Great to see you back again Alex and I love lists. I still can't get my pauper on yet but I enjoy reading about it. :) Ignoring the negativity I have to agree (as a total outsider) that Crypt Rats seems like the most format warping card of the bunch.
I think what Shard meant is, if you just assume your op is a better player than he may be you don't fall into such traps as "He's a noob I can afford to be 'loose'". Which is generally good advice to players. Don't play loose if you want to win. Even if your op is a total scrub. It may come down to luck of the draw anyway but if you play it tight you will benefit.
I pretty much agree with this. The upside to cracking it is not offset by giving even trivial information to your op. Of course WHEN is a factor. I am inconsistent. I sometimes crack right away not caring if my op thinks it suboptimal or gains information. Other times I am cautious and do nothing extraordinary. A lot of that has to do with MY intuition about the skill of my op and or my mood that day. (Both are equal parts.) I admit that I am not a "Good" player as even though I can beat anyone given the right circumstances I tend to make sub par plays and build less than tier 1 decks. Even when I have a high tier deck I don't necessarily remember every out, every possible answer, every threat. I try to but my brain despite being erroneously categorized as 'supercomputer' from the blackboard mtg site does not live up to the hype. In that sense I think this kind of choice has a lot more to do with personality than we'd like to admit. And people's personalities do change with mood, distractions, temperature, physical well-being etc. (Don't catch me on a bad day, I can be a total ass.)
I think it is informative to decide ahead of time, I will not sac the terramorphic till the botes of my opponent. This gains me strategic value in that if I do this consistently enough it becomes automatic (habit) and I no longer have to decide this every game. This gives me the option to tap it as a swamp (or mountain) if my op plays Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth, or Blood Moon etc. It also means his first turn won't be spent attempting to destroy my land (unless HE's a bad player) since I can just sac in response.
Will's idea of saving time (F6 through the rest of the turn) is most often why I opt to be a bad player rather than be patient. I hate having to cycle through my ops turn AND occasionally I will hit F6 by accident because I am Mr Fumble Fingers. Most often an accidental F6 is potentially enough to lose a game. F3 cancels it but only if you are lightning fast.
With regards to posting LSV's decklist- I did so for marketing purposes. If someone is just learning about the format, but knows enough about Magic to recognize the name/initials LSV, then they might be more intrigued.
With regards to the anonymous comment- Goblins was, in my opinion, a tier one deck before Zendikar came online. Counting from the deck's first appearance in a top 8 (On September 27th) until Zendikar's Release (October 19th), there were 4 Pauper Weekend Challenges. Out of a possible 32 top 8 slots, Goblins claimed 6, or nearly 19% of the Top 8. Only MBCu had more appearances by my count (11, accounting for over 34% of all Top 8 slots).
As for Rats vs Sledder/Raider for my choice for top creature- this was close, and I went back and forth a few times. Rats is a limiting factor of the format and an absolutely fantastic creature, but MBC decks can succeed without the card in the main. While it presents a true threat, I feel that Raider/Sledder are better for the following reasons:
1)They potentially represent more damage in their deck, thanks to Mogg War Marshal or Dragon Fodder (two mana for three damage; Rats is a 1:1 ratio)
2)They counteract the best removal spell in the format
3) Goblins, as we understand it, would not exist without having the full compliment of these creatures. Recent Black based and Black/Blue control lists have been eschewing Rats due to their ineffectiveness against the current field.
If you are into this kind of thinking, I'm working on modeling a game for "Who's the Beatdown?" and it looks like there are a lot of hidden assumptions in the original theory. But nothing's for sure until I figure out the game properly.
Hey dude, dont mind me, there is nothing wrong w/ cracking lands @ EoT. It showed a sign that YOU are actually a good player, that as much as we all know. :-)
But this is not what Will is trying to say.
(I would jus like to talked about a psychological part.)
I give ya an example, if ya played against me, and i played a fetchland (in this case, a fetchland would always refer to a Terramorphic Expanse) too, n i cracked it @ your EoT, ya gonna assume im a decent player as well, yes? And how do a decent player plays against another decent player? Both players will play as perfectly as possible. The outcome of the match would be determined by who has a better draw (assuming we played mirror decks, n we played perfectly).
