Well, Kiln Field + Tunneler requires instants which tend to either be at a premium in ROE or pretty bad. The ability to utilize kiln fiend fully with See Beyond, Surreal Memoir, etc. is very nice. Distortion Strike + Kiln Fiend is 10 damage on its own, requires a smaller set of cards to combo, and goes online turn 3. You can basically win the game with just an unmolested Kiln Fiend + Distortion Strike + Mnemonic Wall. Obviously falters are playable, but I would seriously consider abandoning the Kiln Fiend endeavor if you, for example, notice early pack distortion strikes not wheeling.
Also, just to supplement the article, Eel umbra is quite solid here as you mention. It's vital versus decks with even a modicum of removal.
I think playing regress is fine for this deck in the first four turns. You've got a lot of card advantage, after all. And most decks don't play out serious early threats that the wall actually does much to stop. Most early attackers in aggressive decks are either going to have evasion or 4 power (Kiln Fiend, Beastbreaker, Wildheart Invoker, possibly Bramblesnap, Dread Drone (although that isn't really "early"), etc.) I think you can more than afford the 4-8 life from an "early" 2/2 or 3/3 in this deck.
Also, you forgot about last kiss... and with double wall I really wouldn't feel too bad about vendettaing an early guy too as long as you keep a narc or what not in your hand for a real threat.
Right, if you are just talking about a random aggressive deck then sure, you probably don't want kiln fiend.
For a kiln fiend deck though there are PLENTY of ways to get the fiend through other than distortion strike, and some of them don't risk card disadvantage.
One method is simply killing your opponent's blockers. This is probably the best strategy, but it requires a lot of removal so it's not likely to work very often except for lucky draws and the rare occasions where you just get passed a lot of burn.
Another method is Goblin Tunneler. He's a bit slower than distortion strike but if he isn't removed he can ultimately help get more damage through.
The final method is to use other falter effects like wrap in flames or reality spasm. The latter is pretty much worse than distortion strike imo, but the former can be better against some decks.
whiffing is akward but it's worth noting that OPs deck has 20 colourless cards. in such a deck your chances of whiffing are 1/(2^5) which is about 3%. i suppose that's actually a lot higher than i was expecting. awkward. it's harder to whiff than gift of the gargantuan though...
I disagree about distortion strike being unnecessary. I actually think it is the other way around. If I had to choose between kiln fiends and distortion strikes for my aggressive deck, i would rather have distortion strike. Without a way to get in, your kiln fiend is just going to trade with some dork.
I rarely run Ancient Stirrings because the last time I used it the spell completely whiffed and I felt rather embarrassed. I think my opponent "LOL"-d too.
@lumbydan: that's a similar argument to people who tomescour away an opponent's lightning bolt and think it's negatively affected them. it's just as likely that there's a good card 6 cards down. Ancient stirrings has only 2 downsides to it:
it costs G instead of zero (making it effectively a land that comes into play tapped if you can reliably hit G on turn 1). an opening hand with a stirrings and 2 islands is pretty akward (or, worse yet, 2 stirrings and an island), but a hand with a forest, island, and stirrings is almost certainly better than 3 basics.
also, it can miss (though this is extremely rare).
so, there's some disadvantages. what do you get in return? well the biggest benefit of stirrings is it lets you run a card that, early game is a land, and late game is a land that sometimes is an eldrazi. running 3 or 4 eldrazi can be incredibly awkward as, normally, drawing more than 2 is overkill, and even drawing 2 early on can be disastrous. stirrings let you lower the eldrazi count. ramp decks, traditionally, have had a huge problem: sometimes you draw all your ramp. sometimes you draw all your threats. having a card that helps you find which ever of the two are lacking is extremely important. i am never unhappy playing 3 stirrings in an eldrazi ramp deck, and will normally run 1 or 2 (counting each as half a land).
My biggest problem is the small creatures. You don't have much that can stand up to a 3/4 blocker (unless you level up forever.)
I don't even know why you went blue. You passed over a lot of red creatures & instants and white auras.
