I hadn't thought about Drain Power in years, but I came across it again when I was working on this article. Now I'm thinking about it every time I work on a deck, wishing it were available.
Oh well, I successfully campaigned to have Chains of Mephistopheles put into ME1, I can win this fight too!
Well I'm not sure that high card prices necessarily keep people from playing Standard, but it sure sucks having to be locked in to one deck choice. For anyone dropping $200-400 on Jaces + another $50-100 or so on the rest of your deck, I doubt it leaves that much room to be able to buy a $200 or so Ramp deck or a $100 or so RDW. You're sort of locked in to whatever deck you decide to make, unless you want to resell all of your cards and hope that your new deck will be better.
I remember back when I first got into tournament Standard when it was Mirage block + Rath cycle. You could easily build 2-4 decks because they were all about $50-100 bucks. The more expensive ones were Survival-Nightmare because it had a lot of rares, and Deadguy Red/Sligh (because of $17 Cursed Scrolls), but the CMU Blue Counter deck and White Weenie were fairly cheap. And when Urza's Saga came, Suicide Black was dirt cheap to build minus Sarcomancy. You could totally build your own mini-gauntlet and test and choose which deck you wanted to play. Those days are now gone since all the top Standard decks have their own unique sets of Mythics that will alone run you close to or well over $100.
Thats why I wouldnt release them umtil before the next set were to come out. Would still allow for plenty of boosters to be sold/used. Plus, think of the markup WotC would be getting on these. It cost them, what, less than a penny per card?
I kind of like this idea, since it moderates the impact of mythics a lot. I don't know that $100 is high enough without the entire booster price value being reduced as well since at that point boosters would just be a really bad deal.
I dont think WotC will ever sell singles, but I do think/wish they would sell complete sets. Release them before the next set, at a price point around $100/set. This gives the collectors something to collect, and the players the opportunity to get the cards they need at a reasonable price.
I agree that rogue strategies can work (with 50-100x the effort put in to research and test vs copied decks and only then if you are a fairly rare deck-builder that has both the time and skill to pull this off)
However I think the emphasis Felorin puts on rogue strats is way out of proportion to reality. First you have to assume that the extra time put in is worth $0.00, which of course it isn't. Then you have to face the reality that even after extensive testing and a great rogue deck builder you will very often fall flat and totally lose your admission fee for 1-3 events before you realize the results aren't flukes.
Money cards are money cards for good reason: Their power is out of proportion to the balance of the game. If you chose not to play with such obvious advantages you will always be fighting an uphill battle. You may catch those decks off guard here and there but once they're aware of your deck a couple of small modifications later they are back to dominating you and so you then have to put the 50-100x more prep in to find the next surprise for them.
Premier format constructed these days is only worth it imo if you have 40 hours a week to play events and have the bankroll to buy whatever deck you think is best at the time, having time to explore rogue strats is good as well but not necessary for success.
In the end the "value" of rogue strats is the satisfaction and/or adulation you receive when it works out well for you. If finances are a big issue for you stick to PREs, a small number of limited events per month and casual play.
That's my mountain of nickel/copper amalgam anyway
I think a lot of people need to resist the push by certain elements of the MTG community to get them to play Premier constructed formats when in reality they would be much better off playing magic in other ways.
I figured this out for myself awhile ago, and magic gives me everything I need to be endlessly entertained by it for very little money now(if not for my promotion of various budget alternatives it would cost me next to nothing).
I am happy that magic is a robust game and all of that comes from wizards being able to make cash off of selling their products, I don't think they needed mythics in their current incarnation to do that, but it really makes very little difference for me now.
I also think people have a right to be annoyed and to express that irritation. All communities benefit from all members of the community expressing their perspective except when that expression is meant to intimidate others into not expressing theirs.
I am sorry, but I don't get it. Its a game, they are $$. The anger seems misplaced imho... road rage suggests a person should drive differently, anger at a game suggests... well I don't know... but if you can't play it, don't imho.