Given another senario, if ya played against me, n i played a fetchland, n cracked it immediately, it will send 2 kinda little information to ya. 1stly, a portion of the color of my deck. 2ndly, im a n00b, or close to it. (right? do i get ya agreement on this?)
This is what Will is trying to say. If i really am a noob, then ya would probably relax ya guard a little, knowing that ya playing against an inferior player (its more like a human nature thing). Ya know ya wouldn't b punished, or punished badly for making bad plays (as a noob hardly spots a mistake?) then if ya are playing against a decent player.
But... What if im not a noob? I just made another decent play let down his guard... BAM! Ya get what im saying?
It doesnt mean fetching on ya turn will drop ya oppn's guard. If Martin Juza were to fetch on his turn, do ya think his oppn will let down his guard? (i know i wouldnt. Sorry Martin :P)
Fetching on ya turn gives ya a potential advantage. Ya oppn might not fall for it, n if they don't, it doesn't make much of a diff as per discussed aboved. But if, just if, ya oppn took ya fetching on ya turn as a sign of noobism, and let his guards down, plays snoobishly... Ya get to punish them for underestimating ya.
I hope i havent pulled any nerves, but thats how i felt what Will is trying to say: The reward for bluffing ya oppn outweighs the informatical advantage ya give them on a "crack Terramorphic Expanse on my turn."
Do let me know if ya think my point's invalid or unrealistic. :-)
maybe it has to do with the fact that giving away so many promo's kinda negates the whole idea of promo. all i know is most promo's ive bought are the same price as the nonpromo versions...mkes it kind of pointless for them to exist
or instead of trying to infer if your opponent is good or bad based on when they crack land, just assume they are good. It will save a lot of heartache. And most opponents probably dont care when you crack your own expanse, if you are in an event they will still play to win regardless.
Hello, I just joined and will be participating soon. I have had some terrible teeth whitening experiences I would like to share...I finally found something that worked but the first few products I used were terrible. Let me read a few posts then I'll be back to share.
Nate i wouldn't worry about it too much Alex is obviously out of touch with the format as he hasn't been playing in at all, and is just looking at deck lists and guessing at what makes things tick rather then have the play experience himself. Else he'd know that the little green men were only tier2 till bushwacker got released. And crypt rats not being the top creature? A card that helps define the entire format and had been called out by the masses for banning till goblins came on the radar in mass, not the top creature really?
Didnt see it mentioned anywhere here:
Also starting on January 6th, Daily Events, Premier Events and Weekend Challenges will NO longer give out promo cards as part of the prizes.
Any of u know what their reasons are why they did this?
...
The Shards of Alara Block Booster Pack (Premium Foil) will not be sold in the Magic Online store, but will be available in other ways.
I always like Maze of Shadows in the sideboard of my control decks, but Wasteland is also necessary against Volrath's Stronghold, which is pretty much gg if you can't deal with it.
Didnt see it mentioned anywhere here:
Also starting on January 6th, Daily Events, Premier Events and Weekend Challenges will NO longer give out promo cards as part of the prizes.
Any of u know what their reasons are why they did this?
...
The Shards of Alara Block Booster Pack (Premium Foil) will not be sold in the Magic Online store, but will be available in other ways.
Given that your opponent can't infer anything about you, except from any infamy your screen name may have, it would be more beneficial to pop immeidately.
If your opponent is good - They will tilt you more toward the 'bad player' flag and may play much looser.
If your opponent is bad - They will infer nothing, and continue to run their head into the wall.
If you wait to pop
Good Opp - Will be aware that you are at least decent, and play as such.
Bad Opp - Will infer little, or possibly think you are a better player.
Possible advantage over a better opponent > Marginal advantage over a lesser opponent.
First, very, very few players need to make bad plays in order to bluff being bad. Most make plenty of suboptimal plays unintentionally.
Second, it's a bad bluff. As soon as I see a color, I am going to start thinking about how I am going to win, what I have to play around, etc. That isn't going to change very significantly based on whether I think you are a "good" or "bad" player - I am going to assume that you are reasonably good and playt accordingly. I may not have to play technically perfectly to beat a bad player, but I want to maintain a high level of play all the time, so that I don't get lazy.
I watched a bunch of games when writing that article. I never modified my player because I thought the player was "bad." I did modify my play based on the color of land I saw maybe one in seven games - or call it one in ten to be conservative.