My first picks would've been:
1. Channelers (agree)
2. Bala Ged (to attack with 4/4 on turn 3. Maybe Predator or Staggershock. You can't go on the offensive with Vendetta.)
3. Tuktuk (opponent won't block it and won't attack into it because you'd get an easy 5/5.)
4. Hyena Umbra (+1/+1, first strike, and a free life? Cha-ching!)
5. Battle-Rattle Shaman (A boon to your attacking prowess, even on the turn that it comes into play. At worst, it's a 4/2 attacker for 3R. Instead you went with 2 creature damage for 2B? That's not good removal! At least go for the flier or the cantrip.)
6. Kiln Fiend (maybe Repel the Darkness)
7. Grotag Siege-Runner (in case somebody tries defenders.)
8. Kor Line-Slinger (will tap a lot of things while you overrun opponent early)
9. Explosive Revelation (you get to keep the last card. Wrap in Flames is okay too.)
I think you misunderstand the point of this article. I am not discussing Kiln Fiend as a card in general, but as an archetype in Rise of Eldrazi limited. I do not play pauper and have no experience with that format. In fact I don't play any constructed formats right now.
I'm not sure why I would show a decklist in an article about draft that isn't a review of a particular draft. I know some people like to show "sample" decklists of a particular archetype but honestly I do not see the point in that. Every draft is different and each pick is going to be influenced not only by what I am drafting but the cards in the packs in general. Without posting an entire draft review, just posting a decklist in a vacuum is meaningless.
Also just for what it's worth, in these articles I use the word "deck" and "archetype" interchangeably. The writing would get pretty monotonous if I used archetype like 10 times in a row without mixing it up at all!
I don't think the Kiln Fiend deck actually NEEDS distortion strike. It definitely does need kiln fiend though. Obviously having some strikes is desirable, but if you get enough removal and other falter effects you can be fine without it.
really though a kiln deck needs 2 cards-kiln fiends and distortion strikes.
I have started running distortion strike in other U/x decks with very good results. It has consistently gotten 6-10 points of damage in, with potential for more. A very underrated card.
I do apologize for knocking the Reinforced Bulwark. No, I've definitely never played with the card myself. That is due to a combination of my own evaluation of the card when I first was learning ROE draft, and because in over 75 drafts I've never seen a single Bulwark on my opponent's side of the board.
If you say the card has merits in an ultra-controlling type of deck, then I will believe you. I have no experience to counter that claim.
Angels are my favorite tribe of all times and the Angel's Trumpet deck really is an excellent idea. Just one thing: I would personally replace those 2x Voice of All with 2x Baneslayer Angel (or with 1x Baneslayer Angel & 1x Karmic Guide (or with 2x Admonition Angel to remove unwanted permanents)).
Awesome article. I remember when I first started playing I ran into a guy who said he found a deck list on the internet and wanted to try it out. It was the Dolan list, and needless to say my Sedge trolls, nightmares and Sengir vampires didn't stand a chance.
Archangel was big time back then. A bigger Serra Angel with cooler set? Sounds awesome!
Interesting decks too. I knew there was a use for Angels Trumpet.
That's exactly right. You're happy to have him when you have a Snake, Drake or Boar Umbra, but most of the time he's just an average man that doesn't contribute to your deck's theme (whatever that may be).
I've been on both sides of powerful Kiln Fiend decks before. Dealing out a turn 4 kill is thrilling, and losing to it is infuriating because you probably had no way of stopping it.
Yes, unfortunately Consume the Meek does wreck most of my team. I'm glad I was able to grab it up and not an opponent. Luckily, I can either choose to play it or not depending on the situation.
Stomper Cub is better in an Aura themed deck, or with tricks like Might of the Masses. But, you're right, not always playable.
Stomper Cub is borderline unplayable in ROE draft. I was surprised to see you take it on P1P3. Because it's a bad card, shipping it wouldn't be sending a bad signal about green. If you passed it, the person next to you would think, "Oh look, an incredibly mediocre green card. This doesn't make me think green is open at all."
I thought your deck turned out ok though. B/U levelers without any Teachers is rough though. Sucks that Consume the Meek wrecks most of your team, too.
Well, Kiln Field + Tunneler requires instants which tend to either be at a premium in ROE or pretty bad. The ability to utilize kiln fiend fully with See Beyond, Surreal Memoir, etc. is very nice. Distortion Strike + Kiln Fiend is 10 damage on its own, requires a smaller set of cards to combo, and goes online turn 3. You can basically win the game with just an unmolested Kiln Fiend + Distortion Strike + Mnemonic Wall. Obviously falters are playable, but I would seriously consider abandoning the Kiln Fiend endeavor if you, for example, notice early pack distortion strikes not wheeling.