I think you have valid points on both of those, particularly the Necropede. I need to reprogram my brain to consider him properly in non-poison decks. The wall is also quite good in any deck looking to buy time, it can block almost anything without dying. And buying time is just what this deck wants to do, so...
I used to feel exactly this way until I got sick of losing to carbon copy decks of the last tech run by pros because my rogue strategies while interesting and perhaps even innovative were no match for more skilled opponents running a deck they knew extremely well. That is part of the formula for professional success. Knowledge on an intuitive level. So in ingrained that you use it without needing to spend 30 mins analyzing every position and possibility.
I do think that BIG rares/mythics can be worked around as I do think that R&D tries to make rocks for every paper and scissor card but sometimes (unexpected at the time of printing) interactions outweigh individual considerations and you get a deck that just dominates because of the $$ cards in it. And those cards are $$ because they enable a deck that dominates and thus everyone wants it.
Sure jund gives way to 5control gives way to UW which gives way to RDW which gives way to Monogreen Beats etc...But this process requires cards and experience.
I think of each set/cycle as a maze with lots of dead ends and false passages and one way doors and traps galore. (Which indicates I think you are probably right about potential decks being missed.) It is easy to find your way through with a well established deck because someone else did the trail blazing trial and error work. Which is why people net deck of course. And even innovators (if they are good) know the field.
That kind of knowledge takes playing with the cards in the decks. For those who play solely online borrowing another player's deck isn't as casually done. So much testing with $$$ cards means buying those cards at least until results show those cards aren't really worth the hype. Now when those cards get sold because of this the $$$ goes way down and we get junk rares that we thought were good.
And I disagree with your last paragraph. If you used less hyperbole it might make more sense. 95%?? really? have you been to a PTQ recently? How bout a SCG Legacy 5k challenge? The tons of decks used in tourneys are almost all tier 1 or tier 1.5 clones. Few people bring rogue decks and those that do rarely win and we hear all about those that do succeed because they are rare. (Conely Woods being notorious because of his exceptional results with said decks for instance.) If everyone was doing this it wouldn't be a story.
Also 'need' is a funny word for a hobby or even a profession. The true professional gets the cards they 'need' because they know they must either get those cards or face not being a professional. So of course Necessity is the mother of invention and rogue deck builders thrive when there are $$$ cards that dominate a meta but eventually their inventions become common place if they succeed. And then they are off to build the antidote to their own poison.
I am aware that many players could continue playing as they always have and never see a Jace 2.0 and be perfectly content. But eventually everyone runs into Jace 2.0 if not in packs then facing it across the table. And it is a gap in the design space for your current decks if you can't possibly obtain it except through some outside force. So I totally understand Hamtastic's anger that Jace is going through the roof again as more formats make it a staple to be needed. In a fairer world WotC would have printed more antidote cards for the powerful mythics that can make playing magic hell for those who do not own them.
I think rogue deckbuilders will always get to play Standard cheaper than people who focus on playing the latest tournament-winning decks designed by other people. Whether you play the exact 75, or are into tweaking it to personalize it. The many other people also basing on the latest top tier decks will place all its rares & mythics in the highest demand, and make them the priciest.
I fully believe that if some omnipotent being could map out the best possible decks for the current standard, several of the latest tournament winning decks would be among them. But so would some decks that never get discovered, as the standard season rotates out without them all being found. As a rogue deckbuilder, if you even get party close to one of those "unknown tier 1 decks" you ought to be able to do decently - and without spending a mint.
You can also metagame against the current top tier decks, and very often the best answer cards or hate cards for your maindeck and sideboard don't cost nearly as much as the bombs they're answering. Compare the price of Valakut and Raging Ravine and Celestial Colonnade to the price of Tectonic Edge. Compare the price of planeswalkers to the price of Vampire Hexmage, Oblivion Ring, or even just some nice burn spells. Price of a Titan to Doom Blade and Journey to Nowhere. Not only the dollar price, but even the mana costs are lower.
