Some thoughts on how UW Control might change with the release of Scars:
My current UW Control decklist (after having removed the O-rings and Paths that are about to rotate out and replacing them with Condemns and Journey to Nowhere, and removing my Elspeths for the still legal Gideon Juras) is:
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Sejiri Refuge
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Arid Mesa
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
4x Plains
4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2x Jace Beleren
2x Gideon Jura
2x Sun Titan
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4x Wall of Omens
4x Mana Leak
2x Deprive
2x Cancel
2x Condemn
2x Journey to Nowhere
4x Day of Judgment
2x Jace's Ingenuity
I should note that credit for this decklist is due in no small part to Westane from this site, who has posted several articles on UW Control.
I sided in the Sanctifiers and Divine Offerings into my board because of the heavy presence of artifacts in Scars. I plan to replace my Cancels with Stoic Rebuttals and my Sejiri Refuges with Seachrome Coasts.
Here are the cards that I am at least considering to be in the running for possible additions after Scars is released. Note that a few of these cards are not Scars cards, but previously released cards that I think might be playable because of new Scars cards.
Spreading Seas are fine, and I will always fit them in if I can.
Sea Gate Oracle and Aether Adept are a couple of cards that work well with Sun Titan and Venser, the Sojourner.
Mox Opal and Everflowing Chalice are artifacts that can be played (with some utility) that open up the possibility of hitting the metalcraft artifact count for other cards.
Ratchet Bomb is a strong removal spell that is worthy of consideration.
Argent Sphinx is a new card that offers some potential for UW Control, though I am not sure it is good enough to replace Sphinx of Jwar Isle, depsite its lower casting cost.
Steady Progress is a cantrip that adds counters, so that could be useful, but I am skeptical since it would involve changing the deck a lot to include more cards that would benefit from the addition of counters.
Arrest is a card that seems ok, but I am not sure there is really a good reason to play it while Journey to Nowhere is still in the format.
Leonin Arbiter seems like a fine sideboard card for UW Control.
Platinum Emperion and Wurmcoil Engine. These are a couple of very decent creatures. Not sure that I would take out Sun Titan or Sphinx of Jwar Isle for them, but they are at least worth thinking about.
Finally, of course the two relevant planeswalkers are possibilities. Venser seems like it is more the type of card that requires a deck to be built around it, while Elspeth or more a natural fit into the existing UW Control deck. For example, I think that Elspeth is probably worth bringing in to replace my Gideon Juras.
So obviously I have named a lot more cards that are possible to play in the deck, but that is where I am at right now is just thinking about possibilities. I'm no pro so I would be happy to hear anyone else's thoughts about UW Control post-Scars release.
Thanks guys, it definitely helped that the deck ran well.
The hate definitely won me games, but a lot of games were won by good old fashioned merfolk beatdown and counter control. That's why I don't think that the deck is necessarily going anywhere anytime soon. Merfolk is a shell which can be morphed to fit a variety of metas.
I think the switch is personal for everyone. I started MTGO because my lifestyle changed. I used to play magic till 3 am with a bottle O Whiskey. Now I'm married and teach college. I still play with my in real life friends and own my all my in real life cards however with the price of mtgo cards, my mtgo is waaaaaay better. But the times I do get together is in real life is fun but a element of the past the whiskey is now wine and the bed time is 11 pm. MTGO works for me because I can play when I have a spare moment. In real life, I have to make a night of it. MTGO works because I have a few hours here and there and its a fun way to spend those hours. (Plus I loving writing articles ;) )
I would love to do just that, but I constantly get concessions in the tourney practice room when people find out I'm not playing a top tier deck. Basically I have no where to play casually online and with hundreds of players available whenever I decide to sign on...that's a pretty sad state of affairs.
How much would they charge for a Constructed PTQ anyway? Isn't it like $25? I seem to recall thinking many times for RL PTQs that the Limited and Constructed costs were much closer together than logic would suggest.
Your 100% right, my mistake. I forgot it said attacking creature, can't look at the card pictures where I'm at at the moment. I'd still hate it over a junk rare though.