So, in roughly ten percent of the games, you recommend giving your opponent game-changing free advice simply to bluff being a bad player? Does not seem like much of a bluff.
I can get behind the forgetting to blow EoT and time saving arguments, especially for players playing in mulitple events at once. I guess - but I don't play in two t once, if I can avoid it, so I don't have to make those trade-offs.
@holding the Marsh Flats: holding the fetchland is the right play, since the deck thinning is really minimal and the slightly increased chanche of drawing a spell is offset by the life loss (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?id=3096) and the additional value you gain by getting a Bloodghast back.
All of this talk is just reminding me of my personal golden age of magic. I started playing right before Ice Age and have fond memories of winning with Necro and Prison. However, it was during the Mirage, Tempest, Urza's block where I had the most fun playing this game.
At that time I had graduated from college and got my job teaching so I had no problems getting pretty much any card I needed. Scroll was my favorite card to play, so much so, that I started playing aggro decks instead of my usual control. It was during Mercadian Masques that my daughter was born and I felt like I needed to stop playing. Thankfully Duels of the Planeswalkers came out and on a whim I started playing. I now have five kids and play magic. Life is great.
Ah memories! I also realize that I am sounding really old:)
i think this is far too much effort attributed to the cracking of terramorphic expanse. Its a land fetch card. In draft, it really doesn't matter either way in my opinion. If your playing it in constructed holding it till the end of your opponents turn game 1 makes sense in an effort to prolong them from knowing what you are playing.
That said Im not so lazy that i cant pay attnetion and crack it during my opponents end phase which is what i will continue to do.
Like the article, one quibble: LSV is the man, but shouldn't credit for the decklist have gone to the guy who played the exact same 75 the week before?
yeah
i very xcited for the news decks becasue...all and all and all are goblins and this is...awfull
Woohoo repeating post...yay lag? Oh wait this time it was the 504 that caused that.
Great to see you back again Alex and I love lists. I still can't get my pauper on yet but I enjoy reading about it. :) Ignoring the negativity I have to agree (as a total outsider) that Crypt Rats seems like the most format warping card of the bunch.
I think what Shard meant is, if you just assume your op is a better player than he may be you don't fall into such traps as "He's a noob I can afford to be 'loose'". Which is generally good advice to players. Don't play loose if you want to win. Even if your op is a total scrub. It may come down to luck of the draw anyway but if you play it tight you will benefit.
I pretty much agree with this. The upside to cracking it is not offset by giving even trivial information to your op. Of course WHEN is a factor. I am inconsistent. I sometimes crack right away not caring if my op thinks it suboptimal or gains information. Other times I am cautious and do nothing extraordinary. A lot of that has to do with MY intuition about the skill of my op and or my mood that day. (Both are equal parts.) I admit that I am not a "Good" player as even though I can beat anyone given the right circumstances I tend to make sub par plays and build less than tier 1 decks. Even when I have a high tier deck I don't necessarily remember every out, every possible answer, every threat. I try to but my brain despite being erroneously categorized as 'supercomputer' from the blackboard mtg site does not live up to the hype. In that sense I think this kind of choice has a lot more to do with personality than we'd like to admit. And people's personalities do change with mood, distractions, temperature, physical well-being etc. (Don't catch me on a bad day, I can be a total ass.)
I think it is informative to decide ahead of time, I will not sac the terramorphic till the botes of my opponent. This gains me strategic value in that if I do this consistently enough it becomes automatic (habit) and I no longer have to decide this every game. This gives me the option to tap it as a swamp (or mountain) if my op plays Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth, or Blood Moon etc. It also means his first turn won't be spent attempting to destroy my land (unless HE's a bad player) since I can just sac in response.
Will's idea of saving time (F6 through the rest of the turn) is most often why I opt to be a bad player rather than be patient. I hate having to cycle through my ops turn AND occasionally I will hit F6 by accident because I am Mr Fumble Fingers. Most often an accidental F6 is potentially enough to lose a game. F3 cancels it but only if you are lightning fast.
With regards to posting LSV's decklist- I did so for marketing purposes. If someone is just learning about the format, but knows enough about Magic to recognize the name/initials LSV, then they might be more intrigued.
