Perhaps my wording is a bit harsh, but I do believe there are some that slip through. I've seen articles go up with a deck list and two paragraphs or a draft with a couple sentences of pick explanation and barely a recap of how play went. Sure I'm making a generalization and by far I'm not saying these are the only people to read, I'm simply suggesting that newer players take each article with a grain of salt and don't assume every article will be gold or fantastic information
What you have to keep in mind here is that in the case of Time Reversal I was using a bot that was offering me the highest buy for it which was 1 ticket and change and I have to use that credit on that particular bot so I make due with what I can
It's funny because most of these cards are simply very strong cards, which is exactly why they get "hated". I agree with Paul's comment that hand denial (discard) is very often hated too, in fact most of these can be described as denial so the whole mentality can be described as "people like to keep their own stuff". I've pretty much stopped playing casual EDH now because the "social contract" seems to just mean "play big spells, but not ones that are too strong".
Interesting read, as I'm trying to build a WW Quest deck myself with drafts and trades but I would have appreciated if you mentioned also the average price of each decklist as you did for the first one. Nonetheless, thanks for your time and effort.
I really love this series and will look forward to it as I'm more or less on the same budget (even though I have some credits here and there and still some prize). Good job.
Just one thing: I know you already wrote "I'm sure I'm going to get a few irritated comments on that statement, but unfortunately it is true" regarding articles and you are obviously expressing your opinion on the matter, I'd still like to merely point out that our articles have to be approved before they are published.
People read our articles beforehand (or at least they skim through them) and I had a taste of it when they rejected my first article attempt, so taking advantage of the system seems a bit out of question to me.
This conversation ensued on MTGS a few weeks ago and I'll make the same point I made there, here. In my mind, MTGO Traders much less about the prices, though they are fair, but more about the "experience". I know MTGOTradersBots will have what I need in stock, and I know if they don't, or if I need to for any other reason, there's an easily reachable face behind the bots. It's less about saving a few cents here and there, and more about know I'm dealing with real people, who stand behind their service and have a public face.
I know these articles are through mtgotraders.com and so it's not good to mention other bots (so I won't by name), but there are a few bots that sell really decent commons (like the ones you picked up for the Time Reversal, if not better ones) for a penny each. Heck, I picked up Preordains for 1 cent when they were selling at big bots for 40 cents. The same is true with UCs, although the price is usually around 5 cents and sometimes you can find some for as low as 2.5 cents each. Savings like that can add up quickly when you're working on a budget.
More than any of these annoying cards, I find people's whining over the cards to be more annoying. Suck it up folks. If someone plays something you don't like, remember that there are people who don't like what you're playing. If we are going to place respect as an adult value we share, that includes honoring other people's choices in their pursuit of happiness. Do you have to ascribe to that view? No. You can remember who they are and not play with them again. The self righteous whining when, in fact, all people break someone else's subjective boundaries of annoyance, spoils the game more than any given card. Can I get an amen? ;)
I love most of these things above. Theft, yeah, chaos, hell yeah, counters, ooooooooh yeah. The only one I don't really like is mass LD just because the games become tediously and needlessly long.
On the subject of land destruction, I think cards like Ruination, Blood Moon, Magus and Back to Basics are pretty okay. They're a good way of keeping people honest with their mana and are good for those annoying lands as well.
I'm one of the guys who's been chattering on the PDCMagic boards about infect. We came up with lists very similar to these and are still tweaking them.
I think what Scars of Mirrodin has given us is just right. The mechanic is just beautifully designed and creates a whole new playing environment. But right now, I don't think there are enough infect creatures to do the trick. Chances are the remaining two sets in the block will give us the tools we're missing. I feel that right now Infect is just as susceptible to tokens sweepers and removal heavy control decks, and these can tailor themselves to beat the very linear infect strategy quite easily.
I rather liked how this article simply threw around a plethora of deck ideas with this new mechanic without refinement or testing. That's how deckbuilding happens; testing results in deck tweaking. Any of the six lists you came up with a re good starting points and the description of the deckbuilding thought process was central here. Keep up the good work and happy poisoning :-)
I love it when someone casts bribery on my budget total jank deck. They were expecting Darksteel Collossus or something, and instead blew 5 mana on a Krosan Tusker.
I've recently started playing some EDH, but haven't got to the stage where I've found any of these particularly annoying except ^&*%£"$% Time Stretch. That card is every bit as un-fun in EDH as it is in every other 40-life and/or multiplayer format.
I can imagine that if anybody deemed Sedris annoying enough to tuck, that would probably be fairly irritating too, but as you might imagine, tucking him just results in a grixis deck with lots of CITP effects, which isn't the worst thing in the world.