I would prefer "Ith won't shut up" to "Ith can't shut up". The one you wrote implies an inability to shut up, whereas my suggestions actually shows a refusal to shut up, despite the ability to do so.
I'm not a fan of G/R, but if I had to be in it I would like it to look something like this. You already pointed out the pyroclasm, and I'm inclined to agree. I tend to hate it if I'm playing an aggressive deck unless there is something really strong for me in the pack. I think you underestimate the strength of infantry vet though, that guy makes the white aggro deck hum. With him on the board white starts dominating the combat step, and he gets much better with multiples. Getting one or more in a w aggro deck is really strong, and he tends to be a high pick for the archtype. He also blanks your pyromancers ability to kill off critters if he comes down first(although they blank him entirely in return and the pyro can still hit the dome), and hes costed to come down first. Of course if you get your pyro first he's screwed, but I'd rather avoid the worse situation entirely and have open season on his Pegasi and other x/1's.
I keep both paper and online collections, and i try my best to keep up with both, altho mythics have made this infinitely more difficult.
My reasoning for playing paper is probably different than most, since i don't value socializing at all, in fact i prefer playing online and not having to talk, or shuffle, or keep track of triggers, or drive, or wear cloths, ok maybe not that last one. No, I play paper magic because i like to play with more unique looking cards than everyone else in the room, some people also call this deck pimping. Online, my llanowar elf looks just like your llanowar elf, theres almost no way to make mine unique other than foils, which i don't really consider pimp at all. (hey i'm allowed to have my own preferences) In paper, I get to play with foreign language llanowar elf, get it signed, get the artwork altered, and myriad ways to make my card look different than yours, or anyone else's.
So yea, i spend the majority of my magic gaming online, but i still like to keep my paper cards, because they are unique, they are mine!
Taking the time to post a list like that seems condescending in tone to me. I realize this is an inference but it is still a valid comment. Also note that I agreed with the post in essence if not in style.
Most people don't make sideboards. Casual players do not design decks with sideboards. Pretty much the only people who make sideboards for their decks are people who play competitively, have played competitively, or expect to play competitively. The exception I suppose is if people are net decking, but then again, that's not going to be a casual deck.
No matter how much you hope or wish more people would make sideboards, it ain't gonna happen. Making sideboards is work, it's not fun, and for casual players has essentially no payoff. Sideboarding is pretty much by definition bringing in hate against a specific deck type, and that is pretty much by definition not fun:
You: Hey I just sideboarded in 4 Hydroblasts!
Casual Player: SCREW YOU. [block]
Sideboards are pretty much the essence, the epitome of non-casualness. They were introduced for tournament play in the first place. There is nothing fun about sideboards, and the only reason to use them is if you are playing to win. So take it to the tourney practice room; it has no business in the casual room.
As an aside, the tourney practice room should pretty much always be 2/3 matches.
That's very feasable. At the very least it wasn't difficult at all to put together and maintain one competitive deck at a time and trade stuff away when you wanted to play something else. The duals in RAV were kind of tough, put you could always trade duals you didn't need for duals you needed. Things didn't get ridiculous until Goyf, and that was very much an accident of design. At least Goyf maintains his value in legacy though, his cost was directly related to his ridiculous and accidental power and not so much market manipulation through the new form of rarity introduced. It really is a much different game today.
Heck I used to be a very active trader and without spending money on packs at all outside sealed/draft I managed to keep up with the competitive cards for the most part. (That was 10 years ago+ though.)
I certaintly can play to win in those formats, but Wizards doesn't try very hard to put Spikes into those formats. The more that is at stake, the more people bring their A game. I care about winning, yes. More importantly though is what is gained from trying your best to win in the most competitive of situations. The weekend pdc is not likely to provide the same level of intensity as gunning for top 8 at the ptq. Playing to win can even be more important than winning in these extreme cases. Strive to beat your imperfections and improve upon your strengths through competition and practice, winning will come naturally from that process.