Also, just to supplement the article, Eel umbra is quite solid here as you mention. It's vital versus decks with even a modicum of removal.
fantastic stuff even though I was hoping for a bit more lore to go with :)
I think playing regress is fine for this deck in the first four turns. You've got a lot of card advantage, after all. And most decks don't play out serious early threats that the wall actually does much to stop. Most early attackers in aggressive decks are either going to have evasion or 4 power (Kiln Fiend, Beastbreaker, Wildheart Invoker, possibly Bramblesnap, Dread Drone (although that isn't really "early"), etc.) I think you can more than afford the 4-8 life from an "early" 2/2 or 3/3 in this deck.
Also, you forgot about last kiss... and with double wall I really wouldn't feel too bad about vendettaing an early guy too as long as you keep a narc or what not in your hand for a real threat.
Right, if you are just talking about a random aggressive deck then sure, you probably don't want kiln fiend.
For a kiln fiend deck though there are PLENTY of ways to get the fiend through other than distortion strike, and some of them don't risk card disadvantage.
One method is simply killing your opponent's blockers. This is probably the best strategy, but it requires a lot of removal so it's not likely to work very often except for lucky draws and the rare occasions where you just get passed a lot of burn.
Another method is Goblin Tunneler. He's a bit slower than distortion strike but if he isn't removed he can ultimately help get more damage through.
The final method is to use other falter effects like wrap in flames or reality spasm. The latter is pretty much worse than distortion strike imo, but the former can be better against some decks.
whiffing is akward but it's worth noting that OPs deck has 20 colourless cards. in such a deck your chances of whiffing are 1/(2^5) which is about 3%. i suppose that's actually a lot higher than i was expecting. awkward. it's harder to whiff than gift of the gargantuan though...
I disagree about distortion strike being unnecessary. I actually think it is the other way around. If I had to choose between kiln fiends and distortion strikes for my aggressive deck, i would rather have distortion strike. Without a way to get in, your kiln fiend is just going to trade with some dork.
Aye that is why I like the thesaurus. :D
I rarely run Ancient Stirrings because the last time I used it the spell completely whiffed and I felt rather embarrassed. I think my opponent "LOL"-d too.
@lumbydan: that's a similar argument to people who tomescour away an opponent's lightning bolt and think it's negatively affected them. it's just as likely that there's a good card 6 cards down. Ancient stirrings has only 2 downsides to it:
it costs G instead of zero (making it effectively a land that comes into play tapped if you can reliably hit G on turn 1). an opening hand with a stirrings and 2 islands is pretty akward (or, worse yet, 2 stirrings and an island), but a hand with a forest, island, and stirrings is almost certainly better than 3 basics.
also, it can miss (though this is extremely rare).
so, there's some disadvantages. what do you get in return? well the biggest benefit of stirrings is it lets you run a card that, early game is a land, and late game is a land that sometimes is an eldrazi. running 3 or 4 eldrazi can be incredibly awkward as, normally, drawing more than 2 is overkill, and even drawing 2 early on can be disastrous. stirrings let you lower the eldrazi count. ramp decks, traditionally, have had a huge problem: sometimes you draw all your ramp. sometimes you draw all your threats. having a card that helps you find which ever of the two are lacking is extremely important. i am never unhappy playing 3 stirrings in an eldrazi ramp deck, and will normally run 1 or 2 (counting each as half a land).
"Gabriel Angelfire is not a female."
Wow I didn't realise that in all the years I've been playing
My biggest problem is the small creatures. You don't have much that can stand up to a 3/4 blocker (unless you level up forever.)
I don't even know why you went blue. You passed over a lot of red creatures & instants and white auras.
My first picks would've been:
1. Channelers (agree)
2. Bala Ged (to attack with 4/4 on turn 3. Maybe Predator or Staggershock. You can't go on the offensive with Vendetta.)
3. Tuktuk (opponent won't block it and won't attack into it because you'd get an easy 5/5.)
4. Hyena Umbra (+1/+1, first strike, and a free life? Cha-ching!)
5. Battle-Rattle Shaman (A boon to your attacking prowess, even on the turn that it comes into play. At worst, it's a 4/2 attacker for 3R. Instead you went with 2 creature damage for 2B? That's not good removal! At least go for the flier or the cantrip.)