Rules question aside: Say my general gets "tucked", and then via some shuffle effect or tutoring, I end up drawing him again. I then cast him from my hand, and then he gets killed. Will he be put into the commander zone, or has the game forgotten that he's my commander (since I drew him from my deck). Also, when I cast him from my hand, does he cost his CMC, or does it have some number added on, relating to the number of times he has dies?
Interesting article as per usual. I am certain there are many more objectionable cards than you listed and I am a little surprised you missed hand denial which is has a huge assortment of picks and mass removal (as opposed to mass ld.) I have heard outcries over Myojin of Night's Breath and Wrath of God both. Recurring Avalanche Riders/Acidic Slime etc probably gets old pretty quickly. Imho Maga, traitor to humans is a very nasty general to play considering how easy it is to ramp in black with cabal coffers and other mana producers. Perhaps not quite in line with Azusa but still extremely unfriendly.
Also I will note something. There are MANY online players who completely ignore any social contract beyond the minimal hello and good luck macro. There are people who consider "gents rules" to be farcical and even ridicule worthy. There are those spikes who play anything they feel like as if it were the pro tour. In fact we played vs a person I won't mention the other day who you were holding in check until you had to leave and then she took out the rest of us with her permission style hardcore unfriendly deck. That was OK but I note this person you mentioned as having a freak out from being in a similar situation the day before.
All this to point out that commander is essentially a wild west format where anything can happen and it pays to know your opponents and develop a comradery with folks of a like mind. Develop a social contract within the group of players you have cultivated but be aware that online anything can happen from someone jumping in your queue to joining a game where there is no social contract and only the most heinous combos are expected and delivered.
I've seen Sorin played a lot, but I've never seen him last long enough to use his ultimate. So technically he can steal a turn, but practically speaking it never (read: I'm sure it has happened, and I'm sure people will tell me how they use it all the time to wreck players now, but like I said, I've never seen it) happens.
It amuses me that you say Mindslaver is the only way to steal someone's turn, and then point out SorinMarkov for a different offence in the next but one section.
I think the same effect could be achieved simply by making large sets have 12 mythics, and small sets have 8 mythics. A 20% reduction in the number of mythics per set makes them easier to collect without impacting their specialness. And less "random" mythics that just exist to feel mythic and fill out the mythic set (This set's most unnecessary mythic - Liege of the Tangle).
I think it makes perfect sense, release them right before the next set comes out, as a one time printing, for both online and physical. IMO, I dont think it would affect the redemption or the sale of physical much, maybe when they are first introduced, but not overall. I think the one major affect would be on the cost of mythics.
this somewhat reminds me of another online CCG I used to play way back when it was about the only one ... a guy had a character that had a full play-set character (maybe 800 or 900 cards) and another "free" character ... basically, he had earned/bought everything there was to have, gotten a little bored, started over with the intention of spending no money on that character ... he ended up using the free character more often as it made the game back into a game or a hobby for him ... good luck - I've been playing MTGO for about a year after not playing any Magic at all for probably 5 or 6 years ... I'm enjoying the game again having only spent around $100 new dollars and very little of that since early summer ... but I have mostly uc/c in my collection, few cards from Rise or Scars ... work and family has been busy enough lately I only play a couple games per month right now ... it's been a little nice to break the addiction again - now I question why I spent $100 ... and um yeah, the free commons bots are awesome ... only time I was on in October was to be sure to get my free 64 commons (been busy like I said) - this lets me continue to build and refine a variety of pauper decks that may not win tournaments but let me enjoy occasionally playing this game - Magic is more like what it was when I first started playing at around 15 years old - a game that I find enjoyable ... you have to get used to the idea that you won't be super competitive and lose a lot of "casual" games against net decks - but I don't mind as I still usually learn something from that .... sorry if I'm rambling, been up early with a baby :)
Grappling there are Nice regulars like yourself and I agree the nice ones do not heckle unfairly but there are elements that just come there to make fun and screw around. :) Not complaining. It makes it a fun room to be in, provided you aren't serious about selling anything.
I don't think selling complete sets makes sense, it would entirely invalidate redemption and have effects on the sale of physical cards. I'd just like to see mythics go from 1 in 8 packs to 1 in 5 packs.
I figured I better comment on the auction room ridiculing. Bad offers/constant spamming in there will get ridiculed, but as long as your buy offer is above what the big bots buy for or your sell is above what the big bots sell for, you will not be ridiculed very often.