I agree with you, it would be pretty crazy to try to own 4x of every competitive rare in standard today. That was not always the case though, at one point that was reasonably obtainable if you bought a box of every set and drafted a lot. Maybe even pick up a few cards in trade here and there to pad out what your missing, buy a handfull of singles perhaps. If you were a good limited player, this was very doable on a budget. It doesn't work that way anymore, its more like Yu-Gi-Oh! where the rarity of the cards forces you to go to the secondary market. If magic was always this way I'd have no basis for my dissatisfaction, but the change is bad for players like myself.
I think the point being made which you seem to be ignoring (almost to the point of intransigence?) is that it isn't about what your opponent brings. Your opponent may bring counters, discard, aggro goblins, burn, geddon.dec, turn 2 combo etc. It is how your frame of mine is set up to deal with these things that makes the difference in the quality of your experience.
I mean look: You play chess and it sounds to me like you are probably a B or maybe an A level player (Based on your claim of breaking even with the hustlers most of the time.) How would you feel if you sat down to play and your op played a counter variation that not only didn't you know about but turned out to be very strong against what you chose to play (Richterrouser vs Scicilian Najdorf for example) and resulted in a crushing defeat? I'd want to know more about that variation, wouldn't you? If only so I'd know how to avoid the pitfalls for either side.
That is how I see people bringing discomforting decks. Sure it is nice when your op leaves you alone to do your thing so that your turn 11 combo gets into gear and suddenly the conflict is in high tension, with lots of tactical play involved. But rarely do games really work out like that even against the most casual opponents.
I don't always react well to having my spells countered, particularly when it is counter after counter after counter with vials and stuff making the board untenable. (Vial Fish is evil imho.) And I get hating to see Acidic Slime/Avalanche Riders come down and destroy that one land you needed to pull of the 6cmc spell you wanted to cast next turn (or even to keep you at 2 mana while your op has 4-5.) It is frustrating and you feel powerless to stop it. But you can do any number of things OTHER than act like the person violated some higher code of ethics (which every magic player learns at birth.)
- You can offer to play again after conceding and bring a deck guaranteed to punish land destruction (terra eternal + ramp + crucible of worlds + life from the loam for example) or ignore it (elves, goblins, soldiers).
- You can grin and bear it because you are enabling them to enjoy the game. And then tell them afterward how good their deck is and how sad it is that land destruction is so painful to play against, and then (politely) share your feelings. (Not very man card here but you get bonus points for expressing humanity.)
- You can build your decks with the inconviencers in mind (I used to run gaea's blessings x3-4 in my decks during the height of the mill fever when everyone in casual seemed in love with Glimpse the Unseen etc.)
- You can rant at them and block them before they can respond. I don't recommend this approach. Blocking someone for what they play is not treating the problem but the symptom. While it may give you some slight satisfaction at shutting someone out it isn't very sociable and is very insular. (You will find yourself quite alone if you treat others hostilely for not thinking as you do.)
- You can explain how much you hate playing against that deck and wish them luck and move on without blocking or being rude. This alternative gives you some leeway to accept it if they choose to change their ways.
All I am saying is what that other fellow said about how finding common ground on a personal level is the only way to play mutually beneficial magic be it professionally, casually, or anywhere in between. You can choose to be angry or you can take action. (Or take angry action alternatively.) Everyone of course is going to do it differently and some of us (myself for example) may take multiple approaches choosing one after another seems unsatisfactory.
Some thoughts on how UW Control might change with the release of Scars:
My current UW Control decklist (after having removed the O-rings and Paths that are about to rotate out and replacing them with Condemns and Journey to Nowhere, and removing my Elspeths for the still legal Gideon Juras) is:
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Sejiri Refuge
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Arid Mesa
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
4x Plains
4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2x Jace Beleren
2x Gideon Jura
2x Sun Titan
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4x Wall of Omens
4x Mana Leak
2x Deprive
2x Cancel
2x Condemn
2x Journey to Nowhere
4x Day of Judgment
2x Jace's Ingenuity
Sideboard:
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Flashfreeze
2x Celestial Purge
2x Negate
2x Luminarch Ascension
2x Kor Sanctifiers
2x Divine Offering
I should note that credit for this decklist is due in no small part to Westane from this site, who has posted several articles on UW Control.