With regards to the anonymous comment- Goblins was, in my opinion, a tier one deck before Zendikar came online. Counting from the deck's first appearance in a top 8 (On September 27th) until Zendikar's Release (October 19th), there were 4 Pauper Weekend Challenges. Out of a possible 32 top 8 slots, Goblins claimed 6, or nearly 19% of the Top 8. Only MBCu had more appearances by my count (11, accounting for over 34% of all Top 8 slots).
As for Rats vs Sledder/Raider for my choice for top creature- this was close, and I went back and forth a few times. Rats is a limiting factor of the format and an absolutely fantastic creature, but MBC decks can succeed without the card in the main. While it presents a true threat, I feel that Raider/Sledder are better for the following reasons:
1)They potentially represent more damage in their deck, thanks to Mogg War Marshal or Dragon Fodder (two mana for three damage; Rats is a 1:1 ratio)
2)They counteract the best removal spell in the format
3) Goblins, as we understand it, would not exist without having the full compliment of these creatures. Recent Black based and Black/Blue control lists have been eschewing Rats due to their ineffectiveness against the current field.
-Alex
If you are into this kind of thinking, I'm working on modeling a game for "Who's the Beatdown?" and it looks like there are a lot of hidden assumptions in the original theory. But nothing's for sure until I figure out the game properly.
And sad but true about nuance.
@ ShardFenix's comments:
Hey dude, dont mind me, there is nothing wrong w/ cracking lands @ EoT. It showed a sign that YOU are actually a good player, that as much as we all know. :-)
But this is not what Will is trying to say.
(I would jus like to talked about a psychological part.)
I give ya an example, if ya played against me, and i played a fetchland (in this case, a fetchland would always refer to a Terramorphic Expanse) too, n i cracked it @ your EoT, ya gonna assume im a decent player as well, yes? And how do a decent player plays against another decent player? Both players will play as perfectly as possible. The outcome of the match would be determined by who has a better draw (assuming we played mirror decks, n we played perfectly).
Given another senario, if ya played against me, n i played a fetchland, n cracked it immediately, it will send 2 kinda little information to ya. 1stly, a portion of the color of my deck. 2ndly, im a n00b, or close to it. (right? do i get ya agreement on this?)
This is what Will is trying to say. If i really am a noob, then ya would probably relax ya guard a little, knowing that ya playing against an inferior player (its more like a human nature thing). Ya know ya wouldn't b punished, or punished badly for making bad plays (as a noob hardly spots a mistake?) then if ya are playing against a decent player.
But... What if im not a noob? I just made another decent play let down his guard... BAM! Ya get what im saying?
It doesnt mean fetching on ya turn will drop ya oppn's guard. If Martin Juza were to fetch on his turn, do ya think his oppn will let down his guard? (i know i wouldnt. Sorry Martin :P)
Fetching on ya turn gives ya a potential advantage. Ya oppn might not fall for it, n if they don't, it doesn't make much of a diff as per discussed aboved. But if, just if, ya oppn took ya fetching on ya turn as a sign of noobism, and let his guards down, plays snoobishly... Ya get to punish them for underestimating ya.
I hope i havent pulled any nerves, but thats how i felt what Will is trying to say: The reward for bluffing ya oppn outweighs the informatical advantage ya give them on a "crack Terramorphic Expanse on my turn."
Do let me know if ya think my point's invalid or unrealistic. :-)
Cheers~! ('',)
"...For I am the Wind."
maybe it has to do with the fact that giving away so many promo's kinda negates the whole idea of promo. all i know is most promo's ive bought are the same price as the nonpromo versions...mkes it kind of pointless for them to exist
or instead of trying to infer if your opponent is good or bad based on when they crack land, just assume they are good. It will save a lot of heartache. And most opponents probably dont care when you crack your own expanse, if you are in an event they will still play to win regardless.
As for the promos we can only guess. They determined promos weren't helping sales.
As for the packs I am going to go ahead and guess as replacement prizes for Events instead of Arb packs.
Hello, I just joined and will be participating soon. I have had some terrible teeth whitening experiences I would like to share...I finally found something that worked but the first few products I used were terrible. Let me read a few posts then I'll be back to share.
Nate i wouldn't worry about it too much Alex is obviously out of touch with the format as he hasn't been playing in at all, and is just looking at deck lists and guessing at what makes things tick rather then have the play experience himself. Else he'd know that the little green men were only tier2 till bushwacker got released. And crypt rats not being the top creature? A card that helps define the entire format and had been called out by the masses for banning till goblins came on the radar in mass, not the top creature really?