Personally, I think if you could acheive (let's say) a 60% win record by netdecking a tournament deck, or a 55% win record by building the best deck you can out of your current collection plus trading for a few cards to fill in some gaps - quit whining and go play. Yes, it sucks that mythics cost a zillion dollars. All my non-blue decks have NO desire to run Jace anyway, as I've found he's very hard to cast without blue mana. Even if I did own four Jace, I wouldn't stop running green/black decks, red/white decks, red/black, and various three color combos. At my FNM, I don't even need to play a tier 2 deck to go 3-1 on the evening or even 4-0.
People focus TOO hard on the tournament scene, when most Magic players will play at tournaments that serious either A) never, or B) not often and they won't top 8 them much when they do. Like I said, mythic prices suck - but 99% of magic players really don't need a tier 1 deck for anything anyway, not ever. They just don't.
There's no way that a nonjace deck can't beat a jace-packed deck, same as there is a cure for Primevil valakut. If you metagame is cluttered with Primevil valakut and jace, just play Elf-monument. Heck even the $10 poison deck beats both
Awesome! AJ is a spurs fan! What a game on wednesday huh, great to see we're going somewhere after so many false dawns. Been a great fan of Freed from the Real since it began, keep up the good work!
I think an interview with Heath would be very interesting, if it wasn't for him there would be no PureMTGO and half of the PRE's would no longer have sponsors.
I've actually been playing Tribal Casual against AJ for quite some time before I found PureMTGO. He's always a fun and gracious opponent. Nice to hear more of his views (especially since its been forever since he's written an article it seems).
It does. It is populated by people lurking that generally ridicule any and all offers unless they are fairly wholesale (50% of claimed value)
Does the auction room still exist?
I hadn't thought about Drain Power in years, but I came across it again when I was working on this article. Now I'm thinking about it every time I work on a deck, wishing it were available.
Oh well, I successfully campaigned to have Chains of Mephistopheles put into ME1, I can win this fight too!
Well I'm not sure that high card prices necessarily keep people from playing Standard, but it sure sucks having to be locked in to one deck choice. For anyone dropping $200-400 on Jaces + another $50-100 or so on the rest of your deck, I doubt it leaves that much room to be able to buy a $200 or so Ramp deck or a $100 or so RDW. You're sort of locked in to whatever deck you decide to make, unless you want to resell all of your cards and hope that your new deck will be better.
I remember back when I first got into tournament Standard when it was Mirage block + Rath cycle. You could easily build 2-4 decks because they were all about $50-100 bucks. The more expensive ones were Survival-Nightmare because it had a lot of rares, and Deadguy Red/Sligh (because of $17 Cursed Scrolls), but the CMU Blue Counter deck and White Weenie were fairly cheap. And when Urza's Saga came, Suicide Black was dirt cheap to build minus Sarcomancy. You could totally build your own mini-gauntlet and test and choose which deck you wanted to play. Those days are now gone since all the top Standard decks have their own unique sets of Mythics that will alone run you close to or well over $100.
It could happen. Though finding time for that could be difficult. Heath is a busy man.
Thats why I wouldnt release them umtil before the next set were to come out. Would still allow for plenty of boosters to be sold/used. Plus, think of the markup WotC would be getting on these. It cost them, what, less than a penny per card?
I kind of like this idea, since it moderates the impact of mythics a lot. I don't know that $100 is high enough without the entire booster price value being reduced as well since at that point boosters would just be a really bad deal.
X-
I dont think WotC will ever sell singles, but I do think/wish they would sell complete sets. Release them before the next set, at a price point around $100/set. This gives the collectors something to collect, and the players the opportunity to get the cards they need at a reasonable price.
Good post Paul,
I agree that rogue strategies can work (with 50-100x the effort put in to research and test vs copied decks and only then if you are a fairly rare deck-builder that has both the time and skill to pull this off)
However I think the emphasis Felorin puts on rogue strats is way out of proportion to reality. First you have to assume that the extra time put in is worth $0.00, which of course it isn't. Then you have to face the reality that even after extensive testing and a great rogue deck builder you will very often fall flat and totally lose your admission fee for 1-3 events before you realize the results aren't flukes.