I sided in the Sanctifiers and Divine Offerings into my board because of the heavy presence of artifacts in Scars. I plan to replace my Cancels with Stoic Rebuttals and my Sejiri Refuges with Seachrome Coasts.
Here are the cards that I am at least considering to be in the running for possible additions after Scars is released. Note that a few of these cards are not Scars cards, but previously released cards that I think might be playable because of new Scars cards.
Spreading Seas
Sea Gate Oracle
Aether Adept
Everflowing Chalice
Prophetic Prism
Mox Opal
Ratchet Bomb
Argent Sphinx
Steady Progress
Arrest
Leonin Arbiter
Platinum Emperion
Wurmcoil Engine
Elspeth Tirel
Venser, the Sojourner
Spreading Seas are fine, and I will always fit them in if I can.
Sea Gate Oracle and Aether Adept are a couple of cards that work well with Sun Titan and Venser, the Sojourner.
Mox Opal and Everflowing Chalice are artifacts that can be played (with some utility) that open up the possibility of hitting the metalcraft artifact count for other cards.
Ratchet Bomb is a strong removal spell that is worthy of consideration.
Argent Sphinx is a new card that offers some potential for UW Control, though I am not sure it is good enough to replace Sphinx of Jwar Isle, depsite its lower casting cost.
Steady Progress is a cantrip that adds counters, so that could be useful, but I am skeptical since it would involve changing the deck a lot to include more cards that would benefit from the addition of counters.
Arrest is a card that seems ok, but I am not sure there is really a good reason to play it while Journey to Nowhere is still in the format.
Leonin Arbiter seems like a fine sideboard card for UW Control.
Platinum Emperion and Wurmcoil Engine. These are a couple of very decent creatures. Not sure that I would take out Sun Titan or Sphinx of Jwar Isle for them, but they are at least worth thinking about.
Finally, of course the two relevant planeswalkers are possibilities. Venser seems like it is more the type of card that requires a deck to be built around it, while Elspeth or more a natural fit into the existing UW Control deck. For example, I think that Elspeth is probably worth bringing in to replace my Gideon Juras.
So obviously I have named a lot more cards that are possible to play in the deck, but that is where I am at right now is just thinking about possibilities. I'm no pro so I would be happy to hear anyone else's thoughts about UW Control post-Scars release.
Happy to oblige!
I have a similar recollection, though I haven't played in a paper PTQ since about 2002.
Thanks guys, it definitely helped that the deck ran well.
The hate definitely won me games, but a lot of games were won by good old fashioned merfolk beatdown and counter control. That's why I don't think that the deck is necessarily going anywhere anytime soon. Merfolk is a shell which can be morphed to fit a variety of metas.
I think the switch is personal for everyone. I started MTGO because my lifestyle changed. I used to play magic till 3 am with a bottle O Whiskey. Now I'm married and teach college. I still play with my in real life friends and own my all my in real life cards however with the price of mtgo cards, my mtgo is waaaaaay better. But the times I do get together is in real life is fun but a element of the past the whiskey is now wine and the bed time is 11 pm. MTGO works for me because I can play when I have a spare moment. In real life, I have to make a night of it. MTGO works because I have a few hours here and there and its a fun way to spend those hours. (Plus I loving writing articles ;) )
I haven't logged into MTGO in maybe 8 days. That streak will end tonight.
But in the meantime, thank you Ith and Hamtastic for keeping me informed while I'm off doing other stuff.
I would love to do just that, but I constantly get concessions in the tourney practice room when people find out I'm not playing a top tier deck. Basically I have no where to play casually online and with hundreds of players available whenever I decide to sign on...that's a pretty sad state of affairs.
Scoring the Forums
Anyways, If they don't make V4 totally web browser based, they're dumb.
