restricted list no changes discussion is that a) Shops particular Martello variants are very beatable. Turn 1 Chalice set to 1 or 0 certain hurts a lot. It is not game over by itself anymore than turn 1 lodestone golem is. Follow that up with a tax artifact, however and maybe we are talking go to game 2/3.
How to win against extremely early "god" starts is a challenge of the format. I don't see Dig as format warping any more than any of the other big blue cards. That they made it good enough to play in vintage MIGHT have been in error but I doubt it. Blue gets to select cards. Restricting it makes no sense to me.
As to banning Griselbrand or Goryo's Vengeance in Modern, I see no point. Yes turn 1 wins in Modern are anathema to the philosophy of the format but that is a very rare occurrence and it is not unique to this deck archetype. And there is certainly plenty of hate to bring in from sideboards if you wish to insure it not happening.
To reiterate: No bans?? No surprises there...
Now that said I am sure some friends of mine would love to see Prophet of Kruphix banned from Commander just because: Annoying cards are annoying. I lent my Tasigur deck to someone at the EDH last week and they got god draw after god draw and even with 3 of us actively fighting them in the end they won. Of course by then Prophet had long since been exiled but he played his part for sure.
Keeping in mind my opinions are those of a casual observer more than a competitor.
According to Gatherer, there are 3 enchantment removal in Origins. 2 @ common (Caustic Caterpillar, and Enlightened Ascetic); 1 @ uncommon (Conclave Naturalists).