Money cards are money cards for good reason: Their power is out of proportion to the balance of the game. If you chose not to play with such obvious advantages you will always be fighting an uphill battle. You may catch those decks off guard here and there but once they're aware of your deck a couple of small modifications later they are back to dominating you and so you then have to put the 50-100x more prep in to find the next surprise for them.
Premier format constructed these days is only worth it imo if you have 40 hours a week to play events and have the bankroll to buy whatever deck you think is best at the time, having time to explore rogue strats is good as well but not necessary for success.
In the end the "value" of rogue strats is the satisfaction and/or adulation you receive when it works out well for you. If finances are a big issue for you stick to PREs, a small number of limited events per month and casual play.
That's my mountain of nickel/copper amalgam anyway
X-
I think a lot of people need to resist the push by certain elements of the MTG community to get them to play Premier constructed formats when in reality they would be much better off playing magic in other ways.
I figured this out for myself awhile ago, and magic gives me everything I need to be endlessly entertained by it for very little money now(if not for my promotion of various budget alternatives it would cost me next to nothing).
I am happy that magic is a robust game and all of that comes from wizards being able to make cash off of selling their products, I don't think they needed mythics in their current incarnation to do that, but it really makes very little difference for me now.
I also think people have a right to be annoyed and to express that irritation. All communities benefit from all members of the community expressing their perspective except when that expression is meant to intimidate others into not expressing theirs.
X-
I am sorry, but I don't get it. Its a game, they are $$. The anger seems misplaced imho... road rage suggests a person should drive differently, anger at a game suggests... well I don't know... but if you can't play it, don't imho.
I think you have valid points on both of those, particularly the Necropede. I need to reprogram my brain to consider him properly in non-poison decks. The wall is also quite good in any deck looking to buy time, it can block almost anything without dying. And buying time is just what this deck wants to do, so...
NO_Peace loves Drain Power to. Back in the day, when games went forever it was a kind of ramp... Good article again.
I used to feel exactly this way until I got sick of losing to carbon copy decks of the last tech run by pros because my rogue strategies while interesting and perhaps even innovative were no match for more skilled opponents running a deck they knew extremely well. That is part of the formula for professional success. Knowledge on an intuitive level. So in ingrained that you use it without needing to spend 30 mins analyzing every position and possibility.
I do think that BIG rares/mythics can be worked around as I do think that R&D tries to make rocks for every paper and scissor card but sometimes (unexpected at the time of printing) interactions outweigh individual considerations and you get a deck that just dominates because of the $$ cards in it. And those cards are $$ because they enable a deck that dominates and thus everyone wants it.
Sure jund gives way to 5control gives way to UW which gives way to RDW which gives way to Monogreen Beats etc...But this process requires cards and experience.
I think of each set/cycle as a maze with lots of dead ends and false passages and one way doors and traps galore. (Which indicates I think you are probably right about potential decks being missed.) It is easy to find your way through with a well established deck because someone else did the trail blazing trial and error work. Which is why people net deck of course. And even innovators (if they are good) know the field.
That kind of knowledge takes playing with the cards in the decks. For those who play solely online borrowing another player's deck isn't as casually done. So much testing with $$$ cards means buying those cards at least until results show those cards aren't really worth the hype. Now when those cards get sold because of this the $$$ goes way down and we get junk rares that we thought were good.
And I disagree with your last paragraph. If you used less hyperbole it might make more sense. 95%?? really? have you been to a PTQ recently? How bout a SCG Legacy 5k challenge? The tons of decks used in tourneys are almost all tier 1 or tier 1.5 clones. Few people bring rogue decks and those that do rarely win and we hear all about those that do succeed because they are rare. (Conely Woods being notorious because of his exceptional results with said decks for instance.) If everyone was doing this it wouldn't be a story.