Is there a reason the podcast had a genre tag of "blues"? Made it a bit hard to find on my device.
How much would they charge for a Constructed PTQ anyway? Isn't it like $25? I seem to recall thinking many times for RL PTQs that the Limited and Constructed costs were much closer together than logic would suggest.
Your 100% right, my mistake. I forgot it said attacking creature, can't look at the card pictures where I'm at at the moment. I'd still hate it over a junk rare though.
You do realize that pyromancer can just kill the vet right?
I would prefer "Ith won't shut up" to "Ith can't shut up". The one you wrote implies an inability to shut up, whereas my suggestions actually shows a refusal to shut up, despite the ability to do so.
I'm not a fan of G/R, but if I had to be in it I would like it to look something like this. You already pointed out the pyroclasm, and I'm inclined to agree. I tend to hate it if I'm playing an aggressive deck unless there is something really strong for me in the pack. I think you underestimate the strength of infantry vet though, that guy makes the white aggro deck hum. With him on the board white starts dominating the combat step, and he gets much better with multiples. Getting one or more in a w aggro deck is really strong, and he tends to be a high pick for the archtype. He also blanks your pyromancers ability to kill off critters if he comes down first(although they blank him entirely in return and the pyro can still hit the dome), and hes costed to come down first. Of course if you get your pyro first he's screwed, but I'd rather avoid the worse situation entirely and have open season on his Pegasi and other x/1's.
yep! it's the +EV play
I keep both paper and online collections, and i try my best to keep up with both, altho mythics have made this infinitely more difficult.
My reasoning for playing paper is probably different than most, since i don't value socializing at all, in fact i prefer playing online and not having to talk, or shuffle, or keep track of triggers, or drive, or wear cloths, ok maybe not that last one. No, I play paper magic because i like to play with more unique looking cards than everyone else in the room, some people also call this deck pimping. Online, my llanowar elf looks just like your llanowar elf, theres almost no way to make mine unique other than foils, which i don't really consider pimp at all. (hey i'm allowed to have my own preferences) In paper, I get to play with foreign language llanowar elf, get it signed, get the artwork altered, and myriad ways to make my card look different than yours, or anyone else's.
So yea, i spend the majority of my magic gaming online, but i still like to keep my paper cards, because they are unique, they are mine!
Taking the time to post a list like that seems condescending in tone to me. I realize this is an inference but it is still a valid comment. Also note that I agreed with the post in essence if not in style.
Sheesh you people are prickly. The OP had no tone, condescending or otherwise.
Most people don't make sideboards. Casual players do not design decks with sideboards. Pretty much the only people who make sideboards for their decks are people who play competitively, have played competitively, or expect to play competitively. The exception I suppose is if people are net decking, but then again, that's not going to be a casual deck.
No matter how much you hope or wish more people would make sideboards, it ain't gonna happen. Making sideboards is work, it's not fun, and for casual players has essentially no payoff. Sideboarding is pretty much by definition bringing in hate against a specific deck type, and that is pretty much by definition not fun:
You: Hey I just sideboarded in 4 Hydroblasts!
Casual Player: SCREW YOU. [block]
Sideboards are pretty much the essence, the epitome of non-casualness. They were introduced for tournament play in the first place. There is nothing fun about sideboards, and the only reason to use them is if you are playing to win. So take it to the tourney practice room; it has no business in the casual room.
As an aside, the tourney practice room should pretty much always be 2/3 matches.
Hmm good point.
That's very feasable. At the very least it wasn't difficult at all to put together and maintain one competitive deck at a time and trade stuff away when you wanted to play something else. The duals in RAV were kind of tough, put you could always trade duals you didn't need for duals you needed. Things didn't get ridiculous until Goyf, and that was very much an accident of design. At least Goyf maintains his value in legacy though, his cost was directly related to his ridiculous and accidental power and not so much market manipulation through the new form of rarity introduced. It really is a much different game today.
Heck I used to be a very active trader and without spending money on packs at all outside sealed/draft I managed to keep up with the competitive cards for the most part. (That was 10 years ago+ though.)