6. Kiln Fiend (maybe Repel the Darkness)
7. Grotag Siege-Runner (in case somebody tries defenders.)
8. Kor Line-Slinger (will tap a lot of things while you overrun opponent early)
9. Explosive Revelation (you get to keep the last card. Wrap in Flames is okay too.)
I think you misunderstand the point of this article. I am not discussing Kiln Fiend as a card in general, but as an archetype in Rise of Eldrazi limited. I do not play pauper and have no experience with that format. In fact I don't play any constructed formats right now.
I'm not sure why I would show a decklist in an article about draft that isn't a review of a particular draft. I know some people like to show "sample" decklists of a particular archetype but honestly I do not see the point in that. Every draft is different and each pick is going to be influenced not only by what I am drafting but the cards in the packs in general. Without posting an entire draft review, just posting a decklist in a vacuum is meaningless.
Also just for what it's worth, in these articles I use the word "deck" and "archetype" interchangeably. The writing would get pretty monotonous if I used archetype like 10 times in a row without mixing it up at all!
I don't think the Kiln Fiend deck actually NEEDS distortion strike. It definitely does need kiln fiend though. Obviously having some strikes is desirable, but if you get enough removal and other falter effects you can be fine without it.
Angels are a fun tribe.
One little correction though---- Gabriel Angelfire is not a female.
world at war is amazing in the kiln fiend deck.
really though a kiln deck needs 2 cards-kiln fiends and distortion strikes.
I have started running distortion strike in other U/x decks with very good results. It has consistently gotten 6-10 points of damage in, with potential for more. A very underrated card.
I do apologize for knocking the Reinforced Bulwark. No, I've definitely never played with the card myself. That is due to a combination of my own evaluation of the card when I first was learning ROE draft, and because in over 75 drafts I've never seen a single Bulwark on my opponent's side of the board.
If you say the card has merits in an ultra-controlling type of deck, then I will believe you. I have no experience to counter that claim.
Happy anniversary!
Angels are my favorite tribe of all times and the Angel's Trumpet deck really is an excellent idea. Just one thing: I would personally replace those 2x Voice of All with 2x Baneslayer Angel (or with 1x Baneslayer Angel & 1x Karmic Guide (or with 2x Admonition Angel to remove unwanted permanents)).
LE
You kept mentioning "DECK" and never showed one.
I covered this card at lenght with regards to pauper, if anyone is bored or missed it:
http://puremtgo.com/articles/burning-kiln
Awesome article. I remember when I first started playing I ran into a guy who said he found a deck list on the internet and wanted to try it out. It was the Dolan list, and needless to say my Sedge trolls, nightmares and Sengir vampires didn't stand a chance.
Archangel was big time back then. A bigger Serra Angel with cooler set? Sounds awesome!
Interesting decks too. I knew there was a use for Angels Trumpet.
I am not a big fan of ancient stirrings. I played it and it seemed like I would have to ship a good card to the bottom for a land.
That's exactly right. You're happy to have him when you have a Snake, Drake or Boar Umbra, but most of the time he's just an average man that doesn't contribute to your deck's theme (whatever that may be).
I've been on both sides of powerful Kiln Fiend decks before. Dealing out a turn 4 kill is thrilling, and losing to it is infuriating because you probably had no way of stopping it.
Yes, unfortunately Consume the Meek does wreck most of my team. I'm glad I was able to grab it up and not an opponent. Luckily, I can either choose to play it or not depending on the situation.
Stomper Cub is better in an Aura themed deck, or with tricks like Might of the Masses. But, you're right, not always playable.
Nice read whiffy. Always makes me smile when I can read about Legacy on here.........we need more people writing about this wonderful format.
Yea, I'm looking at you! and you......oh and you too!
Stomper Cub is borderline unplayable in ROE draft. I was surprised to see you take it on P1P3. Because it's a bad card, shipping it wouldn't be sending a bad signal about green. If you passed it, the person next to you would think, "Oh look, an incredibly mediocre green card. This doesn't make me think green is open at all."
I thought your deck turned out ok though. B/U levelers without any Teachers is rough though. Sucks that Consume the Meek wrecks most of your team, too.