Also 'need' is a funny word for a hobby or even a profession. The true professional gets the cards they 'need' because they know they must either get those cards or face not being a professional. So of course Necessity is the mother of invention and rogue deck builders thrive when there are $$$ cards that dominate a meta but eventually their inventions become common place if they succeed. And then they are off to build the antidote to their own poison.
I am aware that many players could continue playing as they always have and never see a Jace 2.0 and be perfectly content. But eventually everyone runs into Jace 2.0 if not in packs then facing it across the table. And it is a gap in the design space for your current decks if you can't possibly obtain it except through some outside force. So I totally understand Hamtastic's anger that Jace is going through the roof again as more formats make it a staple to be needed. In a fairer world WotC would have printed more antidote cards for the powerful mythics that can make playing magic hell for those who do not own them.
I think rogue deckbuilders will always get to play Standard cheaper than people who focus on playing the latest tournament-winning decks designed by other people. Whether you play the exact 75, or are into tweaking it to personalize it. The many other people also basing on the latest top tier decks will place all its rares & mythics in the highest demand, and make them the priciest.
I fully believe that if some omnipotent being could map out the best possible decks for the current standard, several of the latest tournament winning decks would be among them. But so would some decks that never get discovered, as the standard season rotates out without them all being found. As a rogue deckbuilder, if you even get party close to one of those "unknown tier 1 decks" you ought to be able to do decently - and without spending a mint.
You can also metagame against the current top tier decks, and very often the best answer cards or hate cards for your maindeck and sideboard don't cost nearly as much as the bombs they're answering. Compare the price of Valakut and Raging Ravine and Celestial Colonnade to the price of Tectonic Edge. Compare the price of planeswalkers to the price of Vampire Hexmage, Oblivion Ring, or even just some nice burn spells. Price of a Titan to Doom Blade and Journey to Nowhere. Not only the dollar price, but even the mana costs are lower.
Personally, I think if you could acheive (let's say) a 60% win record by netdecking a tournament deck, or a 55% win record by building the best deck you can out of your current collection plus trading for a few cards to fill in some gaps - quit whining and go play. Yes, it sucks that mythics cost a zillion dollars. All my non-blue decks have NO desire to run Jace anyway, as I've found he's very hard to cast without blue mana. Even if I did own four Jace, I wouldn't stop running green/black decks, red/white decks, red/black, and various three color combos. At my FNM, I don't even need to play a tier 2 deck to go 3-1 on the evening or even 4-0.
People focus TOO hard on the tournament scene, when most Magic players will play at tournaments that serious either A) never, or B) not often and they won't top 8 them much when they do. Like I said, mythic prices suck - but 99% of magic players really don't need a tier 1 deck for anything anyway, not ever. They just don't.
http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u27/titan_bgone.jpg
This guy played both black and green titans :D
I could have easily done him another 10 too btw :P
http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u27/jace_and_titan.jpg
This guy played jace and primevil titans
Seriously? I'd like to see some videos of that.
There's no way that a nonjace deck can't beat a jace-packed deck, same as there is a cure for Primevil valakut. If you metagame is cluttered with Primevil valakut and jace, just play Elf-monument. Heck even the $10 poison deck beats both
I find it quite ironic that just last week I was asking you about the power of the bow and now get faced with 3bowmen2bow.dec
First let's get out of the group stages. :D
Yeah I agree with Flippers_Giraffe here that Heath would be an interesting interview.
Awesome! AJ is a spurs fan! What a game on wednesday huh, great to see we're going somewhere after so many false dawns. Been a great fan of Freed from the Real since it began, keep up the good work!
I think an interview with Heath would be very interesting, if it wasn't for him there would be no PureMTGO and half of the PRE's would no longer have sponsors.
I've actually been playing Tribal Casual against AJ for quite some time before I found PureMTGO. He's always a fun and gracious opponent. Nice to hear more of his views (especially since its been forever since he's written an article it seems).
Thanks for the comments guys :)
@Westane: Seeya there I hope. @Hammy lol I should hope so, and I bet he's learned a thing or two from you. @Flippers me too, any suggestions?