I certaintly can play to win in those formats, but Wizards doesn't try very hard to put Spikes into those formats. The more that is at stake, the more people bring their A game. I care about winning, yes. More importantly though is what is gained from trying your best to win in the most competitive of situations. The weekend pdc is not likely to provide the same level of intensity as gunning for top 8 at the ptq. Playing to win can even be more important than winning in these extreme cases. Strive to beat your imperfections and improve upon your strengths through competition and practice, winning will come naturally from that process.
I agree with you, it would be pretty crazy to try to own 4x of every competitive rare in standard today. That was not always the case though, at one point that was reasonably obtainable if you bought a box of every set and drafted a lot. Maybe even pick up a few cards in trade here and there to pad out what your missing, buy a handfull of singles perhaps. If you were a good limited player, this was very doable on a budget. It doesn't work that way anymore, its more like Yu-Gi-Oh! where the rarity of the cards forces you to go to the secondary market. If magic was always this way I'd have no basis for my dissatisfaction, but the change is bad for players like myself.
I think the point being made which you seem to be ignoring (almost to the point of intransigence?) is that it isn't about what your opponent brings. Your opponent may bring counters, discard, aggro goblins, burn, geddon.dec, turn 2 combo etc. It is how your frame of mine is set up to deal with these things that makes the difference in the quality of your experience.
I mean look: You play chess and it sounds to me like you are probably a B or maybe an A level player (Based on your claim of breaking even with the hustlers most of the time.) How would you feel if you sat down to play and your op played a counter variation that not only didn't you know about but turned out to be very strong against what you chose to play (Richterrouser vs Scicilian Najdorf for example) and resulted in a crushing defeat? I'd want to know more about that variation, wouldn't you? If only so I'd know how to avoid the pitfalls for either side.
That is how I see people bringing discomforting decks. Sure it is nice when your op leaves you alone to do your thing so that your turn 11 combo gets into gear and suddenly the conflict is in high tension, with lots of tactical play involved. But rarely do games really work out like that even against the most casual opponents.
I don't always react well to having my spells countered, particularly when it is counter after counter after counter with vials and stuff making the board untenable. (Vial Fish is evil imho.) And I get hating to see Acidic Slime/Avalanche Riders come down and destroy that one land you needed to pull of the 6cmc spell you wanted to cast next turn (or even to keep you at 2 mana while your op has 4-5.) It is frustrating and you feel powerless to stop it. But you can do any number of things OTHER than act like the person violated some higher code of ethics (which every magic player learns at birth.)
- You can offer to play again after conceding and bring a deck guaranteed to punish land destruction (terra eternal + ramp + crucible of worlds + life from the loam for example) or ignore it (elves, goblins, soldiers).
- You can grin and bear it because you are enabling them to enjoy the game. And then tell them afterward how good their deck is and how sad it is that land destruction is so painful to play against, and then (politely) share your feelings. (Not very man card here but you get bonus points for expressing humanity.)
- You can build your decks with the inconviencers in mind (I used to run gaea's blessings x3-4 in my decks during the height of the mill fever when everyone in casual seemed in love with Glimpse the Unseen etc.)
- You can rant at them and block them before they can respond. I don't recommend this approach. Blocking someone for what they play is not treating the problem but the symptom. While it may give you some slight satisfaction at shutting someone out it isn't very sociable and is very insular. (You will find yourself quite alone if you treat others hostilely for not thinking as you do.)
- You can explain how much you hate playing against that deck and wish them luck and move on without blocking or being rude. This alternative gives you some leeway to accept it if they choose to change their ways.
All I am saying is what that other fellow said about how finding common ground on a personal level is the only way to play mutually beneficial magic be it professionally, casually, or anywhere in between. You can choose to be angry or you can take action. (Or take angry action alternatively.) Everyone of course is going to do it differently and some of us (myself for example) may take multiple approaches choosing one after another seems unsatisfactory.
Did you have a place to play paper? What motivated you to sell other than having your home taken over by silverfish? =)