Perhaps my wording is a bit harsh, but I do believe there are some that slip through. I've seen articles go up with a deck list and two paragraphs or a draft with a couple sentences of pick explanation and barely a recap of how play went. Sure I'm making a generalization and by far I'm not saying these are the only people to read, I'm simply suggesting that newer players take each article with a grain of salt and don't assume every article will be gold or fantastic information
What you have to keep in mind here is that in the case of Time Reversal I was using a bot that was offering me the highest buy for it which was 1 ticket and change and I have to use that credit on that particular bot so I make due with what I can
It's funny because most of these cards are simply very strong cards, which is exactly why they get "hated". I agree with Paul's comment that hand denial (discard) is very often hated too, in fact most of these can be described as denial so the whole mentality can be described as "people like to keep their own stuff". I've pretty much stopped playing casual EDH now because the "social contract" seems to just mean "play big spells, but not ones that are too strong".
Interesting read, as I'm trying to build a WW Quest deck myself with drafts and trades but I would have appreciated if you mentioned also the average price of each decklist as you did for the first one. Nonetheless, thanks for your time and effort.
I really love this series and will look forward to it as I'm more or less on the same budget (even though I have some credits here and there and still some prize). Good job.
Just one thing: I know you already wrote "I'm sure I'm going to get a few irritated comments on that statement, but unfortunately it is true" regarding articles and you are obviously expressing your opinion on the matter, I'd still like to merely point out that our articles have to be approved before they are published.
People read our articles beforehand (or at least they skim through them) and I had a taste of it when they rejected my first article attempt, so taking advantage of the system seems a bit out of question to me.
They pay, they choose; seems kinda fair to me.
This conversation ensued on MTGS a few weeks ago and I'll make the same point I made there, here. In my mind, MTGO Traders much less about the prices, though they are fair, but more about the "experience". I know MTGOTradersBots will have what I need in stock, and I know if they don't, or if I need to for any other reason, there's an easily reachable face behind the bots. It's less about saving a few cents here and there, and more about know I'm dealing with real people, who stand behind their service and have a public face.
I know these articles are through mtgotraders.com and so it's not good to mention other bots (so I won't by name), but there are a few bots that sell really decent commons (like the ones you picked up for the Time Reversal, if not better ones) for a penny each. Heck, I picked up Preordains for 1 cent when they were selling at big bots for 40 cents. The same is true with UCs, although the price is usually around 5 cents and sometimes you can find some for as low as 2.5 cents each. Savings like that can add up quickly when you're working on a budget.
More than any of these annoying cards, I find people's whining over the cards to be more annoying. Suck it up folks. If someone plays something you don't like, remember that there are people who don't like what you're playing. If we are going to place respect as an adult value we share, that includes honoring other people's choices in their pursuit of happiness. Do you have to ascribe to that view? No. You can remember who they are and not play with them again. The self righteous whining when, in fact, all people break someone else's subjective boundaries of annoyance, spoils the game more than any given card. Can I get an amen? ;)
I love most of these things above. Theft, yeah, chaos, hell yeah, counters, ooooooooh yeah. The only one I don't really like is mass LD just because the games become tediously and needlessly long.
On the subject of land destruction, I think cards like Ruination, Blood Moon, Magus and Back to Basics are pretty okay. They're a good way of keeping people honest with their mana and are good for those annoying lands as well.
I always receive negative comments for playing Null Rod and Leyline of the Void.
I'm one of the guys who's been chattering on the PDCMagic boards about infect. We came up with lists very similar to these and are still tweaking them.
I think what Scars of Mirrodin has given us is just right. The mechanic is just beautifully designed and creates a whole new playing environment. But right now, I don't think there are enough infect creatures to do the trick. Chances are the remaining two sets in the block will give us the tools we're missing. I feel that right now Infect is just as susceptible to tokens sweepers and removal heavy control decks, and these can tailor themselves to beat the very linear infect strategy quite easily.
I rather liked how this article simply threw around a plethora of deck ideas with this new mechanic without refinement or testing. That's how deckbuilding happens; testing results in deck tweaking. Any of the six lists you came up with a re good starting points and the description of the deckbuilding thought process was central here. Keep up the good work and happy poisoning :-)
Definitely they'd be classified under punishers. They punish you for playing your spells and lands. =)
I love it when someone casts bribery on my budget total jank deck. They were expecting Darksteel Collossus or something, and instead blew 5 mana on a Krosan Tusker.
I've recently started playing some EDH, but haven't got to the stage where I've found any of these particularly annoying except ^&*%£"$% Time Stretch. That card is every bit as un-fun in EDH as it is in every other 40-life and/or multiplayer format.
I can imagine that if anybody deemed Sedris annoying enough to tuck, that would probably be fairly irritating too, but as you might imagine, tucking him just results in a grixis deck with lots of CITP effects, which isn't the worst thing in the world.