Didnt see it mentioned anywhere here:
Also starting on January 6th, Daily Events, Premier Events and Weekend Challenges will NO longer give out promo cards as part of the prizes.
Any of u know what their reasons are why they did this?
...
The Shards of Alara Block Booster Pack (Premium Foil) will not be sold in the Magic Online store, but will be available in other ways.
Any of u know how?
I always like Maze of Shadows in the sideboard of my control decks, but Wasteland is also necessary against Volrath's Stronghold, which is pretty much gg if you can't deal with it.
Didnt see it mentioned anywhere here:
Also starting on January 6th, Daily Events, Premier Events and Weekend Challenges will NO longer give out promo cards as part of the prizes.
Any of u know what their reasons are why they did this?
...
The Shards of Alara Block Booster Pack (Premium Foil) will not be sold in the Magic Online store, but will be available in other ways.
Any of u know how?
Elves will probably be a serious contender, now with Priest of Titania. Acridian is also an awesome card against the current field.
Given that your opponent can't infer anything about you, except from any infamy your screen name may have, it would be more beneficial to pop immeidately.
If your opponent is good - They will tilt you more toward the 'bad player' flag and may play much looser.
If your opponent is bad - They will infer nothing, and continue to run their head into the wall.
If you wait to pop
Good Opp - Will be aware that you are at least decent, and play as such.
Bad Opp - Will infer little, or possibly think you are a better player.
Possible advantage over a better opponent > Marginal advantage over a lesser opponent.
I don't buy it.
First, very, very few players need to make bad plays in order to bluff being bad. Most make plenty of suboptimal plays unintentionally.
Second, it's a bad bluff. As soon as I see a color, I am going to start thinking about how I am going to win, what I have to play around, etc. That isn't going to change very significantly based on whether I think you are a "good" or "bad" player - I am going to assume that you are reasonably good and playt accordingly. I may not have to play technically perfectly to beat a bad player, but I want to maintain a high level of play all the time, so that I don't get lazy.
I watched a bunch of games when writing that article. I never modified my player because I thought the player was "bad." I did modify my play based on the color of land I saw maybe one in seven games - or call it one in ten to be conservative.
So, in roughly ten percent of the games, you recommend giving your opponent game-changing free advice simply to bluff being a bad player? Does not seem like much of a bluff.
I can get behind the forgetting to blow EoT and time saving arguments, especially for players playing in mulitple events at once. I guess - but I don't play in two t once, if I can avoid it, so I don't have to make those trade-offs.
@holding the Marsh Flats: holding the fetchland is the right play, since the deck thinning is really minimal and the slightly increased chanche of drawing a spell is offset by the life loss (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?id=3096) and the additional value you gain by getting a Bloodghast back.
All of this talk is just reminding me of my personal golden age of magic. I started playing right before Ice Age and have fond memories of winning with Necro and Prison. However, it was during the Mirage, Tempest, Urza's block where I had the most fun playing this game.
At that time I had graduated from college and got my job teaching so I had no problems getting pretty much any card I needed. Scroll was my favorite card to play, so much so, that I started playing aggro decks instead of my usual control. It was during Mercadian Masques that my daughter was born and I felt like I needed to stop playing. Thankfully Duels of the Planeswalkers came out and on a whim I started playing. I now have five kids and play magic. Life is great.
Ah memories! I also realize that I am sounding really old:)
Please forgive a 38 year old his rambling
buffalo chicken pizza is one of the greatest foods ever invented.
i think this is far too much effort attributed to the cracking of terramorphic expanse. Its a land fetch card. In draft, it really doesn't matter either way in my opinion. If your playing it in constructed holding it till the end of your opponents turn game 1 makes sense in an effort to prolong them from knowing what you are playing.
That said Im not so lazy that i cant pay attnetion and crack it during my opponents end phase which is what i will continue to do.
I like this sort of thinking, sounds like a good tip for a scrub like me.
One note though, it's "nuance" not "nuisance" in your opening paragraph.
Like the article, one quibble: LSV is the man, but shouldn't credit for the decklist have gone to the guy who played the exact same 75 the week before?