Rules question aside: Say my general gets "tucked", and then via some shuffle effect or tutoring, I end up drawing him again. I then cast him from my hand, and then he gets killed. Will he be put into the commander zone, or has the game forgotten that he's my commander (since I drew him from my deck). Also, when I cast him from my hand, does he cost his CMC, or does it have some number added on, relating to the number of times he has dies?
Interesting article as per usual. I am certain there are many more objectionable cards than you listed and I am a little surprised you missed hand denial which is has a huge assortment of picks and mass removal (as opposed to mass ld.) I have heard outcries over Myojin of Night's Breath and Wrath of God both. Recurring Avalanche Riders/Acidic Slime etc probably gets old pretty quickly. Imho Maga, traitor to humans is a very nasty general to play considering how easy it is to ramp in black with cabal coffers and other mana producers. Perhaps not quite in line with Azusa but still extremely unfriendly.
Also I will note something. There are MANY online players who completely ignore any social contract beyond the minimal hello and good luck macro. There are people who consider "gents rules" to be farcical and even ridicule worthy. There are those spikes who play anything they feel like as if it were the pro tour. In fact we played vs a person I won't mention the other day who you were holding in check until you had to leave and then she took out the rest of us with her permission style hardcore unfriendly deck. That was OK but I note this person you mentioned as having a freak out from being in a similar situation the day before.
All this to point out that commander is essentially a wild west format where anything can happen and it pays to know your opponents and develop a comradery with folks of a like mind. Develop a social contract within the group of players you have cultivated but be aware that online anything can happen from someone jumping in your queue to joining a game where there is no social contract and only the most heinous combos are expected and delivered.
What category do cards like Polluted Bonds or Painful Quandary go under?
I have an EDH deck with essentially all these cards.
10 life Re-Set!
I've seen Sorin played a lot, but I've never seen him last long enough to use his ultimate. So technically he can steal a turn, but practically speaking it never (read: I'm sure it has happened, and I'm sure people will tell me how they use it all the time to wreck players now, but like I said, I've never seen it) happens.
It amuses me that you say Mindslaver is the only way to steal someone's turn, and then point out SorinMarkov for a different offence in the next but one section.
I think the same effect could be achieved simply by making large sets have 12 mythics, and small sets have 8 mythics. A 20% reduction in the number of mythics per set makes them easier to collect without impacting their specialness. And less "random" mythics that just exist to feel mythic and fill out the mythic set (This set's most unnecessary mythic - Liege of the Tangle).
I think it makes perfect sense, release them right before the next set comes out, as a one time printing, for both online and physical. IMO, I dont think it would affect the redemption or the sale of physical much, maybe when they are first introduced, but not overall. I think the one major affect would be on the cost of mythics.
this somewhat reminds me of another online CCG I used to play way back when it was about the only one ... a guy had a character that had a full play-set character (maybe 800 or 900 cards) and another "free" character ... basically, he had earned/bought everything there was to have, gotten a little bored, started over with the intention of spending no money on that character ... he ended up using the free character more often as it made the game back into a game or a hobby for him ... good luck - I've been playing MTGO for about a year after not playing any Magic at all for probably 5 or 6 years ... I'm enjoying the game again having only spent around $100 new dollars and very little of that since early summer ... but I have mostly uc/c in my collection, few cards from Rise or Scars ... work and family has been busy enough lately I only play a couple games per month right now ... it's been a little nice to break the addiction again - now I question why I spent $100 ... and um yeah, the free commons bots are awesome ... only time I was on in October was to be sure to get my free 64 commons (been busy like I said) - this lets me continue to build and refine a variety of pauper decks that may not win tournaments but let me enjoy occasionally playing this game - Magic is more like what it was when I first started playing at around 15 years old - a game that I find enjoyable ... you have to get used to the idea that you won't be super competitive and lose a lot of "casual" games against net decks - but I don't mind as I still usually learn something from that .... sorry if I'm rambling, been up early with a baby :)
Grappling there are Nice regulars like yourself and I agree the nice ones do not heckle unfairly but there are elements that just come there to make fun and screw around. :) Not complaining. It makes it a fun room to be in, provided you aren't serious about selling anything.
I don't think selling complete sets makes sense, it would entirely invalidate redemption and have effects on the sale of physical cards. I'd just like to see mythics go from 1 in 8 packs to 1 in 5 packs.
I figured I better comment on the auction room ridiculing. Bad offers/constant spamming in there will get ridiculed, but as long as your buy offer is above what the big bots buy for or your sell is above what the big bots sell for, you will not be ridiculed very often.